Nigel Owens abuse

First topic message reminder :

Not sure if anyone has seen this but the abuse Nigel Owens is getting on Twitter and Facebook from Samoa fans is shocking. For me this makes me glad they are no longer in the RWC.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Nigel-Ref-Owens/285269013216

It is shocking not just the things that have been said, but the volume of them. This is the worst face of Samoan rugby fans. Which is sad to see.

Greyghost....you would have to admit that some of it was uncalled for regardless of how bad he was...I mean callingh him "Wayne Barnes" is just vile.

The Samoan team comments and New Zealand media bias have stirred some of this though. Its a pity that Samoas efforts and performances will be tarnished by garnering a reputation as whingers and conspiracy theorists, and their fans as homophobes.

Shameful but nothing can be done about the "fans". They're obviously incapable of swallowing a loss and not worth bothering with in my books. Besides, there are some more sensible representatives of the Samoan fanbase coming out and denouncing those whom I'm sure they wish weren't from the same planet as them, let alone the same country.

Sapolu however, surely he now needs to be banned and fined for spreading his filthy hate-filled vitriol at every turn. Supporters of this attitude are one thing but players...that type of behavior should not be tolerated.

Rollmeister wrote:I agree that we shouldn't tar all Samoans with that brush. I am disgusted by the people that have made the comments though. (That makes me sound like an old woman writing to a newspaper!)

Are you old? And/or a woman? And is there something wrong with being an old woman who would write to a newspaper? Would an old man be more acceptable? Or would they have to be young?

Lessons learned from this:
- Don't have your own facebook page if you're a ref.

It really is sad when a proud nation like Samoa's achievements in this RWC is cheapened by actions like this.

Pot Hale wrote:

Rollmeister wrote:I agree that we shouldn't tar all Samoans with that brush. I am disgusted by the people that have made the comments though. (That makes me sound like an old woman writing to a newspaper!)

Are you old? And/or a woman? And is there something wrong with being an old woman who would write to a newspaper? Would an old man be more acceptable? Or would they have to be young?

Nope, it's just a stereotype, much like the joke complaints from Mrs Trellis to Humph in I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue

Does this include the 'illegal' that plays for England ?

I can't believe that people are suggesting 'racism' against a country. It's impossible. A country is not a race. Some countries are more multi-cultural than others, but no country consists of just one race. Namibia were hard done by in the draw too but their team is made up predominantly of whites. Are the IRB therefore racist to whites sometimes too?

Its called schizophrenia by the public, not really racism at all.

I'm quite annoyed by the comments as well, there are ways for coaches and players to complain about the performances of referees without behaving like this. Clearly this Samoan player has a real attitude problem and I personally am more than happy to see him and his country out of the World Cup.

It's a shame really because you always had the image Samoa were hard men, who sometimes got a bit excited and bent the rules, but were always religious and honest, and conducted themselves with honor, this idiot has shattered the romantic image people had of Samoa, and now they will be seen as a small, annoying little island in the middle of nowhere, who are full of sore losers. They rely on teams to throw them bones to survive but who would want to throw them a bone now?

What i don't understand about their complaining is we in fact got penalised more than they did, we recieved a number of penalties in the breakdowns and they say we were favoured in the breakdowns.

"Losing side in only noticing penalties that went against them" - SHOCKER!

Nige-whatever-you're a good ref and a great bloke-f""" em who dish out abuse after a loss in what is only a game.Carry on .

senghenydd1913 wrote: in what is only a game..

sorry biltong-dont understand your smilie-was trying to point out that perchance the wrc is not the b all and end all of peoples lives.

AlynDavies wrote:I'm quite annoyed by the comments as well, there are ways for coaches and players to complain about the performances of referees without behaving like this. Clearly this Samoan player has a real attitude problem and I personally am more than happy to see him and his country out of the World Cup.

