Scotland team to face Argentina

First topic message reminder :

UPDATED FOR ACTUAL SELECTION

Thought I'd just set up a marker post that we can all use before various team suggestions get lost in other posts

With 8 days to our next game of the RWC against Argentina, Scotland still have their fate very much in their own hands, having secured 2 wins from 2 against tenacious (if not always the most skilled) opposition. Both of these games represented potential banana skins, so 9 points is a good place to be in, but we shouldn't let that disguise the issues that have troubled the Scots so far - a pack that was bullied against Romania, a backline that lacked invention against Georgia, and a host of mistakes and handling errors in both games. Bearing in mind that we'll have a week after the Argentina game before we face England, what side would you put out against Arg and how will that differ to the one that you think Robbo will select?

my selection - Robbo's selection:
1 Chunk - Chunk
2 Ford - Ford
3 Cross - Cross
4 Hines - Hines
5 Hamilton - Kellock
6 Strokosch - Brown
7 Rennie - Barclay
8 Brown - Vernon
9 Cusiter - Blair
10 Jackson - Parks
11 R Lamont - S Lamont
12 S Lamont - Morrison
13 Ansbro - Ansbro
14 Evans - Evans
15 Paterson - R Lamont
Subs
16 S Lawson - S Lawson
17 Low - Dickinson
18 Gray - Gray
19 Barclay - Rennie
20 Blair - Cusiter
21 Parks - De Luca
22 De Luca - Paterson

And now for the real selection:

15 Chris Paterson (Edinburgh) 107 caps 22 tries, 90 conversions, 167 penalties, 3 drop-goals, 800 points
14 Max Evans (Castres) 22 caps, 3 tries, 15 points
13 Nick De Luca (Edinburgh) 27 caps, 1 try, 5 points
12 Graeme Morrison (Glasgow Warriors) 31 caps, 3 tries, 15 points
11 Sean Lamont (Scarlets) 58 caps, 8 tries, 40 points
10 Ruaridh Jackson (Glasgow Warriors) 9 caps, 2 conversions, 1 penalty, 1 drop-goal, 10 points
9 Rory Lawson (Gloucester) CAPTAIN 29 caps

1 Allan Jacobsen (Edinburgh) 58 caps
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh) 51 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
3 Geoff Cross (Edinburgh) 7 caps
4 Richie Gray (Glasgow Warriors) 14 caps
5 Jim Hamilton (Gloucester) 33 caps, 1 try, 5 points
6 Alasdair Strokosch (Gloucester) 21 caps, 1 try, 5 points
7 John Barclay (Glasgow Warriors) 30 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
8 Kelly Brown (Saracens) VICE CAPTAIN 48 caps, 4 tries, 20 points

Substitutes
16 Dougie Hall (Glasgow Warriors) 36 caps, 1 try, 5 points
17 Alasdair Dickinson (Sale Sharks) 22 caps, 1 try, 5 points
18 Nathan Hines (Clermont Auvergne) 75 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
19 Richie Vernon (Sale Sharks) 13 caps
20 Mike Blair (Edinburgh) 73 caps, 7 tries, 35 points
21 Dan Parks (Cardiff Blues) 64 caps, 4 tries, 15 conversions,52 penalties, 15 drop-goals, 251 points
22 Simon Danielli (Ulster) 31 caps, 8 tries, 40 points

George Carlin wrote:Christ on a bike.

Has Jackson only kicked 10 (that's TEN) international points for Scotland?

Yes, but to be fair to him, Mossy usually gets the call

I wouldn't put NDL at 12, don't think he plays particularly well there and I've always preferred him at 13.

The choice is one between Morrison and S Lamont. Pros and cons to both. Most of us hoped to see S Lamont at 12, but obviously Morrison is the better defender and hopefully with Jackson at 10 and CP at 15 coming into the line, Robinson and Townsend will have found a way to compensate for the lack of guile in Morrison. One thing is for sure, when they have the ball, I'll be glad that Morrison is standing firm at 12, rather than having Lamont shoot out of the line on some glory mission and leaving us without cover.

More startlingly - Dougie Hall has scored a try!! When on earth??

funnyExiledScot wrote:More startlingly - Dougie Hall has scored a try!! When on earth??

