A Golden Generation for Northern Hemisphere Rugby

Looking at the international squads at the moment its seems to me that we could be entering a golden generation for Northern Hemisphere rugby. The last 7 or 8 years have been identified by inconsistency from the Welsh, Englands struggle to build a squad after the 2003 pinnacle was reached, France who have been chronically bipolar under Lievremont and Scotland and Italy who have been tough for 60 minutes but inevitably run out of steam. However in the last 12 months, we have seen a raft of quite talented players emerge on the international scene for these teams.

England recently fielded a front row with an average age of 23 years old (Alex Cobisiero, Dylan Hartley and Dan Cole). Also in the tight 5, we have seen a lot of young lock forwards sticking their hand up for selection. Courtney Lawes, Alyn Wyn-Jones and Riche Grey and Bradley Davies are all under the age of 25.

The English really look to be building a young squad with the likes of Croft, Cobisiero, Wood, Haskell, Ashton, Hartley, Tuilagi, Foden, Youngs, Flood, Lawes, Wilson and Cole all in their early to mid twenties. The squad looks extremely settled and the core is likely to remain for the next few years at least.

In Wales there has been a recent shift to youth. Indeed I was actually worried whether their pack would have the experience to compete with the best. Outside of their front row, not one of them is over the age of 25. But Warburton, Falatau, Lydiate, Wyn-Jones and Davies have been excellent, even against the power of the big Springbok machine. In the backs, Priestland, North, Halfpenny, Davies have all been real finds and things are actually looking very good internationally for Gatlands men.

Scotland are a team who have come on leaps and bounds. Always a team who 'could' spring a surprise, these are happening more and more frequently. Victories over South Africa, Australia and multiple victories over Ireland have won them plaudits, while the performances from last seasons Six Nations against Wales and England have been very impressive. Although the likes of young men Barclay, Beattie, Ansboro and Grey have been centrally involved, the real credit must go to coach Andy Robinson.

I expect little to change with the French. Livremont constant tinkering and rotation has exaggerated the 'which French side will turn up cliché', but there is still likely to be an element of that under Phillipe Saint André's reign. He's bringing in some UK coaching experience but until they get their half back issues sorted out properly I expect to see a team capable of greatness who will show it on occasion.

For all of Ireland's talk about golden generations, for me it isn't Paul O'Connell, Brian O'Driscoll or Ronan O'Gara who are the key men. Its newer, younger players like Sean O'Brien, Stephen Ferris, Jonathon Sexton, Cian Healy or Rob Kearney. Although the future looks grim at lock and we have not tried enough options at centre, there is young talent there and that is where our best chance of improvement lies. Integrating youngsters like Nevin Spence, Jamie Hagan and Conor Murray into our team. I saw that Jonathon Sexton suggested that the youngsters in the squad have less "baggage" that some of the more senior players.

It's no surprise to me that Italy have one of their best Six Nations in years shortly after the introduction of Aironi and Treviso to the Celtic League. We've seen Gori, Semenzato, Derbyshire, Bocchino and the exciting Benvenuti feature for the Azzurri and as time goes on the Italians are only likely to improve, as they realise the benefits of a top flight domestic game. I think its no harm that they are seeing the back of Mallet.

I really think that we are seeing the start of a top period of Northern Hemisphere rugby. We currently have a lot of young players who are key to their side. It makes for a very exciting Six Nations and also the Lions tour in 2 years time. We will be looking at a young but very experienced Lions teams taking on the Wallabies in 2013.

red_stag wrote:It's no surprise to me that Italy have one of their best Six Nations in years shortly after the introduction of Aironi and Treviso to the Celtic League. We've seen Gori, Semenzato, Derbyshire, Bocchino and the exciting Benvenuti feature for the Azzurri and as time goes on the Italians are only likely to improve, as they realise the benefits of a top flight domestic game. I think its no harm that they are seeing the back of Mallet.

stag did Mallet not champion the Italians joining the Celtic League? And he has taken them forward in his time in charge introduced younger players and made them a tough team who everyone is afraid to face and hes done it without a stong 9 or 10 and without a recogniser penalty taker

Right, just being a tinsy winsy bit of a pedant, but it was Charteris not Davies who played against SA, and he's 27 I believe, so the only one of the forwards outside of the front row who's over 25 that played. (Plus B Davies has been distinctly average this season compared to last).


