Wales v France Team Thread Discussion etc etc

by bedfordwelsh Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 9:52

OK so I have done one of these after all our games so why change now.

First off unless injury forces it has to be the same 22 again come Saturday:

Front Row - are getting the better of most with Jenkins and Jones now getting back to best and whilst Bennett has come in for some strong criticism off me in the past he has been invaluable and has always been a strong scrummager.

2nd Row & Back Row - Charteris was again immense in 1st half whilst AWJ is again getting back to his best form, along with the back row they will have gained huge confidence in the way the competed and bettered the Irish 2nd & back row with Warburton again outstanding.

Phillips and Priestland have been great partnership and those saying JD2 should have been dropped must be mad.

Shane proves he still knows way to try line and Halfpenny proved he can more than play XV at top level. A lot of pre match was about North but he had a quiet game and it didn't affect us with otheres stepping up to the mark.

So to the Semi, I still think I would have rather been playing England because they are predictable at the moment and France are France as we all say.

They will be dangerous as they now know they have a sniff at the final spot and it seems the players are just ignoring Lievremont and playing. Harinordquay(sp) & Dusatoir were fantastic on Saturday and will be another huge test for our young back row who must be on the steepest learning curve ever.

Have France had their big game or do they have one more in the tank, if we replicate our performance then whilst I think the scoreboard will be close we will win comfortably.

God my nerves kicking already will be a jibbering wreck come KO on Saturday.

by dogtooth Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 10:08

i am a lot more relaxed about this one. i am confident that wales will win, but win or lose i am going to enjoy the match.

by bedfordwelsh Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 10:19

dog,

I won't be relaxed until the final whistle or one of the teams (hopefully us) are out of sight of the other.

But your right I will enjoy this match and am home for the weekend to so just got to try and find a suitable watering hole for the game.

by maestegmafia Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 10:23

As I have said previously Wales have already exceeded my expectations of our ability to compete at this world cup. Anything from here onwards is a bonus.

But reading the french newspapers today I was surprised to see that many journalists seem a touch despondent after their win on Saturday. They are unconvinced of the ability of the team to take this further than a semis spot.

I didn't think France were all that good against england. Wales seem to improve every game in all facets, learning from mistakes. France do not.

That French performance was no different to the performance they gave against Canada. Solid enough to win, but lacking anything to make you think they can be a dominant force.

The French do worry me as there are some great players in that side, there are also combinations that know each other well and will improve this week. Front row, second row, back row, the two 9.5s starting to look clever, mermoz, Marty, rougerie all accomplished and very dangerous. The pace and skill of that back three...!

France aren't a convincing semi finalist, they don't look better than some teams that have already gone home. But that said Wales will really have to step it up against them, Wales will have to improve in all areas, particularly defence, you have to constantly strive to improve to become worthy finalists.

by Cardiff Taffy Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 10:36

The boys have already done themselves proud but I for one am a nervous wreck. Again I will be watching the clock till next Saturday and it's never ticked so slowly.

As for the teaWhatever Gats choses is right, he is God! For me though same 22 and same 15...

by doctornickolas Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 11:56

Not a great France team though.

The Welsh tactics played so far are perfect for playing the French as it will frustrate them. The tries they did score were poor poor defending from England, so not really worried about them to be honest.

I Am 100% confident.

by samuraidragon Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 12:13

Same 15, same 22 - but a very different challenge. Don't let's underestimate a French team that was up 16-0 at half-time, mainly through physically dominating England. Our backs had a field day running through Darcy and O'Gara, but France have Rougerie in the backs and a very powerful back-row. Heymans on he bench is pretty strong option too.

Let's hope we get Parra at 10, because Trinh-Duc is serious quality. Yachvilli's place kicking likewise.

by maestegmafia Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 12:25

I am not 100% confident.

France are not a great team by any means but they do have some great players. Great players win matches.