Can't believe you missed that, fES, it was our only ever win against the All Blacks, he picked the ball up on his own 5m line and ran it in all the way - unstoppable

funnyExiledScot wrote:More startlingly - Dougie Hall has scored a try!! When on earth??

It's not his ball carrying that's the problem. It's his line out accuracy that is rubbish at best. I dread to think what his toilet back home looks like if his accuracy at the lineout is anything to go by.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:More startlingly - Dougie Hall has scored a try!! When on earth??

It's not his ball carrying that's the problem. It's his line out accuracy that is rubbish at best. I dread to think what his toilet back home looks like if his accuracy at the lineout is anything to go by.

This game's gonna be won by the forwards and the better 10, which makes it a good 'ol slugfest. I'm looking forward to it and rooting for the Scots (As an Irishman I'm sensitive when people talk about Argentinian success )

With both teams looking very solid defensively it'll be all about getting into scoring range, winning penalties and having a good kicking success rate.

A big question is whether Contepomi will be fit or not. Without him I think Scotland will edge it, as I suspect Scotland have superior conditioning. With him playing its gonna be a 1 score difference.

The pack is fine (in general) maybe the bench is a bit thin. I hope Jackson can make a few breaks and just give them something else to think about. I accept Morrison may not be the most exciting, but as FES says, when we need defensive cover, he is pretty good.

All in all..... I am not sure feeling more or less apprehensive about Sundays game now we have the team.

Ps, anyone know when Argentina will be announcing their lineup?

Not sure, guess they're giving Dr Phil as much time as possible to prove his fitness?

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Not sure, guess they're giving Dr Phil as much time as possible to prove his fitness?

If Contempomi is picked the 1st Job of Morrison/Strokosch/Brown/Hamilton/Cross/Ford all our big ball carriers is run full tilt into him and see just how match fit he actually is.

In my playing days I have had bruised ribs and I tell you I was still having trouble breathing after 4 weeks not to mention after 2 weeks. If he plays I reckon he'll be playing carrying an injury and whilst I don't condone deliberatly trying to hurt players I would target him and put that inujury to the test.

In truth Contepomi is quite a brave player and I hope the coaches are sensible and don't send him out unless he is 100% fit because if I were AR I would be making sure we find out just how recovered he is.

The litmus test for Contemponi is his fitness test on Friday, apparently:
http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/home/teams/team=40/news/newsid=2053164.html

They were probably better without him against Romania than they were with him against England, so I don't think he's such a massive factor. It's the forwards that worry me.

It's a psychological boost for the whole team when he plays - if you read any of the team interviews, they're happy to admit it.

Perhaps, but the replacement looked pretty handy against Romania - not that we'll give them anything like as much ball and space......

It's going to be such a close one this. I hope Jackson has been practising his long punts and his drop goals, and I hope he's ready to run some ball himself.

So, Contepomi is fit to face Scotland after all, even if he still is on pain-killers and anti-inflammatories. He slots in at IC, leaving Fernandez at flyhalf with Rodriguez dropping back to fullback.

Argentina team to face Scotland:

M Rodriguez, G Camacho, M Bosch, F Contepomi (capt), H Agulla, S Fernandez, N Vergallo; R Roncero, M Ledesma, J Figallo, M Carizza, P Albacete, J Farias Cabello, JM Leguizamon, JM Fernandez Lobbe. Replacements: A Creevy, M Scelzo, M Galarza, G Fessia, A Lalanne, L Gonzalez Amorosino, J Imhoff.

Bring 'em on

Jackson over-hyped according to Scotsman writer Tom English: Should've gone with Parks - can't say that I agree - bogus stats. The counter from his colleague, David Ferguson: Jackson's yer man

You can say anything with stats. A very poor argument from Mr English. I really hope Jackson plays a blinder

Yep, there can't be any more excuses of the kind that some of the press have used to undermine Scotland's test series win in Argentina ("Argentina were without a lot of their top players..." etc).

Both teams are fit and settled, so bring it on.

If Scotland win, then they deserve their plaudits.
If Scotland lose, then we'll really know where the team is.

