RWC: Why the empty seats in New Zealand?

by Portnoy Tue 27 Sep 2011, 11:55 am

This RWC was always going to be a last hurrah for NZ as hosts as it was never going to be a money-spinner.

But why the empty seats? NZ is supposedly the epitome of a rugby-mad nation but even modestly-sized stadia are not filled to the gunnels.

Is it because of pricing, the World economy or that NZers are not so much rugby-mad as All Black obsessed?

by HERSH Tue 27 Sep 2011, 12:00 pm

The games are over priced, over hyped and on TV just like most of the Ospreys games

by Portnoy Tue 27 Sep 2011, 12:03 pm

HERSH wrote:The games are over priced, over hyped and on TV just like most of the Ospreys games

I was expecting the Welsh analogy at some point Hersh, but not quite as quickly as this. Wink

by Guest Tue 27 Sep 2011, 12:04 pm

I dont think the economy is an excuse, if you really wanted to go to a world cup you had 4 years to save up for it.

by **Biltong** Tue 27 Sep 2011, 12:14 pm

IronMike wrote:I dont think the economy is an excuse, if you really wanted to go to a world cup you had 4 years to save up for it.

yeah, ignoring the obvious world wide recession since 2008. thumbsup

by Mickado Tue 27 Sep 2011, 12:38 pm

IronMike wrote:I dont think the economy is an excuse, if you really wanted to go to a world cup you had 4 years to save up for it.

what if you lost your job?

by Portnoy Tue 27 Sep 2011, 12:54 pm

Mickado wrote:
IronMike wrote:I dont think the economy is an excuse, if you really wanted to go to a world cup you had 4 years to save up for it.

All the what-ifs from the NH perspective are a bit irrelevant. Most (even the RU engrossed) people would put spare cash into family and security.

The spare seats should surely be filled by locals. No?

what if you lost your job?

by Portnoy Tue 27 Sep 2011, 5:06 pm

I had expected a Kiwi to comment.

No joy so far...

by kiakahaaotearoa Tue 27 Sep 2011, 7:00 pm

All the good games are snappled up. High ticket prices mean you can´t go to all the minnow games. You have to pick and choose. It´s a long way for people overseas to come. I live in Madrid so the commute is fairly taxing...

All not very convincing answers. All point to the fact that NZ will never host again. A shame but understandable. Maybe the business end of the tournament will create a more favourable impression. Certainly plenty of great match ups. Perhaps the most even set of quarter finals of any World Cup.

by Gatts Tue 27 Sep 2011, 7:10 pm

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:All the good games are snappled up. High ticket prices mean you can´t go to all the minnow games. You have to pick and choose. It´s a long way for people overseas to come. I live in Madrid so the commute is fairly taxing...

All not very convincing answers. All point to the fact that NZ will never host again. A shame but understandable. Maybe the business end of the tournament will create a more favourable impression. Certainly plenty of great match ups. Perhaps the most even set of quarter finals of any World Cup.

Well if they don't win it this time they shouldn't be allowed to host it again...hardly a good example for the minnows! Wink

by senghenydd1913 Tue 27 Sep 2011, 7:26 pm

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:All the good games are snappled up. High ticket prices mean you can´t go to all the minnow games. You have to pick and choose. It´s a long way for people overseas to come. I live in Madrid so the commute is fairly taxing...

All not very convincing answers. All point to the fact that NZ will never host again. A shame but understandable. Maybe the business end of the tournament will create a more favourable impression. Certainly plenty of great match ups. Perhaps the most even set of quarter finals of any World Cup.

with you there butty-live in Lisbon so to get back and forth to all our games is a bit of a pain at the moment but have worked out that if I sell the Gulfstream and the Sunseeker then I might get to see our 1/4 final angel

by aucklandlaurie Tue 27 Sep 2011, 7:47 pm

I have been to 4 games so far,and all of those were sell outs.

Tonga was the first country to have all its games sold out.

Something else to consider, well some of the rugby played has been rubbish.

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Tue 27 Sep 2011, 7:57 pm

Yes Laurie - all of Scotland's matches !

by aucklandlaurie Tue 27 Sep 2011, 7:59 pm

21st Cman
Well put it this way New Zealanders do prefer to watch inventive,skillful,running rugby....