For Wales to do well they have to be self critical, they have to improve. We conceded points to the Irish. We gave them a soft try. We have conceded quite a few soft tries this RWC. Two vs SA, one vs Namibia and one vs Ireland. We have to be better.

The aim has to be to not just convincingly demolish France by more points than the all blacks did, but to improve as we do it. Stop them getting on the score board.

We need that attitude to win the world cup. If we don't have that extra ability we can't fool ourselves that we will win.

The most exciting thing about this welsh team is the potential for the future, immediate and distant. They have improved each game, they do learn from mistakes, they are talented and young. But we can not be complacent. The great all black, australian, south African and English teams that have won RWCs before were not.

We have to be that good to win.

by samuraidragon Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 12:35

We've also given away hatfuls of penalties at the breakdown, missed penalties and drops, and were second best in territory and possessions for large stretches of the game agaisnt Ireland.

In fact, I can't understand this complacency about France. They have a strong scrum, strong lineout, strong back-row, excellent goal-kicking and some game-breaking backs. They disposed of Ireland easily in the warm-ups, and the England game was over by half-time.

by RubyGuby Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 12:36

The game remains another 50/50 battle. I felt we had another gear on Saturday but we need to stifle this French team and not let them get a good start. If we can nullify them, which we are pretty good at on the evidence so far we have a good chance of winning. Lets not start playing chuck ball with the french though, please! thumbsup

by Morgannwg Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 12:38

I was secretly a critic of JD2 but as the tournament has gone on he has really come of age. No changes to the team required however perhaps a change of tactics; Roberts or Davies won't be able to run through Marty/Mermoz and Rougerie. A lot of strength and firepower in both teams here.

by Guest Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 12:47

in a strange way, I actually think these two teams are even more evenly matched than the Wales v Ireland game. When you think of the like for like palyers in the positions it's difficult to pick out where either side is better. Perhaps France have the edge in the 2nd row.

I'm going to be having nightmares all week of Nallet cantering to our try line like he did twice in the 6N's.

What's important to consider also is that France haven't had their one good game of the tournament yet, plus the players have taken control back from Lievremont. They have never been more dangrous I don't think.

We don't be able to afford missed kicks at goal, missed kicks to touch nor too many wobbles in our line out. Improvement needed from the Ireland game but I think we might just be able to do it. Still v much a 50/50 game though.

by Cymroglan Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 12:52

RD The French may be due a good game but I have more faith in our consistency.
The French players may take the game into their own hands but Livermont could scupper that with his team selection and substitutions.

by Morgannwg Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 12:54

rugbydreamer wrote:in a strange way, I actually think these two teams are even more evenly matched than the Wales v Ireland game. When you think of the like for like palyers in the positions it's difficult to pick out where either side is better. Perhaps France have the edge in the 2nd row.

I'm going to be having nightmares all week of Nallet cantering to our try line like he did twice in the 6N's.

What's important to consider also is that France haven't had their one good game of the tournament yet, plus the players have taken control back from Lievremont. They have never been more dangrous I don't think.

We won't be able to afford missed kicks at goal, missed kicks to touch nor too many wobbles in our line out. Improvement needed from the Ireland game but I think we might just be able to do it. Still v much a 50/50 game though.

I agree with this, dreamer. We do however, have a new team. France have yet to face this team. Their 'good performance' albeit not that good may have come against England.

by Guest Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 12:57

Cymro - aye so do I, I am just hugely mindful of the threat France bring, tis why I feel the match is so 50/50

Morgannwg - I dunno, they were good but for only about 50 mins against England. If they can put in a full 80 mins against us, it's going to be a tough and fiercley fought battle. I've no doubt it'll make great viewing for a neutral!

by samuraidragon Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 13:03

They didn't need to put in 80 mins against England. The game was won by half-time.

by JDandfries Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 13:05

Worrying thing is, for Wales, is that France haven't had their big game - they were good for 25 minutes against England, and only needed to be average for the remaining 55 minutes.

