ITV At It Again

First topic message reminder :

No mention or sympathy to Flannery and his injury just Sheridan and England

Portnoy wrote:I'm beginning to feel sorry for the Celts having their rugby spoon-fed on terrestrial TV because they don't have a viable product for the commercial broadcasters.

Do they feel sorry for us because we do have one?

I couldn't give to flying big ones about the news coverage regarding the WC as long as they show the games.

It did pee me off that they excluded Scotland from the warm up programme they had before it started though but covered every other country.

Anyway, my tuppence worth here is the the argument of England having a population of 50 million to the Celts 10.

Answer me this....

How many of that 50 million:

Are English?
How many of these English are rugby fans?
How many English rugby fans have telly's?
How many English fans with telly's watch the games?

Answer?


4,375 against the Celt's 10 million.

In theory, they shouldn't even show their matches!

And the Celtic complaints about English media dominance aren't boring Rev?

I didn't raise the topic.

No?

[I suspect no answer]

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:I couldn't give to flying big ones about the news coverage regarding the WC as long as they show the games.

It did pee me off that they excluded Scotland from the warm up programme they had before it started though but covered every other country.

Anyway, my tuppence worth here is the the argument of England having a population of 50 million to the Celts 10.

Answer me this....

How many of that 50 million:

Are English?
How many of these English are rugby fans?
How many English rugby fans have telly's?
How many English fans with telly's watch the games?

Answer?


4,375 against the Celt's 10 million.

In theory, they shouldn't even show their matches!

Yeah, rugby's massive in Glasgow, can't move for it...

Rugby is Glasgow's sleeping giant screaming addabs.

Giant I tell you.

From what I understand the Warriors could buy out Rangers for about a tenner

It's worth remembering that with the truly small minded there is nothing whatever that can be done to change their opinions. To change an opinion is seen as a sign of weakness. That's how small their minds are.

If you are polite you are patronising, if you do anything else at all you are rude. It makes it possible for them to be right about something for once, if only in their own tiny minds.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:I couldn't give to flying big ones about the news coverage regarding the WC as long as they show the games.

It did pee me off that they excluded Scotland from the warm up programme they had before it started though but covered every other country.

Anyway, my tuppence worth here is the the argument of England having a population of 50 million to the Celts 10.

Answer me this....

How many of that 50 million:

Are English?
How many of these English are rugby fans?
How many English rugby fans have telly's?
How many English fans with telly's watch the games?

Answer?


4,375 against the Celt's 10 million.

In theory, they shouldn't even show their matches!

Mate, we've ALL got brand new tellys, didn't you see the 4 nights of late shopping we had down here in August? Got Harry brandfire set of Nike's too, want to buy any watches?

bedfordwelsh wrote:No mention or sympathy to Flannery and his injury just Sheridan and England

The double-edged sword of media coverage is pretty lethal.

The same demand for the main market on one edge is likely to expose the throats of their representatives on the other. Did any Celt player go out for a beer (or worse) after their first match? Don't know - not in the papers...

They probably had a quiet drink in the team hotel.

Cymroglan wrote:They probably had a quiet drink in the team hotel.

Probably. (no golf carts available

Portnoy wrote:

Cymroglan wrote:They probably had a quiet drink in the team hotel.

Probably. (no golf carts available

NZ has more golf courses per head of population than any other country, shouldn't be too hard to find a golf buggy

If anyone thinks ITV's coverage is bad, they should be forced to listen to a game broadcast by TalkSport, the official radio station of the WC.

I've never heard so much drivel from so many people who know absolutely nothing about the game, I had to turn the commentary down for Scotland v Georgia and make pictures up in my head.

nottins wrote: You do know that ITV is a commercial channel ? You do know about marketing and appealing to the mass market ? Thought not.

And you do know morals and a sense of fair play don't you? Thought not. Being in the privileged majority I wouldn't expect you to put yourself in anybody else's shoes.

Even commercially it's flawed to condone ITV's blatant failure to even acknowledge the existence of the other home nations on a day when one of them isn't playing, when they find the time to mention England perhaps fifty times when they aren't doing half an hour's analysis on them (that's on days when England aren't playing either). 10 million might be smaller than 50 million but it's still there. As a British and not an English channel they should at least make a minimum effort to appeal to all types of viewers, not just 1 in 4.

