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Singapore GP race results - yet another controversial incident

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Post by Fernando Sun 25 Sep 2011, 3:54 pm

Sebastian Vettel moved to the brink of a second title by winning the Singapore Grand Prix, but Jenson Button's runner-up finish meant the German was one point shy of the championship lead he required to wrap things up for 2011.

Vettel utterly dominated the majority of the race. The Red Bull man was a second per lap faster than his pursuers at first, and though the pack closed up with a mid-race safety car after Michael Schumacher clipped Sergio Perez and was launched into a violent accident - from which he emerged unhurt - Vettel had a cushion of backmarkers behind him at the restart and was eight seconds clear again after just one lap.

McLaren driver Button started closing in with some very rapid late laps, but Vettel always appeared to have everything under control as he clinched his ninth win of the season.

Button had claimed second with a quick start, while Vettel's front row partner team-mate Mark Webber got away slowly. Lewis Hamilton challenged Webber down the inside in the second McLaren but ran out of space and fell as low as eighth, while Fernando Alonso took his Ferrari around the outside of everyone to grab third from fifth on the grid.

Webber twice passed Alonso on the road, having to get back ahead after the Ferrari reclaimed third in the first pitstops following an on-track exchange. But a bold dive into the Turn 10 chicane amid traffic on the restart lap secured Webber's third place and he pulled away thereafter.

Hamilton had a highly eventful run to fifth. He quickly recovered from being wrong-footed on the first lap but then clipped Felipe Massa while racing with the Ferrari immediately after the first stops. The McLaren picked up both wing damage and a penalty, while Massa was left with a puncture.

A fightback charge from Hamilton took him from a post-drive-through 15th to fifth in the end, helped by the safety car closing him onto the lead pack again. A string of DRS passes got him back into the top five, though having to pit for another set of tyres while those behind him did not meant Hamilton had to make a lot of his moves twice before his top five finish was secure.

Paul di Resta secured the best result of his Formula 1 career so far in sixth for Force India. A very long first stint and the ability to make his second and final stop just as the safety car came out got him ahead of Mercedes' Nico Rosberg and the second Force India of Adrian Sutil.

Massa fell to 20th following the clash with Hamilton, before clawing his way back through to salvage some points in ninth.

Perez's Sauber was undamaged in the incident with Schumacher, which happened when the Mercedes was coming back through after a pitstop, and he finished 10th.
PROVISIONAL RACE RESULTS

The Singapore Grand Prix
Singapore, Singapore;
61 laps; 309.087km;
Weather: Dry.

Classified:

Pos Driver Team Time
1. Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1h59:06.537
2. Button McLaren-Mercedes + 1.737
3. Webber Red Bull-Renault + 29.279
4. Alonso Ferrari + 55.449
5. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes + 1:07.766
6. Di Resta Force India-Mercedes + 1:51.067
7. Rosberg Mercedes + 1 lap
8. Sutil Force India-Mercedes + 1 lap
9. Massa Ferrari + 1 lap
10. Perez Sauber-Ferrari + 1 lap
11. Maldonado Williams-Cosworth + 1 lap
12. Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari + 1 lap
13. Barrichello Williams-Cosworth + 1 lap
14. Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari + 2 laps
15. Senna Renault + 2 laps
16. Kovalainen Lotus-Renault + 2 laps
17. Petrov Renault + 2 laps
18. D'Ambrosio Virgin-Cosworth + 2 laps
19. Ricciardo HRT-Cosworth + 4 laps
20. Liuzzi HRT-Cosworth + 4 laps
21. Alguersuari Toro Rosso-Ferrari + 5 laps

Fastest lap: Button, 1:48.454

Not classified/retirements:

Driver Team On lap
Trulli Lotus-Renault 48
Schumacher Mercedes 29
Glock Virgin-Cosworth 10


World Championship standings, round 14:

Drivers: Constructors:
1. Vettel 309 1. Red Bull-Renault 491
2. Button 185 2. McLaren-Mercedes 353
3. Alonso 184 3. Ferrari 268
4. Webber 182 4. Mercedes 114
5. Hamilton 168 5. Renault 70
6. Massa 84 6. Force India-Mercedes 48
7. Rosberg 62 7. Sauber-Ferrari 36
8. Schumacher 52 8. Toro Rosso-Ferrari 29
9. Heidfeld 34 9. Williams-Cosworth 5
10. Petrov 34
11. Sutil 28
12. Kobayashi 27
13. Di Resta 20
14. Alguersuari 16
15. Buemi 13
16. Perez 9
17. Barrichello 4
18. Senna 2
19. Maldonado 1

source: autosport

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Post by monty junior Sun 25 Sep 2011, 4:20 pm

very good races from Vettel,Button and Di Resta

Another stupid mistake from Hamilton.

