Biggest Clubs in the world?

I have been having an on going arguement at work, about this. And was just wondering what other peoples thoughts are.

In my opinion you have to decide why they are big clubs first. Is it tropheys won? or is it Finance? Is it the history of the clubs? Or is it the amount of fans that support them? Is it that they have changed football in some way? or the players that have/do play for them. Or is it the appeal national and worldwide of the club?
Now all these aspects are relevant obviously, but which is the MOST IMPORTANT 2 aspect in your opinion & Why?

The biggest clubs in my opinion are-
Mancheter United,
Liverpool,
Celtic,
Glasgow Rangers,
Barcelona,
Real Madrid,
Juventus,
AC Milan.
This is because the 2 biggest aspects in my opinion are - history & appeal of a club.

But There are so many clubs world wide that could be added. So who would you add ? and do you agree or disagree with who i believe are the worlds biggest clubs?

I am intrested in what other people think, so feel free to contribute your thou

Arsenal have to be there surely? Well run club with a massive history and big worldwide fan base. Won League titles in each of the last four decades. Only thing lacking is a Champions League title.

Inter Milan have got to be there too.

Ajax?

Liam_Main wrote:Ajax?

Great shout. Bayern Munich too.

Personally while i agree that there is an argument to have Arsenal and Bayern Munich, and you could definatly put them in.
Ajax is slightly different, as although they had 2 fantastic periods time as a playing force. And what they have done behind scenes is well known, Would you class them as a big club in world terms, europe yes.
Inter i don't agree with as they are overshadowed by there neighbours, and apart from the last few years they aren't as big compared to the 2 sides i mentioned. And though i value your opinion, i just don't agree with it.

tigerrobins wrote:Personally while i agree that there is an argument to have Arsenal and Bayern Munich, and you could definatly put them in.
Ajax is slightly different, as although they had 2 fantastic periods time as a playing force. And what they have done behind scenes is well known, Would you class them as a big club in world terms, europe yes.
Inter i don't agree with as they are overshadowed by there neighbours, and apart from the last few years they aren't as big compared to the 2 sides i mentioned. And though i value your opinion, i just don't agree with it.

Fair enough point but while Rangers and Celtic are massive teams in their own right how do they make your top 8 above the likes of Inter and Bayern?

I should have put Bayern in, and admit i made a mistake obmiting them.

I put Celtic and Rangers in because in my opinion they fill most of the aspects, They've got the history, they have the world wide appeal (even if it's to do more with the religious aspect),they have the fan bases, they have the trophey's. You could go to most places in the world, and its people would know about them. Which in my opinion makes them massive clubs.

I admit alot of that maybe down to the religious aspect. But then with certain clubs it is only the finanical aspect that means they are known.

And before people start saying about the scottish premier, look at most other leagues. The spanish, Portugese, etc tends to be dominated by only 2 teams, with sometimes a 3rd joining in. Hell the premiership's been like this for the last 8/9 seasons.

Can't argue with any one on the list apart from Juventus. If your having Juve in then Roma need to be in and Inter are miles ahead of both in terms of history and fan base.

I would add a couple more. Bayern Munich are a certainty imo. Bigger club than Juventus, Celtic and Rangers. Biggest club in Germany, the history is their as well.

Another I would add is Benfica. They have the history and the fan base.

The 2 most important aspects are fan base and history.

Juventus are Italys club, and have the biggest fan base in italy.
As i said i should have put Bayern in, and was wrong not to include them.
Benfica i would Class with Ajax, both fantastic clubs, with as you say the history and fan bases behind them. Big clubs in Europe, but are they big world wide? I could be wrong on this, and it is only my opinion.

When looking at these things with a worldwide view as you seem to be doing tigerrobins, you must remember that everything has changed massively in the last 15 or so years because of the internet.
In 1990 if you could have polled people from every country and asked them to name their 10 or 20 biggest clubs the answers would be similar in every country, they'd name those who had European success plus another few English clubs, now it's much more about the brand than anything else.
Success does make a brand better known, but there are so many other factors in marketing a product that clubs like Villa, Celtic, Ajax, PSV, Benfica etc. will no longer be amongst the elite.
Only a very select group have true worldwide appeal, ManU, Liverpool, Real, Barca, Milan, Juve and Bayern, after those 7 clubs you could list another dozen to 20 on a similar footing no matter how successful they are, from Spurs or Arsenal to Roma or Rangers and unless someone spends a couple of billion marketing their club, this is unlikely to change for the foreseeable future.

tigerrobins wrote:I have been having an on going arguement at work, about this. And was just wondering what other peoples thoughts are.