Agree with you about how exciting it is to see so many youngsters come through across all the teams in the 6N's really. The Lions tour is going to be very interesting in terms of who gets picked when there's so much up and coming talent on show already.

Marty, yes he did. However I feel a new man will take them to next level better than he.

stag Im not saying they won't improve under the new man but I feel Mallett earned the chance to prove he can take them forward since he got them in the position to step up

See I'd disagree. Don't forget Italy were getting 4th place in the Six Nations before Mallet took over. He had his time in charge and the France game really saved his bacon I felt. I thought they took one or two steps back initally under Mallet that have been bridged this season.

As regards Ireland, it all depends imo on how soon these youngsters are given provincial gametime. If guys like D'arcy, DOC, Wallace x 2 continue to be picked leaving guys like Spence, Marshall, McFadden and Nagle on the bench or missing squads then the process will be severly hampered

He was being replaced before the France game was he not?

You would expect them to take a step back considering he lost Troncon from the team before he took over and he was their leader and only top class player at that point its only in the last 2 1/2 years since Parisse has evolved into a world class player have they have that replaced. Don't forget a lot of his time has been spent experimenting trying to fill key positions and blooding new players and still hes closed the gap between Italy and the rest.

Tschhh...

Golden generations don't turn up out of hope and expectation.

A crop of rarely-talented players doesn't come off a conveyor belt. But still you need a couple of exceptionally gifted (preferably a forward and a back) who will be remembered twenty-fifty years after their playing days are over.

And you need an exceptional coach/manager.

It's not a game of pitch and toss.

Portnoy, I agree with that. However there were a few years there we couldn't buy a win against SANZAR opponents save an Irish win or two against an experimental Saffer or Aussie team. I do think in next 5 years we could see a situation where most NH v SH games in Europe are won by home team and even get a few away wins too.

red_stag wrote:Looking at the international squads at the moment its seems to me that we could be entering a golden generation for Northern Hemisphere rugby.

Is that purely because there are so many SH guys playing up there now stag?

Ah only in Englands case Grey



I think NZ could have some trouble finding the right mix in a few years. Are there any young hookers in NZ (I don't mean it like that BTW)

Mealamu and Hore are both around 33 now I'd say and Flynn is surely into his 30s too.



At lock Brad Thorn will be tough to replace and I can't help but feel NZ will clutch to McCaw for too long and miss out.



They'll still be a top team but they will be beatable at some stage. I think (especially if NZ win the RWC) that Ireland can beat them in 2012 (we have a 3 test series).

red_stag wrote:Ah only in Englands case Grey

I think NZ could have some trouble finding the right mix in a few years. Are there any young hookers in NZ (I don't mean it like that BTW)
Mealamu and Hore are both around 33 now I'd say and Flynn is surely into his 30s too.
At lock Brad Thorn will be tough to replace and I can't help but feel NZ will clutch to McCaw for too long and miss out.
They'll still be a top team but they will be beatable at some stage. I think (especially if NZ win the RWC) that Ireland can beat them in 2012 (we have a 3 test series).

Hookers? Hika Elliot on the EOYT tour started against Scotland. An exciting young player in the mould of KM. He used to play basketball before realising he was a foot too short, but it seems to overly equip him for lineout throwing duties.

McCaw's apprentice Matt Todd is well underway with a storming season filling in for McCaw during his various injuries.

The Locks used to be an area of concern, but now with Whitelock and the aggressive Jarad Hoeata who is cut directly from Brad Thorns spare jerseys the arsenal seems well equipt again.

NZ is overflowing with great options in the outside backs, and at center we have the destructive Robbie Fruean poised for international action.

