Japan - Rafa's first defence away from clay?

As others have noted, a surprising gap in the list of Nadal's achievements is that he's never defended a title away from clay. This week he is two matches away from defending the Japan Open on HC. A SF against Fish, who beat him at Cincinnati, and a likely finalist from the other side of the draw in Murray. I for one can't really work out what Rafa's doing in Japan adding to the big tally of matches he's played this year (unless they're paying him a lot) and whilst he's obviously the favourite, I have a feeling that he'll fall at one of those hurdles.

He's playing his part in reducing the workload of a busy season.

I just realized that if he doesnt win this tournament and since he hasnt won anything out of his beloved clay this year, atleast till Oct 12, he will be known as the one who never defended a title outside of clay. He may be too old by then to win and then defend a title outside clay - will he retire with this dubious distinction?

Wow - since I dont know, can anybody tell me if there has ever been anyone who has won over 20 titles with such a bad record outside of his/her favorite surface.

So much for is all-court abilities! And that is despite considerable homogenity now across surfaces!

But since I have jinxed it - I think the defensive baseliner will win an ugly match against Fish and Murray will surrender against his master, as usual, despite having a better game on fast courts.

Btw, Djokovic plays a high physical game for 8 months and he is injured - Rafa has been doing that for 7 years now and he is still going strong. I was convinced 4 years back that he will not be able to play beyond 25 or 26 but not for the first time, I hold my head in amazement over Nadal,s exploits on a tennis court despite never been able to find anything better that he can do against a guy inside top 50 on a tennis court (except for running, ofcourse)!! Bravo - what an acheivement for such a one-dimensional player!

Fedex_the_best wrote:I just realized that if he doesnt win this tournament and since he hasnt won anything out of his beloved clay this year, atleast till Oct 12, he will be known as the one who never defended a title outside of clay.

I have a feeling that he will be known for reasons other than that, such as 10 slams and joint (for now) most wins at Roland Garros. It is interesting and curious that he's never defended a non-clay title, but merely a footnote in the wider scheme of things. You seem to have a lot of bile towards Nadal, long may he continue to get your goat.

P4S, yes - he will be known for all that but this will definitely be coming up if anyone ever opens an argument for his all-court game!

Anyways, I don't hate him and have nothing against him - just that I dislike his brand of tennis very very much; much more than I disliked anybody's game in any sports, ever!!

"It's my ninth year on the tour, and its completely the same feeling every year," Nadal told reporters. "You don't have the chance to stop, never. I think for that situation we have a shorter career. So having a different model of ranking, of competition, I think we can have longer career, no? I [am] almost 25, but seems like I am playing for 100 years here on the tour. I didn't spend a weekend at home since the week of Davis Cup before Indian Wells. That's too much. Tennis is a very demanding sport mentally and physically. I won Roland Garros five times, but next Monday I am practicing on Queen's. So that's makes the career shorter for everybody.

"We have four Grand Slams, we have nine Masters 1000, and the year is 12 months. I know that they're gonna reduce two week but, seriously, is not enough. [We are not ] gonna have these changes for my generation, but hopefully for the next generations to have a better sports life. Because I think you need two months, two months and a half of rest at the end of the season. You have to practice. I never able to practice and to try to improve the things during the off-season, and that's something I think terrible....Sometimes it's like work. And, in my opinion, tennis is not work. It's passion."



...you fool no one Rafito.

Josiah Maiestas wrote:"It's my ninth year on the tour, and its completely the same feeling every year," Nadal told reporters. "You don't have the chance to stop, never. I think for that situation we have a shorter career. So having a different model of ranking, of competition, I think we can have longer career, no? I [am] almost 25, but seems like I am playing for 100 years here on the tour. I didn't spend a weekend at home since the week of Davis Cup before Indian Wells. That's too much. Tennis is a very demanding sport mentally and physically. I won Roland Garros five times, but next Monday I am practicing on Queen's. So that's makes the career shorter for everybody.

"We have four Grand Slams, we have nine Masters 1000, and the year is 12 months. I know that they're gonna reduce two week but, seriously, is not enough. [We are not ] gonna have these changes for my generation, but hopefully for the next generations to have a better sports life. Because I think you need two months, two months and a half of rest at the end of the season. You have to practice. I never able to practice and to try to improve the things during the off-season, and that's something I think terrible....Sometimes it's like work. And, in my opinion, tennis is not work. It's passion."



...you fool no one Rafito.

He shoudl be happy science extended his career cause first the foot operation and then PRP treatments saved him from a very short career. He and toni brought the lawn tennis game to a boxing ring and then complains about it. I am sure he knows that had the game favoured the talented players instead of the physical ones, he woudl have won on clay only. I wish he coudl stop complaining. If you cannot win easily, at least he should accept the losses gracefully. he is clearly saying that it's tough cause he cannot bring his physical game week in week out. That's weird!

Fedex_the_best wrote:P4S, yes - he will be known for all that but this will definitely be coming up if anyone ever opens an argument for his all-court game!