Should be a good game either way, but i see france winning by 5+ points

by Morgannwg Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 13:07

Hopefully this will be similar to the game against them in 2008.. but better! I'm not sure what to make of France, they haven't even tried in this world cup but find themselves in the Semi Finals. For that reason I can't write them off. Going by form I definitely favour us. The boys will be up for this game more than the previous ones they have so much confidence in themselves and each other right now. Win this and we'll be in the final; hard to believe isn't it?

by Cymroglan Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 13:08

Average would have been good enough to beat Wales a few months ago but France will need to be on top of their game for 80 min if they want to make the final and obviously so will Wales need to be.

by whocares Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 13:10

provided there is no serious injuries (a few players do have some bruises after the england game and rougerie still has problems with his shoulder), we should see the same french team than last saturday with the possible replacement of parra by trinh-duc who had a very interesting 2nd half (adding some territory kicking to the french game).

Putting harinordoquy at 8 last weekend paid off quite well so who knows...

the key thing for ML is to find a way to re-motivate his troops this week (before england players were looking for a redemption but what now?).

Marc Lievremont seem to have lost another bet as on top of having a moustache he now cut his hair as well...

by bedfordwelsh Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 13:20

As I mentioned earlier we didn't see much of North this week, maybe that was planned maybe not but if we can get him running the angles off his wing as well as Roberts up the middle then it will hopefully keep the French guessing.

What was impressive was we were strong to the end unlike games gone by and didn't use the bench other than for injuries.

by Cymroglan Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 13:25

Bedford
North was being shadowed all through the game and when he moved off the wing that then created the space for Phillips to score his try
He did his job well but Saturday it was done to more effect without the ball in hand.

by Cardiff Taffy Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 13:41

We have many reasons to be nervous and I know all of Wales will be walking on egg shells this week but lets not forget our reasons to be confident:

1. Gatland is streets ahead of Livremont in terms of tactics
2. Our defence has been immense and if we keep them at bay for the first 30 mins it's very possible they will implode without the need for any further help from us.
3. Whilst playing the French in the past we've lost the the collisions and been beaten at the breakdown. This will by no means be easy but we have reason to be more confident with this element now.
4. Granted their backs can be devastating but so can ours!
5. I believe we want it more.

by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 13:49

samuraidragon wrote:I can't understand this complacency about France. They have a strong scrum, strong lineout, strong back-row, excellent goal-kicking and some game-breaking backs. They disposed of Ireland easily in the warm-ups, and the England game was over by half-time.

I couldn't agree more. They played beneath themselves in the group stages, woke up for the first half against England and that's been enough to see them to this point. They'll have to play better again to reach the final, but only a fool would think they're incapable of that.

by R!skysports Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 13:53

Well done Wales - great to get to the semi final

A word of caution though - do not take the French lightly. While I think you will win, it is not a certainty - these are the reasons why

1) You lost to SA in the first game - so not infalliable
2) You should have lost to Samoa, if the ref hadn't bizzarly decided not to send off your players for continued penatlies and he had allowed a perfectly good try
3) You beat Ireland, but have very little ball. Great defence is great to have, but can you rely on it all the time - you need to get more ball
4) The French seem to have taken over their own team, and they have quality players - if they carry on wanting it, it could be a very close game
5) The French pack look very scary, and could starve you of ball

As I said, not trying to be a wum, as I think you will win it, just worried that there is too much chest beating going on

Good luck

by RubyGuby Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 13:56

Risky, to balance your post up a bit you might have mentioned that France lost to Tonga. No one is taking anything for granted mate, nothing at all - I had money on France on the weekend because they have class from 1 to 15 and they remain one of the most dangerous sides in the world. thumbsup

by R!skysports Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 13:59

RubyGuby - you are right

They could be as terrible as the game they played against Tonga and Wales will put 100 on them.

Just suggesting a little caution on the celebrations - as not beaten a top Southern H team yet and not won anything yet.

