state of uk 100m, men.

First topic message reminder :

I know this topics been done, but i was browsing the power of ten rankings and it doesnt make good reading. No men have managed to break 10 seconds, and the only 1 realy capable of it right now(dwain chambers) wont be around much longer. So the question is, when will uk sprinters catch up with therest of the world? And who will replace DC as the topdog once he starts to slide or hangs up the spikes for good?

Izzy do you think williamson will ever get back to that form or even better?

Ifc91 - I think of all the up and coming srpinters in Britain, he has [ or had ] the most potential.

Back in 2009, over the latter part of the season in partcular, if I remember correctly, he was in races lining up alongside some of the best. You could see he knew it was his chance to use them to drag himself up to the standard. But I suspect that he was trying too hard. There were also question marks over his 'conditioning' i.e. that he could've been in better shape, and seemed to possibly be not as finely tuned as he could be. Just shows the natural ability he had...

He kind of made it clear regarding where he looked for inspiration and the standards that had to be followed, hence, possibly why he begin to train out in Jamaica. Do remember a an interveiw with Powell where he asked about Williamson, and Powell remarked that he thought Simeon [ and possibly British sprinters more generally ] was lazy...

Williamson has run a legal [ non-wind assisted ] time of 10.56 on the 21st July of this year, and a wind aided time of 10.35 in June. I can only guess that, as a result of these races' timing during the season, that more recently, he is getting better and recovering from his injury. Like all I'm sure, hoping that he has a good winter, training, staying fit and healthy, so that he's ready for the UK trials, leading into London 2012.

I do remember thinking that Williamson was possibly our answer to Jamaica's Yohan Blake. He is, however, still our best hope, and the natural number one after Dwain, and it's more than unfortunate that he's been out of the picture for so long...hasn't at all helped British sprinting...

Agree that he was probably the one i was most excited about. Think it was 2009 where he won the british title ahead of chambers, and i thought then that he was going to replace DC as number 1 and possibly break 10 seconds.(injurys always seem to come at the worst time).
Guess all we can do is hope he comes back strong next season. What was the injury anyway? How long was he officialy out for before he could return to training?

Have just checked the internet for any informatiom on Williamson. He had to have knee surgery - a 'biggee' fro any athlete;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simeon_Williamson

His Twitter;

http://twitter.com/#!/simba100m

A 'Spikes' article on Williamson;

http://www.spikesmag.com/features/simeonwilliamsononhisjamaicantraining.aspx

;...and an article referencing Powell's comments regarding Williamson and British sprinters being lazy;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/5896347/Asafa-Powell-British-sprinters-are-lazy.html

BBC interview with Bolt, where he comments on Williamson;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/8641660.stm

All food for thought

Cheers izzy, and that article from powell backs up the point i was making about jamaican sprinters wanting it more perfectly! EO should have a look at it.

icey another post that does away with any sort of reality

'Really? East German women used to dominate the sprint events with only the Americans and Jamicans putting up any kind of resistance. The Americans and Jamaicans are still dominating and where are the East Germans? We all know the reason why they have fallen away'

here's a lie that should be nailed straight away
no jamaican woman has ever held the 100m world record since records began, 64 athletes are named not one jamaican. simple straightforward fact

apologists like to suggest that jamaican women sprinters have always been good to avoid having to explain away their sudden dominance

simply not true - and typical of this sort of thread. opinion which when examined doesn't hold water.


in my opinion the jamaican women have simply replaced the east germans, and in time the same fate will befall them.

the powell interview is one man's opinion about one other man
fact v opinion, do ya see the difference?

jamaica is the worlds 140th biggest country - fact
jamaican sprinters have run 5 of 7 fastest times of all time - fact
the vast majority of sub 10 times this year belong to jamaicans - fact

'jamaicans want it more' - supposition that can't be proved
' british sprinters are lazy' - opinion that can't be proved

also alan wells might disprove both of the above by himself

but basically i'm giving you facts and you're giving me opinion.
facts opinion facts opinion facts opinion see the difference yet?

Firstly i value the opinion of one of the fastest men in history alot more than yours. Hes witnessed it all first hand so knows much more than you on the subject. Secondly its a FACT that as of right now the majority of them are considered clean by the sports governing bodies. Until proved otherwise thats the only FACT im worried about.

EO,

In your above post. All you have done is state your knowledge of geography which is correct and your ability to read the iaaf rankings. I congratulate you on this amazing task.

Then you've just stated that other people's opinion is their opinion. Then you've gone on to put the nail in the coffin and then used your own opinion regarding Alan Wells. That is a bit hypocritical. But anyway...

So the facts are that:

jamaica is the worlds 140th biggest country - fact
jamaican sprinters have run 5 of 7 fastest times of all time - fact
the vast majority of sub 10 times this year belong to jamaicans - fact

So, you've just proven that Jamaica is the world power in sprinting at the moment, and they are punching above their weight 'person for person'.