It will be desparately close and we'll need to show the control that the tight five had in bossing the game against Georgia. Just wish Euge was packing down.

Good luck to the lads.

Right I couldn't make up my mind yesterday who would win this one and I thought Contemponi's absence would just give my cousins from Scotland the edge.
Now he has been declared fit, I I think I will just go for a narrow win for the Scots.

Danielli to come off the bench to score the decisive try

"Jackson has played nine internationals and has been on the field for a total of 355 minutes by my calculations. In his minutes on the field Scotland have scored six tries – two against Romania (Mike Blair and Joe Ansbro), two against Italy (Nick De Luca and Nikki Walker), one against Ireland (Ansbro) and one against France (Sean Lamont). That's an average of one every 59 minutes.

In a similar time period, Parks has been on the field for a total of 372 minutes and during his minutes on the field Scotland have scored seven tries – two against Romania (Simon Danielli got both), two against Italy (Alasdair Dickinson and Mike Blair), one against England (Max Evans) and two against France (Al Kellock and Kelly Brown). That's one every 53 minutes. These numbers are not revelatory but they're interesting and tend to challenge the impression of Parks as a guy who is incapable of getting tries out of his team-mates."

Interesting comment from Tom English. I think the most interesting aspect of it is the fact that all of the tries Scored when Jackson is playing have came from the backs

The teams are picked and as of now there is nothing we can do except wait. I'm nervous but passionate as always and feel that this is one of the most important test matches I'll see for some time for Scotland.

It's time for the boys in navy blue to take a leaf out of our celtic brother's (Ireland) book, silence the critics and believe in the victory!

Rava wrote:Right I couldn't make up my mind yesterday who would win this one and I thought Contemponi's absence would just give my cousins from Scotland the edge.
Now he has been declared fit, I I think I will just go for a narrow win for the Scots.

Danielli to come off the bench to score the decisive try

Will take that, my friend, and even let our 'token' Ulsterman grab the glory at the end!!

Rava I would bite your arm off if I was offered that result.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Rava I would bite your arm off if I was offered that result.

And I would bite the other arm off

TheDukeofCool wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Rava I would bite your arm off if I was offered that result.

And I would bite the other arm off

............. and I would bite!!,........... oh heck!

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:"Jackson has played nine internationals and has been on the field for a total of 355 minutes by my calculations. In his minutes on the field Scotland have scored six tries – two against Romania (Mike Blair and Joe Ansbro), two against Italy (Nick De Luca and Nikki Walker), one against Ireland (Ansbro) and one against France (Sean Lamont). That's an average of one every 59 minutes.

In a similar time period, Parks has been on the field for a total of 372 minutes and during his minutes on the field Scotland have scored seven tries – two against Romania (Simon Danielli got both), two against Italy (Alasdair Dickinson and Mike Blair), one against England (Max Evans) and two against France (Al Kellock and Kelly Brown). That's one every 53 minutes. These numbers are not revelatory but they're interesting and tend to challenge the impression of Parks as a guy who is incapable of getting tries out of his team-mates."

Interesting comment from Tom English. I think the most interesting aspect of it is the fact that all of the tries Scored when Jackson is playing have came from the backs

The teams are picked and as of now there is nothing we can do except wait. I'm nervous but passionate as always and feel that this is one of the most important test matches I'll see for some time for Scotland.

It's time for the boys in navy blue to take a leaf out of our celtic brother's (Ireland) book, silence the critics and believe in the victory!

Interesting thing stats, can be used to prove whatever you are trying to highlight. Parks awareness with his cross kicking can prove decisive with reference to creating try scoring opportunities.

There are pros and cons with both Desperate Dan (control but no defence) and Wacko Jacko (ability to break the line/get the back line moving, can defend his channel but inconsistent with place kicking) seems to be clear. The only problem with playing Jackson is you have no option but to play Mossy...

Personally I agree with AR you have to play Jackson with Parks coming off the bench to see out the match.

Come on Scotland! Two big victories here lads!

The IRB's preview of the match:

Pool scenario
• If Scotland win this match, they will be through to the
quarter-finals.