Knowsit17 wrote:

nottins wrote: You do know that ITV is a commercial channel ? You do know about marketing and appealing to the mass market ? Thought not.

And you do know morals and a sense of fair play don't you? Thought not. Being in the privileged majority I wouldn't expect you to put yourself in anybody else's shoes.

Even commercially it's flawed to condone ITV's blatant failure to even acknowledge the existence of the other home nations on a day when one of them isn't playing, when they find the time to mention England perhaps fifty times when they aren't doing half an hour's analysis on them (that's on days when England aren't playing either). 10 million might be smaller than 50 million but it's still there. As a British and not an English channel they should at least make a minimum effort to appeal to all types of viewers, not just 1 in 4.

Who are you calling privileged? The English don't have a regional assembly or parliament, get to have parliamentary bills affecting just the English, voted on by Welsh and Scottish MPs, subsidise said assemblies/parliaments, are the only net contributors to the cost of running the UK as a whole and then get to listen to whiners calling them "arrogant", "loathed by the entire world" just because a commercial TV station broadcasts something which a minority of people has a self-obsessed issue with? You call that a "privileged majority"?

For the last fecking TIME - ITV is NOT a "BRITISH" TV channel, it's a privately owned TV channel that just happens to broadcast to mainly British homes, and relies almost entirely on revenue derived from third-party commercial advertising geared towards it's target audience; the vast majority of which will be ENGLISH!!!

Knowsit? Knows nowt more like.

I thought we were talking about rugby coverage, not regional and national government and bills. Getting the gist?

Is it listed anywhere within the principles of ITV that their general aims tend to concern the English over the Scottish, Irish and Welsh? Not that I know of.

Do they not advertise themselves as a British television channel regardless of what private industry owns them? If not then why are they aired not only in England but in Scotland, NI and Wales?

Channels like S4C and RTE make no secret as to where their loyalties lie which is why you can have no complaint against them in this department. ITV portray themselves as a UK station, not an England station and unless this stops or they become more objective and true to their own claims, they are hypocrites and false advertisers. Simple as.

My complaint with ITV isn't their English bias.

It's their bias towards being rubbish that bothers me. The pitiful pandering to the egos of the English is just a symptom of their facile and one dimensional coverage.

TheGreyGhost wrote:My complaint with ITV isn't their English bias.

It's their bias towards being rubbish that bothers me. The pitiful pandering to the egos of the English is just a symptom of their facile and one dimensional coverage.

Agree absolutely. It would be bareable if they were English-centric, but if they were, say, actually analysing the game in high quality detail. However, they're picking up on things like a bunjee jump and why the ball might be to blame for Wilkinson's missed kicks.

The commentary really is dire. It's a breath of fresh air when they get back to the studio and Fitzpatrick, Lynagh and Pienaar can breathe a bit of class and, fundamentally, rugby knowledge back into the broadcast.

Knowsit17 wrote:I thought we were talking about rugby coverage, not regional and national government and bills. Getting the gist?

Gist is not important in TV land, viewing figures are. The principle argument here is that ITV do not give fair coverage to the other "home nations" and have an unhealthy bias towards English rugby coverage. My point about regional and national government was in response to your accusation of a "privileged majority", I could take it another step further and claim that the question of Scottish and Welsh independence could be answered overnight if only someone had the foresight of asking the English what they thought... but I wont.

Is it listed anywhere within the principles of ITV that their general aims tend to concern the English over the Scottish, Irish and Welsh? Not that I know of.

I'm not aware of ANY "principles of ITV" much less a particular "listing" - I think you just made that bit up. Furthermore they wouldn't profess to having any "general aims", rather they would have quite "specific" aims and those would be "specifically" aimed at their target audience, I doubt they would get their viewing figures wrong and inadvertantly broadcast to an irrelevant audience, that would be stupid and incomprehensible for such a large and successful organisation. Get the difference between "general" and "specific"?

Do they not advertise themselves as a British television channel regardless of what private industry owns them? If not then why are they aired not only in England but in Scotland, NI and Wales?