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Post by Critical_mass Sun 25 Sep 2011, 4:44 pm

A racing incident and another stupid decision from the stewards. Over reaction from Massa

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Post by Alessandro Ciambella Sun 25 Sep 2011, 5:25 pm

Bonjourno!

Hamilton ruined Massa's race. If there had been no puncture and Massa could of continued then there would not have been a problem.

This was not the case. Another wreckless overtake that deserved to be punished correctly by the stewards.

You cant seriously defend this.


On another note, Jenson Button MBE did remarkable today to make a fist of it with Vettel. Jenson Button MBE dragged his Mclaren kicking and screaming to try and catch Vettel who has the fastest car on the grid. A shame that he needed 2 more laps to get right on his tail. But credit where its due, Vettel was in a class of his own today, with Button just behind.

Having the fastest car on the grid is one thing. Knowing how to use it is quite another. Just ask Webber!

Congratulations to Vettel. Driver of the day.

Forza Alonso!
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Post by Critical_mass Sun 25 Sep 2011, 5:54 pm

Im defending it because roles reveresed it would be put down as a racing incident, just like lewis and webber last year. DO you get why some of us are defending this?????

Only the blind, stupid or seriously blinkered can say there is consistancy within F1 regarding punishments.

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Post by Belgarion of Riva Sun 25 Sep 2011, 5:59 pm

monty junior wrote:very good races from Vettel,Button and Di Resta

Another stupid mistake from Hamilton.

Can't really argue with this statement. If Lewis was patient he could have got a podium today. No sympathy for Massa though, he lost any respect I had for him last season. He plays wingman for Alonso, I wonder why he's complaining. He's only there to make up the numbers or take points from Alonso's rivals

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Post by Critical_mass Sun 25 Sep 2011, 6:03 pm

I dont think impatience had anything to do with it. He saw he couldnt get passed Massa that time and wasnt down the side of him. He misjudged the gap between the front of his car and massa's

Massa is almost purposely making a big deal out of incidents now, he cant win races anymore so he's going to cause a fuss elsewhere. Just so happens its lewis hamilton who's getting it.

Pure childish and unprofessional with his reaction when lewis was being interviewed. He soon scarpered! He should have pulled him later if he wanted to talk about it

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Post by Belgarion of Riva Sun 25 Sep 2011, 6:19 pm

Critical_mass wrote:I dont think impatience had anything to do with it. He saw he couldnt get passed Massa that time and wasnt down the side of him. He misjudged the gap between the front of his car and massa's

Massa is almost purposely making a big deal out of incidents now, he cant win races anymore so he's going to cause a fuss elsewhere. Just so happens its lewis hamilton who's getting it.

Pure childish and unprofessional with his reaction when lewis was being interviewed. He soon scarpered! He should have pulled him later if he wanted to talk about it

Lewis had the pace mate, that's why I feel he could have waited a little bit. Overtaking Felipe is dangerous. Felipe is finished in this sport and when he's not laying down and letting Alonso ride him, he's playing bumper cars with Alonso's rivals. He offers nothing else. That's why Ferrari are letting Perez and co test their cars.

His behaviour today was childish, he's forgotten his role in a variety of 'questionable incidents'.



Last edited by Belgarion of Riva on Mon 26 Sep 2011, 12:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Critical_mass Sun 25 Sep 2011, 6:23 pm

I think thats exactly what lewis did though. i dont think his mistake was going for a move that wasnt going to happen. But rather allowing himself to get too close to massa when turning into the corner.

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Post by monty junior Sun 25 Sep 2011, 7:33 pm

To be fair if Massa hadn't got a puncture it probably would have just been left. However even in qualifying Lewis was questionable towards Felipe with that overtake messing his lap up and again here is another example of him compromising others as well as himself. Its race after race, fair enough Massa maybe overeacted but its not like he's doing it for no reason, Hamilton needs to learn f1 isn't dodgems, you see nobody else even remotely close to the controversy he causes race after race ,which is a shame as he's very good.

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Post by Scott is Back Mon 26 Sep 2011, 8:49 am

I cant help but feel there is an inconsistency in the way Hamilton is treated though, yes he makes mistakes, and yes he does create controversy, but he seems to get punished for the sake of being punished now. He is a Racer, one of very few on the grid and unfortunatly i think Racing is no longer a part of F1.

Can you really tell me that to succeed in F1 you need to be fearless in manoeuvres, be quick and aggressive and keep going for the win? I dont believe that anymore, i think you need to be smooth and conserve your tyres and hope you dont get stuck behind someone like Massa he seems to want to take it dry for Alonso, and hinder other peoples races than push for his own.

