Ulster v Treviso Fri. 7th Oct

Ulster have named their team for their RaboDirect PRO12 match against Treviso at Ravenhill this Friday (kick off 7.05pm).

Ulster: J Payne; C Gilroy, D Cave, N Spence, I Whitten; I Humphreys, P Marshall; D Fitzpatrick, A Kyriacou, J Cronin, T Barker, D Tuohy, P Wannenburg, M McComish, C Henry (capt).

Replacements: N Brady, K McCall, A Macklin, L Stevenson, R Diack, I Porter, P Jackson, A D'Arcy.
Backs

Back at Fortress Ravenhill this week after two disappointing sorties into Wales. Certainly a game we should win but there have been some strange results already this season so we shouldn't take anything for granted.
Hopefully Humphries etc. will be fit and give us the boost we need.

I think if Humphreys, Cave and Payne all start we should be good. The real concerns are up-front for Ulster. We lack direction without Muller, compounding the failure to replace Jeremy Davidson with a full-time forwards coach. I believe we will be fine with Muller back, but right now the pack needs a lot of work. Treviso will provide a big test for us. I'm confident a vocal Ravenhill will inspire the forwards to dig a lot deeper than the apathetic displays in Wales, which were massively disappointing for me. We must be loud and proud come Friday! Our team needs us.

I forgot as Muller was the forwards coach this year and away at the world cup we didn't have a forwards coach till he returns.

Think Ulster weren't expecting SA to call him up and have now got caught a little short in this department. Maybe a short term contact should have be offered to someone during Mullers time in the world cup?

Good to get an Italian team at home at this stage as we really need to get back to winning ways, though Teviso are no push overs!

Have to agree with Notch that if Humphreys, Cave and Payne all start we should be good.

Notch wrote:I think if Humphreys, Cave and Payne all start we should be good. The real concerns are up-front for Ulster. We lack direction without Muller, compounding the failure to replace Jeremy Davidson with a full-time forwards coach. I believe we will be fine with Muller back, but right now the pack needs a lot of work. Treviso will provide a big test for us. I'm confident a vocal Ravenhill will inspire the forwards to dig a lot deeper than the apathetic displays in Wales, which were massively disappointing for me. We must be loud and proud come Friday! Our team needs us.

Notch I think even last season there were periods were the forwards were a little indisciplined and seemed to be constantly making the same mistakes and not grasping where they were going wrong.

Ulster (15-9): J Payne; C Gilroy, D Cave, N Spence, I Whitten; I Humphreys, P Marshall;
(1-8): D Fitzpatrick, A Kyriacou, J Cronin, T Barker, D Tuohy, P Wannenburg, M McComish, C Henry (c);
Replacements (16-23): N Brady, K McCall, A Macklin, L Stevenson, R Diack, I Porter, P Jackson, A D'Arcy

It's good to see those guys back. I would expect a win by at least two scores.

Mike McComish is making a big impression by all accounts, so it's great to see him getting a start.

I hope Paul Marshall improves his performance as I feel he has not been great for the past couple of games.

Surprised Marshall got the start over Porter.

Good to see Cave, Ihumph and Payne back and we need to get back to winning ways here.

I think the forcast is pretty awful so it mightn't be a great night for expansive rugby.

rodders its meant to rain tomorrow morning and afternoon but should stop by the evening, will be bit of a breeze though from what Ive heard

I'm incredibly disappointed Ian Porter isn't starting. Marshall frightens me, a lot.

Actually Notch, this time last year a lot of people (I mean a lot) were actually calling for Marshall to be picked ahead of Piennaar. Amazing really. He is very erratic at the present time. Maybe the pressure of being No.1 at the minute is too much for him. Also the last two games he had a rookie outside him. Maybe with iHumph back he will settle down and turn in a better performance. One thing though McLaughlin has no fear about changing things so Porter will get on if he isn't doing the business.

Rava wrote:Actually Notch, this time last year a lot of people (I mean a lot) were actually calling for Marshall to be picked ahead of Piennaar. Amazing really. He is very erratic at the present time. Maybe the pressure of being No.1 at the minute is too much for him. Also the last two games he had a rookie outside him. Maybe with iHumph back he will settle down and turn in a better performance. One thing though McLaughlin has no fear about changing things so Porter will get on if he isn't doing the business.