Anyways, I don't hate him and have nothing against him - just that I dislike his brand of tennis very very much; much more than I disliked anybody's game in any sports, ever!!

That's fair enough. A stronger argument in his favour are his successes at each of the other slams, but I agree that is a point of discussion in the same way that Federer's head-to-head with Nadal will always crop up in discussions about him, despite that being swamped by the sheer magnitude of his other successes.

Of course, you are entitled to have that view of his game. I have never felt that strongly, in a negative way, about anyone in any sport and prefer to focus my energies on those that I do like, but each to their own.

Tenez wrote: He shoudl be happy science extended his career cause first the foot operation and then PRP treatments saved him from a very short career. ...

I am not aware of the details of the foot operation but it does seem that platement rich plasma treatment has allowed Rafael Nadal to overcome the "chronic" tendon damage to his knees that threatened to shorten his career in 2009.

His return to elite level performance in 2010, starting in earnest at the beginning of the clay season, where he won "everything" on clay, going on to win the French Open, Wimbledon and the US Open, was nothing short of miraculous. PRP treatment is still in its infancy but appears to be revolutionising the treatment of tendon and ligament injury.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platelet-rich_plasma

To be fair, if not for Novak's amazing year, Rafa most likely would have successfully defended his US Open 2010 and Wimbledon 2010 titles. Remember, despite everything, he has won a slam this year and has been a runner-up in two other slams.

Most players on the ATP Tour would consider this a very successful year.

With Novak and Federer out of competition for the entire Asian swing, I simply can't believe how ridiculous all that US open moaning about long season from Nadal and Murray looks now...It's embarrassing!
I don't know if it's me, but Murray looks like Nadal's errand boy in all this.

Yeah it's strange how although they are not happy with the schedule they are actually giving some crediblity to the tour by playing the Asian swing. Maybe some of the less vocal players who haven't turned up should say why they haven't (btw I accept that Djokovic is injured).

noleisthebest wrote:With Novak and Federer out of competition for the entire Asian swing, I simply can't believe how ridiculous all that US open moaning about long season from Nadal and Murray looks now...It's embarrassing!
I don't know if it's me, but Murray looks like Nadal's errand boy in all this.

I suppose its because they have to honour contract deals that they are playing over there. But they still have a point about the season being cramped, I bet they just want to kick the dust off their heels and get the ball moving, if they dont moan then nothing will ever get done.

Positively 4th Street wrote:
That's fair enough. A stronger argument in his favour are his successes at each of the other slams, but I agree that is a point of discussion in the same way that Federer's head-to-head with Nadal will always crop up in discussions about him, despite that being swamped by the sheer magnitude of his other successes.

This h2h may look like a strong argument, but it isn't. It sounds like this: If Federer had lost all those FO slams and other clay masters before meeting Nadal, he would have become a better player. On the other hand Nadal, by loosing in earlier rounds to much lesser players in AO, USO, 2005 wimbledon immediately after winning his FO, not playing wimby 2009 and AO 2006, he becomes a better player. So someone can become a better player by actually losing?? Poor Roger, why did he have to play good to reach 4 consequtive FO finals? Why did he reach the FO 2011 finals defeating 'Mr. invincible' Djo producing one of the most sublime matches ever played on clay .

Earlier loses would have made him a better player in the eyes of some people just because it keeps the h2h more balanced.

Murray will find a way to lose this just as he did in NY with Rafa looking for the errors. Never back a stagnated player!

fedex - I know that the once dubbed 'king of clay' thomas muster won over 40 titles and everyone bar a few were on clay and he was no1 and won the french. He never made it past the first round at wimbledon!! :O but made the semi's at aus and quarters at the US.
But to say that rafa doesnt have all court abilities is the most ridiculous thing to say about someone who has completed a career slam! sort it out man!

LuvSports! wrote:fedex - I know that the once dubbed 'king of clay' thomas muster won over 40 titles and everyone bar a few were on clay and he was no1 and won the french. He never made it past the first round at wimbledon!! :O but made the semi's at aus and quarters at the US.
But to say that rafa doesnt have all court abilities is the most ridiculous thing to say about someone who has completed a career slam! sort it out man!

Thanks LuvSports for this - I really wanted to know!
Dont agree with the second part as he wins on all courts but with playing his baseline clay court attritional tennis rallies. His defensive game and physicality carries him home on hard courts also but doesnt seem to have perceptible tennis skills suited for hard courts imho.

Btw, does anyone here like hard hitting - I do and I am having a good time watching Berdych-Tsonga. Berdych at his best hits with easy power - he is hitting majestically hard and painting the lines and making Tsonga run all around. Berdych can really do damages if he plays like this.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Nadal defend Tokyo. His priorities have switched from worthwhile tournaments in April and May to pointless small fish tournaments in the middle of nowhere, purely for the devil's gold.

To not bother defending anything off clay up untill now shows incredible discipline from Nadal, discipline that appears to be slipping out of reach...

And he fails again. Nadal becomes the all time successful one dimensional player.