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue 27 Sep 2011, 8:28 pm

Probably all the scotts that have gone there, they always bring empty seats with them

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Tue 27 Sep 2011, 8:30 pm

Yes Laurie - you will never get that with the Robinson/Townsend bell-end duo who select utter w%n&ers like Parks and Blair. I suppose it saves us from being humiliated by the ABs - as always. Can we not just come home now. No-one here cares a jot anyway after that woeful display on Sunday. I can only apologise to the good people of New Zealand for that dross.

by gavstar Wed 28 Sep 2011, 1:23 am

money, money , money, people cannot afford to go. rugby events/ stadia managers etc. need to realise that the world wide media (tv)has taken over, bring the prices down.
future games could be held in an audience free indoor synthetic stadium and we'd all watch it on the tv! ( if its still called a tv!!! )

by mystiroakey Wed 28 Sep 2011, 1:41 am

is it really money?

selling tickets for a sporting eventsuch as this are priced in a way to maximize earnings.

Unless one hell of a mistake has been made anyway.

My theory is that rugby in NZ is so nationalistic that the locals just cant be bothered to see other teams play. There are the best and what are they going to gain by watching a USA v ITALY game.

Offcourse there may be alot of interest for a england v france or a south africa v australia. But much of that could be visiting fans or ex pats .

I suppose the reason why tickets are so high is because the RWC in NZ is one of those high end markets that fans will pay alot to see or be the type of person that wouldnt watch it for free anyway. My bet is the money men have done there research and maximised sales revenue- basically charging the people that will see the games over the odds, because there will be plenty of empty seats even if the games were dirt cheap.

the economic term is that the market is inelastic

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Wed 28 Sep 2011, 9:16 am

One way they could involve the minnow nations more is to go around the world with a TV crew and get people to audition for a place in the finals based on their hilarious antics with a rugby ball and/or heart wrenching backstoryt.
Then get them all to live in a big house for a few weeks and vote out on team at a time.
The only problem I forsee with this ofrmat is Englands unpopuilarity leading to an early exit (bad for sponsors) ...however the public does often like the pantomime villan to stay in. Wales should also do well with reality TV star Henson capatining the side.
Once in a while chuck in some midgets and mystery blondes to stir things up, but carefuly control access to alcohol for certain all blacks players.
Afterwards Jonnny Wilkinson can happily retire to follow in the footsteps of the likes of Brian Dowling to a career as a celebrity gay.

Sounds perfect to me.

by TheGreyGhost Wed 28 Sep 2011, 1:01 pm

Portnoy wrote:
But why the empty seats? NZ is supposedly the epitome of a rugby-mad nation but even modestly-sized stadia are not filled to the gunnels.

Because there's no joy for a fan of rugby in rolling out to watch Argentina play Scotland in a howling Wellington gale in driving rain? Firstly it's just not a very pleasant experience and secondly there is nothing for a fan of rugby to watch, unless you were collecting evidence of Wayne Barnes' continuing incompetence.

I know that in England you get 80,000 turn out to stand in the rain and bellow "Tigers! Tigers!" whilst 30 men wrestle in the mud for 80 minutes and occasionally line up a penalty shot. But frankly, Kiwis are discerning followers of rugby. It's like asking why music enthusiasts didn't flock to the Take That reunion.

by eirebilly Wed 28 Sep 2011, 1:31 pm

I thought that on average the crowd numbers were quite high for this RWC? Ok, the minnows don't get the crowds but the big teams have been drawing in the crowd.

I could be wrong though but i honestly felt there has been a reasonably good attendance %.

by Portnoy Wed 28 Sep 2011, 1:34 pm

eirebilly wrote:I thought that on average the crowd numbers were quite high for this RWC? Ok, the minnows don't get the crowds but the big teams have been drawing in the crowd.

I could be wrong though but i honestly felt there has been a reasonably good attendance %.

Nothing compared last time around in France in much, much bigger stadia.

by eirebilly Wed 28 Sep 2011, 1:39 pm

Yeah but the overall percentage when compared to ground capacity has been relatively high. Personally i feel that NZ has done a pretty decent job when you consider its location and the expense it is to travel there.

