It Was All About The Serve

Its impossable to win a slam on hardcourt without a good serve thats working well. Last nights US Open final was no exception. Nadals serve was not working well. Nadal was able to break Djokovic but struggled when he was serving. Nadal broke Djokovic 6 times in the match - the same number of breaks as he achieved in last years winning final with Djokovic. Djokovic managed to break Nadal 11 times! (compared to 3 times last year).

Despite getting early breaks in the first two sets Nadal was unable to hold onto them and the third set felt like it had more breaks than holds. More often than not a break on a hardcourt is decisive but not in this match. So many of Nadals service games were a struggle. Even his first serve gave him little advantage in the point. Nadal only won 52% of his first serve points in the match. His second serve was a liability. He only won 42%. Ironically he won 44% when Djokovic was using his second serve. It would have been better to let Djokovic serve a second serve than attempt to control the point with his own second serve!

Because Nadals serve was so ineffective he got few free points and had to work so hard physically for every point. For example the brutal 17 minute 3rd game of the second set. IMO Nadal was sruggling more physically in the fourth set than Djokovic. No wonder!

Match stats 2011 final

http://www.usopen.org/en_US/scores/stats/day21/1701ms.html

Match stats 2010 final

http://2010.usopen.org/en_US/scores/stats/day21/1701ms.html

This is what Nadal had to say about his serve after the match.

"my serve worked bad tonight. That's the true. If I have to say two things about I'm not happy tonight, it's my serve for sure the first one."

http://www.usopen.org/en_US/news/interviews/2011-09-12/201109131315878149368.html

Couldn't agree more. Nadal needs to spend time practicing his serve. He doesn't need to do anything drastic - just get back to last years level.

After last nights amazing match its a little selfish to want more but can't wait for Nadal and Djokovics next encounter. Especially if Nadal spends some time tuning his serve...

Nadal is at the peak of his career. He has practiced billions of hours serving and was never a good server bar one USO which he could not even explain.

With an arm like that he shoudl be able to hammer the ball consistently but he hasn;t got the precision. None of his shots have precision and on the serve it shows more!!!

You need talent to send bombs precisely. All talented players have a good serve.....not all good servers have talent though. It's like a golf's swing I guess.

I suspect he also knew that the effort and risk of serving bigger and bigger may not have been worth it given that Djokovic returns everything.

Except for the tail end of the 3rd set it was like watching him 6 years ago against the likes of Youzhny.

Tenez

Nadals serve last night was poor by his own standards. He will never have a serve like Federer never serve "bombs" but he is more than likely to be able to retain a previous level. I also disagree about him not having "precision" on his serve. When its working well its precision, placement and spin that makes it good because it obviously isn't speed

Hawkeye we have to consider that we are talking about two great returners who don't happen to be overwhelming on serve. I think Novak's serve is better, but Novak is not a great or dominant server he has become a good server. Nadal is hampered by the fact that he is serving with his off hand, being a natural righty the one drawback of his lefty switch is that he probably will never be able to hit monster serves with consistency. Although his serve is much better than it was when first broke onto the tour.

hawkeye wrote:Tenez

Nadals serve last night was poor by his own standards. He will never have a serve like Federer never serve "bombs" but he is more than likely to be able to retain a previous level. I also disagree about him not having "precision" on his serve. When its working well its precision, placement and spin that makes it good because it obviously isn't speed

A better serve would not have saved him yesterday. The fact is that he was a spent force by the end of the 3rd set. Djoko too but Djoko's skills simply made the difference. As I have said a million times, Nadal is extremely average without being 100%. Djoko can still worry a few player while injured.

Nadal lost to Dodig and nearly to Verdasco when he is not at 120% like he has been in that USO.

It wasnt ALL about the serve although it was poor by Nadal's standards (vs 2010).

What killed Nadal was the number of midcourt balls he hits because he's stood too far behind the baseline. The times he came to the baseline and was more aggressivre (late 3rd set) made a huge difference. This is what Nadal has to do in future...as I said on another thread, he may as well hit it long being aggressive that giving Nole midcourt balls to hoover up which make Nadal chase pointless balls into the corners which wastes untold amounts of energy. Its amazing Nadal lasted as long as he did last night with the explosive movements he had to make all match long....a change of approach needed Mr Nadal, and he has the ability to do it...but he needs to mentally commit to the change. Its risky overriding a long term approach but he has to make that change or risk never beating Djokovic again with playing "Midcourtsville" tennis.

