Respect to Namibia.

First topic message reminder :

I was watching Namibia play their 4th test match against yet another very tough opponent in only 17 days, in their run on 15 for this match there are only 6 players making a living on rugby, and the only player that can be seen playing for a truly professional high quality outfit is Jacques Burger the Namibian captain.

The truth is that a minnow team such as Namibia, who has only been established in 1990 and with roughly a 1000 amateur rugby players in the country realistically has no chance of beating any teams in their pool, the fact that they have qualified by beating Tunisia for the Africa 1 qualifying spot for the first time in their history is testament to the challenges they face.

The truth is that Namibia does not have the resources to finance professional rugby as more than 50% of the population are unemployed and an even larger number lives off the land and informal businesses.

I think it is only appropriate that we don our caps to this team who has not once complained about their schedule, but was only too happy to be involved in this world cup.

It took Fiji 40 minutes to get their bonus point try against Namibia in their first outing,Namibia scored 25 points against Fiji scoring 2 tries of their own, and kept Fiji to scoring only 2 tries in the second half.

By the time Namibia had to face Samoa only 4 days later, it took Samoa 54 minutes before they could secure their bonus point try, and once again Namibia showed their guts and determination to score two tries in the last twenty minutes.

Even though Namibia had 8 days before their clash with the springboks it was clear that as a mainly amateur team, 3 matches on 13 days would simply be too much for them.

Today only 4 days after the routing by South Africa, Namibia stood tall in their encounter with a Welsh team who saw 11 changes, but were still able to rack up 12 tries. In the first half Wales were their own worst enemy with every forward more interested in getting ball in hand, rather than stick to structured rugby by securing the breakdowns before running the ball. This doesn’t take away from the fact that Namibia competed at every breakdown with gusto. It took Wales 46 minutes to score their bonus point try, and during the last 20 when Namibia was playing with 14 men most of the time due to a yellow card and then due to injury Wales managed to run in the rest of their tries scoring 6 tries during this time. Namibia also socred a beautiful try from an intercept.

Here is the details of the run on 15 of today’s match.

Chrysander Antonio Botha - Club: Kudu’s Namibia
Danie van Wyk - Club: unknown
Willem Petrus van Zyl - Clubs: Bourgoin-Jallieu, Free State, Namibia
Darryl Pierce de la Harpe - Club: Western Suburbs Namibia
Hendrik Daniel Petrus Dames - Clubs: Leopards, South Africa
Theuns Andries Willem Kotze - Clubs: unknown
Eugene Anthony Jantjies - Club: Romanian side Farul Constanţa
Johannes Hermanus Redelinghuys - Clubs: unknown
Hugo Horn - Club: Rotherham Titans, England
Johannes Albertus du Toit - Clubs: Boland Cavaliers, South Africa
Heinz Koll - Club: Wanderers, Namibia
Nico Esterhuize - Club: unknown
Tinus du Plessis - Current club: Wanderers, Namibia
Jacques Burger - Clubs: Saracens, England
Jacques Nieuwenhuis - Clubs: unknown


Yes the sad fact is that Namibia cannot compete with these teams, but rather than looking at the score lines of these one sided affairs, it is notable that they played with honour, guts and determination, showing us all why we do play and love this game so much.

So for all those naysayers that is advocating less teams in the pool rounds, wake up and respect these minnow nations, if not for their competitiveness, but then at least for their love of the game and the honour it is for them to represent their countries on the biggest stage of world rugby.

i think its a tough one to gauge(do we let the minnows in)- will massive beatings help the country prduce more players or not.. its certainly up for debate.

the players deserve to play in the world cup- but will it help in the long run?

mystiroakey wrote:i think we are getting abit ott if we cant have a laugh about funny sounding names(to us) thats just having a sense of humour, maybe a little bit bad taste but not really worth worrying about- would you lot care if aload of yanks lauged at some of our cricket players and called them a picnic(mustard,onions,etc)

"Since '87 the standard of rugby in tier 2 nations such as Canada, Italy, Romania has actually regressed."

well i believe that italy is miles better than it was and that is due to plaing in tournys year in year out(6n;s)

I don't think ti has regressed but professionalism has caused some areas to progress exponentially.....international rugby still very much favours the top tier and PN cup and inclusion of Argentina in a SH comp will narrow gap

its time for the tri nations to not just include argentina but also figi and somoa.

also maybe have the 6 nations every other year and have a euro cup the other..

aitchw wrote:You grow the game one step at a time, help teh nations taht have a chance of devleoping a professional structure and consolidate them as cometitive forces ...then move on to integrating new ones.