If you caught NZ's world cup winning U21's side in action you would have seen Anscombe developing nicely to pick up from DC when he starts wearting shawls along with a host of emerging new back line show stoppers.

After Robbie Deans narrowly fails to win the RWC with the Wallabies, he'll be back over the ditch to steer NZ to back to back RWC victories, rubbing it in the English faces on their home ground along the way.

Don't worry about us Stag we'll be fine.

Yea I know Todd - will he get the necessary gametime though if McCaw doesn't get injured?

red_stag wrote:They'll still be a top team but they will be beatable at some stage. I think (especially if NZ win the RWC) that Ireland can beat them in 2012 (we have a 3 test series).

Stag really hope your right could be a new look Ireland at that point

Well Marty we'll only do it if we make a big call at centre and NZ win the RWC I'd say.

England do seem to be going the right way with their selection policies and the types of players coming in. It's the most settled, young and talented squad we've had in along while.

A big part of this is down to the EPS agreement and the RFU's decision to pay clubs for every Eng qualified player in the match day 23. Over the last few years we've seen the numbers of young English academy players in prem sides rocket.

We've now experienced home and away wins against Oz and I hope soon will taste victory over the Bok (3 match tour in 2012).

All of this makes me wonder just what we could have achieved if we'd had a proper coach in charge for these last 4 years. Bearing in mind this is Johnsons first ever coaching role he's either done a bloomin good job or the players have carried him.

From a Welsh perspective, I really think the regional academies are starting to pay off. Don't forget that they came about in 2005, two years after the start of 'proper' regional rugby in Wales. That's only 6 years ago. For players to go in at 15 and have the full academy experience (U16 andU18) and the coaching and conditioning associated, then you're talking about players who'll be maximum 22 years old now, and I think that's why we're just starting to see them coming through now.

Forwards tend to mature a bit later so we may not see the best of the academies for a few years, i.e. in 2015 the first academy products will be 25/26 so may start pushing through in the forwards, although the current crop of youngsters are ousting our older players in the forwards in their early twenties, which is rare. Perhpas the environment they're now in from 15/16 is allowing forwards to mature earlier???

My worry is that every year we get a new raft of players 'maturing' from the regional academies. However, with only 4 pro teams to go to their opportunties are limited. A year down the line and another 120 players complete their academy experience. I'm not suggesting we go back to a 10 team Welsh pro league, but we're already seeing players leaving Wales as they see their path blocked, and this is just the first wave of players! (e.g. Loxton and the other one going to Ireland, Shingler and someone else to London Irish, etc.). More inter-region loans would help, and possibly the elevation of RGC1404 in North Wales into more of a academy dominated semi-pro side or even 5th Welsh region.

In summary, I think the academies are doing what they were meant to do and we're just seeing the first glimses of their success now.

Griff wrote:From a Welsh perspective, I really think the regional academies are starting to pay off. Don't forget that they came about in 2005, two years after the start of 'proper' regional rugby in Wales. That's only 6 years ago. For players to go in at 15 and have the full academy experience (U16 andU18) and the coaching and conditioning associated, then you're talking about players who'll be maximum 22 years old now, and I think that's why we're just starting to see them coming through now.

Forwards tend to mature a bit later so we may not see the best of the academies for a few years, i.e. in 2015 the first academy products will be 25/26 so may start pushing through in the forwards, although the current crop of youngsters are ousting our older players in the forwards in their early twenties, which is rare. Perhpas the environment they're now in from 15/16 is allowing forwards to mature earlier???

My worry is that every year we get a new raft of players 'maturing' from the regional academies. However, with only 4 pro teams to go to their opportunties are limited. A year down the line and another 120 players complete their academy experience. I'm not suggesting we go back to a 10 team Welsh pro league, but we're already seeing players leaving Wales as they see their path blocked, and this is just the first wave of players! (e.g. Loxton and the other one going to Ireland, Shingler and someone else to London Irish, etc.). More inter-region loans would help, and possibly the elevation of RGC1404 in North Wales into more of a academy dominated semi-pro side or even 5th Welsh region.
In summary, I think the academies are doing what they were meant to do and we're just seeing the first glimses of their success now.