It's a shame really because you always had the image Samoa were hard men, who sometimes got a bit excited and bent the rules, but were always religious and honest, and conducted themselves with honor, this idiot has shattered the romantic image people had of Samoa, and now they will be seen as a small, annoying little island in the middle of nowhere, who are full of sore losers. They rely on teams to throw them bones to survive but who would want to throw them a bone now?

Oh come on Alyn, you don't see the windowpanes in your glass house shattering after all you've had to say about the integrity of various Irish referees in the Pro12? You have got to be kidding me!

senghenydd1913 wrote:sorry biltong-dont understand your smilie-was trying to point out that perchance the wrc is not the b all and end all of peoples lives.

Just teasing you about rugby just being a game. Pay no attention to me.

senghenydd1913 wrote:Nige-whatever-you're a good ref and a great bloke-f""" em who dish out abuse after a loss in what is only a game.Carry on .

Don't worry his ego is so big he is used to these kind of comments when he referees Welsh teams!
He really won't care what Samoans think rightly or wrongly, though for Gloucesters sake, Owens better not referee them again because he won't forget what that Samoan player said.
The Ospreys crossed him once or twice and Owens doesn't half make us suffer for it when he refs us!

Alyn that's ludicrous. Nige doesn't hold grudges when he refs he's the ultimate professional.

And I seriously, seriosuly doubt he has ever faced the sheer quantity and disgusting abuse he's been receiving from some Samoan "fans", here in Wales. Seriously doubt that.

rugbydreamer wrote:Alyn that's ludicrous. Nige doesn't hold grudges when he refs he's the ultimate professional.

And I seriously, seriosuly doubt he has ever faced the sheer quantity and disgusting abuse he's been receiving from some Samoan "fans", here in Wales. Seriously doubt that.

You seem to be going for the throat a bit on me today
I agree I think he is the ultimate professional, but that doesn't make him immune to lacking tolerance against certain teams.

Nigel probably has had worse said to him in rugby grounds in every game he has refereed, He won't be the least bit bothered about some comments from a lot of keyboard warriors in the middle of the pacific.

rugbydreamer wrote:Alyn that's ludicrous. Nige doesn't hold grudges when he refs he's the ultimate professional.

And I seriously, seriosuly doubt he has ever faced the sheer quantity and disgusting abuse he's been receiving from some Samoan "fans", here in Wales. Seriously doubt that.

I'm sure he has heard some of it before Alyn, but not all of it. Some of the comments are truly disgusting. And the quantity of them is shamefull. I would say if he wasn't bothered, he wouldn't have felt the need to post again on his fbook page but he did.

And I'm not going for the throat mate, I'm just disagreeing with you

How does this abuse compare to the death threats made to Wayne Barnes by Kiwi fans (or indeed some of the posts made by greyghost on here)?

They're both completely out of line SafeAs in my opinion, and something that should not be happening with regards to our game. Horrible.

rugbydreamer wrote:They're both completely out of line SafeAs in my opinion, and something that should not be happening with regards to our game. Horrible.

Agreed. I just think some people are still seeing this minority of "fans" and a single player as representing Samoa's views on the situation. The vast majority of Samoan fans and players will just be very disappointed with their world cup exit and this nasty overreaction by some of their countryfolk. After all, it's not as if we think all New Zealanders wish harm to come to Wayne Barnes, is it?

I think it's important that we all remember that people like these "fans" are in the minority, and that no nation is free of them. It would be a bit foolish to think what a small group of people think applies to a whole nation.

The rise in criticism turning into personal attacks (accusations of racism and blatant homophobia in this case) on referees by rugby union fans at the end of matches is to deplored. In the long term it will prove severely damaging. When such attacks are made by players they are completely unacceptable, and must lead to disciplinary action (against RFU regs to publicly criticise referees, or is this only for games under RFU jurisdiction?). If not, fans and then players at the low levels will believe such attacks are justified, and referees such as myself who do it for the love of it will stop refereeing.