Hope they can though, and a final place is within touching distance

by bedfordwelsh Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 14:00

Cymro,

Thats what I mean so maybe this week we will 'revert' to type so to speak and use him with ball in hand and keep the French guessing.

I for one will certainly not ne taking France for granted as said all along that they can and have turned it on at the drop of a hat.

Hopefully our fitness and growing self belief will see us through

by whocares Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 14:30

Riskysports wrote:
They could be as terrible as the game they played against Tonga and Wales will put 100 on them.

dont think Wales is 4-5 times better than Tonga...

by Morgannwg Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 14:54

Risky; now that your team is out just get behind your neighbour instead of being delusionally negative. I've read this site for a few weeks before joining and had seen no Welsh chest-beating what so ever. I did notice a few cocky English and Irish during that time, but where are they now?

by R!skysports Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 15:07

My team has been out for a while :-)

Good luck Braveheart

by Morgannwg Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 15:13

Scotland supporter? Why so critical of us back there? We had the toughest pool remember. Most of us are still in shock over the turn-around in 6 months, which would explain some comments.

by R!skysports Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 15:18

"Why so critical of us back there"

Not critical - just advising not to get too carried away.

by Morgannwg Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 15:25

We certainly aren't. Fans didn't at any point during the tournament despite being constantly told that. I speak for previous posters who had to put up with this. Although inspired by our performances I and others will not take the unpredictable French lightly. Now why don't you go pull on a red shirt? thumbsup

by R!skysports Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 15:41

Allez le Rouge

by newbie Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 16:02

Was very impressed with Wales and France at the weekend. Wales intensity against us was great and the game plan was executed excellently...

For France there are a couple of things to note. In the first half they hammered England and secondly when in the mood their defence is very mean (and as aggressive as Wales). They also have a much bigger more physical pack that can cause any team problems. It is quite possible they will try to play like England and strangle the life out of Wales. I dont see them playing with Gallic abandon (although they have the players to do that). Their midfield is as big as the Welsh one (maybe not as effective) and they dealt with Tuilagi and the large english runners quite comfortably on Sat.

So I think Wales have a great chance. They will need to show at least the same intensity as against Ireland especially in defence. If Wales are ahead at half time I think they will win.

by bedfordwelsh Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 16:41

What would be the bigger surprise:

Wales winning and getting to the final despite being written off by (Welsh included) lots before the WC.

Or France doing what we know they can do and truning it on again and getting to the final.

I guess WC form would mean we go in as slight faves but again the experience thing and France being France etc would see maybe them going in as faves.

Its a 50/50 game for me again which won't do my nerves any damn good.

by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 17:45

newbie wrote:France... their midfield is as big as the Welsh one (maybe not as effective) and they dealt with Tuilagi and the large english runners quite comfortably.

My recollection is that Tuilagi was about the only Engand player who broke through the French midfield - and he did so quite a few times. The problem was that he had no one in support.

by Messymesina Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 17:59

The only change to the team I would make is to put Shane back on the left wing and North on the right.

I was concerned about 1/2p at full back but he was excellent.

Reading the press this morning many pundits believe that their victory against England was their tournament defining performance. Paul Ackford has 5 French players in his team of the week and only 2 Welsh. Personally I feel England were so bad that this is hardly justifiable.

Wales or Ireland would have hammered that English Team.

I think Wales will be favourites, they will be better prepared and more highly motivated. They must beat France. They must take this opportunity to reach the world cup final. This may be a once in a lifetime chance.

by newbie Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 18:21

I actually cant recollect if tuilagi did break through the French defense. Maybe he did but england were so ineffective it doesnt register

by Messymesina Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 18:48

Luckless is correct, Tuilagi made several breaks down the middle, as did Tonga and NZ.

by mckay1402 Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 20:16

I think that had Wales or Ireland played France on Saturday then they'd have beaten them. The truth is that France didn't need to play well to beat England. They looked dynamic and intense but they were playing a team dragged out of the pub.

