Diving in football

Fulham suffered a defeat in Europe tonight, but werent helped by an absolutely appalling piece of playacting by an opposition player causing a fulham player to be red carded.

Do you think the time has come now to punish these divers severly.

What punishments would you give. Huge bans...10 games plus or massive fines...like hundreds of thousands or millions in some cases.

These incidents should be dealt with retrospectively definitely. Perhaps there needs to be some kind of panel put in place to deal with these cheats because they are ruining football matches.

Bans and fines work with me IF there is absolutely NO DOUBT that the player in question has cheated. Players like the one tonight in the Fulham game are a blotch on the sport.

I also think it wouldn't hurt if managers reminded their players that it's a mans game and there will be times during a 90 minute match where they may have to face a tackle!

How long would Jack Charlton and the like last on a football pitch in today's game?!!

We (Bristol City) were on the wrong end of a piece of diving on Tuesday against Crystal Palace, 81st minute one of their players dives where in the replay you can see Nyatanga pull his leg away then their player goes down, 0-0 at the time Palace won 1-0 in the end. Considering we're bottom of the table every point is crucial. At the end of the season a point can save you or send you down.

The problem I can see is you're going to get genuine fouls that get done for diving, which would be unfair. Also as Di Canio pointed out in his own crazy way, the reason people have to overact when they are fouled these days are because referees are looking for that and without the theatrics they rarely give a foul.

I am going to become unpopular here, but diving has been happening regularly for in the game for 30 years or so now, English, Spanish, Italian, welsh, Japanese, does not matter everyone does it and will continue to.

There are two reason for the more highlighted incidents in diving, first is because the Rules from above have effectivly stamped so many ways to tackle it making it easier to go down. And secondly the money involved in football it is to expensive not to win.

Fifa, Uefa and The premier league (looking at english league alone) have brought this to become a more common occurance) and it will be here to stay

But here is the most important bit as much as i hate it when someone wins a free kick for going down soft against rangers, i know in 3 mins Kirk Boadfoot will win one back for doing the same thing and all i will say is was a stonewall freekick, why, because it is my team so i dont care. The football fan will pick a choose when it is a foul and when it is a dive to suit there own needs.

There is a difference in diving to gain a free kick/penalty and playacting to get a fellow professional sent off.

I hate both but that player last night was a disgrace - it was right up there with Rivaldo at the world cup. There is no place in the game for this.

If they did that then Luis Suarez would be perminantly banned, he is without doubt one of teh worst divers I have seen for a while

hodge wrote:We (Bristol City) were on the wrong end of a piece of diving on Tuesday against Crystal Palace, 81st minute one of their players dives where in the replay you can see Nyatanga pull his leg away then their player goes down, 0-0 at the time Palace won 1-0 in the end. Considering we're bottom of the table every point is crucial. At the end of the season a point can save you or send you down.

You clown...you forget we SCORED a legitamate goal down at Ashton Gate when Freddie Sears banged in a goal which bounced back out when we were at the bottom and your ENTIRE team and manager cheated by denying it went it....

I believe Karma is a biatch and Bristol got bitten on the ass!

EAAAAGLES!

I agree that diving goes on alot...and many cases are very unclear.

Im talking about the ones that are so blatant, like the rivaldo one, like the one last night etc. These players should be made examples of...and it might make players think twice about even minor diving.....
Its pathetic to watch.

I honestly think i would have ended up getting banned for stamping on him on the floor if it had been me...i would have been raging.

Its gotten so bad, they talk about players doing it because it stops them getting injured when a tackle comes in but thats a load of

You had the case of Neymar against Scotland diving all over the place and accusing the Scots of being rascist because they booed him where as it was because he was a cheat

It is without doubt my biggest bug bear in football, without doubt.

I hate cheats, and I just wish the authorities would do something about it.

I also wish the commentators would stop condoning it too; too often you will here, there was contact etc, and you never (well rarely) hear anyone say it was a dive, he cheated.

I also dislike the phrase, 'he was looking for a penalty', so what a players is allowed to entice players in to tackle him, and if they don't get the ball, its a foul.

I just want to see an end to exagertaion and diving, we all do, and teh sooner the likes of Suarez etc are punished for it, the better!

JDandfries wrote:If they did that then Luis Suarez would be perminantly banned, he is without doubt one of teh worst divers I have seen for a while

and ronaldo!!!!!!!

The_Essence_of_Excellence wrote:

hodge wrote:We (Bristol City) were on the wrong end of a piece of diving on Tuesday against Crystal Palace, 81st minute one of their players dives where in the replay you can see Nyatanga pull his leg away then their player goes down, 0-0 at the time Palace won 1-0 in the end. Considering we're bottom of the table every point is crucial. At the end of the season a point can save you or send you down.