Having said all that, it is unhelpful to suggest that these reactions are illustrative of the Samoan (or indeed any other) public. It is no doubt very much the case of a vocal minority, but that doesn't mean we should brush it under the carpet. I can also guess you could find similar examples from most nations if you looked hard enough. That doesn't however excuse the behaviour of these Samoans and the player in particular. One of the principles of rugby is respect of the referee. We can't always expect it from fans, but we must expect it from players.

NB: have edited this after a PM from a poster who (correctly) pointed out that I had, after saying you could find similar examples from most nations, quoted one nation in particular. This was meant as an example, but on reflection wouldn't add anything to the argument, and would only serve to make the debate into a "my fans are better than yours".

Good post Mike

I think referees have a tough time because play is so much faster and a ball can move much faster than a person, hence a ball can be kicked a distance yet the referee is expected to chase after it and keep up with play, where players simply fill a gap in the line and wait until the ball comes their way again.

You could also make a point that teams go out of their way to con the referee in the profesisonal era so it can be very hard to get decisions correct.

Though one massive issue is the way different referees interpret the rules which can mean teams have to constantly adapt to the referee instead of having a clear defined rule book, players and teams often have no idea how any given referee will react on a certain day to any grey area, and sadly referees errors are nearly always the talking points in close games that have been decided under controversial circumstances.

I agree that the reaction is over the top. However, it seems to be tha case whenever referees are seen as the issue. I struggled with Barnes in 07, as did many kiwis. Read the response from the Wales/Ireland game this year, or any team at various times.

However, that's not a justification. I thought he had a mixed bag. his biggest problem is he lost control of the players in the first half, and the off the ball incidents just kept excelating.

I don't think he should have been appointed to the game. For his own sake as much as anyone elses. he's a welsh ref, and his team stands to materially benefit from the result. That's not to say he's biased. It's recognising its a situation that refs and teams shouldn't be put in.

You have to have some sympathy for the Samoans, they have been poorly treated by the IRB. A level playing field would be nice (i.e. access to their players pre cup as per the top teams), similar times between games, and more tjought put into refereeing appointments. I think they did well considering the circumstances.

This isn't an anti welsh, or boks post. I think both teams are playing well at times. I tlook forward to seeing them in the knockout rounds. I think both have the potential all round game to go far.

blackcanelion, Barnes was 8 or 9 years old in '87 maybe you should edit that before someone climbs in and starts abusing you for a typo?

To everyone else who has a problem with refs:

Hey, there you go we all make mistakes but it seems that any mistakes made by referees are always subjected to the closest scrutiny via TV replays and sometimes extreme close-ups and every now and again super slo-mo close-ups.

How the feck do you think a ref is going to get through a perfect game when he is trying to keep a lid on 30 super-fit blokes all intent on gaining as much advantage as they possibly can by virtue of the fact that they know the ref can't spot everything?

Come the feck on! Of the 30 players on the pitch at any given time, 16 of them are going to be forwards and will know how to cheat not only with discretion and skulduggery aplenty, but also with an unhealthy dose of panache.

16 out of 30 represents over 50% of the players on the pitch, of those 16 players 6 of them will be front row forwards and will know how to cheat without it being detectable by the human eye.

So before I move onto the ladies at the back, it's fair to say that a ref has to keep an eye on over 50% of the players with a view to them being cheats, and 10% of the players with an eye to them being cheats of the Penn & Teller school of diversion.

Of the remaining 40% there's a fair chance that over the course of 80 minutes, they will attempt to cheat almost everytime they get the ball, if England or South Africa are playing, the ref can take a breather on that one as backs only tend to touch the ball 2 or 3 times every 10 minutes.

Our game needs refs, if we didn't have them the game would break down into a fight approximately 2 seconds after kick-off and remain in a state of pugilistic treachery for the ensuing 79 minutes and 58 seconds.

One of the major incidents in the Samoa v SA game was the sending off of Williams, anyone care to guess who was responsible for that decision?