Has nobody at the WRU looked at London Welsh? With a bit of investment they could certainly contribute Wales' player development. They are such a famous old club, I'd like to see them come good again (maybe moving to the Celtic league though!).

Cumbrian, the Ospreys have/had an agreement with them of some sort. The problem as I understand it is that any clubs in the English league structure have to have a committment to developing players for the English national team. I agree with this 100%. It would not be within their grassroots to Elite structure/plan for one of their semi-pro teams to be developing players for another country. Obviously if they wanted to leave the league structure, remain in England, but play in Wales then they could. But we've got lots of teams already in the Welsh league structure doing just that! Plus, there's probably not the funding for a 5th Welsh region or a place for them in the current Pro12 setup.

I think I'm right on the English league thing and committment to player development. Can anyone confirm???

How large are your academies?

There are only 17 in Munster Academy and not all of them will be rewarded with a contract at the end of the 3 year academy programme.

Cumbrian wrote:

Griff wrote:From a Welsh perspective, I really think the regional academies are starting to pay off. Don't forget that they came about in 2005, two years after the start of 'proper' regional rugby in Wales. That's only 6 years ago. For players to go in at 15 and have the full academy experience (U16 andU18) and the coaching and conditioning associated, then you're talking about players who'll be maximum 22 years old now, and I think that's why we're just starting to see them coming through now.

Forwards tend to mature a bit later so we may not see the best of the academies for a few years, i.e. in 2015 the first academy products will be 25/26 so may start pushing through in the forwards, although the current crop of youngsters are ousting our older players in the forwards in their early twenties, which is rare. Perhpas the environment they're now in from 15/16 is allowing forwards to mature earlier???

My worry is that every year we get a new raft of players 'maturing' from the regional academies. However, with only 4 pro teams to go to their opportunties are limited. A year down the line and another 120 players complete their academy experience. I'm not suggesting we go back to a 10 team Welsh pro league, but we're already seeing players leaving Wales as they see their path blocked, and this is just the first wave of players! (e.g. Loxton and the other one going to Ireland, Shingler and someone else to London Irish, etc.). More inter-region loans would help, and possibly the elevation of RGC1404 in North Wales into more of a academy dominated semi-pro side or even 5th Welsh region.
In summary, I think the academies are doing what they were meant to do and we're just seeing the first glimses of their success now.

Has nobody at the WRU looked at London Welsh? With a bit of investment they could certainly contribute Wales' player development. They are such a famous old club, I'd like to see them come good again (maybe moving to the Celtic league though!).

The Ospreys talked about it, but to be honest, the Championship isnt that much better for development than the Welsh Premiership, and youngsters playing for eg. Cardiff/Ponty are much easier to call on if needed for the Blues, compared to being based in London.

Stag, ours are not all awarded a contract obviously as that would be a massive squad!. They choose the best. But my point is that, e.g. the Scarlets, with Stephen Jones as no.1 outside half and Rhys Preistland his understudy, the young prospect Shingler has decided to go to London Irish as he felt his way was blocked. Next year the Scarlets will have a new 10 coming from U18's, and the year after I assume. I know this is the same for Ireland too, and Scotland if they have 2 academies at 2 clubs, jsut pointing out some of the problems as I see them.

At the Dragons we have an U16 and U18 squad who play against other region's academies plus some games against the north wales team RGC1404 and some against English premiership academies I believe.

Here's the U16 squad (39 players by my count):
http://www.newportgwentdragons.com/agegraderugby.aspx?ag=2

Here's the U18 squad
http://www.newportgwentdragons.com/agegraderugby.aspx?ag=1

Plus, there's something called the academy squad (whatever that is) which seems to have players of all ages - that has 14 players, maybe the best of the other U16 and U18 squads? Maybe that is the compartive squad to Munsters?

http://www.newportgwentdragons.com/Academy.aspx

What is the point of investing money in a club based in London and then possibly have players qualify to play for England under the residency ruling.
Unless they are Welsh or have a Welsh connection or move to Wales they would not qualify for us anyway.