I say well done to New Zealand for that.

by caoimhincentre Wed 28 Sep 2011, 1:42 pm

Portnoy wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I thought that on average the crowd numbers were quite high for this RWC? Ok, the minnows don't get the crowds but the big teams have been drawing in the crowd.

I could be wrong though but i honestly felt there has been a reasonably good attendance %.

Nothing compared last time around in France in much, much bigger stadia.

Last time round you had all the european nations going over to watch the games, not to mention some being played in Wales.

overall NZ are putting on a good show. i suggest you enjoy it rather than poking holes that aren't there.

by Portnoy Wed 28 Sep 2011, 2:03 pm

caoimhincentre wrote:
Portnoy wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I thought that on average the crowd numbers were quite high for this RWC? Ok, the minnows don't get the crowds but the big teams have been drawing in the crowd.

I could be wrong though but i honestly felt there has been a reasonably good attendance %.

Nothing compared last time around in France in much, much bigger stadia.

Last time round you had all the european nations going over to watch the games, not to mention some being played in Wales.

overall NZ are putting on a good show. i suggest you enjoy it rather than poking holes that aren't there.

Do not. Do not. Mention the MS games otherwise I would have to recourse to mention the non-Wales game.

And I have promised not to mention that game again.

by caoimhincentre Wed 28 Sep 2011, 2:11 pm

Portnoy wrote:
caoimhincentre wrote:
Portnoy wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I thought that on average the crowd numbers were quite high for this RWC? Ok, the minnows don't get the crowds but the big teams have been drawing in the crowd.

I could be wrong though but i honestly felt there has been a reasonably good attendance %.

Nothing compared last time around in France in much, much bigger stadia.

Last time round you had all the european nations going over to watch the games, not to mention some being played in Wales.

overall NZ are putting on a good show. i suggest you enjoy it rather than poking holes that aren't there.

Do not. Do not. Mention the MS games otherwise I would have to recourse to mention the non-Wales game.

And I have promised not to mention that game again.

were there not games held in wales, an hours flight from paris???

also many of the locations in france are up to 2 hours away from home nations which would undoubtedly drawn excellent crowds.

NZ is an isolated nation (in the kindest sense of the word) and is doing a fantastic job.

by Portnoy Wed 28 Sep 2011, 2:19 pm

caoimhincentre wrote:
Portnoy wrote:
caoimhincentre wrote:
Portnoy wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I thought that on average the crowd numbers were quite high for this RWC? Ok, the minnows don't get the crowds but the big teams have been drawing in the crowd.

I could be wrong though but i honestly felt there has been a reasonably good attendance %.

Nothing compared last time around in France in much, much bigger stadia.

Last time round you had all the european nations going over to watch the games, not to mention some being played in Wales.

overall NZ are putting on a good show. i suggest you enjoy it rather than poking holes that aren't there.

Do not. Do not. Mention the MS games otherwise I would have to recourse to mention the non-Wales game.

And I have promised not to mention that game again.

were there not games held in wales, an hours flight from paris???

also many of the locations in france are up to 2 hours away from home nations which would undoubtedly drawn excellent crowds.

NZ is an isolated nation (in the kindest sense of the word) and is doing a fantastic job.

Which brings me back to my OP.

NZers are not filling the stadia. It must be pricing or something.

Maybe they should sell tickets like the cheap airlines (but not RyanAir otherwise there'd be fights at the turnstiles and they'd charge $NZ 20 for a pee at half-time) - just fill the grounds.

by caoimhincentre Wed 28 Sep 2011, 2:22 pm

how exactly does that bring you back to your OP. Sometimes i think you read what you want to see.

by Rangiora Thu 29 Sep 2011, 7:31 am

It's because you cant get a decent NZ beer in grounds, forced to drink heinikien p**s

by LordDowlais Thu 29 Sep 2011, 7:37 am

Using minnow games is no excuse, I remember when I went to watch Japan V Samoa in the 1999 world cup in a sell out millenium stadium. It was our world cup and I went to watch that game in support of that, and so did thousands of others. I also would like to add that I thoroughly enjoyed the game and atmosphere.

by nganboy Thu 29 Sep 2011, 9:03 am

Be realistic Lord and Portney.
Look at the populations in some of the towns where games are being played. Try to imagine how many people would be there if the minnow games were held in Wales and only people from Wales were allowed to attend. That's sort of how it is in NZ

by Rangiora Thu 29 Sep 2011, 9:10 am

nganboy wrote:Be realistic Lord and Portney.
Look at the populations in some of the towns where games are being played. Try to imagine how many people would be there if the minnow games were held in Wales and only people from Wales were allowed to attend. That's sort of how it is in NZ

Spot on.