I will say this much, I clearly heard the conversation (via the ref's mic feed) Owens had with his AR following the incident, and Owens was advised that it was worthy of a red card.

Whatever anyone may personally feel about Owens' reffing performance, the abuse he's received from Samoan rugby followers has to be laid on the doorstep of Samoan rugby, it has to be stopped now as it's already gone too far.

No excuses.

This type of personal abuse is only exasperated by the ranting and ravings of some of the New Zealand media with their usual verbal diarrhea.It should not be tolerated and should be dealt immediately by the IRB.

The game was always going to be a difficult one to referee because of pre-game hype and was not helped by the attitude of the Saoan captain who appeared to suffer from paranoia with every decision that went against them.

In my opinion Samoa have been very lucky in this tournament as in most of their games the referees have "pandered"to them for the fear of some kind of retribution from the media or Paddy O'Brien for not letting the game flow.

In all their games at the breakdowns they have been off their feet, over the top, in from the wrong side of the rucks and going past the rucks to prevent the oposition getting to the ball.......50% of the time they have not been penalised whereas other teams have.

I thought Owens, apart from the sinbinning of SMIT, was correct in his decisions.......I think his only downfall was the fact he was not strong enough at the breakdowns and off the ball antics.

I feel that the management of the Samoan team should make a personal apology to Nigel Owens and that the Samoan player should be banned for at least 6 months.

This may appear to be over the top....but if not dealt with in a serious manner it will open the door for anything to be said on twitter and simply escalate out of control.

The Sad thing is Fuimaono acting like a little &^^% over shadows Samoa's point that is obvious and needs to be made. The words are dam well not on and the islanders are just a weeeee bit more colourfull with their emotions than normal european standards.

The islands are deservingly p*#&ed at the IRB because they shouldn't be treated with such contempt. They are treated as minnows such as Namibia and Japan but they were legitimate contenders for the quarters. The threatening and gay slurs from their supports are way over the top but as far as I'm concerned the patronising opinions from Northern Hemisphere commentators are not much better(who should have much better public relations skills than a 23 year emotional charged rugby player). The comments from Miles Daversion that they should just be happy with what they get does have a whiff of racial superiority behind it.
Are you saying they should not expect the same treatment as “white” nations and just accept they are lesser countries? The Pacific Island nations compared to the Six nations is a similar situation of the Six nation teams compared to the Tri-Nations.
Man could you imagine the cries if NH teams got treated with such content because they're weren't considered contenders. Could it possibly be that since the IRB is mostly controlled by the NH teams and they being scared of the Islanders, just make things a little be harder for them? Surely they wouldn't stoop to that level would they?

Might be a misunderstanding as "gay" isn't a pejorative term in Samoa which is culturally not a homophobic society as western european countries tend to be.

Describing him in this way is probably just a judgement call from a people used to calling things as they see them.

Personally I'm not qualified to comment, having no idea of the man's orientation. But I'd be prepared to defer to experts.

Perhaps in taking offence over what may transpire to be merely a misunderstanding derived from the way the man conducts himself, we have seen some unnecessary cultural friction.

kiwi4ever wrote:The Sad thing is Fuimaono acting like a little &^^% over shadows Samoa's point that is obvious and needs to be made. The words are dam well not on and the islanders are just a weeeee bit more colourfull with their emotions than normal european standards.

The islands are deservingly p*#&ed at the IRB because they shouldn't be treated with such contempt. They are treated as minnows such as Namibia and Japan but they were legitimate contenders for the quarters. The threatening and gay slurs from their supports are way over the top but as far as I'm concerned the patronising opinions from Northern Hemisphere commentators are not much better(who should have much better public relations skills than a 23 year emotional charged rugby player). The comments from Miles Daversion that they should just be happy with what they get does have a whiff of racial superiority behind it.
Are you saying they should not expect the same treatment as “white” nations and just accept they are lesser countries? The Pacific Island nations compared to the Six nations is a similar situation of the Six nation teams compared to the Tri-Nations.
Man could you imagine the cries if NH teams got treated with such content because they're weren't considered contenders. Could it possibly be that since the IRB is mostly controlled by the NH teams and they being scared of the Islanders, just make things a little be harder for them? Surely they wouldn't stoop to that level would they?