It will have given them confidence but I think as long as the Wales team don't take it for granted then they will more than likely win.

by Smirnoffpriest Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 20:49

I thought france playd ok nothing more,they didnt need anything else as england were so bad - its the same as the scotland game except france could score tries and scots couldn't

Tuilagi did make line breaks but as he was the only england player with any sort of threat, the french could easily deal with it, also england were so devoid of ideas they just kept throwing the ball to tuilagi and expecting him to do something.

by Taffineastbourne Mon 10 Oct 2011 - 21:28

We should be fine as I predicted France to win the WC and I am pants at predictions!!!!!!!!

by whocares Tue 11 Oct 2011 - 9:21

french team named , as expected no change from the last one :

Médard ; Clerc, Rougerie, Mermoz, Palisson ; Parra, Yachvili ; Bonnaire, Harinordoquy, Dusautoir (cap.) ; Nallet, Papé ; Mas, Servat, Poux.

bench: Szarzewski, Barcella, Pierre, Ouedraogo, Picamoles, Doussain*, Trinh Duc, Marty, Heymans.

* there is currently 9 players on the bench ; this is in case Yachvili is not fit which would mean Parra moves to 9 , TD to 10 and Doussain on the bench. Also Ouedraogo makes his way back to team as his mobility is seen as an advantage against wales.

by samuraidragon Tue 11 Oct 2011 - 9:50

From a Welsh angle , hard to know whether it's better or not for Yachvili to be fit! If he's unfit, France are going to miss his goal-kicking, but then Trinh-duc comes in at fly-half who is a decent kicker and one of the best 10s in the NH.

All in all, it's probably better forWales if Yachvili is fit and Parra starts at 10.

by **rodders** Tue 11 Oct 2011 - 10:12

RubyGuby wrote:The game remains another 50/50 battle. I felt we had another gear on Saturday but we need to stifle this French team and not let them get a good start. If we can nullify them, which we are pretty good at on the evidence so far we have a good chance of winning. Lets not start playing chuck ball with the french though, please!

Yup keep it simple and stick to zee plan. No need to throw the ball around When Roberts and North can smash it down the 10 channel and get you on the front foot.

FFS start well because the first score will be key, like it was against Ireland. Score 1st and you force the French to chase the game but if they build a lead then it will force Wales to take more chances and let the French use that counterrattacking game they love.

I think Wales will be too organised, too desciplined and too fit (!) for France and if they can maintain the linespeed, enthusiasm (Lydiate 24 tackles Shocked

FFS!) and composure in defence they did against Ireland and resist the urge to make unnecessary offloads and take risks then I think they should close this one out comfortably.

Good luck guinness

by Cymroglan Tue 11 Oct 2011 - 10:17

I wish rodders was Welsh he inspires me Very Happy

by Nos na Gaoithe Tue 11 Oct 2011 - 10:24

Like many other Irish on here... most of my goodwill lies with Wales for this one. But I do have a few worries:

Everything went to plan for Wales against Ireland and they forced us to play the game they wanted us to. But even with everything going right for Wales, Ireland dominated possession and territory for the first 50mins and were only held in check because the Welsh had done their homework and oblitorated our big ball-carriers around the ruck. Ireland had no answer once this happened and were more or less impotent along the backline for the most part.

But France will surely thrive on that kind of possession. And they don't have one particular area that can be shut out. Clerc et al, will be screaming for the ball and France have big enough forwards and ball carriers to keep Wales preoccupied in that area also.

So my honest question is what will Gatland et al do this time to deal with the French threat? What are the chances of Wales getting parity or (better still) dominating possession over the french pack?

by Cymroglan Tue 11 Oct 2011 - 10:30

Ireland and Wales would have beaten France if we go by last weekends performance.
I'm happy with the Welsh commitment and our game plan the French need to step up if they have any desire to make the final.

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