Agree with that Lydian. Nadal can play differently but finds it hard to change the formula that got him to number #1 and 10 grandslams in the middle of his career. Novak had to change his game to get the upper hand on Nadal and Fed. Nadal has improved a lot of areas of his game since 05, but has yet to change his strategic outlook against Djoko.

So in short you woudl like Nadal to take the ball earlier and keep the UEs down? What does that require? I wonder?

Talent maybe?

Something that struck me yesterday is the number of returns Djoko sent in Nadal's feet and we saw time and time again Nadal not having the dexterity to handle those shots whereas Federer and Djoko are excellent at half volleys and able to yet find length despite the shortest preparation. But again, this requires timing skills....not big arms!

Surely it's the nature of his forehand with extreme grip that makes those sorts of shots harder.

socal1976 wrote:Hawkeye we have to consider that we are talking about two great returners who don't happen to be overwhelming on serve. I think Novak's serve is better, but Novak is not a great or dominant server he has become a good server. Nadal is hampered by the fact that he is serving with his off hand, being a natural righty the one drawback of his lefty switch is that he probably will never be able to hit monster serves with consistency. Although his serve is much better than it was when first broke onto the tour.

Novaks serve was definately better last night than Nadals and so was his return. Some of his returns were amazing. But this was helped by Nadals serve being relatively poor. As I said Nadals second serve was so poor he actually did better when returning Novaks second serve. But his serve isn't always that bad. IMO serving with his "off" hand isn't a liability. He will never be able to serve "bombs" but they arn't the only sort of serve that is difficult to recieve. Nadals serve is different - quirky spin maybe as a result of him using his off hand. Its that difference that makes it difficult to return. Lots of players have more difficulty returning Nadals serve than they do returning the serve "bombs" of Roddick. In fact a good returner can use the speed of a fast serve to their own advantage.

Nadal was hampered last night by his serve but he isn't always hampered by it...

Tenez, I know you think the guy has no talent but I completely disagree. He took the game to Nole in the 3rd but by then had ran out of gas due to the approach earlier in the match. I think he actually found the key there in that match and he alluded to it in the presser - its given him plenty to think about. Yes he can play early balls, and he does actually play some of those half-volleys at the baseline well (he's a good volleyer dont forget so has good hands). But he's got stuck into a pattern of play...the question is whether he can get out if it. Nadal is never going to have the type of game Federer plays - but he doesnt need to. He just needs to learn to execute a much more aggressive game against guys like Djokovic - winning the 3rd set shows he CAN do it.

To be fair Lydian, Nadal did play better in the third set, but I think it was more a case of Novak tiring. Novak's 1st serve percentage really started to drop in the second half of that set; his shots lost some of their penetration and he started losing the longer rallies. When Novak is playing at his best all Nadal can do is defend and hope to draw the error. This is the pattern we've seen all year; yesterday was no different.

I think they were both tired at the end of the 3rd, it was a particularly brutal match played in high humidity too. Nadal's serve was terrible too (all match). But there is no doubt the more aggressive game had more success - the point is he needs to START like that, not change to it when Plan A isnt going his way (which it hasnt all 2011). So I agree its a pattern we've seen all year...Nadal has to work on changing the pattern...if he can. I'm saying he has the potential to make changes...but whether he can execute them across a whole match remains to be seen. In fairness its a massive challenge for Nadal, the biggest challenge of his career no doubt. We'll see how he fares with this challenge...maybe it will provide him with renewed motivation to succeed, maybe it will mentally break him. Either way, interesting times ahead...and fair play to Djokovic for moving the game on.