Just a slight defense on that Rava, as i was one of those people. We werent calling for Piennaar not to play, we wanted marshall at 9 and Piennaar at 10, and you have to take into consideration Humphs form at the time (Marshall was playing better than Humph).

But certainly Marshall has been dire this season. I felt though, at times its been his livewire style of play that has got the team going. Unfortunatly, without the experienced heads in the team to support (and clean up), his antics arnt worth the risk.

Marshall has been Marshall, he does something great like a brilliant break or big tackle then does something idiotic like knock on under no pressure or kick the ball out on the full. He's like a worse version of TOL.

He's getting plenty off games but doesn't seem to be getting any more reliable.

I don't see the risk of starting with Porter when Marshall is such an eratic player, it's not like he's the safe option. Porter looked far better when he came on last week and we looked a different side with his service.

Is faloon injured, or did he just miss out? i've been really impressed by his beard lately.

Well done Treviso!

That was very disappointing from Ulster for all but about 10 mins though.

Anyone understand the "let's put another hooker in the front row" decision?

Not that that was why we lost, just didn't really understand.

Firstly, big well done to Treviso, they have taken a massive step forward from being the side most teams saw as an easy win. Hope they continue to have a great season.

Secondly, what is wrong with Ulster? It is hard to contemplate what has changed since last season. I don't want the excuses about youth. These guys all started planty last year and there were times when we were down to the bare bones through 6N and injury, and even then we were boasting about the ability of our youngsters and our new found strength in depth.

As for Payne, he hasn't had much chance so far, but in the (limited) time he has been able to play, i have yet to see much spark. Premature on my part i know, but i'm just trying to challenge some possible excuses I can see being thrown up. On paper, that team underperformed.

I don't really understand the scrum in terms of infringements, but twice now ulster have conceded penalty tries from scrums. Is it our inability, or is there something other teams have learnt to target us with?

If we take away that penalty try and that lovely chip from darcy straight into Burtons hands, that game was ours.

I'm just really gutted after tonight, I may sound a bit harsh, but I just hope theres someone within Ulster who knows the problem, and fixes it, pronto! If its mentality, thats worrying, how can trainers/coaches influence that?

The penalty try was utterly wrong by the referee, never in my life have I seen such incompetency in the scrum refereeing. And I play in the front row.

Yeah, pretty abysmal really. I've no idea how we can play so far below what we are capable of.

Jared Payne has tweeted "Not good news, Achilles not in one piece anymore. Season over." He subsequently removed it, but it basically looks like we'll be without him for a long time.

JmD I'll respect your playing in the front row mate but that was a stoner of a pen try.
Treviso front row engineered it and we fell for it. Brady came on, presumably because we thought it would be too big a thing for our 19yo prop and proceeded to bind on his own knee. You can argue the Treviso hooker popped up first but the rot was set well before that.
Blame the ref all you want but we got what we deserved from this game - Sweet Fanny Adams

Notch wrote:Jared Payne has tweeted "Not good news, Achilles not in one piece anymore. Season over." He subsequently removed it, but it basically looks like we'll be without him for a long time.

Disaster Notch

We have a break now for two weeks and then Scarlets away. They got a morale boosting win tonight. If Ireland do win in the morning we will have to go there with this team. I don't have any confidence in getting a result. After that guys, we are into the HC. We would need to be at the top of our game going into those our our season could effectively be over before the end of November.

It's that Flip bad!!

What happened to him? I arrived late and D'arcy was already on. We were very subdued tonight, poor body language and seemed to be waiting for Treviso to make the plays. No initiative or spark really!

Didn't look too bad on TV but he went into contact and stayed down. When the physio came on they signalled for a replacement straight away.
Of all the luck? heh?

Such a shame, hope we can look after him and keep his spirits up. I need a babysitter if he is free, and I have all the gear from Musgrave when I snapped mine!!