Next chance Olympic Games where Rafa defends his title won on HC at Wimbledon - a surface that is well suited to him.

I wish I was as poor on hard courts and grass as Rafa - 11 hard court titles including 2 slams and a handful of MS 1000 events, plus 3 grass court tiles including 2 Wimbledons. Must add up to a few million dollars in prize money even away from his best surface.

The failure to defend any of these titles is a curious anomaly (noting that he missed the opportunity to defend his Wimbledon title because of injury), but I don't think its a big deal, and it clearly isn't a mental think because he's defended plenty of titles on clay. It would be a surprise if this record holds until the end of his career (watch him now go and with the year end champs this year and next...)

Yes, he is perhaps the most limited of the top 4 players in terms of all-round shot making, but that still makes him better than virtually anyone else in the world. Also shows that athletic ability and mental strength also play their part in professional sport success

dummy_half wrote:I wish I was as poor on hard courts and grass as Rafa - 11 hard court titles including 2 slams and a handful of MS 1000 events, plus 3 grass court tiles including 2 Wimbledons. Must add up to a few million dollars in prize money even away from his best surface.

The failure to defend any of these titles is a curious anomaly (noting that he missed the opportunity to defend his Wimbledon title because of injury), but I don't think its a big deal, and it clearly isn't a mental think because he's defended plenty of titles on clay. It would be a surprise if this record holds until the end of his career (watch him now go and with the year end champs this year and next...)

Yes, he is perhaps the most limited of the top 4 players in terms of all-round shot making, but that still makes him better than virtually anyone else in the world. Also shows that athletic ability and mental strength also play their part in professional sport success

I dont know whether you saw it or not but the usual chirpiness of Nadal was not there during the third set yesterday. His head was dropping and no Vamos or fist pump came. To me, he looked dead tired. I wonder why he keeps on playing all these tournaments post USO while he almost never does well in any of them.

BTW, with the top 8 for London almost getting finalized, Nadal will face a very difficult challenge - except for the top 4, there are flat power hitters in the form of Berdych and Tsonga and a genuine fast hard court player in Fish almost certain to make thorugh. Ferrer looks a mis-match and would be the one everyone wants in their group at fast O2.

Also, those who didnt watch Berdych in Beijing, I would advise to keep an eye on him. Japan Open took all the limelight but I think Berdych was outstanding in Beijing. He is in Nadal's quarter in Shanghai (upset alert - you heard it first here!) and I think he is ready to make a deep run in the WTF final like JMDP in 2009!

Fedex
Nadal made the final at the O2 last year, so while obvioulsy both groups will be tough (well, other than Ferrer) on courts that suit other players better, the group stages shouldn't hold too many fears for Rafa.

As for Berdych, we all know he can play extremely well, but he (as with most of the really big hitters such as Tsonga and Soderling) does not have the consistency to string the results together week on week. Yes, he may beat Rafa this week, but also it would be no surprise to see him losing his first round match while being almost entirely unable to land a ball in the court.

dummy_half wrote:Fedex
Nadal made the final at the O2 last year, so while obvioulsy both groups will be tough (well, other than Ferrer) on courts that suit other players better, the group stages shouldn't hold too many fears for Rafa.

As for Berdych, we all know he can play extremely well, but he (as with most of the really big hitters such as Tsonga and Soderling) does not have the consistency to string the results together week on week. Yes, he may beat Rafa this week, but also it would be no surprise to see him losing his first round match while being almost entirely unable to land a ball in the court.

I agree but I think Berdych is maturing. He has never gone on a stretch of three tournaments playing well and except for his injury, he would have done better at Cinci and USO. Also, I think Tsonga and Berdych would be a threat to anyone in the big 4. Ferrer looks like he will lose all three matches - nothing against him but dont think fast O2 is quite suited for him esp. when the big 4 or Berdych, Tsonga and Fish being on the other side.

Anything can happen but I am super excited about Berdych. Let's see - I hope he continues playing well!

Nadal could yet again make the final because we all know he is a superb match player and he can push himself to limits (and he has the added motivation of never being able to win this). But last year, he beat Andy Roddick in three tight sets and then Djoker had eye infection and Andy Murray nearly took him out in the semis. I think that Nadal and everyone else will have it much more difficult this year as comapred to the last year when it was essentially still a Fed-Nadal duopoly at the top! I wont be surprised if even the super Djoker of 2011 doesnt make it past the group stages this time around if unfortuantely he has Fed, Berdych and Tsonga in his group!

The reason for Nadal not competing in the latter half of the Japan final was made clear when he was interviewed at the trophy ceremony.

Asked where his team had dissapeared to he said they were in a hurry as they had a plane to catch. Nadal and his team had obviously booked an early flight to Shanghai predicting that he would have the match wrapped up in two short sets. When he foolishly lost his serve from 30-0 up he had no choice. The quickest way to get off the court as quickly as possable was to do his best not to win any more points.

barrystar wrote:Next chance Olympic Games where Rafa defends his title won on HC at Wimbledon - a surface that is well suited to him.

Good spot!

One might add "last chance".