No, they do not advertise themselves as a British television channel, where would they advertise that? On another TV channel? Or perhaps lose revenue from third-party commercial advertisers by taking up advertising slots on their own station preaching to people that are, by definition, already watching it?

You clearly don't get the idea of advertising and are therefore a marketing executives dream candidate, do you perhaps have a cupboard at your mom's house full of Ronson "fuzz-aways", Betaware "TV trays" and Kleeneze "big-slippers"?

Channels like S4C and RTE make no secret as to where their loyalties lie which is why you can have no complaint against them in this department. ITV portray themselves as a UK station, not an England station and unless this stops or they become more objective and true to their own claims, they are hypocrites and false advertisers. Simple as

I have no complaint against S4C and/or RTE, why would I? If I can follow your rationale, you're stating that "they" have overt loyalty to Wales and Ireland respectively, and if that is the case they are immune from my criticism (if I could be a£5ed to have any) by virtue of the fact that they aren't broadcasting to me? Cool . By the same rationale ITV are a publically-owned broadcaster with no overt stated loyalty to anyone bar their own shareholders, and therefore merely broadcast TV programmes (to the best of their abilities) to their chosen audience with the sole objective of maximising advertising revenues by appealing (via their target audience figures) to third-party commercial organisations which desire the opportunity to communicate in 30 second slots with said audience.?.

In which case YOU have no argument as YOU are clearly not part of ITV's target audience.

You may either shut the feck up or turn the feck off, your choice, but in either eventuality you shouldn't expect either me or ITV to care less. OK?

TheGreyGhost wrote:My complaint with ITV isn't their English bias.

It's their bias towards being rubbish that bothers me. The pitiful pandering to the egos of the English is just a symptom of their facile and one dimensional coverage.

I totally agree. If ones monotonous prolixity were so preternaturally infused with such feculent matter, one would run the risk of being labelled a dullard, and one could hardly expect to be taken seriously thereafter...

I suppose the only natural course of action should be to register a complaint with the relevant authorities, however, that may involve the risk of being considered an over-sensitive bed-wetter from certain quarters.

I guess it depends on whether you would consider you have anything to lose?

I say carpe diem TGG.

It would seem either you're avoiding my points or not understanding them. The gist was that you were off topic. I stated that English viewers were privileged as far as ITV goes, which in all fairness they are, and you responded with a number of non-rugby related issues. Getting the gist now?

By the rest I meant do ITV market/portray themselves as a strictly England-oriented channel? Well do they? If they did it would correspond with their one-sided coverage which would at least make sense but the question is do they?

I wasn't suggesting that you in particular have anything to say against S4C or RTE on this matter (although I've come across some who have), I was simply comparing. Viewers would not be able to mistake one of the above channels as broadcasting a particular POV, while I've seen nothing to indicate that the same can be said about ITV. That is why I referred to it as deceptive false advertising, seeing as officially it's broadcasted throughout the UK, yet Welsh, Scottish and Irish people can switch onto it and be subjected to an emission focusing almost exclusively on England. Do you think that's fair.

To be honest I've realized over the course of this thrilling discussion that it's not even about bias, more about disrespect for the other home nations by more often than not seeming to momentarily forget their existence. As I've said several times, if a channel airing all across the UK is going to be so one-eyed in their commentary and analysis, they should at least inform us of this in advance, otherwise it's plain and simple dishonesty.

I don't see what everyone's getting so worked up about. Commercial company in profit maximisation shock horror.

Wow, there are some people with a deep love of their sense of victimisation on here.

How many of you have actually watched every minute of all of ITV's coverage? Can you claim with absolute certainty that they're not providing coverage proportional to their viewers (particularly if you're not living in your national ITV region)?

They know that the Welsh have SC4, the Irish have RTE, that English viewers make up the bulk of their audience and are without an alternative viewing option.

Watching the Russia v USA game today they spent 10 mins discussing Wales before the game, 10 mins on England later on and then 10 mins on Ireland at the end, along with 5 mins of highlights from their match against Aus in the '91 WC.

I take it back, I'm really enjoying some of the in depth background ITV are revealing in the build up to this mornings England v Japan game.

