New contract for John Hayes

From the Irish Times this morning:

MUNSTER ARE poised to offer John Hayes a new contract. The 105-times capped tighthead prop was passed over for Ireland’s World Cup squad, but kept under contract until the tournament concluded in case he was required as an injury replacement.

Hayes’ IRFU deal ends on Sunday but circumstances in Munster mean, despite turning 38 next month, his retirement has been postponed. Darragh Hurley is struggling with an Achilles tendon problem while Kiwi Peter Borlase has knee and back injuries.

Quite a turn around. Are Munster ruing the departure of Mushy? Hayes is a pure ledge, no doubting that, and I'm sure he's more than happy to keep playing as long as they keep paying, but this seems like a miscalculation on Munsters part. You can never tell when injuries will occur, but you can plan for them. Have Munster misjudged?

Possibly yes, Botha and Borlase are cited and injured respectively. We need Hayes.

greybeard wrote:From the Irish Times this morning:

MUNSTER ARE poised to offer John Hayes a new contract. The 105-times capped tighthead prop was passed over for Ireland’s World Cup squad, but kept under contract until the tournament concluded in case he was required as an injury replacement.

Hayes’ IRFU deal ends on Sunday but circumstances in Munster mean, despite turning 38 next month, his retirement has been postponed. Darragh Hurley is struggling with an Achilles tendon problem while Kiwi Peter Borlase has knee and back injuries.

Quite a turn around. Are Munster ruing the departure of Mushy? Hayes is a pure ledge, no doubting that, and I'm sure he's more than happy to keep playing as long as they keep paying, but this seems like a miscalculation on Munsters part. You can never tell when injuries will occur, but you can plan for them. Have Munster misjudged?

Greybeard, it was the IRFU that messed up Mushy, not Munster. It was they who reduced their contract offer in both value and length.

Munster are unfortunate at the minute to have have 2 injuries and a citing at the Tighthead position. 3 players out of action in such a pivotal position would impact any club. For Leinster you would be saying something like Ross-Hagan-McGrath all gone for one reason or another. We brought in Shawe last year if I remember due to injuries. Munster are fortunate Hayes is local and can be asked to cover at short notice.
I don't think IRFU messed up either. Mushy hasn't lived up to his potential/billing other than 10-15 mins of absolute destruction every 2-3 games. No where near consistent enough. His current contract was planning for him to be Irish first choice tighthead when it was signed it. Since then he has fallen behind Ross and Court in the pecking order and is a couple of years older.
If Hayes is up for some more games, then it is great for him. He owes Munster and Ireland nothing for all his service down the years.

I disagree with you completely bandwagon - Mushy would have been fantastic for Munster coming off the bench for Botha at 60 mins. All our props are injury prone it seems, and Borlase just has not worked out. I think Mushy will be a big loss to us. Bet he will still be involved in the national side though.

By the way, Mushy is a year younger than Ross and 2 days younger than Court.

Sin é wrote:I disagree with you completely bandwagon - Mushy would have been fantastic for Munster coming off the bench for Botha at 60 mins. All our props are injury prone it seems, and Borlase just has not worked out. I think Mushy will be a big loss to us. Bet he will still be involved in the national side though.

By the way, Mushy is a year younger than Ross and 2 days younger than Court.

Cheers Sin é, I disagree with you too. Buckley was looking for the type of money typical for an international starter playing the majority of minutes. So giving him that level of money and wrapping up so much of Munsters & Irelands player budget in my view isn't good value if you are taking 20mins off the bench.

On Buckley versus Court and Ross. Years come in to it but so too does Ross' position as the number 1 option at tighthead now and his consistency is what he provides to a team. Court too has good consistency that puts him as the neck'n'neck back up option with Buckley. Previous money going to Buckley was based on keeping the guy as the only real backup to the Bull. Both Munster and Ireland had been set up for his smooth progression but varying performances have put him behind the others, and now also Hagan who is coming through. I will admit, when he is focused, he can DESTROY opposition at the breakdown and around the field. But scrummaging has been too hit and miss and he has had plenty of years now to try and work on it. I know they are close together in years, but in terms of the level of performance Ross and Court are consistently ahead, so the player budget has to secure them more than holding onto someone like Buckley for a 20 minute cameo every now and then.

And I'm not trying to say Ulster/Leinster have better props, Leinster did have Clint Newland after all!

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

Sin é wrote:I disagree with you completely bandwagon - Mushy would have been fantastic for Munster coming off the bench for Botha at 60 mins. All our props are injury prone it seems, and Borlase just has not worked out. I think Mushy will be a big loss to us. Bet he will still be involved in the national side though.

By the way, Mushy is a year younger than Ross and 2 days younger than Court.

Cheers Sin é, I disagree with you too. Buckley was looking for the type of money typical for an international starter playing the majority of minutes. So giving him that level of money and wrapping up so much of Munsters & Irelands player budget in my view isn't good value if you are taking 20mins off the bench.

On Buckley versus Court and Ross. Years come in to it but so too does Ross' position as the number 1 option at tighthead now and his consistency is what he provides to a team. Court too has good consistency that puts him as the neck'n'neck back up option with Buckley. Previous money going to Buckley was based on keeping the guy as the only real backup to the Bull. Both Munster and Ireland had been set up for his smooth progression but varying performances have put him behind the others, and now also Hagan who is coming through. I will admit, when he is focused, he can DESTROY opposition at the breakdown and around the field. But scrummaging has been too hit and miss and he has had plenty of years now to try and work on it. I know they are close together in years, but in terms of the level of performance Ross and Court are consistently ahead, so the player budget has to secure them more than holding onto someone like Buckley for a 20 minute cameo every now and then.

And I'm not trying to say Ulster/Leinster have better props, Leinster did have Clint Newland after all!

Bandwagon, the IRFU made Buckley an offer, then they reduced it. I think the big bone of contention for him was that he was only offered a 1 year contract and Sale were offering a 3 year one. (He has two young kids and a wife with serious health issues, so the English Health service was a major plus).

Its gas that Ross only came good for Leinster and Ireland when he was 30! It will be interesting to see how Buckley does for Sale.

It may have bee a good move for Ireland (after all, he is still available to them), but at this point in time, I doubt if there are many in Munster who don't wish he was still here.

Good points, I'm not privé to personal background.

With regard to Ross, I remember Dayglo singing his praises many years ago but as he was in the UK didn't really get considered. Even on his return to Leinster he had to basically start from scratch and establish himself at Leinster before getting a chance with Ireland. Probably not the best way to bring a player through and you could say we lost some of his best years in a green jersey as a result. But that is a separate thread/discussion.

Could Munster have offered Buckley a contract if the one the IRFU was offering wasn't good enough.
I assume they felt they had enough cover but have hit a run of bad luck with their TH props.

Buckley leaving was only partly to do with losing out on an Irfu contract, there was also an argument with a member of the Munster management which meant that moving to Sale was the best move for Buckley. The fact that his wife is from manchester was also a factor in him choosing to go there.

Buckley was no loss to Munster it pains me to say. For all his effort he just cant scrummage and was so frustrating to watch. It was almost like an experiment that we stuch with for years but eventually something had to give.

Hayes is the perfect man to call in. He is a better scrummager than Buckley and will slot seamlessly into the team. Botha is obviously first choice but that is where Buckley needs to be so the town isn't big enough for the both of them.

It's unfortunate that Munster have so many out and test depth that is really beyond planning, but the same thing happened Ulster last year at TH with two props having long spells out, Botha at times missing and then Court being called up.