Its becoming more and more of a farce, im not saying lewis is blameless, im just saying its no longer an even playing field. Whether its his race or otherwise, i believe he is being discriminated.

& Please for the love of god can people stop banging on about Button making the most overtakes this season....there is a reason for that......there are cars in front of him, you dont see Vettel having to overtake!

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Post by Alessandro Ciambella Mon 26 Sep 2011, 9:12 am

Bonjourno!

Jenson Button MBE, with all those clean over takes has rewritten the book on how to complete a manouver without incident. He has overtaken Ferraris, Red Bulls and the other Mclaren along with the rest of the grid without causing contraversy. A real racer some might say.

Hamilton should have a read.

Forza Alonso!
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Post by Scott is Back Mon 26 Sep 2011, 9:34 am

I agree, he is a wonderful overtaker, done it to many cars, all across the grid.....Mainly because he doesnt postition himself on the front two slots of the grid....?

Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel & Webber seem to have Qualifying down to a fine art too.....Maybe Jensen should pay attention to that, and wouldnt need to perform so many overtaking maneouvres.

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Post by Belgarion of Riva Mon 26 Sep 2011, 11:32 am

Scott is Back wrote:I agree, he is a wonderful overtaker, done it to many cars, all across the grid.....Mainly because he doesnt postition himself on the front two slots of the grid....?

Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel & Webber seem to have Qualifying down to a fine art too.....Maybe Jensen should pay attention to that, and wouldnt need to perform so many overtaking maneouvres.

Great riposte mate.


Alessandro maybe Jenson Button MBE should read his team mates' Lewis Hamilton MBEs qualifying record as well. Whistle

Half of Button's overtakes came from his awesome drive in Canada. The new rules and tyre conservation exercise suits Button down to the ground.

Let's see where everyone stands at the end of the season. We've got some great tracks on the horizon.


Last edited by Belgarion of Riva on Mon 26 Sep 2011, 12:56 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Inserted proper titles for the Mclaren Dynamic Duo)

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Post by dyrewolfe Mon 26 Sep 2011, 3:26 pm

@Garion:

Before you get too cocky about their respective qualifying records, I would remind you Button started ahead of Hamilton this time (yes Lewis got a puncture and decided not to risk another set, but we don't know he'd have beaten Button's time).

Also, you don't get points for qualifying - its where you finish the race that counts.

Last but by no means least, Button had a reputation for not being able to race and pass people. He's pretty much blown that myth to pieces.


Belgarion of Riva wrote:Half of Button's overtakes came from his awesome drive in Canada. The new rules and tyre conservation exercise suits Button down to the ground.

So tell me how he was able to win a world championship 2 years ago before the current rules were in place? Don't forget it only took Red Bull half a season to catch up with Brawn on the technical side.
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Post by Guest Mon 26 Sep 2011, 3:33 pm

dyrewolf - what you have to understand is that jenson button finds himself racing at a time which suits his driving style to a tee. he has been able to blow the myth that he couldnt overtake to pieces thanks primarily to DRS. Jenson Button struggled immensely last season when in the midfield as he lacked the aggressiveness, risk taking nature and general overtaking ability to make moves on slower cars. An example was Button trying to pass Petrov in Hungary last season where he failed lap after lap. DRS has given Button along with the Pirelli tyres the opportunity to compete and beat driver who are faster than him. Secondly Button was able to win a world title thanks to the double diffuser and a seriously weak rubens. Button won 6/7 races before the half way point so it showed the superiorty and advantage he had over the field. As soon as Mclaren/Red Bull caught up Button failed to win another race all season and stuggled over the line.

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Post by dyrewolfe Mon 26 Sep 2011, 3:35 pm

Critical_mass wrote:I think thats exactly what lewis did though. i dont think his mistake was going for a move that wasnt going to happen. But rather allowing himself to get too close to massa when turning into the corner.

Not quite. He bailed out of his overtake on Massa, but just cut in behind him too close. Either didn't or couldn't slow quickly enough (maybe his brakes were fading).

Schumacher did something similar with Perez. He was shaping up to pass, but then Perez braked before he expected him to and his Mercedes ended up getting acquianted the back of the Sauber, before going into the wall.

I don't really see what was controversial about it. Seems a straightforward misjudgement on Lewis' part...though I can understand why Massa is probably feeling victimised after their previous scrapes.