This thread is about the state of UK sprinting. Do you want to create anti Jamaica thread? Or a thread for elite athletes that you don't like who you believe are on drugs thread?

honestly... come on eo, stop spoiling this forum.

english_osprey wrote:
in my opinion the jamaican women have simply replaced the east germans, and in time the same fate will befall them.

that is one heck of an opinion. stick to de facts goddamnit!

SJ

strawberry

that's pretty good

Back to the question, on the front of young sprinters coming through theres some excitement over david bolarinwa and adam gemeli. Both 17(18 next month), both ran slightly wind assisted(+2.8) 10.23s. Second and third at the european under 20's this year.(although both destroyed by jimmy vicaut!). In a few years both of them could be around the 10 second mark with proper dedication.

Ifc91 - good shout with David Balorinwa and Adam Gemili...

Balorinwa disappointed over the 100m at Talinn [ Euro Junior Champs ], not having run his best ( expected a better time at least ), but really wouldn't have been able to do anything about Vicaut even if at his best...but redeemed himself over the 200m by taking the title.

Interestingly, Gemili ran 20.98 for the 200m, into a -0.2m headwind, a couple of weeks back, making him on paper faster than Balorinwa over the distance, and shows he's continuing to improve right up to the end of the season...

I get the feeling the two - Balorinwa and Gemili - will be pushing each for years to come...at least I hope so - would certainly help British sprinting...

True, vicaut was just head and shoulders above the rest. But 2nd and 3rd was a good result for britain. They both have very good times over 100 and 200 for there age. They could have a great domestic contest over the coming years, assuming they both train properly. I read somewhere that bolarinwa only started weight training very recently. Will try to find the article...have a funny feeling Lsabre may have posted it on a previous thread i started on bolarinwa.

Agree - 2nd and 3rd are still great results

Does anyone think that we Britons praise mediocracy far too much and that is why we are so poor in Athletics? Would it be true to state that the celebrity culture here reflects the state of our athletics, especially Sprinting at the moment? Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-OoYazM4s0

The athletes are not very hard working, to me.

Strawberry Jam wrote:

english_osprey wrote:
in my opinion the jamaican women have simply replaced the east germans, and in time the same fate will befall them.

that is one heck of an opinion. stick to de facts goddamnit!

SJ

Total ownage.

Also where did you find this? The only way I can find the Brits rankings in on all-athletics which you have to pay for

http://www.thepowerof10.info/rankings/

find out what?

Liam_Main wrote:Also where did you find this? The only way I can find the Brits rankings in on all-athletics which you have to pay for.

Power of 10 has the british rankings. There are a few missed times, but it is the best website by a country mile.

For some reason my post with the link got deleted.

Unbelievable BS by 2 posters on this thread. I have not laughed so much reading an athletics as I have on this thread.

Cheers osp and dj.

Another emerging junior sprinter to watch out for is Josh Street. Born in 1994 which makes him a year younger than Bolarinwa and Gimili. He came second in last week's under 20s trials 100m behind Bolarinwa in 10.43 and won the 200m in 20.9.

Also Chijindu Ujah who came third behind Street in 10.44, who was also born in 1994.

So lots of emerging talent in the juniors.

Just had a look at the British men's sprints list for the 100m and 200m. Not sure what to think. For the 100m, we arrive at this stage of the season with only 2 men at 10.20 or better. 10.20 is not the A qualifier mark - it's the UKA target for the men's 100m, to get 10 men on or better. And as said, so far, we have only 2!

http://www.thepowerof10.info/rankings/rankinglist.aspx?event=100&agegroup=ALL&sex=M&year=2012

We're faring a little better in the men's 200m. 4 men at 20.60 or better [ again the UKA top 10 target ].

http://www.thepowerof10.info/rankings/rankinglist.aspx?event=200&agegroup=ALL&sex=M&year=2012

I know there is some bad luck thrown into the mix. Chambers should be sub-10.20 already, easy. But he's had the misfortune of running awful conditions, pretty much everywhere he's been competing.

In the 200m, we're also out of touch. Hoping that one or two break out and put in some solid performances in London.

In Olympic, with a home Olympics, feel we should be doing better.

That said, there are plusses. We have a phenomenal young talent by the name of Adam Gemili make a breakthrough [ who'll be a great talent over both the 100 and 200 ] - and it seems that big Simeon Williamson is returning from injury and looking good.

But there's alot of work to do if anyone of the Brits is sto make a sprint final [ best hopes presently DC, Gemili and Oyepitan - though will be very, very hard task just to make a final! ].

Will be interesting to see this coming week's WJ championships.

In our case I think it is more of a generation thing. Can see that in other sports - particularly tennis where all of a sudden we have a lot of talent coming through after lots of barren years.

I doubt though that we are ever going to have the same sprinting talent as Jamaica has right now. In their case a golden generation plus ideal sprinting conditions, massive cultural support and perhaps a lax local drug testing authority have all contributed to their success.

teassoc wrote:Will be interesting to see this coming week's WJ championships.

In our case I think it is more of a generation thing. Can see that in other sports - particularly tennis where all of a sudden we have a lot of talent coming through after lots of barren years.

