Should you turn down a title shot in Germany???

IF YOU HAVEN'T GOT A PUNCH!!!

Not a windup....But history shows you don't win there however well you do...!! Ottke, Sturm etc...

With my custom Impartiality.. I had Macklin winning 116-113 with one even against Felix.......but I knew he was going to lose anyway..

Does it make better business sense to keep your unbeaten record with so many titles on offer and to bide your time...Sure you can earn some decent bucks fighting for a title... but long term rather than go back to the so-called drawing boad, getting a loss and wasting probably a year or more of your career..... would it be better to fight someone you have a chance of beating!!

Because if you don't bang it's a pointless journey!!

Should you fight with the cards stacked against you or should you turn down a title shot in Germany!!

Yes and no. If you are a defensive fighter of medium ability then no. Asking for trouble, if you are a fast paced agressive fighter then yes - the injustice will do your career a world of good.

If you are a big time banger then its worth going down and totalling the opponent - unless its Vitali.

Perhaps a call for neutral judges? Might cost a little more but much more honest.

Don't think anyone in Britain can really comment at the moment.

well it depends on where your career is at that moment in time is to be honest. for macklin world title shots arent around the corner at all times so you may as well take your shot when it comes but lets say calzaghe taking on ottke you have other options so you dont have to take the risk.
basically it depends on whether the fighter feels confident he can overcome a few possible rounds of dodgy scoring. but i wouldnt blame fighters for turning down fights against a german in germany.

Think germany has overtaken italy as the shaft center of world boxing..

Great article Truss.

I had Macklin winning against Sturm but he was never going to get a decision. I would have to say no though you should take the shot if it's the best option available. The defeat has done Macklin no harm and it will do Martin Murray no harm either.

We say Germany is bad but if you seen Cox vs Sai it could put foreign promoters sending their fighters over here. Doesn't even look like Sai will get a re match.

Hello Truss new on here, good article.
Henry Cooper used to see say you had to knock em out in Germany just to get a draw.
If you can't hit avoid Germany like the plague if possible.

Welcome to these boards.....

Agree..the last time anyone won on points there was 1945.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Welcome to these boards.....

Agree..the last time anyone won on points there was 1945.

When does the home favourite lose a close decision anywhere?

Scottrf wrote:Don't think anyone in Britain can really comment at the moment.

Don't forget about people like Devon Alexander and his 'fortunate' results against Kotelnik and Mathysse.

I think all countries get this reputation at a certain point. Colonial Lion has often, and rightly, made the point about the criminally awful scoring that was a feature of title fights in Japan, from the late 1950s until comparatively recently. Italy, as has been said, had this reputation throughout the 80s and 90s. However, it seems to me that poor scoring recognises few borders - look at some of the decisions in Vegas and London recently involving home fighters, notably that Godawful Paul Williams verdict.

You ask whether fighters without a punch should avoid taking a fight out in Germany. I can see why you might say so, but the kudos gained from an obviously terrible decision against you will often reap rewards down the line in the shape of better opportunities at titles, sometimes on home turf. Macklin has now got a profile that he probably couldn't have bought even if he had won the WBA belt (I had Sturm the winner by one round, having watched it a second time, incidentally).

re: the macklin sturm fight i had macklin winning but there was about 3 really close arguable rounds but most people went with macklin for them i imagine because he was the aggressor. most people siding with macklin on those rounds has created the whole apparent travesty of a decision, because it was in germany it has been highlighted though i think the decision was unlucky on macklin as most seemed to have him winning but not a robbery like many have suggested.

Whilst agreeing with the sentiment of the article truss its all down to the situation of the fighter. Macklin didn't really deserve his shot, so was right to take whatever came his way, there was no guarantee that another one would come up. A guy earlier in his career with an unbeaten record might be better biding their time.

As it goes Macklin performed better than expected and his star is brighter for it. I also didn't think he was jobbed. From memory, i had him up by a round, but it was a fight of 2 halves.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Welcome to these boards.....

Agree..the last time anyone won on points there was 1945.

It was 1996. Virgil Hill managed a win over Henry Maske.

This has hardly hurt Macklin though. I remember going into the fight most people on here were predicting Macklin to get beat and some were saying stopped.