You clown...you forget we SCORED a legitamate goal down at Ashton Gate when Freddie Sears banged in a goal which bounced back out when we were at the bottom and your ENTIRE team and manager cheated by denying it went it....

I believe Karma is a biatch and Bristol got bitten on the ass!

EAAAAGLES!

not getting drawn into a slagging match on this as it happend alot at the time, if you want to remember correctly the referee disallowed the goal for a foul, it was in his report, hence why the goal was disallowed, enough said.

Almost as worse as the diving is the one-eyed attitude of some fans. Their own players are tripped but the opposition's players are divers.
Every team has divers and nearly every team has a serial diver. Suarez, only from what I've heard, appears to be the latest in a long line which includes Ginola, Ronaldo, Drogba, Gerrard (yes Stevie G is as guilty as some), Robben (probably the worst I've seen).
I'd accept some innocent guys being sent off for going down under genuine fouls if it helped keep people on their feet and stamp out diving.

JDandfries wrote:If they did that then Luis Suarez would be perminantly banned, he is without doubt one of teh worst divers I have seen for a while

That must be your anti Liverpool view yet again JD. Just out of interest what is your definition of a dive?

From what I have seen the majority (if not all) of times Suarez has gone done there has been contact. I agree he does go down too easily sometimes and some free kicks he is awarded are soft but he isn't the only one. If there is contact no matter how minimal and a player decides to go down can that really be classed as a dive? I thought it is only a dive when there is absolutely no contact whatsoever.

JDandfries wrote:If they did that then Luis Suarez would be perminantly banned, he is without doubt one of teh worst divers I have seen for a while

what?

worse than drogba, rooney, diouf, gerrard?

jd

grow up

Ravanelli when he played for Boro is the worst diver I've ever seen. Cheating scum.

braveheart101 wrote:

JDandfries wrote:If they did that then Luis Suarez would be perminantly banned, he is without doubt one of teh worst divers I have seen for a while

That must be your anti Liverpool view yet again JD. Just out of interest what is your definition of a dive?

From what I have seen the majority (if not all) of times Suarez has gone done there has been contact. I agree he does go down too easily sometimes and some free kicks he is awarded are soft but he isn't the only one. If there is contact no matter how minimal and a player decides to go down can that really be classed as a dive? I thought it is only a dive when there is absolutely no contact whatsoever.

Against Everton the other week, it was a bit of a joke... Got Jack Rodwell sent off with his ridiculous acting, Suarez is most certainly one of the biggest divers in the Premier League. The guy should be in Uruguays Olympic Diving in 2012 team because he'd win the gold without trying.

I don't see how anyone could argue that Suarez is a cheating little scrote so far this season. He's spent longer rolling around on the floor than on his feet. Without Dalglish condeming it can only see him getting worse.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

braveheart101 wrote:

JDandfries wrote:If they did that then Luis Suarez would be perminantly banned, he is without doubt one of teh worst divers I have seen for a while

That must be your anti Liverpool view yet again JD. Just out of interest what is your definition of a dive?

From what I have seen the majority (if not all) of times Suarez has gone done there has been contact. I agree he does go down too easily sometimes and some free kicks he is awarded are soft but he isn't the only one. If there is contact no matter how minimal and a player decides to go down can that really be classed as a dive? I thought it is only a dive when there is absolutely no contact whatsoever.

Against Everton the other week, it was a bit of a joke... Got Jack Rodwell sent off with his ridiculous acting, Suarez is most certainly one of the biggest divers in the Premier League. The guy should be in Uruguays Olympic Diving in 2012 team because he'd win the gold without trying.

Ridiculous acting?

he was lucky that he didn't go off after the challenge, talk about the other players who feign injury before condemning suarez

trottb wrote:I don't see how anyone could argue that Suarez is a cheating little scrote so far this season. He's spent longer rolling around on the floor this season. Without Dalglish condeming it can only see him getting worse.

are you asleep mate?

are you living in a dream world?

He's spent longer rolling around on the floor this season? i don't think so, i think defenders are hacking him down to stop him

Not really, he's been throwing himself all over the place lately.

"Just out of interest what is your definition of a dive?"

Im getting into a grey area here, but i believe a player goes down rolling around after minimal contact is a dive. Some cases are difficult to judge, but others are so blatant.