Italy have been. France had two less days than NZ to prepare for that clash. The IRB is not controled by the NH, it is controled by the top nations who naturally act in their own interests, but also in the commercial interests. Like it or not, it is far better for TV rights that Wales qualify in front of Samoa, and Ireland in front of Italy. This is patently unjust (as the big teams are the teams who could probably deal with short turnarounds, being fitter and having greater strength in depth) but let's not try to pretend it's to do with racism or anything else.

TheGreyGhost wrote:Might be a misunderstanding as "gay" isn't a pejorative term in Samoa which is culturally not a homophobic society as western european countries tend to be.

Describing him in this way is probably just a judgement call from a people used to calling things as they see them.

Personally I'm not qualified to comment, having no idea of the man's orientation. But I'd be prepared to defer to experts.

Perhaps in taking offence over what may transpire to be merely a misunderstanding derived from the way the man conducts himself, we have seen some unnecessary cultural friction.

For a rugby fan you are impressively uninformed, and come up with some bizzarre posts. Nigel Owens is gay (he has been openly so for quite a while now), and it is clear that the Samoan fans were attacking him for his sexual orientation. They also called him racist, is calling people racist also not pejorative in Samoa?

TheGreyGhost wrote:Might be a misunderstanding as "gay" isn't a pejorative term in Samoa which is culturally not a homophobic society as western european countries tend to be.

Describing him in this way is probably just a judgement call from a people used to calling things as they see them.

Personally I'm not qualified to comment, having no idea of the man's orientation. But I'd be prepared to defer to experts.

Perhaps in taking offence over what may transpire to be merely a misunderstanding derived from the way the man conducts himself, we have seen some unnecessary cultural friction.

TGG if youd read it youd know.
He describes himself as gay on the page, and has openly said hes gay ...so you do know his sexual orientation like the people attacking him. To read comments like " you eat more ass than Wayne Barnes" and " u fing faggot" its pretty obvious its not just a descriptive term being used by the abussers.

Stop being silly and trying tio defend it, it does you no favours.

Kiwi...the reason Samoa were "mistreated" by the IRB is because they qualified as a 4th seed. That is toi say because they lost a lot of games and were rubbish for a long time. In the mean time they have been heavily funded by the IRB and helped to get where they are, and average side who didnt qualify for the quarters. You call Japan a genuine minnow but who won the Pac Nations cup? Wales were crying about qualifiying as a pot 2 team when they were theratening third place in the wolrd rankings shortly after the seedings were set, but the rules were the same for everyone...equal.
If Samoa suffered because of the way the seedings set the midweek games then they should blame the presence of the 5th pot teams, its their inclussion that forces the midweeks. But imagine teh outcry if teh IRB tried to remove them now. It was a mistake to include them, but the IRB are accussed of the same "old boys club" attitude when they dont as they are getting from people liek yourself now.

Get over it, Samoa werent good enough.

TheGreyGhost wrote:Might be a misunderstanding as "gay" isn't a pejorative term in Samoa which is culturally not a homophobic society as western european countries tend to be.

Describing him in this way is probably just a judgement call from a people used to calling things as they see them.

Personally I'm not qualified to comment, having no idea of the man's orientation. But I'd be prepared to defer to experts.

Perhaps in taking offence over what may transpire to be merely a misunderstanding derived from the way the man conducts himself, we have seen some unnecessary cultural friction.

Western european countries tend to be homophobic. GG, you clearly have some intellect as evidenced by your writing style and use of prose, but you also come out with some dumb rubbish which betrays any intelligence that you may have. Where is the evidence that western european counties are any more or less homophobic that NZ or Australia, for example? I think you just like to make outrageous statements to get a reaction, which begs the question why?