Anyway, Hammy drove a great race after serving his drive-though to finish 5th. We saw both sides of Lewis Hamilton in Singapore, both the impetuous (or maybe slightly frustrated) driver who makes costly errors and the hard-charging speed demon. Its a real shame as without that penalty, he'd have had a good shot at Alonso for 4th and maybe even Webber for a podium.
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Post by Critical_mass Tue 27 Sep 2011, 11:19 am

It certainly wasnt a "move that was never goign to happen" as some people are suggesting, such as the likes of Andrew Benson.

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Post by Belgarion of Riva Tue 27 Sep 2011, 10:12 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:@Garion:

Before you get too cocky about their respective qualifying records, I would remind you Button started ahead of Hamilton this time (yes Lewis got a puncture and decided not to risk another set, but we don't know he'd have beaten Button's time).

Also, you don't get points for qualifying - its where you finish the race that counts.

Last but by no means least, Button had a reputation for not being able to race and pass people. He's pretty much blown that myth to pieces.


Belgarion of Riva wrote:Half of Button's overtakes came from his awesome drive in Canada. The new rules and tyre conservation exercise suits Button down to the ground.

So tell me how he was able to win a world championship 2 years ago before the current rules were in place? Don't forget it only took Red Bull half a season to catch up with Brawn on the technical side.

He won the championship as a result of the Blown diffuser. Even Barichello was winning races with the Brawn car, says it all really.

Button's a good driver, I think he's better than Vettel but he's got nothing on Alonso and Hamilton.

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Post by Alessandro Ciambella Tue 27 Sep 2011, 11:19 pm

Bonjourno!

Jenson Button MBE has nothing on Hamilton? He is beating him in the WDC! Do you turn the TV off as soon as Hamilton has compromised his and somebody else's race and miss the facts at the end in the form of results and tables.

Jenson Button MBE's skills in car development management go far beyond Hamiltons as he lacks maturity to drive sensibly and consistently to give his team data to develop the package. Unlike Mr silky smooth Jenson Button MBE!
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Post by Belgarion of Riva Wed 28 Sep 2011, 1:54 pm

Alessandro Ciambella wrote:Bonjourno!

Jenson Button MBE has nothing on Hamilton? He is beating him in the WDC! Do you turn the TV off as soon as Hamilton has compromised his and somebody else's race and miss the facts at the end in the form of results and tables.

Jenson Button MBE's skills in car development management go far beyond Hamiltons as he lacks maturity to drive sensibly and consistently to give his team data to develop the package. Unlike Mr silky smooth Jenson Button MBE!

My apologies, Alonso has got nothing on Hamilton, Hamilton beat him in the WDC. The form of results and tables clearly showed this in 2007. Hamilton's immature driving scared Alonso that he ran away from Mclaren and chose not to compete.

Hamilton has also beaten Alonso more times than Alonso has also beaten him. 3-1 I believe, using the WDC form of results and tables. He has also beaten button 4-0. Maybe 5 by the end of the season.

The form of results and tables tell the whole story. Thank you for pointing that out Alessandro. Doh

Lewis Hamilton MBE is indeed a Legend in F1, the only driver to have beaten a double world champion in his rookie season and has never been beaten by a team mate.

Achtung Hamilton!!

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Post by SteveG Wed 28 Sep 2011, 5:16 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
Last but by no means least, Button had a reputation for not being able to race and pass people. He's pretty much blown that myth to pieces.
No. Button is basically taking full advantage of the what F1 is now all about - an exercise in tyre mangement. As someone has already pointed out F1 is not much about racing anymore. One of the greatest requirements in F1 - apart from having to be very very fast (as Hamilton is) is the ability to overtake - this is where Hamilton excelled as a racer however F1's once most difficult requirement - and Hamiltons greatest asset has been totally neutralised by tyre degradation and DRS.

This new (IMO pussyfied) era in F1 is perfect for Button as it plays to his strengths. He looks after his tyres and times his passes on those on shot tyres perfectly (eg Schumi at Monza) -and there's the DRS of course. The opposite is so for Hamilton who is really struggling on the tyre front. Singapore was a perfect example - the original 2 stop plan had to be abandoned almost immediately after dicing with the Mercs. After getting onto the back of Massa his race engineer indicated that they were half way thru the tyre window - one lap later he was in the pits. No good.

Buttons trend of hanging back and hoping for events to unfold in his favour (Monaco) - as opposed to using agression to force the issue is not the type of racing for me. But he is currently outperforming his teamate so I'll wisely save that argument for another day.

And one last point - it seems to me that there are now certain drivers who - when they see THAT yellow helmet in their mirrors - will place their car where maybe they wouldnt if it were someone else.

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Post by Guest Wed 28 Sep 2011, 7:28 pm

SteveG I couldnt agree more

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