Football is supposed to be a contact sport...shoulder to shoulder charges etc

I also do think Suarez dives...but he is certainly not the only one....and i think whilst foreigners have brought so much to the premiership with regards to professionalism (strict diets, no smoking etc) i think this is one negative they have brought.

In complete agreement with you there Geordie. When you are rolling around on the floor, like you've been shot, whenever anyone brushes you that is a dive.

Not just the foreign players for me though, if anything I find the british players are becoming worse on a whole.

GeordieFalcon wrote:"Just out of interest what is your definition of a dive?"

Im getting into a grey area here, but i believe a player goes down rolling around after minimal contact is a dive. Some cases are difficult to judge, but others are so blatant.

Football is supposed to be a contact sport...shoulder to shoulder charges etc

I also do think Suarez dives...but he is certainly not the only one....and i think whilst foreigners have brought so much to the premiership with regards to professionalism (strict diets, no smoking etc) i think this is one negative they have brought.

I have to disagree with you on that one, if there is contact no matter how minimal it is up to the referee to determine if it is a foul or a fair challenge. Yes Suarez is the latest in a long line of players who make the most of challenges but to say that he is a diver after there has been contact is totally unjust. According to FIFA rules a dive is classed as simulation and merits a yellow card. Definition of simulation - pretend to be (fouled). If there is contact and the referee determines that it is a unfair challenge how is any player pretending they have been fouled?

braveheart101 wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:"Just out of interest what is your definition of a dive?"

Im getting into a grey area here, but i believe a player goes down rolling around after minimal contact is a dive. Some cases are difficult to judge, but others are so blatant.

Football is supposed to be a contact sport...shoulder to shoulder charges etc

I also do think Suarez dives...but he is certainly not the only one....and i think whilst foreigners have brought so much to the premiership with regards to professionalism (strict diets, no smoking etc) i think this is one negative they have brought.

I have to disagree with you on that one, if there is contact no matter how minimal it is up to the referee to determine if it is a foul or a fair challenge. Yes Suarez is the latest in a long line of players who make the most of challenges but to say that he is a diver after there has been contact is totally unjust. According to FIFA rules a dive is classed as simulation and merits a yellow card. Definition of simulation - pretend to be (fouled). If there is contact and the referee determines that it is a unfair challenge how is any player pretending they have been fouled?

By rolling around like they've been shot, trying to con the referee...even if it was a fair challenge - thats how.

Lots of players do it, in an attempt to win penalties, free kicks or even get an opposition player sent off. You're also forgetting referees and assistants are often in the wrong place or have their view obscured. These things often happen in a split second and as we all know its quite easy for a wrong decision to be made...for example that Everton player who recently had his red card rescinded after the match.

Players who deliberately make the officials' job harder by trying to con them disgust me and the more who are weeded out and heavily fined or banned, the better. Cheating and unsporting behaviour should have no place in the sport and if it were up to me, ridiculously heavy penalties would be imposed on anyone found guilty of such behaviour.

I'm not condoning Suarez, Drogba or any other player who spends 5 minutes rolling about after being fouled but that doesn't make them divers. There is a big difference between what Suarez does and for example Simeone and Rivaldo in the World Cup, Dida against Celtic in the Champions League even Barton against Arsenal at the start of the season

braveheart101 wrote:I'm not condoning Suarez, Drogba or any other player who spends 5 minutes rolling about after being fouled but that doesn't make them divers. There is a big difference between what Suarez does and for example Simeone and Rivaldo in the World Cup, Dida against Celtic in the Champions League even Barton against Arsenal at the start of the season

Contradicting yourself here mate, with the Rivaldo incident there was contact, it hit him, but he rolled around and made the biggest deal out of it. Which from your other posts seem to be what you're saying is ok. Barton against Arsenal, he went down and made a huge song and dance about it and there was barely anything in it, however there was contact and he went down.

This is not different to what we are saying about Suarez, there is contact, but he goes down extremely easily and then acts in a way that gets the other player into more trouble than what the other player would usually be getting into, this is the exact same for these incidents that you deem unjust.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

braveheart101 wrote:I'm not condoning Suarez, Drogba or any other player who spends 5 minutes rolling about after being fouled but that doesn't make them divers. There is a big difference between what Suarez does and for example Simeone and Rivaldo in the World Cup, Dida against Celtic in the Champions League even Barton against Arsenal at the start of the season

Contradicting yourself here mate, with the Rivaldo incident there was contact, it hit him, but he rolled around and made the biggest deal out of it. Which from your other posts seem to be what you're saying is ok. Barton against Arsenal, he went down and made a huge song and dance about it and there was barely anything in it, however there was contact and he went down.