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Kiwi...the reason Samoa were "mistreated" by the IRB is because they qualified as a 4th seed. That is toi say because they lost a lot of games and were rubbish for a long time. In the mean time they have been heavily funded by the IRB and helped to get where they are, and average side who didnt qualify for the quarters. You call Japan a genuine minnow but who won the Pac Nations cup? Wales were crying about qualifiying as a pot 2 team when they were theratening third place in the wolrd rankings shortly after the seedings were set, but the rules were the same for everyone...equal.
If Samoa suffered because of the way the seedings set the midweek games then they should blame the presence of the 5th pot teams, its their inclussion that forces the midweeks. But imagine teh outcry if teh IRB tried to remove them now. It was a mistake to include them, but the IRB are accussed of the same "old boys club" attitude when they dont as they are getting from people liek yourself now.

Get over it, Samoa werent good enough.

Peter can be a bit of a Wum at times, but he is spot on here, we could go to a 16 team tournament in which case, Samoa, Romania, Russia and USA wouldn't of taken part based on their locations within the World and their seeding.

We could also change the broadcast schedule so the IRB has less money to fund the Tier B nations and Samoa could generate their own money from their massive population, and booming economy.

Or the Samoan players and fans could just shut the hell up and be grateful we even bother throwing them the odd bone, and allow them to participate. That money could easily be spent in India or China and do far more good than being invested in a few islands in the middle of no where.
The reality is 5 countries out of 20 in the world cup come from the Pacific, yet so few of the Worlds population lives there in comparison to Asia and Europe, so they are very lucky to be given the places they have already.

comments on the post from nigel...

'''''''''Forgot to tell you that the second prog Of The Whistle Blowers presented be myself was on Radio Wales yesterday ''''''''''''''''''
....said nigel

des leotard said, well it's unrepeatable on this usually quite friendly site (btw abe )

a good ref who doesnt deserve this tripe. but in interweb land people, umm i mean ppl feel they can say what they like. maybe facebook should ban some of these hatefull posters.

AlynDavies wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Kiwi...the reason Samoa were "mistreated" by the IRB is because they qualified as a 4th seed. That is toi say because they lost a lot of games and were rubbish for a long time. In the mean time they have been heavily funded by the IRB and helped to get where they are, and average side who didnt qualify for the quarters. You call Japan a genuine minnow but who won the Pac Nations cup? Wales were crying about qualifiying as a pot 2 team when they were theratening third place in the wolrd rankings shortly after the seedings were set, but the rules were the same for everyone...equal.
If Samoa suffered because of the way the seedings set the midweek games then they should blame the presence of the 5th pot teams, its their inclussion that forces the midweeks. But imagine teh outcry if teh IRB tried to remove them now. It was a mistake to include them, but the IRB are accussed of the same "old boys club" attitude when they dont as they are getting from people liek yourself now.

Get over it, Samoa werent good enough.

Peter can be a bit of a Wum at times, but he is spot on here, we could go to a 16 team tournament in which case, Samoa, Romania, Russia and USA wouldn't of taken part based on their locations within the World and their seeding.

We could also change the broadcast schedule so the IRB has less money to fund the Tier B nations and Samoa could generate their own money from their massive population, and booming economy.

Or the Samoan players and fans could just shut the hell up and be grateful we even bother throwing them the odd bone, and allow them to participate. That money could easily be spent in India or China and do far more good than being invested in a few islands in the middle of no where.
The reality is 5 countries out of 20 in the world cup come from the Pacific, yet so few of the Worlds population lives there in comparison to Asia and Europe, so they are very lucky to be given the places they have already.

Congradulations Wales. I think they are playing great rugby and could go far. I think the comments by the Samoan centre are over the top.

However, Alan and Peter, I think your comments show little under understanding of the position Samoan rugby are in.