Head-to-head
• There are 12 matches between these two teams that are
recognised as cap internationals by both.
• Argentina have won eight of these matches and Scotland four.
• Argentina also recognise three other Tests against Scotland in
1969 and 1973. Scotland won two of these and Argentina one.
• They met in the quarter-finals of RWC 2007, a match which
Argentina won 19-13 in Paris.
• Between 1994 and 2008, Argentina won seven successive
matches against Scotland but Scotland have won three of the
last four.
• Argentina have won eight of the last 11 meetings, spanning the
last 20 years, but Scotland have won the last two, both under
current coach Andy Robinson.
• This will be Felipe Contepomi’s ninth Test against Scotland. He
has only played against France more frequently in his career.
• Contepomi has scored 43 points – 13 penalties and two
conversions – against Scotland which is an Argentine record.
• Sixteen Argentine players have scored tries against Scotland with
Juan Manuel Leguizamón and Horacio Agulla from the current
squad among them.
• Scotland hooker Ross Ford and prop Allan Jacobsen both play
their seventh Test matches against Argentina, more than any
other Scot. Dan Parks and Mike Blair can also play for the seventh
time against Argentina.
• Ford has started in all of his previous six Rugby World Cup
matches against Argentina. He has never started seven Tests
against the same opponents.
• Chris Paterson (47 points) and Dan Parks (43) are Scotland’s
all-time top scorers against Argentina.
• Ross Ford, Jim Hamilton and Graeme Morrison from Scotland’s
starting XV have all scored Test tries against Argentina. Dan Parks,
who starts on the bench, has also scored against Argentina.
• Flanker John Barclay (SCO) has won all three Tests he has played
against Argentina.

Argentina
• Ranked No.9 on the IRB World Rankings, their joint-lowest
position since the rankings were introduced in 2003.
• Have played just five Tests in 2011, the fewest of any of the
competing teams at RWC 2011.
• Have won four of their last five Rugby World Cup encounters with
Six Nations opposition.
• Have won all 21 of the lineouts on their own throw, the only team
to be 100 per cent on this in the first two matches.
• Have made 93.6 per cent of their tackles at Rugby World Cup
2011, the best percentage of all competing nations, but they
have only attempted 140 tackles in two matches, the fewest of
the teams at RWC 2011.
• A member of the opposition has been sin-binned in each of
Argentina’s past four Rugby World Cup matches.

Scotland
• Eighth in the IRB World Rankings, dropping a place due to
Ireland’s win against Australia last weekend.
• Have won their last five internationals, their best winning streak
in over 20 years, since they won six in a row in the 1989 Autumn
Internationals and 1990 Five Nations Championship.
• Victory against Argentina would equal Scotland’s best winning
streak of six in Tests, set in 1925-1926 and 1989-1990.
• Aiming to win their opening three RWC matches for first time
since 1991.
• Have lost their third match at three of the last four RWCs, against France
(twice) and New Zealand.
• Have reached the quarter-finals in each of their previous six World Cup
appearances. They have been stranded in the quarters on five occasions,
including the last four World Cups.
• The best finish by Scotland came in the 1991 World Cup, in which they
played five matches at Murrayfield in Edinburgh before losing the bronze
medal match to New Zealand in Cardiff.
• Andy Robinson (ENG) is the first head coach from outside Scotland to lead
the Scots in a RWC.
• One of six teams to score 900 points or more at the RWC. They passed the
900 barrier with Chris Paterson’s second-minute penalty against Romania
which opened the scoring.
• Only team to have recorded at least 100 points in the pool phase of the
previous six World Cups. Romania have not managed this once in six World
Cups. Scotland will need 51 against Argentina and England to keep this
run going.

The venue
• Wellington Regional Stadium, colloquially known as ‘The Cake Tin’, opened
in 2000 and regularly hosts domestic and international rugby union, rugby
league, football and cricket.
• Has hosted 18 rugby Tests with the All Blacks featuring in 15 of them for 13
wins. Australia v USA, which takes place before this match, will be the 19th.
• The three matches not to feature New Zealand were a 38-3 win by Scotland
against Samoa in June 2004, and South Africa’s first two RWC 2011
matches, a 17-16 win against Wales and a 49-3 win against Fiji.
• Scotland’s match against Samoa here seven years ago is their only previous
Test at this venue. Argentina have never played here before.
• Will host eight matches at RWC 2011, the last two Pool A matches, one
match each in Pool B and Pool C, South Africa’s first two Pool D matches
and the two Pool C v Pool D quarter-finals.
• Was the first venue outside of Edinburgh, Scotland, to host the Edinburgh
Military Tattoo.
• Hosted New Zealand’s final match to qualify for the 2010 FIFA World Cup.