This is not different to what we are saying about Suarez, there is contact, but he goes down extremely easily and then acts in a way that gets the other player into more trouble than what the other player would usually be getting into, this is the exact same for these incidents that you deem unjust.

Spot on

Ok Braveheart....

Liverpool v Man U

Steve Gerrard is going in for a tackle on Nani.

They touch shoulders with less force than the slightest breeze...but nani goes down like he has been shot....rolling around and looking like he's in agony.

Steve Gerrard then gets sent off.....you lose the game

And your saying this is acceptible behaviour......

AlexHuckerby wrote:

braveheart101 wrote:I'm not condoning Suarez, Drogba or any other player who spends 5 minutes rolling about after being fouled but that doesn't make them divers. There is a big difference between what Suarez does and for example Simeone and Rivaldo in the World Cup, Dida against Celtic in the Champions League even Barton against Arsenal at the start of the season

Contradicting yourself here mate, with the Rivaldo incident there was contact, it hit him, but he rolled around and made the biggest deal out of it. Which from your other posts seem to be what you're saying is ok. Barton against Arsenal, he went down and made a huge song and dance about it and there was barely anything in it, however there was contact and he went down.

This is not different to what we are saying about Suarez, there is contact, but he goes down extremely easily and then acts in a way that gets the other player into more trouble than what the other player would usually be getting into, this is the exact same for these incidents that you deem unjust.

Yes there was contact with all the examples I made but none went down as a result of a tackle. Rivaldo was hit in the thigh by the ball and went down clutching his face, Dida was tapped on the shoulder by a fan started running after him then collapsed in a heap before being stretchered off, Simeone was tapped on the back of the leg by Beckham and rolled about for 2 minutes and Barton was tapped on the face and went down as if he had been punched by Tyson and within days admitted he did it to get Gervinho sent off. All of those are totally different to anything Suarez has done.

braveheart101 wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:

braveheart101 wrote:I'm not condoning Suarez, Drogba or any other player who spends 5 minutes rolling about after being fouled but that doesn't make them divers. There is a big difference between what Suarez does and for example Simeone and Rivaldo in the World Cup, Dida against Celtic in the Champions League even Barton against Arsenal at the start of the season

Contradicting yourself here mate, with the Rivaldo incident there was contact, it hit him, but he rolled around and made the biggest deal out of it. Which from your other posts seem to be what you're saying is ok. Barton against Arsenal, he went down and made a huge song and dance about it and there was barely anything in it, however there was contact and he went down.

This is not different to what we are saying about Suarez, there is contact, but he goes down extremely easily and then acts in a way that gets the other player into more trouble than what the other player would usually be getting into, this is the exact same for these incidents that you deem unjust.

Yes there was contact with all the examples I made but none went down as a result of a tackle. Rivaldo was hit in the thigh by the ball and went down clutching his face, Dida was tapped on the shoulder by a fan started running after him then collapsed in a heap before being stretchered off, Simeone was tapped on the back of the leg by Beckham and rolled about for 2 minutes and Barton was tapped on the face and went down as if he had been punched by Tyson and within days admitted he did it to get Gervinho sent off. All of those are totally different to anything Suarez has done.

agreed spot on braveheart

The only difference between the Barton and Suarez is that Suarez hasn't managed to get anybody sent off yet.

trottb wrote:The only difference between the Barton and Suarez is that Suarez hasn't managed to get anybody sent off yet.

That's the ONLY difference?

ReallyReal wrote:

trottb wrote:The only difference between the Barton and Suarez is that Suarez hasn't managed to get anybody sent off yet.

That's the ONLY difference?

In relation to the diving incident yes.

trottb wrote:

ReallyReal wrote:

trottb wrote:The only difference between the Barton and Suarez is that Suarez hasn't managed to get anybody sent off yet.

That's the ONLY difference?

In relation to the diving incident yes.

The fact that Barton himself should have been sent off surely is another difference, Suarez may well be a cheating ****, but as far as I can remember he's not deserved to sed a red card yet this season.

Yes he did, but we're talking in relation to the diving/simulation. The argument that if there is contact, then according to 2 posters above, it is OK to do roll around as much as you like.

You could argue that last week against Norwich he could quite easily have been shown two yellows for simulation and dissent.

trottb wrote:Yes he did, but we're talking in relation to the diving/simulation. The argument that if there is contact, then according to 2 posters above, it is OK to do roll around as much as you like.

You could argue that last week against Norwich he could quite easily have been shown to yellows for simulation and dissent.