Rava wrote:JmD I'll respect your playing in the front row mate but that was a stoner of a pen try.
Treviso front row engineered it and we fell for it. Brady came on, presumably because we thought it would be too big a thing for our 19yo prop and proceeded to bind on his own knee. You can argue the Treviso hooker popped up first but the rot was set well before that.
Blame the ref all you want but we got what we deserved from this game - Sweet Fanny Adams

It wasn't the Brady incident that was wrong (obviously a hooker playing at loosehead is going to give away a penalty), it was the fact that none of the penalties leading up to it should have been given. I haven't watched it back yet, but from what I could see the Treviso prop actually broke his bind, grabbed Fitzpatrick's arm and forced his hand on to the floor. That was what Fitzpatrick was sent off for. Treviso knew exactly what they were doing. He had done it for a few scrums in a row, and when the referee came across to look at it they collapsed it on the other side so that they could do it again. Why the touch judge didn't say anything I will never know.

Treviso did what all front rows do and should do, and played the ref, much as Scotland did to England last week. The Ulster front row were unable to find any answers.

As an aside, a penalty try should not be given solely for multiple offences, it has to be that a try would have been scored but for the infringement, and I am not 100% convinced that on the occasion that he gave the penalty try the Ulster 8 would have been pushed over. Having said that, as Rava has said, Ulster go what they deserved out there tonight. Poor performance.

How long will it be before the World Cup boys will be back playing? Will they be available for Scarlets? Or will they get a longer rest period than that?
(not that Paddy needs a rest!)

Treviso deserve a lot of credit for playing smarter than Ulster.

However it's games like this that undermine all my confidence in McLaughlin. Why pick McCall on the bench if he can't come on? Fair enough Court's away, Black and Big Mac are injured, but McL's only cover plan for Fitz was Brady? Would McCall have felt any worse getting a chance on the pitch than knowing the coach has zero faith in him? Macklin made a big difference when he came on so at least that was a positive.

The injury to Payne is worrying and if he hadn't been subbed I'd have expected Jackson to replace Humphreys who had a nightmare. It was the tight five that were really disappointing though and looked to be far lower quality than Treviso. In fact out of the fifteen only Wannenburg, Henry and Spence can hold their heads up as doing the shirt justice.

Some of Italy's played last night. If they are home this week and we don't play until 28/29th then there's no reason why any of them shouldn't be available.
Wallace, Trimble and Court especially. Whether we see Muller, Piennar and Afoa in time will depend on results tomorrow.

Ozzy3213 wrote:Treviso did what all front rows do and should do, and played the ref, much as Scotland did to England last week. The Ulster front row were unable to find any answers.

As an aside, a penalty try should not be given solely for multiple offences, it has to be that a try would have been scored but for the infringement, and I am not 100% convinced that on the occasion that he gave the penalty try the Ulster 8 would have been pushed over. Having said that, as Rava has said, Ulster go what they deserved out there tonight. Poor performance.

Yeah, they played the ref. I was very disappointed with the referees interpretations, I feel he was struggling a bit out there with the scrummaging, but we deserved what we got. Zip.

I don't think we could have brought on McCall. Not sure it would have been entirely safe for him against that Treviso pack.

Lads the ref is obviously inexperienced and he wasnt much good (not helped by incompetent TJ's) but as has been said what did Ulster actually do to deserve something from this game?

The only plan seemed to be Spence on the crash ball which was food and drink to the italians. A lot of questions need asked of McLaughlin. The Brady substituion was ridiculous. Dont pick a young lad in the squad if you dont have thre stones to use him. We are playing games with 2 TH's while we leave our most impressive one on the bench.

Did Porter get on last night? How bad does Paul Marshall have to play before we drop him? Similarly iHumph has a shocker but 1st game back from injury and with the service he was getting im not surprised. Henry again was a non entity for me and previously when he seemed to be able to build a rapport with the ref, now he just seems bitchy. McLaughlin picks the team and he isnt rewarding performances accordingly.

Excruciating.

Notch wrote:I don't think we could have brought on McCall. Not sure it would have been entirely safe for him against that Treviso pack.

So why was he in the 23?

Got to agree with Aukster on that one. At the very least you would bring on Macklin so that the front row comprises 2 props. Bizarre and disastrous call.

You need to have three specialist front row players in the 23 Aukster, it's the laws.

They had Macklin stripped and ready to go but decided to put Brady in instead. Not sure why. Weird call.

Confirmed on BBC, Payne is gone for the season;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15227951.stm?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Been a pretty shoite 24 hours for Ulster and Ireland fans!

Trimby, Court and Wallace to come back in for the Scarlets game- maybe Rory and Ferris as well. Danielli to fullback and Porter to 9 please!