In my opinion you have to decide why they are big clubs first. Is it tropheys won? or is it Finance? Is it the history of the clubs? Or is it the amount of fans that support them? Is it that they have changed football in some way? or the players that have/do play for them. Or is it the appeal national and worldwide of the club?
Now all these aspects are relevant obviously, but which is the MOST IMPORTANT 2 aspect in your opinion & Why?

The biggest clubs in my opinion are-
Mancheter United,
Liverpool,
Celtic,
Glasgow Rangers,
Barcelona,
Real Madrid,
Juventus,
AC Milan.
This is because the 2 biggest aspects in my opinion are - history & appeal of a club.

But There are so many clubs world wide that could be added. So who would you add ? and do you agree or disagree with who i believe are the worlds biggest clubs?

I am intrested in what other people think, so feel free to contribute your thou

By your own criteria how can you include the Old Firm? The only appeal is the 5 or 6 matches they play against each other every season

tigerrobins wrote:Juventus are Italys club, and have the biggest fan base in italy.
As i said i should have put Bayern in, and was wrong not to include them.
Benfica i would Class with Ajax, both fantastic clubs, with as you say the history and fan bases behind them. Big clubs in Europe, but are they big world wide? I could be wrong on this, and it is only my opinion.

Benfica are a very popular club in South America. That would edge it over Ajax imo who would just miss out for me as well.

I wouldn't discard Ajax, a club from a major capital city, with massive history and a list of superstar players produced to boot. For me they're on.

Benfica is Portugal's best shout, I agree. For Italy, Inter need to be included.

For me the two biggest misses are River Plate and Boca Juniors, both massive clubs with huge histories and some of the most fervent support going.

If South American teams are included then Sao Paolo are a certainty and probably one or two clubs from Rio need to be in as well then. Fluminese and Flamengo would be my picks.

I would put the current top ten as...

1. Man Utd
2. Barcelona
3. Real Madrid
4. Liverpool
5. AC Milan
6. Juventus
7. Chelsea
8. Arsenal
9. Inter Milan
10. Bayern Munich

I'm basing this on what I believe the clubs support is not just in their own countries but globally, while Fluminese may be huge in Brazil, are they big in Europe, Africa or the Far East? I would say the ten I've picked are much more of a brand than any club from Brazil etc.

1. Real Madrid
2. Man Utd
3. Barcelona
4. AC Milan
5. Liverpool
6. Bayern Munich
7. Inter Milan
8. Juventus
9T. Celtic
9T. Rangers

Chelsea aren't a big club no one cared before Roman and they have no history of note.

Whilst I agree on that point Kev they are now a globally known team, they have a huge support in Africa through the likes of Drogba, Kalou and Mikel, and have marketed themselves very well on tours around the world in the past 5-6 years.

5-6 years isn't history. I honestly can't see how they go above the biggest and most successful club in Germany in Bayern Munich or one of Italy's big three in Inter Milan.

I just don't consider them a bifg club. A modern day super club. Like Man City are becoming.

But if you ran a global poll of biggest clubs in the world I just couldn't see Chelsea being behind the likes of Rangers, Bayern etc.
I hate that's the case as well but football is very much about the here and now, history should weigh more but it doesn't. Liverpool still get in simply because they're still a global brand.
City will be in the top 10 too within the next couple of years.
When footage of kids in coutries like S.Korea, Nigeria, USA, Japan, Brazil etc etc is shown, which clubs do you see on tshirts and copies of strips?
The ones I mentioned.

I see your point but imo you need to have the history and not just a sugar daddy. Here's my criteria in order of significance.

1. Fan base locally and Worldwide.
2. History
3. Standing in modern football.

With the exception of Celtic and Rangers who can't cope with the financial clout the other teams have. All the other clubs I listed meet the first 2 and most important criteria ahead of Chelsea and Arsenal. Under my criteria if I was to include Chelsea and Arsenal I would need to include Ajax, Benfica and Borrussia Dortmund ahead of them.

prettyboykev wrote:

tigerrobins wrote:Juventus are Italys club, and have the biggest fan base in italy.
As i said i should have put Bayern in, and was wrong not to include them.
Benfica i would Class with Ajax, both fantastic clubs, with as you say the history and fan bases behind them. Big clubs in Europe, but are they big world wide? I could be wrong on this, and it is only my opinion.