I doubt though that we are ever going to have the same sprinting talent as Jamaica has right now. In their case a golden generation plus ideal sprinting conditions, massive cultural support and perhaps a lax local drug testing authority have all contributed to their success.

Perhaps not.

It is actually true that the first event JADCO ever did testing at (Jamaica only got any testing facilities a couple of years ago) they busted about 6 athletes (including Yohan Blake).

Think they decided not to go ahead with their plans for OOC testing after that, as it was clearly too risky.

3 month ban for taking nothing more than a cough syrup. Widespread doping eh?

Made them give up the anti-doping programme pretty quick though, haha. There were plans for extensive OOC testing until that little disaster.

Yeah so its not natural talent coz they is black. It is drugs innit.

Looking into British Men's sprinting a little but more, just been checking out some of the physical characteristics and conditioning of some of our best British sprinters, and comparing them to some of the leading sprinters in the world;

Harry Leslie Aikines-Aryeetey
1.80 m (5 ft 11 in) - 95 kg (14 st 13 lb)

Dwain Chambers
1.82 m ( 5 ft 11.5 in ) - 92 kg (14 st 6 lb)

And then compared to some of the best sprinters in the world;

Usain Bolt
1.95 m ( 6 ft 5 in ) - 92 kg (14 stone 7 lbs )

Tyson Gay
1.80 m ( 5 feet 11 in ) - 75 kg ( 11 stone 11 lbs )

Asafa powell
1.90 m (6 ft 3 in) - 88 kg (190 lb; 13 st 10lbs )

Yohan Blake
1.80 m ( 5 ft 11 in ) - 80 kg (176 lb - 12st 8 lbs )

Christophe Lemaitre
1.89 m (6 ft 2 ¹⁄₂ in) - 74 kg ( 11st 10 lbs)

[ Late addition to this post ]
Maurice Greene
1.76 m (5 ft 9 ¹⁄₂ in) 75 - 77 kg ( 11 stone 11 lbs - 12 stone 2 lbs lb)

The heaviest srpinter - at very nearly 15 stone! - in that list is HAA yet he happens to be one of the shortest on the list. I think HAA's own progress is hampered by the fact he is probably carrying too much muscle mass - perhaps as much as 1 1/2 to 2 stone - or 21 to 28 lbs. That is a lot! So is Dwain Chambers.

Asasfa Powell is at least 3" taller than both, and yet more than a stone lighter than HAA and more than half a stone lighter than Dwain. As for Bolt, he happens to be between 5 - 6" shorter than both the sprinters I've listed, and still lighter. I believe Tyson Gay is perhaps the best conditioned out of all sprinters, in my view. He really is built for sprinting.

One of the things I've picked up from comments made by people becoming more and more interested in development and progress Adam Gemili - is that he shouldn't attempt to bulk up too much and too quickly [ couldn't find any stats on his physical stature ]...

What are other people's thoughts on the issue of the conditionig of our sprinters?! At what point is muscle mass a drag factor rather than benefit?! Is there a sprinters index for determining optimum muscle mass to height?!

Thanks for that SJ. I think you only have to look at Harry AA to realise hes to big! As for DC i think hes act been slimmer lately than a few seasons ago. And looking at Williamson and MLF, the also seem to be very overweight(and in there case it doesnt seem to be to much muscle either!).

lfc91 wrote:Thanks for that SJ. I think you only have to look at Harry AA to realise hes to big! As for DC i think hes act been slimmer lately than a few seasons ago. And looking at Williamson and MLF, the also seem to be very overweight(and in there case it doesnt seem to be to much muscle either!).

Some good points and examples there. Simeon Williamson had been described as 'overweight' in the past. MLF even worse.

Agree that if anything, DC is slimmer now than he's been in the past. But think he could slim down further. He struggles in the latter part of a race. He did in previous years when he had amongst the best starts out there - which led him to a indoor 60m time of 6.42 [ and 6.41 for his fastest ever 60m segment of a 100m race ]. Since then, he's honed his racing to suit the 100m specifcially. However, believe he's still struggling with the latter stages of a race. Endurance is severely affected by any extra weight / muscle mass that may be carried beyond the optimal for a given athlete.

Natural ability and talent goes along way. So does hard work. But at the elite level, every
little aspect that might affect performance is critical. Any additional weight, even if it's muscle, will have an affect on performance. The individual weights I've listed for the athletes above are from Wikkipedia - so they aren't wholly completely accurate in terms of where these athletes are at this moment in time - but thopugh it might be useful for
comparison reasons.

It is worth asking what kind of impact it would have on DC's performance if he were to be a little trimmer, carrying perhaps 1 stone less in mucle mass?! Looking at old footage of World Championships 100m in Seville in 1997, when DC set his PB of 9.97, he's definitely a lot less bulked up / out.

I think in Bolt, Gay and Powell - and Bolt and Gay in particular - we see something quite telling in terms of conditioning, muscle mass proportions to height etc. They are seemingly the blueprint in terms of conditioing and / or physiology, if we're thinking about sprinting right at the elite, super fast level.

Looking forward to the Olympics and hoping the weather doesn't completely murder the athletics