Any future investment must be done to ensure we search for players from every corner of Wales.

The Six Nations have always produced great players. Even Ireland, who were crap for so long, produced super stars like Gibson, Slattery, Geoghegan and Wood. The European nations just never have as many brilliant players as the Tri Nations. I can't see that changing much.

Na sadly I dont agree, Warburton, Lydiate, North and Faletau are at their peaks now... the talent and skill will soon be coached out of them in the next couple of seasons.
Think back to 2003 when we had the likes of Jonathan Thomas and many others having the world sit up and take notice, at their young skillful play... now look at them!

If Wales have a good World Cup, they will all go home revel in their new status and think they have "made it" and stop developing.

That's a rather depressing way of looking at it. You never know. Things may have changed

Griff wrote:I think I'm right on the English league thing and committment to player development. Can anyone confirm???

I also believe this is true but cannot confirm it. Time for some research

Hammer, I think it may have been in the press because of the Ospreys link. I think the RFU said, and rightly so, that if the Ospreys think they're going to have a welsh regional development team in the English league then you can bug*er off!

It's a nice idea (from our welsh point of view) but it doesn't work in the modern game with teams in national leagues signing up to performance and development agreements with the national governing body. London Welsh are only really Welsh in name and cannot and should not become a training club for the welsh national team. Imagine the furore if the RFU bought Aberavon RFC and tried to place English youth there for development. We'd go nuts!

a golden generation of Northern hemisphere rugby?

isnt it noticeable that the most of the tries scored in this years world cup have been scored by Southern Hemisphere sides.

Northrn hemisphere sides rely on penalties to get their points.

Griff wrote:
My worry is that every year we get a new raft of players 'maturing' from the regional academies. However, with only 4 pro teams to go to their opportunties are limited. A year down the line and another 120 players complete their academy experience. I'm not suggesting we go back to a 10 team Welsh pro league, but we're already seeing players leaving Wales as they see their path blocked, and this is just the first wave of players! (e.g. Loxton and the other one going to Ireland, Shingler and someone else to London Irish, etc.). More inter-region loans would help, and possibly the elevation of RGC1404 in North Wales into more of a academy dominated semi-pro side or even 5th Welsh region.

In summary, I think the academies are doing what they were meant to do and we're just seeing the first glimses of their success now.

yeh totally agree the development of rgc needs to be improved also, i think the fact that players like hook and byrne going to france is also a good thing, allows new players to get try and break through while hoom improves his rugby in a high league competing with the best while earning a tidy piece of cash on the side

aucklandlaurie: We're not yet through the second round! Bit early to make generalisations, isn't it?

I think redstag is right and we do have a lot of good young players coming through - at least in the 4 nations. I have no idea about France.

England have showed signs in the last year that they are getting it together - patchy, I know, but there have been good performances as well as bad, and I am yet to decide how far England's result against Argentina was good Argentinean spoiling (some, at least) and how far England being awful (also some).

Ireland and Wales both have a fair few talents coming through, as discussed above.

And even Scotland - who have been going through a terrible patch for a long, long time - have perked up. That win against South Africa was very important indeed, especially since the Boks promptly gave us a hammering, and gave a fair few young Scots players that priceless commodity, confidence.

So yeah, I'd say it's looking quite exciting for the next few years!

Cowshot
The generalisation does need to be made, as the approach to the game is widening between the two hemispheres.

I must also say though that the two northern hemi sides that have over the long term (last ten years) Improved both their skill levels and execution of the game are Japan and canada.
In the short term (last 12 to 18 months) and it may surprise you, but I consider wales as the team that has looked at it skill gaps and have deliberately tried to improve throughout an 80 minute game of rugby....