Benfica are a very popular club in South America. That would edge it over Ajax imo who would just miss out for me as well.

I didn't know that about Benfica. And it certainly raises them higher, but they still wouldn't make it onto my list.

sodhat wrote:I wouldn't discard Ajax, a club from a major capital city, with massive history and a list of superstar players produced to boot. For me they're on.

Benfica is Portugal's best shout, I agree. For Italy, Inter need to be included.

For me the two biggest misses are River Plate and Boca Juniors, both massive clubs with huge histories and some of the most fervent support going.

I agree about Boca certainly, espically for the reasons you have put, the only other sth american club in my opinion who would warrent a place on any list is Santos.

Due to the significance of signing Shunsuke Nakamura and also holding a charity game for the Japanese Earthquake victims, it's reportes that there is as many as 7m Celtic fans in Japan alone, add that to the incredible amount in North America and Austrailia then I'd expect Celtic in terms of size and history to be in the top 15

Man Utd
Real Madrid
AC Milan
Barcelona
Bayern Munich
Liverpool
Juventus
Inter Milan
Celtic
Rangers
Arsenal
Ajax
Benfica
Porto
Brussia Dortmund

the-gaffer wrote:Due to the significance of signing Shunsuke Nakamura and also holding a charity game for the Japanese Earthquake victims, it's reportes that there is as many as 7m Celtic fans in Japan alone

I'd take that with a dollop of salt.

tigerrobins wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

tigerrobins wrote:Juventus are Italys club, and have the biggest fan base in italy.
As i said i should have put Bayern in, and was wrong not to include them.
Benfica i would Class with Ajax, both fantastic clubs, with as you say the history and fan bases behind them. Big clubs in Europe, but are they big world wide? I could be wrong on this, and it is only my opinion.

Benfica are a very popular club in South America. That would edge it over Ajax imo who would just miss out for me as well.

I didn't know that about Benfica. And it certainly raises them higher, but they still wouldn't make it onto my list.

They just missed out on my top 10 along with Ajax, Borrussia Dortmund and Roma.

the-gaffer wrote:Due to the significance of signing Shunsuke Nakamura and also holding a charity game for the Japanese Earthquake victims, it's reportes that there is as many as 7m Celtic fans in Japan alone, add that to the incredible amount in North America and Austrailia then I'd expect Celtic in terms of size and history to be in the top 15

Man Utd
Real Madrid
AC Milan
Barcelona
Bayern Munich
Liverpool
Juventus
Inter Milan
Celtic
Rangers
Arsenal
Ajax
Benfica
Porto
Brussia Dortmund

Don't be silly. I doubt there are 7m people in Japan who have ever heard of Glasgow, let alone Celtic, and certainly nowhere near that many who would call themselves "fans".

In the days when the OF were "something" in Europe (a very long time ago) there might have been a lot of "fans" of an expatriate, ancestor or lineage nature which could loosely be described as a "worldwide following", but they are hardly "fans" or supporters, they are just people who look out for their results in the paper or who take in the occasional match in a pub somewhere.
Celtic and Rangers are however you want to look at it, insignificant teams in the world sense.

Hey, the bangers back.

Bringing depression to the 606 masses since January 29th 2011!

super_realist wrote:

the-gaffer wrote:Due to the significance of signing Shunsuke Nakamura and also holding a charity game for the Japanese Earthquake victims, it's reportes that there is as many as 7m Celtic fans in Japan alone, add that to the incredible amount in North America and Austrailia then I'd expect Celtic in terms of size and history to be in the top 15

Man Utd
Real Madrid
AC Milan
Barcelona
Bayern Munich
Liverpool
Juventus
Inter Milan
Celtic
Rangers
Arsenal
Ajax
Benfica
Porto
Brussia Dortmund

Don't be silly. I doubt there are 7m people in Japan who have ever heard of Glasgow, let alone Celtic, and certainly nowhere near that many who would call themselves "fans".

In the days when the OF were "something" in Europe (a very long time ago) there might have been a lot of "fans" of an expatriate, ancestor or lineage nature which could loosely be described as a "worldwide following", but they are hardly "fans" or supporters, they are just people who look out for their results in the paper or who take in the occasional match in a pub somewhere.
Celtic and Rangers are however you want to look at it, insignificant teams in the world sense.