Yes, but the problem for Nadal is that his serve just doesn't trouble Novak at all. In this particular matchup that seems to decide so many big tournaments, Hawkeye, Novak seems to almost be able to break him at will. Novak has a good serve not a great serve, but he has the ability to get more free points than Nadal. One thing Nadal's lefty spin does give him is a pretty effective second serve which serves him well again against the rest of the tour. But against Novak who makes a living off abusing second serves his best serving strength isn't very effective. Now add to the fact that his first serve isn't dominating and his second serve doesn't trouble Novak he is in crisis mode on serve. At least other guys that come up with bombs on the first serve can consistently win some free points on first serve and hope to serve at a high percentage. Currently, in their matchup Nadal can't rely on either his first or second serve as well as he can against 99 percent of the tour.

For someone who's meant to be as tactically astute as Nadal, it doesn't sound too smart chasing down random balls that amount to nothing. You could also argue by the same token that Murray has the beating of Nadal; he just needs to do what he did in the 3rd set.

break_in_the_fifth wrote:... he just needs to do what he did in the 3rd set.

It would have been hard for Nadal to play three sets with the intensity of the third set. When you consider how hard it was to win points (even with a couple of games when Novak took his foot off the pedal) with all those long and exhausting rallies, it would have been impossible for Nadal to play three sets like that.

I was responding to lydians point that the 3rd set of the final proved Nadal could beat Djokovic. I was saying that by the same token you could say the 3rd set of the Nadal Murray match proves that Murray can beat Nadal.

I noticed that Djokovic had 26 break points last night, the exact number that Nadal had in last year's final. Djokovic's ability to break Nadal so readily has a big effect mentally on Nadal, and is a huge momentum stopper. Each time Nadal broke Djokovic he seemed to follow up by losing his own serve, a real kick in the teeth.

Lydian, I agree re midcourt balls. I noticed that when stretching on the forehand side that Nadal often left it short. To strain and attempt the top spin whip is a huge ask, contrast with Djokovic who mostly hits flat when pulled out wide. Have to say, found his elasticity extraordinary last night.

Tenez - I thought you rated Nalbandian as a talent? His serve debunks your talent = good serve myth.

Leff wrote:

break_in_the_fifth wrote:... he just needs to do what he did in the 3rd set.

It would have been hard for Nadal to play three sets with the intensity of the third set. When you consider how hard it was to win points (even with a couple of games when Novak took his foot off the pedal) with all those long and exhausting rallies, it would have been impossible for Nadal to play three sets like that.

Exactly. It was an uphill struggle for Nadal. He wasn't getting any easy points. But I think this is because of his serve. Djokovic could get into nearly all his service games. Often with a great return that put him in charge of the rally and not the server. Nadals serve is not usually so bad that he wins more points on his opponants second serve than he does on his own! (even if his opponant is Djokovic). I know he can serve better than that because I've seen him do it. I'm sure he will be able to do so again. With a few more shorter points hopefully their next match will be less physical but still high quality.

Nadals serve is extremely intimidating and at same time confusing to his opponent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dxPO_Z57xg

Reverse psychology works for him

Positively 4th Street wrote:Tenez - I thought you rated Nalbandian as a talent? His serve debunks your talent = good serve myth.

Good point. And there is a worse case than him actually: Coria. Immense talent too with an abysmal serve. But the problem with those 2 is very much to do with the mind, more than their serving skills. They can serve very well but were extremely anxious players and developed glitches serving like great golfers can as well. Also like Nadal they grew up on clay so serving may not have been as important. But yeah, I agree that there can be exceptions there as well.

All in all, McEnroe, Edberg, Becker, Pete, Federer were big talents, all with a bog serve.

Don't forget Agassi tenez, he was a great ball striker who lacked a big serve. You also rate Davy highly and Davy is not a great server either. That is what I mean you rate talent based on preferences that you have for a style of play, talent comes in many forms on a tennis court and in life. And if talent is honed by hardwork it isn't worth much.

socal1976 wrote:Don't forget Agassi tenez, he was a great ball striker who lacked a big serve. You also rate Davy highly and Davy is not a great server either. That is what I mean you rate talent based on preferences that you have for a style of play, talent comes in many forms on a tennis court and in life. And if talent is honed by hardwork it isn't worth much.

pound for pound, Davy and Agassi were better servers than Nadal. They might not have the pace but they have well placed and pacy serves. Nadal has little precision and aces are rare cause they are piece of luck.

You try to blur the meaning of talent cause you have no clue of what it is. No one is discussing the benefit of hard work v talent.