Before I go any further. I think the world cup should have a finals structure that allows an equal contest. That means similar preparation time and independent refs. Samoa where obviously impacted by the short turn around leading into the Wales game. It shouldn't happen if the IRB wants a truely crditable competition. Additionally, a welsh ref shouldn't have been appointed to their final game. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Samoa should or would have won either match, but the situation they were put in was farcical.

In terms of world rankings. We arn't talking about a level playing field for teams outside of the 6 nations and 4 nations. Samoa don't have the preparation time as a team, that the leading teams and generally play away from home. They virtually never get their top team at home (due to club commitments) and hardly play any top nations at home. I would think if the situation was reversed samoa may have entered the world cup ranked higher than Wales, Scotland and Italy.

Your comments re the south pacific countries don't stand up when you consider you have 3 and 1/4 "nations" from one country. If one used your argument you'd have England, Scotland, Wales and possibly Ireland playing for 1 spot.

Griff wrote:

TheGreyGhost wrote:Might be a misunderstanding as "gay" isn't a pejorative term in Samoa which is culturally not a homophobic society as western european countries tend to be.

Describing him in this way is probably just a judgement call from a people used to calling things as they see them.

Personally I'm not qualified to comment, having no idea of the man's orientation. But I'd be prepared to defer to experts.

Perhaps in taking offence over what may transpire to be merely a misunderstanding derived from the way the man conducts himself, we have seen some unnecessary cultural friction.

Western european countries tend to be homophobic. GG, you clearly have some intellect as evidenced by your writing style and use of prose, but you also come out with some dumb rubbish which betrays any intelligence that you may have. Where is the evidence that western european counties are any more or less homophobic that NZ or Australia, for example? I think you just like to make outrageous statements to get a reaction, which begs the question why?

I think what GG is saying, tongue in cheek, is that samoa is more enlightened than western society when it comes to homosexuality. He has a point. For instance they have a common practice known as Fa'afafine, where boys are raised as girls. By that standard most western countries are homophobic. However, I'm guessing tweet comment was intended as an insult.

blackcanelion wrote:

Griff wrote:

TheGreyGhost wrote:Might be a misunderstanding as "gay" isn't a pejorative term in Samoa which is culturally not a homophobic society as western european countries tend to be.

Describing him in this way is probably just a judgement call from a people used to calling things as they see them.

Personally I'm not qualified to comment, having no idea of the man's orientation. But I'd be prepared to defer to experts.

Perhaps in taking offence over what may transpire to be merely a misunderstanding derived from the way the man conducts himself, we have seen some unnecessary cultural friction.

Western european countries tend to be homophobic. GG, you clearly have some intellect as evidenced by your writing style and use of prose, but you also come out with some dumb rubbish which betrays any intelligence that you may have. Where is the evidence that western european counties are any more or less homophobic that NZ or Australia, for example? I think you just like to make outrageous statements to get a reaction, which begs the question why?

I think what GG is saying, tongue in cheek, is that samoa is more enlightened than western society when it comes to homosexuality. He has a point. For instance they have a common practice known as Fa'afafine, where boys are raised as girls. By that standard most western countries are homophobic. However, I'm guessing tweet comment was intended as an insult.

Yes, I'm aware of fa'afafine. The Tuilagi's one brother is a Fa'afafine. Ironically, one of the Tuilagis was arrested recently for attacking Brian Lima because Lima called their brother a derogatory homophobic name. Hardly 'enlightened' from Lima?!

Dear oh dear oh dear...yet again this highlights why players should stay off social networking for the duration of a big tournament if they can't use it sensibly. I don't understand why well known people just put up any rant on Twitter, surely they know the media will be all over it, and it makes you look like a complete tool.

As for the nature of the insults, well I'm saddened to see that sort of sh*t coming into the game.

Calling him racist is just plain stupid and the bitterness is just disgusting,
but these Islander boys certainly do have low IQ levels,the spelling and grammar of the comments make my Welsh backwards concept on English look articulate and almost Shakespearian.