That's one way I guess but wrong in one major respect IMO. Rugby Union has always been grounded in large numbers of amateur players and their local clubs. It is a sport which still has it's roots in the amateur clubs of old. You need the schools and other organisations promoting it and it's ethics. In a world of wendy ball attitudes our sport stands out and so it should. Rugby is being recognised as being a bit special and is a major reason why it is growing in very diverse societies and that's where the emphasis should be. If you have a potential audience of thousands because they play or have played the game you maybe then have the basis to build a new and ultimately professional force in rugby. The tier 3 and 4 nations deserve their moment in the spotlight, they've earned it and acts as a catalyst back home. If you develop the game in new countries based purely on the professional game we will see the end of most of what I value in our sport.

So far it has survived the transition to professionalism, I don't want that to change.

Yes but most of the minnow nations dont have a large number of ameture clubs and strong schools rugby culture, thats the point. By concentarting one countries with player numbers in the hundreds and little or no public interest ior awareness you are diverting resources from those like Georgia where there is a genuine interest in rugby from the public and a relaistic chance of translating that into a serious domestic set up. Even Italy is still struggling with this, and look at Scotland. Lets not screw over the nations that have a chance of building the game in the vain hoping of forcing it on countries who arent even that interested and will never be able to sustain the game without massive welfare (at the cost of the other unions, most of whome are barely solvent).
If the nations are goign to comepte and not going to take part in embaressingly one sidesd comeptitions they need to be training fuand playing full time as professionals, the ameture ethos is great and should underpin the professional structure of course...youll never get the culture and playter numebrs feeding through without it. But again..yiou need that culture first, you cant just impose it on a place. You then need to build a viable professional game on top with enough investment and income generated to fund quality extranal coaches coming in to see real improvements in the play. Theres some countries where the reosurces and time it woudl take to do this are enormous, its just not sensible to be investing there.
Im all for spreading the game, but trying to do it beyond its means is counter productive. The world cup has been damaged by the inclussion of the 5th pot teams, and the biggest losers are the 3rd and 4th pot ones...the very teams the IRB should be focussing its very limited resources on. Which is another point, peopel seem to beleive that theres infinite an infinite pot of money that the IRB swim in and dont know what to do with, that they ride gold covered elephants and only eat tesco finest range sandwiches for lunch. In reality the domestic game in most of the big 9 nations is virtualy bankrupt, its rugby is dying in places like Scotland.
Sevens is a much better gateway sport for the spread of the game into the real minnows, much easier to field teams for and cheaper for a start and not requirin the mountrous props and second rows required to play 15's. High profile scalps ( like the ones mentioned for Kenya) are fairly common, the Cook Islands beat England not long ago. Id rather see the IRB continue to support that side of things ( which they do masively) than try and cram in no hopers and leaches into the world cup just for "interest" and trying to pretend the game is truely global. Its no where near as ridiculous as the rugby league world cup of course, and not realistic now to trim back to 16 teams....but dont try and pretend that the likes of namibia provide value by being there.
Its an overlong flabby comeptition still dominated by the same old faces because of not in spite of the inclussion of no hopers. If youw ant to see the likes of Samoa given a fair crack at the cup get rid of the midweek games by getting rid of the 5th pot, it wont happen though. Instead we will see the top two pots all go through to the quarters with only scotland still in with a chance of upsetting that. The group stages have for the most part been a waste of time and effort and pretty dull, unlike the 6 nations where every game is hard fought and meaningful.

Peter, i am getting the impression we won't agree on this.

But just to give you some background info, Namibia (south west Africa) was part of south africa intul 1990, the rugby culture runs deep in the urban communities, always have, Namibia has been part of our domestic rugby for a long time.

Rugby union has been played in the country since 1916 when it was introduced by soldiers from South Africa who had invaded the German-run colony. Before Namibia gained its independence in 1990, the team, as South West Africa, played in South Africa's domestic club competition, the Currie Cup. The team achieved their best result in the 1989 season, where they finished third.

The Namibia Rugby Union was formed in March 1990, and it joined the International Rugby Board in the same month. Independence came too late for Namibia to qualify for Rugby World Cup 1991. Hardened by regular, tough competition in the Currie Cup, the first few years of Namibian rugby union were relatively successful, their highest point being 2–0 home series victories over Ireland and Italy in 1991. That year the Welwitschias won all 10 of their Tests, the others being five victories against Zimbabwe and one against Portugal in Lisbon

it is finances that is hurting Namibian rugby, not the lack of interest.