That's how when they go on tour in Asia, America, Canada or Australia they pull big crowds. Something doesn't quite add up. They may not have the money but they are still massive clubs.

Big crowds are not because they are Celtic or Rangers though, it's just because they are foreign teams. In past years when both teams had some decent players I could see the attraction, but not now.
Give it a few years when they realise that Celtic and Rangers are no longer getting into Europe and are no more successful than Accrington Stanley and no one will turn up to watch that drivel.
It's all very well if you are a long suffering fan who turns up through loyalty, (although judging by the empty seats at Parkhead for the "Europe" match they are already deserting) , but foreigners with no attachment to the club are hardly going to continue parting with their hard earned to watch that dross and deadbeat, no mark players.

Big clubs? Once upon a time, but not anymore.

Alright then mate there not big clubs so who are then? Give me your top 10...

Man United.
Barcelona
Real Madrid
Bayern Munich
AC Milan
Inter
Liverpool
Arsenal
Lyon
Juventus.


I suppose it depends on how you categorise the term "biggest" but I would consider the influence a team to be important, and the OF wield practically none, so in addition to the teams above I'd also put the likes of Spurs, Everton, Ajax, Dortmund, PSG, Benfica, Porto, Marseille, Bordeux, Stuttgart, Athletico some way ahead of them.
I get the feeling that the OF have a lot of people who consider themselves "supporters" because of a tenuous link, however they've no link to the club, so doesn't really make the club any bigger. They have no money, few decent players, no European standing and virtually no chance of making any inroads in that area in the near future.
Both clubs are relatively well supported, just like Leeds are, but I wouldn't consider them a big club anymore.

super_realist wrote:Man United.
Barcelona
Real Madrid
Bayern Munich
AC Milan
Inter
Liverpool
Arsenal
Lyon
Juventus.


I suppose it depends on how you categorise the term "biggest" but I would consider the influence a team to be important, and the OF wield practically none, so in addition to the teams above I'd also put the likes of Spurs, Everton, Ajax, Dortmund, PSG, Benfica, Porto, Marseille, Bordeux, Stuttgart, Athletico some way ahead of them.
I get the feeling that the OF have a lot of people who consider themselves "supporters" because of a tenuous link, however they've no link to the club, so doesn't really make the club any bigger. They have no money, few decent players, no European standing and virtually no chance of making any inroads in that area in the near future.
Both clubs are relatively well supported, just like Leeds are, but I wouldn't consider them a big club anymore.

The teams in bold aren't bigger than the Old Firm. Was Spurs a joke?

The old firm have massive fan bases and a decorated history. I said in my top ten above for me it comes down to three main things.

1. Fan base
2. History
3. Standing in modern football. (this is the least important of the three given the standing of Chelsea who no one really cared about before Roman.)

The Old Firm tick the top 2 boxes pretty comfortably.

Aye, Keep dreaming, I actually would have agreed with you ten years ago, but I can't really see why history is that important, especially as most of the OF's history is entrenched in one of Europe's worst leagues. Hardly something worthy of note. Would you like to put Aston Villa and Nottingham Forest in there too? After all, they've won better leagues than the OF and have been more successful in Europe more recently.

Spurs are certainly bigger than either of the Old Firm these days.

super_realist wrote:Aye, Keep dreaming, I actually would have agreed with you ten years ago, but I can't really see why history is that important, especially as most of the OF's history is entrenched in one of Europe's worst leagues. Hardly something worthy of note. Would you like to put Aston Villa and Nottingham Forest in there too? After all, they've won better leagues than the OF and have been more successful in Europe more recently.

Spurs are certainly bigger than either of the Old Firm these days.

Probably part of the reason that Scottish Football won't move on Kev, you are still under the dillusion that you are big clubs, and by default better than many others that you clearly aren't.

Scottish football has many more bigger problems than Old Firm fans supposedly over rating how big there clubs are.

I'm not saying either have a better team than Spurs that would be almost as daft as saying Spurs are bigger team than either of the Old Firm!

Spurs have more money but not either of the Old Firms history or fan base.

I still don't see why history matters or how it makes your club "big" and what is so remarkable about the history of the OF.

As for the fan base, where were they the other night?, one of the last European matches they'll see for years and hardly any turned up.

Europa League group stages have always been treated with contempt by both halves of the Old Firm.