Come on lads grow up this isn't wendyball.

blackcanelion wrote:Congradulations Wales. I think they are playing great rugby and could go far. I think the comments by the Samoan centre are over the top.

However, Alan and Peter, I think your comments show little under understanding of the position Samoan rugby are in.

Before I go any further. I think the world cup should have a finals structure that allows an equal contest. That means similar preparation time and independent refs. Samoa where obviously impacted by the short turn around leading into the Wales game. It shouldn't happen if the IRB wants a truely crditable competition. Additionally, a welsh ref shouldn't have been appointed to their final game. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Samoa should or would have won either match, but the situation they were put in was farcical.

In terms of world rankings. We arn't talking about a level playing field for teams outside of the 6 nations and 4 nations. Samoa don't have the preparation time as a team, that the leading teams and generally play away from home. They virtually never get their top team at home (due to club commitments) and hardly play any top nations at home. I would think if the situation was reversed samoa may have entered the world cup ranked higher than Wales, Scotland and Italy.

Your comments re the south pacific countries don't stand up when you consider you have 3 and 1/4 "nations" from one country. If one used your argument you'd have England, Scotland, Wales and possibly Ireland playing for 1 spot.

Sorry but that's rubbish, before the World Cup Samoa were stating they had never had such a good preperation prior to a World Cup with the Pacific Nations Cup and a win in Australia, before a gentle opening game against Namibia, who had only played Fiji 4 days earlier.

Samoa knew the turnaround of days before kick off against Wales, and did not have to select their first team against Namibia many of their players play for the most prestigious clubs in Europe and they have depth that many tier 1 countries don't have. The bottom line is that their coach gambled and lost against Wales, I have no sympathy at all. Wales beat Namibia after making 11 changes, Samoa could of done this also.

I specifically made a thread as soon as Samoa announced their team pointing out this glaring error, if I can see the problem then surely they could of?

The debate over Samoa has been concluded in my eyes, if they want money to fund their game, they need to understand that it has to be generated from TV revenue, if they want longer rests then we can go back to a 16 team tournament in which case, they would of stayed in Samoa, along with Romania, Russia and the USA who wouldn't of qualified.
If they don't want IRB hand outs then they can generate their own money like the rest of us try to do.

viewtothegym wrote:Calling him racist is just plain stupid and the bitterness is just disgusting,
but these Islander boys certainly do have low IQ levels,the spelling and grammar of the comments make my Welsh backwards concept on English look articulate and almost Shakespearian.

Come on lads grow up this isn't wendyball.

Can't believe how much childish patronising paff is being aimed at Samoa for some drunken Twittering. Frankly that's a whole lot less destructive than Tindall's drunken fondling or Ashton and co's harassment of a female hotel worker. Surely going home and taking out the frustrations on the interweb is a whole lot less offensive than carrying on like a bunch of up themselves private school boys who've slipped the masters cane.

TheGreyGhost wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:Calling him racist is just plain stupid and the bitterness is just disgusting,
but these Islander boys certainly do have low IQ levels,the spelling and grammar of the comments make my Welsh backwards concept on English look articulate and almost Shakespearian.

Come on lads grow up this isn't wendyball.

Can't believe how much childish patronising paff is being aimed at Samoa for some drunken Twittering. Frankly that's a whole lot less destructive than Tindall's drunken fondling or Ashton and co's harassment of a female hotel worker. Surely going home and taking out the frustrations on the interweb is a whole lot less offensive than carrying on like a bunch of up themselves private school boys who've slipped the masters cane.

yawn to the lot of it- who flaming cares. jeas get over it- the hotel girl is after some newspaper story bunce, tindall got drunk- oh gosh shock horror- and wow the somoams cant spell- like we didnt know that all ready!, ironically neither can i yet am still successfull!!

stop being sponges for the media- Thats my advice!!

So threatening to behead someone is "taking out your frustrations on the interweb",

Tindall and co are idiots and so are the Samoan public for being such sore loser.