I'd certainly agree that Wales have been getting better again, and that Canada has been improving (I think the Churchill Cup helped with that. Real shame it's finished), Japan too.

I think England are improving again too. There is more effort to play a fully fifteen man game, but this squad hasn't yet really found its own style. We've had a lot of chopping and changing and there's a lot of uncertainty about eg our best back row. Quite a few of us think we'll have a really dangerous squad next WC, but we're not quite ready for this one.

I'm not sure how far the gap is a hemispherical one, given that the SA and English attitude to forward play is similar, and similarly appreciated. It seems more Aus/AB vs the rest to me...? Or are you thinking of something else?

True there may be some similarity between the South African and English forwards but the objectives of the respective backlines is poles (hemispheres) apart.

Auckland, I see what you're saying but I think this post is about the golden generation that is about to start, not one that's already here. The OP is talking about the youngsters coming through that could set the NH (and therefore the Lions) up for a healthy future. By nature these youngsters are maybe not ready yet, not world class yet, but it does bode well for the future. Some of Wales' best players (Warburton, North, Faletau) are around 21/22, same with the other nations, so maybe a 'golden generation' is on the cards. They're managing to oust the older, more experienced players (Martyn Williams, Ryan Jones) already at their young age, which is rare.

It's all guess work though! They may all go down hill by 25...

"I think England are improving again too. There is more effort to play a fully fifteen man game, but this squad hasn't yet really found its own style. We've had a lot of chopping and changing and there's a lot of uncertainty about eg our best back row. Quite a few of us think we'll have a really dangerous squad next WC, but we're not quite ready for this one."

You also need to factor in performances at recent U20 World Championships. 3 of the last 4 finals have been between New Zealand and England. While NZ have huge reserves of talent constantly coming through, it has been noticeable, particularly in the last tournament, how much more technically gifted the English backs are than they have been in the past. There is definetly a change in the skill level of English players from the grass roots level and it will start to come through the national side soon.

True there may be some similarity between the South African and English forwards but the objectives of the respective backlines is poles (hemispheres) apart.

Didn't see much of this widening hemispherical gap in Ireland Australia today...

Mr Thunder: Cheers, didn't know about the U20s.

aucklandlaurie wrote: True there may be some similarity between the South African and English forwards but the objectives of the respective backlines is poles (hemispheres) apart.

I entirely disagree. The difference between the Saffer and English forwards is a step-change difference in handling skills and accuracy.

Whereas the HNs side are still learning the skills off the offload, SH teams are developing their forwards into piano shifters who can play a bit. (notwithstanding today's Irish result).

"I entirely disagree. The difference between the Saffer and English forwards is a step-change difference in handling skills and accuracy."

See I disagree again. In the backs then yeah I can see the difference but England have some skillful forwards in Hartley, Lawes, Stevens, Corbisiero, Croft. They can all play a bit.

Dont think you should have Stevens in that list that is if you mean Matt Stevens did he not learn his trade in South Africa.
Of the rest only Croft and Lawes are the English born players but Hatley moved to England when he was 15 Corbisiero when he was 5.

"Dont think you should have Stevens in that list that is if you mean Matt Stevens did he not learn his trade in South Africa.Of the rest only Croft and Lawes are the English born players but Hatley moved to England when he was 15 Corbisiero when he was 5."

AND? You were talking about the current packs... these players currently play for England. And what is the obsession with Corbisiero being born in New York and somehow not being English... jesus he was 5 (as you say) when he moved to the UK. Alot of people move around the world these days and are born all over the place. Two of the Scottish players were born in Hong Kong... this does not make them any less Scottish.

I was not being nasty I was just pointing out that Stevens did learn his trade in South Africa and he did play for their under 19s side.
What confused me was that you said English players but obviously you meant players in the England squad.

Don't worry Cymroglan only seems to comment on places of birth or residency when it involves England. He's like greyghost-lite but still pretty boring with his wind-ups.

Hartley was 16 and Stevens was 18. Those two years key?