Feck this is the weekend from hell! At least England lost

What a shambles last night was. Our scrum was absolutely demolished. Chris Henry was the only forward who played with any passion or intensity.

It's a real reality check for some of the players who think teams are going to lie down for us based on what we did last season.

Henry, Tuohy, Spence and Cave are the only players who came out of that drubbing with any credit.

Humphreys has had a nightmare start to the season and Marshall was poor again. The sooner Pienaar returns the better but Jackson and Porter could do a better job right now.

I thought Gilroy was our best player actually. I can't say anyone from 1-10 was good at all. Porter I agree with. Jackson wasn't better than Humphreys when he had those two games either. Give Humph a wee bit of time. For the pack, a harsher dose of medicine is needed. Three Ireland boys straight back in and a massive kick up the backside to be administered by McLaughs. Deccie Fitz back to tighthead and Court to loosehead with Best should sort our set scrum out a lot.

Gotta feel for Payne. 3 games into a big money move and you're out for the season. Coaching role?

Who will we see covering fullback? D'Arcy will start probably, though he has not been very good lately. Who else do we have?

Danielli or Gilroy are well capable. Paddy W if we're really stuck, but we'd have to push a kitten through an electric fan to get such bad karma.

Watched the highlights incredibly painful. We don't half need Muller back. Come on you Ozzies!

Notch wrote:I thought Gilroy was our best player actually. I can't say anyone from 1-10 was good at all. Porter I agree with. Jackson wasn't better than Humphreys when he had those two games either. Give Humph a wee bit of time. For the pack, a harsher dose of medicine is needed. Three Ireland boys straight back in and a massive kick up the backside to be administered by McLaughs. Deccie Fitz back to tighthead and Court to loosehead with Best should sort our set scrum out a lot.

1. Agree
2. Agree and he should have started given Marshalls performances
3. Bo££ocks. We have been saying this every year since he came back to us. The guy needs to get a grip. Some of his kicking from hand last night was woeful. And there were the two passes he threw and didn't even look to see if anyone was there. He has to step up. He's a senior player but he isn't playing like one.

Clearly Humph is currently our best 10. What i wonder is that would we not be better exposing Jackson so that in a few years we have him up to speed. To be honest i am quite reactionary after a bad weekend but i cant help but feel we need to accept a few bad performances from the young guys in order to move forward. Marshall (Luke) needs gametime. We have two talented youngsters who arent or wont get significant gametime when the big guys return.

Chris Henry needs a boot up the rear for my money rodders. I thought he was anonymous. Wannenburg was decent last night but that was it. Gilroy looks dangerous every time but he isnt getting a chance really.

I've obviously watched a different Ulster in a parallel universe. In the game I saw Humphreys had a shocker kicking out of hand and off the tee, his passing made Marshall look like William Tell. Jackson on the other hand did very well for a rookie dropped in at the deep end behind two woeful forward performances in Wales. Last season Humphreys took several games to settle down before starting to play some great rugby, and he is the only experienced 10 Ulster have so he needs to be persevered with, but on current form Jackson is a viable bench option to come on if Humph has another mare.

Jackson wont get near the bench when Pienaar and Wallace come back though aukster.

Humphreys kicking from hand was poor. Jacksons was equally poor. Couldn't say Humphreys was better, but he is more experienced and will likely come good. Jacko is a bit raw yet.

I think it will be Wallace at 12, with Cave and D'Arcy/Danielli on the bench.

I dont know notch. Its something that bothers me. I wouldnt necessarily start Jackson with Paul Marshall. when Pienaar returns i wouldnt mind. I agree with you it wont happen. we can speculate on here and the guys on here i dont think would mind seeing Jackson learn on the job even if it costs us at times. the majority of fans though would not share that view

The Ozzies won! Our Saffers are on the way home! The season is saved!

Guys I know we have been desperate that wallace is now labelled as an out and out centre, but seriously in the current situation can anyone deny that

9 pienaar
10 Wallace
12 spence
13 cave

wouldnt be a heck of a lot better than humph at 10 and one of spence or cave missing out? Do we have to go back on our beliefs and revert to wallace at 10? Humph might force our hand if he continues his poor form.

Danielli to fullback definatly, darcy worries me, and gilroy doesnt deserve to lose out.

Thank you Ozzieland!