Oh wait...

Always a good thing to be reminded that no country has a monopoly of vice or virtue.

New Zealand produces year in year, out the finest team in World Rugby with players like Muliaina, Carter, and the genius of McCaw (the cunning bastid!); yet they can also produce incidents like the crippling of BOD by Mealamu and Umaga.

New Zealand produces great supporters whose comments and attitude are much appreciated; and the greyghost.

TheGreyGhost wrote:My complaint with ITV isn't their English bias.

It's their bias towards being rubbish that bothers me. The pitiful pandering to the egos of the English is just a symptom of their facile and one dimensional coverage.

Go back to the land of the long white cloud then...You'll get the ego pandering in spades...

I don't how many of you read the Sky Sports Ezine but they have followed ITVs example by giving England more attention than the other home nations

http://www.skysports.com/sportzine/latestissue

Scott Quinell gives a few paragraphs on Ireland and Wales while Stuart Barnes and Dean Ryan comment solely on England, Scotland don't even get a mention.

to be honest, when Stuart Barnes hint that the RWC would be better off without England sooner or later, it's difficult to call him "biaised" !

I'd be annoyed if I were Scottish, but I'm not, so I aint.

I'll think you'll find the Audience numbers don't stack up favourably but that doesn't stop the BBC from an overwhelming Welsh bias to all its rugby reporting (obsession with Henson, scrum V etc they only care about England when they're Poopie stirring).

There is also the small matter of the English RWC record.

The BBC are crap and impartial at pretty much everything, politics, Science, NonScience like AGW, Sport, Law and Order.

and the best bit is... we all pay for it (apart from those on benefits and OAPs

I mean bias in terms of the amount of coverage, the tournament as a whole should get more in depth coverage but England seem to be covered more by most outlets

Damage thats because the BBC have to be fair and balanced though they do fail to do that at times but we also contribute to ITV too as part of the license fee go to them

Did anyone watch Rugby Club on Sky last night? At the end the presenter gave an apology as there'd been compliants that they only wished England and Wales good luck for the world cup in the previous week's show. He then went on, tongue in cheek, to wish Japan and (I think) Namibia all the best for the world cup! Joker.

marty2086 wrote:I don't how many of you read the Sky Sports Ezine but they have followed ITVs example by giving England more attention than the other home nations

http://www.skysports.com/sportzine/latestissue

Scott Quinell gives a few paragraphs on Ireland and Wales while Stuart Barnes and Dean Ryan comment solely on England, Scotland don't even get a mention.

I think it's also a disgrace that there is a horrific football bias in that ezine, that regional football leagues aren't mentioned, that they haven't even bothered to talk about cricket, and that there is a sexual bias with the soccerettes but no equivalent for the female readership.

What's that you say? Most of the people who read the ezine are males principally interested in English premiership football? No excuse, completely disgusting! All publications everywhere must represent every aspect of everything and take no account of primary demand.

Griff wrote:Did anyone watch Rugby Club on Sky last night? At the end the presenter gave an apology as there'd been compliants that they only wished England and Wales good luck for the world cup in the previous week's show. He then went on, tongue in cheek, to wish Japan and (I think) Namibia all the best for the world cup! Joker.

Its not like it worked for Wales is it

niwatts wrote:I think it's also a disgrace that there is a horrific football bias in that ezine, that regional football leagues aren't mentioned, that they haven't even bothered to talk about cricket, and that there is a sexual bias with the soccerettes but no equivalent for the female readership.

What's that you say? Most of the people who read the ezine are males principally interested in English premiership football? No excuse, completely disgusting! All publications everywhere must represent every aspect of everything and take no account of primary demand.

When you have most media outlets around Britain predominantly covering only England it is a disgrace, the likes of BBC, ITV and Channel 4 are meant to cover and represent England Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland but how often do you hear them mentioned on the news unless its a serial killer or an atrocity, how much of a mention do they receive in the sports a passing one if that. The ezine is representitive of the attitude so called British broadcasters have to the whole of Britain

marty i think you missed the point (and the sarcasm)

the ezine is for Sky, Sky do what they like cos they're a private company, until other sports start having the same number of viewers that wendyball gets then programmes and coverage will be skewed accordingly. (impossible as there just aren't enough intelligent sports lovers in the world to watch, appreciate, play and love something more complex than 11- a side tiddlywinks).