Considering Stevens was part of the Bath front renown for throwing it around and off-load I think he's more likely to have learnt those skills with Bath. It was his 1st professional contract as well

aucklandlaurie wrote: a golden generation of Northern hemisphere rugby?

isnt it noticeable that the most of the tries scored in this years world cup have been scored by Southern Hemisphere sides.

Northrn hemisphere sides rely on penalties to get their points.

Well, right now there are 5 NH teams and 5 SH teams in the top 10 try scoring table. France 2nd, Italy 3rd. That's generally quite an ignorant statement.

SafeAsMilk wrote:Don't worry Cymroglan only seems to comment on places of birth or residency when it involves England. He's like greyghost-lite but still pretty boring with his wind-ups.

Exactly. Virtually none of the English squad are both English and learned to play in England. This is such a well rehearsed point, that we may as well all move on and just accept this new multi-national black-wearing ill-performing squad, and try not to mention that it's really England-lite, still pretty boring except unable to kick goals suddenly.

TheGreyGhost wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:Don't worry Cymroglan only seems to comment on places of birth or residency when it involves England. He's like greyghost-lite but still pretty boring with his wind-ups.

Exactly. Virtually none of the English squad are both English and learned to play in England. This is such a well rehearsed point, that we may as well all move on and just accept this new multi-national black-wearing ill-performing squad, and try not to mention that it's really England-lite, still pretty boring except unable to kick goals suddenly.

Everyone's favourite keyboard warrior is back

P.S. It's more like 5 out of the 30 players that aren't "English" by your definition.

I back up what some are saying about Ireland: that we need guys like Darcy, Wallace, Wallace, Horgan, DOC, and some others to not be playing for the provinces week in week out so that guys like McFadden, Nagle, Marshall, Carr etc start to come through.

Griff wrote:From a Welsh perspective, I really think the regional academies are starting to pay off. Don't forget that they came about in 2005, two years after the start of 'proper' regional rugby in Wales. That's only 6 years ago. For players to go in at 15 and have the full academy experience (U16 andU18) and the coaching and conditioning associated, then you're talking about players who'll be maximum 22 years old now, and I think that's why we're just starting to see them coming through now.

Forwards tend to mature a bit later so we may not see the best of the academies for a few years, i.e. in 2015 the first academy products will be 25/26 so may start pushing through in the forwards, although the current crop of youngsters are ousting our older players in the forwards in their early twenties, which is rare. Perhpas the environment they're now in from 15/16 is allowing forwards to mature earlier???

My worry is that every year we get a new raft of players 'maturing' from the regional academies. However, with only 4 pro teams to go to their opportunties are limited. A year down the line and another 120 players complete their academy experience. I'm not suggesting we go back to a 10 team Welsh pro league, but we're already seeing players leaving Wales as they see their path blocked, and this is just the first wave of players! (e.g. Loxton and the other one going to Ireland, Shingler and someone else to London Irish, etc.). More inter-region loans would help, and possibly the elevation of RGC1404 in North Wales into more of a academy dominated semi-pro side or even 5th Welsh region.

In summary, I think the academies are doing what they were meant to do and we're just seeing the first glimses of their success now.

That's an excellent post
The whole point of the academies was to create a log jam of Welsh talent and to make sure any dedicated, aged 15+ player showing potential is given a spot within the system. Ideally only the very best will go to the Welsh regions while some may be exported to Ireland / England and hopefully block spaces for their players, while others will still be professional in the new 10 team Welsh Premiership.

Sadly it does seem a few have slipped through the net Fly Half Matthew Jarvis went to Connaght and looks a good prospect, looking at their clubs Face Book page during games it is clear he is having a massive effect there, however he was deemed surplus for the Ospreys.
Fly Half Steven Shingler has gone to London Irish from the Scarlets which is sad because he could of had a good few games for them this season.

The one thing we cannot afford to export though is forwards, we produce so few of them, that to lose any could have a bad effect on Welsh rugby.