As for one of the last games in Europe we will see in years. You clearly know nothing about Scottish football then because the top 2 qualify for Europe every season.

They only qualify for the qualification rounds, and in all honesty can you see them getting past those in future?

I don't see the OF domestic records as being any better than Rosenborg or Skonta Riga.

Mate you are mental. Before the Premier league in 1992 most English teams regularly bought players from Scotland. The Scottish league was strong through the 60's, 70's and 80's. Celtic and Rangers dominated it and both won European honours.

Just because they don't play in one of the big leagues doesn't mean they are small clubs. If you don't see that as any better than some Scandinavian Mickey Muse clubs then you my friend know nothing about football.

Just a small question, only Tigerrobins has put Juventus above AC Milan, which isn't really something expecting so I was wondering why people put AC Milan above Juventus?

A.C are Italy's biggest club that's pretty much a fact. Juve are a big club but I would have both Milan clubs above them. Juve struggle for crowds at times. that's something you can't really level at the Milan giants.

Well, you just said it "just because they don't play in the big leagues, doesn't mean they "AREN'T" small clubs.

I agree, they are small clubs now, but have only become so in the last 5-6 seasons.

What makes you think you are bigger than "mickey mouse Scandinavian" clubs. One of those "mickey mouse Scandinavian" clubs just sent Rangers packing out of the CL with consumate ease.
These mickey mouse teams (Gothenburg) have also won European honours. Red Star Belgrade and Steaua Bucureşti also won the European Cup, big teams are they?

So what if English teams buy players from Scotland (or did pre EPL), they've also bought a lot of players from league which are also as weak as the SPL. Think of all the Dutch, Belgian and Scandinavian players that have ended up there. Doesn't mean the leagues from which they came are good, just means that the occasional player is produced. Even now players like Obi Mikkel, Risse, Carew, Solskjaer, Ljungberg, Flo, etc etc have signed from "Mickey Mouse" Scandinavian Clubs

That's the big problem with the OF, or Scotland in general, they can't move forward because they are too busy living in the past.

Mate your nothing more than a WUM and a poor one at that goodbye!

I see you can't really argue with the points though.
Scotland have no more European honours than Sweden (who you refer to as Mickey Mouse) So there goes your history element for determining whether that makes you a big team.

I actually can't believe you have tried to say Lyon, Everton, Bordeaux and Marseille are bigger than Celtic and Rangers.

Get your head out of your backside mate

super_realist wrote:I see you can't really argue with the points though.
Scotland have no more European honours than Sweden (who you refer to as Mickey Mouse) So there goes your history element for determining whether that makes you a big team.

How many European cups have Swedish teams won? Answers on the back of a postcard please.

Just another point Carew wasn't signed from the Swedish league like you said in one of your previous posts.

It's a shame we don't have a clown smilie!

prettyboykev wrote:A.C are Italy's biggest club that's pretty much a fact. Juve are a big club but I would have both Milan clubs above them. Juve struggle for crowds at times. that's something you can't really level at the Milan giants.

Have Juventus' crowds not improved since they were able to rebuild the Stadio delle Alpi/Juventus Staidum? (I actually don't know the answer to this question.) It's ok to say they have had small crowds during recent years, but if you look at the fact they were playing in the Stadio Olimpico di Torino which has a capacity of 28,000 then what attendances can you expect? Also Juventus are actually recognised as being the most supported club with in Italy. If history matters then Juventus are an older club than both AC and Inter milan, have only had 1 season out of the Italian top flight and are Italy's most successful club.

Derbyblue wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:A.C are Italy's biggest club that's pretty much a fact. Juve are a big club but I would have both Milan clubs above them. Juve struggle for crowds at times. that's something you can't really level at the Milan giants.

Have Juventus' crowds not improved since they were able to rebuild the Stadio delle Alpi/Juventus Staidum? (I actually don't know the answer to this question.) It's ok to say they have had small crowds during recent years, but if you look at the fact they were playing in the Stadio Olimpico di Torino which has a capacity of 28,000 then what attendances can you expect? Also Juventus are actually recognised as being the most supported club with in Italy. If history matters then Juventus are an older club than both AC and Inter milan, have only had 1 season out of the Italian top flight and are Italy's most successful club.

Also a horrible club that buys refs putting a black mark next to there whole history. You are right though there crowds have improved but still not on a par with the Milan clubs.