Wonder how a nation of same population of NZ would do hosting a RWC, lets for argument say Wales. Have they 8 stadiums that could host matches? How would the A49 cope with the North to South flow of traffic Wink

by Portnoy Thu 29 Sep 2011, 9:22 am

Rangiora wrote:
nganboy wrote:Be realistic Lord and Portney.
Look at the populations in some of the towns where games are being played. Try to imagine how many people would be there if the minnow games were held in Wales and only people from Wales were allowed to attend. That's sort of how it is in NZ

Spot on.

Wonder how a nation of same population of NZ would do hosting a RWC, lets for argument say Wales. Have they 8 stadiums that could host matches? How would the A49 cope with the North to South flow of traffic

I am being realistic Rangiora. The 2011 RWC was granted to NZ as a special recognition of NZ's unique contribution to world RU.

As I've suggested before a cheap airline model for the sale of tickets could have been adopted. Those most desperate to attend will have to be prepared and be aware that they pay a premium. And if NZ20c seats become available at the last minute - the so be it.

by LordDowlais Thu 29 Sep 2011, 9:23 am

Rangiora wrote:
nganboy wrote:Be realistic Lord and Portney.
Look at the populations in some of the towns where games are being played. Try to imagine how many people would be there if the minnow games were held in Wales and only people from Wales were allowed to attend. That's sort of how it is in NZ

Spot on.

Wonder how a nation of same population of NZ would do hosting a RWC, lets for argument say Wales. Have they 8 stadiums that could host matches? How would the A49 cope with the North to South flow of traffic

But we have hosted a world cup, in 1999. The A49 coped quite well as far as I can remember. We also made a profit because all our games were a sell out, all that even with a smaller population than New Zealand. Also seventy thousand for a minnow game in Cardiff aint that bad, we also were selling out Stradey for all their games in West Wales as well, so as far as I can remember our world cup was a sucsess thumbsup

by Rangiora Thu 29 Sep 2011, 9:26 am

Portnoy wrote:
Rangiora wrote:
nganboy wrote:Be realistic Lord and Portney.
Look at the populations in some of the towns where games are being played. Try to imagine how many people would be there if the minnow games were held in Wales and only people from Wales were allowed to attend. That's sort of how it is in NZ

Spot on.

Wonder how a nation of same population of NZ would do hosting a RWC, lets for argument say Wales. Have they 8 stadiums that could host matches? How would the A49 cope with the North to South flow of traffic

I am being realistic Rangiora. The 2011 RWC was granted to NZ as a special recognition of NZ's unique contribution to world RU.

As I've suggested before a cheap airline model for the sale of tickets could have been adopted. Those most desperate to attend will have to be prepared and be aware that they pay a premium. And if NZ20c seats become available at the last minute - the so be it.

Bring it on Very Happy

As I've spent a small fortune to get to matches, but I'm perceived as a rich ex pat Wink

Who actually sets the prices? IRB or NZRU ?

by Rangiora Thu 29 Sep 2011, 9:30 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Rangiora wrote:
nganboy wrote:Be realistic Lord and Portney.
Look at the populations in some of the towns where games are being played. Try to imagine how many people would be there if the minnow games were held in Wales and only people from Wales were allowed to attend. That's sort of how it is in NZ

Spot on.

Wonder how a nation of same population of NZ would do hosting a RWC, lets for argument say Wales. Have they 8 stadiums that could host matches? How would the A49 cope with the North to South flow of traffic

But we have hosted a world cup, in 1999. The A49 coped quite well as far as I can remember. We also made a profit because all our games were a sell out, all that even with a smaller population than New Zealand. Also seventy thousand for a minnow game in Cardiff aint that bad, we also were selling out Stradey for all their games in West Wales as well, so as far as I can remember our world cup was a sucsess

So you shut the borders and didn't let the hoards in from the rest of UK and Europe ? No of course not , you've a much greater audience on your doorsteps.
Cant remeber but how many matches were in North Wales and mid Wales cos getting through Hereford on the A49 is a nightmare , from experience

by Rangiora Thu 29 Sep 2011, 9:32 am

Portnoy wrote:

I am being realistic Rangiora. The 2011 RWC was granted to NZ as a special recognition of NZ's unique contribution to world RU.

t.