As Rugby fans (and i'm a welsh one) i think we like watching all the games and are interested in the likes of NZ. I have to be honest there is a big mention of England during every broadcast and i really don't see the need. I would say the same if they kept on about Wales, but there again the england seem sem to be doing the right things (or wrong) to get talked about!!!

Yes, I see Tindall has been dropped after his indiscretions.

(from the starting team, rather than by his wife)

As i'm an England fan , i wasn't aware that they were any other teams of note in these isles, so i have to say to all those broadcasters that concentrate on England, Keep up the good work, i like it.

As for all these Celtic fans banging on about how neglected they feel, well go and get your own TV stations financed out of your empty pockets, or financed by the advertising revenue. If that were the case commercial TV would only be on in the Celtic fringe countires for about 35 minutes a day. We don't care about you, your team, or your pathetic envy of England who let me remind you have won World cups in Football, Rugby and Cricket. You lot haven't disturbed the Engravers and yet you want equal parity, come on get real!!!

Watched the NZ game today ( on a side note there is no better 12 in world rugby than Nonu on the form showed today) and I am getting irritated by the constant mention of England its not like we are even that good!

Linagh IMO is the best rugby pundit in the world, he is the only one that shows no bias between teams.

To be fair I have been watching Sky for years and no longer watch any build up for games as it is all crap, I feel for the other home nations watching the drivel, I don't even like it and I am English

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

english warrior wrote:As i'm an England fan , i wasn't aware that they were any other teams of note in these isles, so i have to say to all those broadcasters that concentrate on England, Keep up the good work, i like it.

As for all these Celtic fans banging on about how neglected they feel, well go and get your own TV stations financed out of your empty pockets, or financed by the advertising revenue. If that were the case commercial TV would only be on in the Celtic fringe countires for about 35 minutes a day. We don't care about you, your team, or your pathetic envy of England who let me remind you have won World cups in Football, Rugby and Cricket. You lot haven't disturbed the Engravers and yet you want equal parity, come on get real!!!

Strewth, who rattled his cage????

I can see it now...

"Well, it's 15 minutes to kick off in the rugby world cup final, you can feel the tension in that air and the fans of both teams are in good voice in the stands already for what promises to be a classic encounter between these two rivals. But now, we cross live to the departure lounge at Auckland airport, where the England team are getting ready to board their flight. Fitzy, what do you make of England's preparations for this flight?"

Agree that Lynagh (come on, spell his damn name correctly) is a fantastic pundit, as are Fitzpatrick and Pienaar. Dallaglio isn't bad, don't understand what Danny Care can add apart from 'the boys will be disappointed/pleased with that', and Gareth Thomas, for all his knoweldge and passion, does come across as a bit too angry for a TV pundit.

TheGreyGhost wrote:I can see it now...

"...what promises to be a classic encounter between these two rivals.

How can these two be described as rivals when Wales' biggest rival is apparently at the airport...?

I forgot Wales were at the world cup. That's what I get for just watching ITV's coverage...

TheGreyGhost wrote:I can see it now...

"Well, it's 15 minutes to kick off in the rugby world cup final, you can feel the tension in that air and the fans of both teams are in good voice in the stands already for what promises to be a classic encounter between these two rivals. But now, we cross live to the departure lounge at Auckland airport, where the England team are getting ready to board their flight. Fitzy, what do you make of England's preparations for this flight?"

nice one!

Inverdale : "That's a lovely angle of Jonny Wilkinson, as he carefully checks his passport is in position. I've been watching him for 20 minutes prior to going through security, and he didn't lose his passport once."

It was mildly amusing the first time greyghost. Now it just looks like a desperate pandering for appreciation. I won't speculate on any Daddy issues but, really, come on mate...it's just embarrassing now.

Good news that Wales are under the SH radar. We'll catch Australia unexpectedly with another world class performance from Huw Bennett and Luke Charteris, two tries from mauls and a penalty try and, once NZ have choked, we have a nice progression to the final.