His stock has surely risen in robbery more than it would in turning down a fight few picked him to win.

I also seem to remember Chris Eubank managing a points win in Berlin against one of the very useful Rocchigiani brothers. It is worth recalling that in some of his title defences in London, Eubank himself got away with some notably dubious decisions, so, much as it ever was, it's a case of swings and roundabouts.

Atila wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Welcome to these boards.....

Agree..the last time anyone won on points there was 1945.

It was 1996. Virgil Hill managed a win over Henry Maske.

I think Truss was referring to WWII. Subtle comedy from the big man, good work!

German boxing should be investigated and past fights probed, particularly the stains which Ottke managed to nick. If any theoretical results of said investigations weren't to turn out well then I'd consider temporarily banning world title fights in Germany. Maybe extreme but is there a better alternative to doing justice?

Fists of Fury wrote:

Atila wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Welcome to these boards.....

Agree..the last time anyone won on points there was 1945.

It was 1996. Virgil Hill managed a win over Henry Maske.

I think Truss was referring to WWII. Subtle comedy from the big man, good work!

I knew he was joking but I didn't think about the war.

Did Johnny Nelson not get a close decision in Germany over a German? I'm sure he mentioned it in the build up to the Macklin fight.

Knowsit17 wrote:German boxing should be investigated and past fights probed, particularly the stains which Ottke managed to nick. If any theoretical results of said investigations weren't to turn out well then I'd consider temporarily banning world title fights in Germany. Maybe extreme but is there a better alternative to doing justice?

then Britain needs investigating on the Cox vs. Sai fight, or America for the Lara vs. Williams.
It just happens every now and then. Those two were much more dubious than the Macklin Sturm fight. But Ottke should definately not have retired with an "0"

There have been some poor decisions in Britain recently with Sai and Prescott in particular getting what seemed like raw deals to me in the last couple of weeks.

There have been some poor decisions in Britain just like other countries.

Fighting away from home is always going to be precarious, the away fighter seems to be down 2-3 rounds down before he even starts.

i always think that fighting a home town fighter you need to be fighting every second of every round to get a decision. macklin, prescott and many more were guilty of letting there workrate slip late on, not saying that means they should lose, but most fighters know that they need a KO or very high work rate to win, and if they let the opponent into the fight even slightly then they could be done over. macklin certainly knew this going into the sturm fight because he was saying exactly that on ringside a few days before.

Prescotts fight was a very close fight it could have gone either way. Think we play some of these up at times.

AlexHuckerby wrote:Prescotts fight was a very close fight it could have gone either way. Think we play some of these up at times.

But it wouldn't have gone either way.

I think a more apt title would be "Should you turn down a title shot in a foriegn nation?".

Personally, I don't think Germany is much worse than anyway else in the current day, including Britain and the States.

Germany isn't as bad as it once was but it's still hard to get a decision there. There has been a few shady ones here and in the states recently too.

I agree with J.Benson II. I dont think Germany is by any means unique either now or in the past. Home scoring will generally favour the home fighter.

I also think that people are quick to use close fights as a robbery. Sturm did not rob Macklin for my money, it was a close fight. Compare that to something like Lara v Williams which was a genuine highway robbery. It happens everywhere but more often in close fights the home fighter will take it on the cards.

It would have been interesting if Froch V Abraham had gone ahead in Germany. Carl got a shut out in Helsinki if i remember, would have been interesting to see the score cards if it had been in Germany. Then again if it had been in Germany Carl might have forced a stoppage instead of playing with him for 12 rounds.

captain carrantuohil wrote:I also seem to remember Chris Eubank managing a points win in Berlin against one of the very useful Rocchigiani brothers. It is worth recalling that in some of his title defences in London, Eubank himself got away with some notably dubious decisions, so, much as it ever was, it's a case of swings and roundabouts.

True, but Eubank was the defending champion, and even then some of the judges had clearly been inluenced by Oktoberfest.

I had Eubank winning nine of twelve rounds, yet one of the judges had it 114-113.

The Galveston Giant wrote:Germany isn't as bad as it once was but it's still hard to get a decision there. There has been a few shady ones here and in the states recently too.

I take this back after Sprott got screwed at the weekend.