And the buzz here is brilliant good on them Very Happy

by Portnoy Thu 29 Sep 2011, 9:33 am

Good question. I haven't a clue. The host nation for local ticketing I suspect - whilst the media deals would be negotiated through the IRB.
But I'm guessing.

by Rangiora Thu 29 Sep 2011, 9:37 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Rangiora wrote:
nganboy wrote:Be realistic Lord and Portney.
Look at the populations in some of the towns where games are being played. Try to imagine how many people would be there if the minnow games were held in Wales and only people from Wales were allowed to attend. That's sort of how it is in NZ

Spot on.

Wonder how a nation of same population of NZ would do hosting a RWC, lets for argument say Wales. Have they 8 stadiums that could host matches? How would the A49 cope with the North to South flow of traffic

But we have hosted a world cup, in 1999. The A49 coped quite well as far as I can remember. We also made a profit because all our games were a sell out, all that even with a smaller population than New Zealand. Also seventy thousand for a minnow game in Cardiff aint that bad, we also were selling out Stradey for all their games in West Wales as well, so as far as I can remember our world cup was a sucsess

Ah I've just checked only two stadiums where actually in Wales ............................ Doh

by Rangiora Thu 29 Sep 2011, 9:42 am

Portnoy wrote:Good question. I haven't a clue. The host nation for local ticketing I suspect - whilst the media deals would be negotiated through the IRB.
But I'm guessing.

Found this
http://www.newzealandrugbyinfo.co.nz/faqs.php
Who sets the Rugby World Cup ticket prices and how?
The official site says "Rugby New Zealand 2011 Ltd (RNZ 2011) is in the process of developing the ticketing strategy for RWC 2011. It expects to be in a position to present the strategy for approval to Rugby World Cup Limited (RWCL) in early 2009, and anticipates releasing the strategy towards the end of 2009 with on-sale date yet to be determined.

In formulating its strategy RNZ 2011 will work closely with RWCL to incorporate key learnings from the hugely successful tournaments held in France in 2007 and Australia in 2003, as well as taking into account local and international market considerations.

Ticket prices will be established during the strategy development. RNZ 2011 faces the dual challenges of maximizing revenue yet ensuring the tournament remains accessible to New Zealanders and international supporters. Ticket pricing will reflect the stature of the tournament as the biggest sporting event in the world in 2011."

Other sources say prices could be as low as $NZ5 for a pool game and as high as $1500 for the final.

And for the South Island lets not forget the effect of the earthquake in Christchurch ,the largest city on it . A lot of rugby fans haven't been able to go to matches/afford to

by TrailApe Thu 29 Sep 2011, 10:09 am

NZ is isolated in a geographical sense when compared to a European venue.

They can't get the "instead of getting ratfaced in our usual drinking pits, lets lob over to (name of 'exotic' foriegn* city) next friday for a long sesh and take in the rugby", people like we can in yooorope can they?

Next RWC is in Angleterre, and I think I'm right in thinking that StJames Park is short listed for some of the pool games (correct me if I'm wrong), now there's no way that the local rugby fans can fill a 52k stadium, but what will swell the attendance is the fans from the rest of the north of England, South of Scotland, and depending on the teams using the venue, various expats from London. Might even get the Scandanavians coming across.

That couldn't happen in NZ.

Never get the Scandanavians for one, don't thinks there's an M&S in Otago.

by TrailApe Thu 29 Sep 2011, 10:10 am

*foriegn meaning anywere but here

by GunsGerms Thu 29 Sep 2011, 10:20 am

aucklandlaurie wrote: 21st Cman
Well put it this way New Zealanders do prefer to watch inventive,skillful,running rugby....

Change the record, of course some matches will be dull compared to others. It's inevitable.

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