The line-ups
• Scotland coach Andy Robinson made five changes to his team, with those
returning having started Scotland’s opening match against Romania.
• Prop Geoff Cross replaces Euan Murray, second row Richie Gray comes in
for Nathan Hines and, in the back row, John Barclay replaces Ross Rennie.
In the backs, fly half Ruaridh Jackson returns for Dan Parks and Chris
Paterson takes over at full back from Rory Lamont.
• Rory Lawson retains the captaincy in Alastair Kellock’s absence and has the
chance to add to his four wins out of four as skipper.
• Scotland record cap holder Chris Paterson will make his 14th RWC
appearance, equalling Doddie Weir’s Scotland record.
• Paterson can also become only the second player to win 10 RWC pool
phase matches. The record holder is George Gregan (AUS), who won 11
RWC pool matches in his career.
• Argentina have made two changes to their XV, both due to players coming
back from injury.
• Captain Felipe Contepomi returns to play in his favoured position of centre
and Julio Farias Cabello comes back into the back row.
• Alejandro Campos, who was a late replacement for Cabello at flanker last
week, drops out of the 22 and Lucas Gonzalez Amorosino, who played at
full back last week, returns to the bench. Martín Rodríguez moves back to
full back to accommodate Contepomi at inside centre.
• Argentina’s starting XV shows only one difference from the team who
played their opening match against England and that is only due to the
injury which put centre Gonzalo Tiesi out of RWC 2011.
• Captain Felipe Contepomi will play his 15th RWC match, a new record for
an Argentine back. Only Mario Ledesma Arocena, who will play for the
16th time at a Rugby World Cup, has played more than Argentina’s No.12.
Contepomi is one of 15 players to score more than 100 points at the
RWC. That total may have changed by the time this

With Contepomi at 12 it's a big chance for Morrison now to make some yards through that channel.

The Jackson vs. Parks debates in the Scotsman are interesting. English does have a point, but you do also have to consider form as well, and Jackson quite rightly won the jersey from Parks in the 6 Nations. Parks' goal kicking stats shouldn't really be relevant either, because CP is the better goal kicker and when Jackson plays CP takes the kicks. It's all about the style of play and giving Scotland more weapons in attack. We won't beat this Argentina side by keeping the ball in the forwards and kicking away possession.

funnyExiledScot wrote:With Contepomi at 12 it's a big chance for Morrison now to make some yards through that channel.

The Jackson vs. Parks debates in the Scotsman are interesting. English does have a point, but you do also have to consider form as well, and Jackson quite rightly won the jersey from Parks in the 6 Nations. Parks' goal kicking stats shouldn't really be relevant either, because CP is the better goal kicker and when Jackson plays CP takes the kicks. It's all about the style of play and giving Scotland more weapons in attack. We won't beat this Argentina side by keeping the ball in the forwards and kicking away possession.

+1

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:With Contepomi at 12 it's a big chance for Morrison now to make some yards through that channel.

The Jackson vs. Parks debates in the Scotsman are interesting. English does have a point, but you do also have to consider form as well, and Jackson quite rightly won the jersey from Parks in the 6 Nations. Parks' goal kicking stats shouldn't really be relevant either, because CP is the better goal kicker and when Jackson plays CP takes the kicks. It's all about the style of play and giving Scotland more weapons in attack. We won't beat this Argentina side by keeping the ball in the forwards and kicking away possession.

+1

+2

ASBO,fES, fellow Scots and fellow travellers on the roller coaster ride that is being Scottish,

here we go again. We have done it before so lets be confident in the coaches selections - I would still have preferred Cusiter and Ansbro but I'm not a rugby coach. Can I have the temerity to suggest we all go out for a bucket tomorrow night and cheer our boys on to victory via the TV.
then some and hopefully not but some at 1030 !