The point i am making is that diving/simulation is 'pretending to be fouled'. The fact that after Suarez has been fouled he rolls about does not change the fact that it was an unfair/illegal challenge.

So are you not pretending if you roll around on the floor after jumping out of the way of a challenge that hasn't touched you?

Barton was touched in the face therefore he has not simulated only exaggerated which you deem acceptable.

trottb wrote:So are you not pretending if you roll around on the floor after jumping out of the way of a challenge that hasn't touched you?

Barton was touched in the face therefore he has not simulated only exaggerated which you deem acceptable.

How often has Suarez jumped out of the way and not been touched then? If that was the case do you really think every referee in charge of Liverpool games is so blind not to see that he hasn't been touched? What happens after he has been fouled I don't agree with but he isn't the first and most definately won't be the last to roll about.
As for Barton that wasn't as the result of a tackle was it. Since when has being touched on the side of the face made anyone fall over?

braveheart101 wrote:

trottb wrote:So are you not pretending if you roll around on the floor after jumping out of the way of a challenge that hasn't touched you?

Barton was touched in the face therefore he has not simulated only exaggerated which you deem acceptable.

How often has Suarez jumped out of the way and not been touched then? If that was the case do you really think every referee in charge of Liverpool games is so blind not to see that he hasn't been touched? What happens after he has been fouled I don't agree with but he isn't the first and most definately won't be the last to roll about.
As for Barton that wasn't as the result of a tackle was it. Since when has being touched on the side of the face made anyone fall over?

As last week proved, against Norwich, refs are starting to get wise to his little act, as they did with both Ronaldo and Drogba, Pretty soon you'll start to see genuine fouls not given. He was renowned for it in both Uruguay and Holland so nobody should be surprised to see him doing it over here. Liverpool knew they were getting a cheat he's delivered to the highest standard.

What does it matter if it's the result of a tackle or not? He felt contact on his face and went down, perfectly acceptable in your line of reasoning. When you say "Since when has being touched on the side of the face made anyone fall over" a lot of that could also be deemed the same as some of the contact made in challenges not enough to put a grown man on his rear end it works both ways.

Because you can't accuse someone who has been fouled of diving. Can you give any examples of Suarez jumping out of the way of a challenge then rolling around?

The fact that when a player is running and another player makes contact with them that causes them to lose their balance is that not deemed as a foul.

Rodwelll he jumped out of the way more than anything then proceeded to roll around clutching his ankle like he'd been hacked with a machete

That is the only one that I agree wasn't a foul and definitely didn't merit a red card but one example hardly makes Suarez the worst diver in the Premier League

braveheart101 wrote: hardly makes Suarez the worst diver in the Premier League

Would agree with that completely. If he carries on the way he's going he will be by the end of the season. As you've said it's down to the refs to stop it. Problem is how do you do this without brandishing cards every 5 minutes. Do you think that if the refs/league were quicker/more willing to overturn yellows it would help? That way if the refs do make a mistake by booking someone for diving there is no problem.

trottb wrote:

braveheart101 wrote: hardly makes Suarez the worst diver in the Premier League

Would agree with that completely. If he carries on the way he's going he will be by the end of the season. As you've said it's down to the refs to stop it. Problem is how do you do this without brandishing cards every 5 minutes. Do you think that if the refs/league were quicker/more willing to overturn yellows it would help? That way if the refs do make a mistake by booking someone for diving there is no problem.

If referees start booking players for rolling around after being tackled/fouled then I think most games are going to see 3 or more red cards. I don't think it helps that the rules have been changed and now any tackle from behind is deemed to be a foul even if they get the ball first. Maybe if tv evidence was introduced it would make players stop rolling about so much but FIFA won't ever allow it so I think we just have to accept it.
As for overturning yellow cards that would be a good idea, I've never understood why a red card can be rescinded if it's obvious that the ref has made a mistake but yellow cards can't.

It's to stop every decision being disputed, it would be a huge waste of time and completely undermine referees.

For me the punishment for the dive should be proporional to what the defender would be punshed for. For example if a player is rolling around holding his face he should be shown red, because that is what he is trying to get the defender. Also +1 yellow card if its in the box. So a tackle that is worth a yellow in the box, if simulated, gets you a red.
You may say this is harsh but to me it's fair. If your simulating for a punishment you recieve that punishment! Plus the yellow in the box because your looking for a penalty (almost certain goal).

I think that it should be looked at after games, if the ref does not see it. With the amount of cameras around stadiums you can clearly make out if there is contact or not

Football really isn't the game it once was. Watching games from the 90s' half the challenges that happen back then would almost certainly be called back for a foul in our day 'nd age.