How To Solve A Problem Like Hook ?

That’s the dilemma that the Welsh management have to sort out. James Hook has had a poor tournament. He has proved that he hasn’t yet got the skills and attributes needed to control a game from fly half. The problem as I see it is Hook is not our best 10, he’s not our best centre, and he’s not our best full back.

So in what position does his future lie for Wales? Priestland is now Wales’ premier 10 and only a fool would disagree otherwise. Hook’s poor performances there have meant he cannot be considered 1st choice there. Also you have Tovey, Bigger, and Shingler knocking on the door which will make it even harder for James to attain his favourite position.

What about the centre? Hook in the centre is the people’s choice but that’s not straight forward anymore. It seems Foxy has slowly but surely developed a good understanding with Roberts now and with the emergence of the talented youngster Scott Williams means there’s not much chance that Hook can break in there now.

The 15 shirt must belong to Leigh Halfpenny who has been a revelation at full back. Lee Byrne showed patches of form when he played at 15. When Hook does play at 15 it seems he’s hardly in the game as he doesn’t have the same impact from 15 that Halfpenny has.

When I think about this I’m struggling to find a place for Hook in the team. Can he even be considered a starting place in the first 15 anymore? We all know that Hook is a talented player, but at the moment he seems to be a jack of all trades but a master of none. The December test against the Wallabies and in particular next years Six Nations will be interesting to see where Hook fits in. Maybe Hook is destined to become a decent squad player like Ryan Jones and Jonathan Thomas. Good players but who have never really nailed down one position. I hope that Hook regains form and confidence out in France and that Wales find ONE position for him to nail down.

Welcome to the bench, supersub

london, hook is not the peoples choice at centre, no, some of the welsh public have been shouting for hook at 10, end of story.

they have been carried along by a totally irrational press campaign in wales, its built up a hook fever where he must be the ''jinky,dinky'' 10

well, jinky ,dinky aint the name of the game, like it or not WE WANT AND NEED STRUCTURE.

HOOK PLAYS LIKE A 7'S PLAYER, THINKS LIKE A 7'S PLAYER and emperors clothes has finally, thank the lord , been shown for what he is.

the need to ''find a position for hook'' has stalled the development of the team----until now, aurevoir monsieur hook, bon chance!!

I think you have nailed it Gavstar, he is a 7s player and off the bench last 30 minute impact player...lets hope his impact can be more positive and might include the occassional kicking of points

I really dislike the notion of 'we have to get him on the pitch somehow/somewhere'. No we don't! He hasn't been in form for ages so he doesn't deserve to be in the squad. Just because he might do something ingenious doesn't make up for the fact that he will probably do something stupid.

How to solve a problem like Hook? Drop him until he's playing awesomely well week in week out, and then select him, which is how every player should be selected, unless injuries mean you have to fill a gap. At the moment there are better 10s, better centres and better full backs so he's not needed. Unlucky for him, but that's pro sport.

Hook really is an odd player isnt he. He can be sublime and silky in his skills but he is too unpredictable. He often makes runs and gets himself isolated. I cant remember a running 10 that is turned over as much as he is.

I agree with Griff. Treat Hook like any other off form player and drop him. Don't consider him again until he is playing well enough to take someone's shirt.

hook is the new sweeney. it is another example of wales' real depth.

Hook is in the same boat as Austin Healy was for England. Austin played on the wing and 9 and at 10 yet struggled to hold down a starting England spot. Austin was a fantastic all round rugby player but never made any position hios own.

He has hardly played any rugby in the last three months.. A half game here or there while Priestland has played hook out of the team. Plus his injuries...

As you said, a lot like Sweeney, a better Flyhalf than Parks at the blues by a country mile, but without game time looks iffy at best...

Players need games to be match ready...! If they aren't getting regular rugby they dont hit form.

Just watched the Aus v Wal game this morning ...... whilst yesterday I read the comments on the game in general and then specifically on the players, the posts were generally on Hooks performance.

Whats amazing is that even the most staunchest Hook poster Samuraidragon concentrated on the threads topic and agreed that Hook didnt play well yet for the second game running and yet there were still posters (albeit now whittled down to 2 or 3) who immediately commented and quite off topic on how poor Stephen Jones played and how lacking in direction and creativity, and yet as usual these posters didnt qualify their comments with actual examples in the match............. what a suprise!!. And what this he hasn't had game-time!!. he played 3 games in the 6Ns, played quite a few games fir the Os towards the end of the season, and played 1 1/2 games in the WC warm ups ........ ahem thats more than any other player, and he has got what more than 50-60 caps for goodness sake, RP has 10 mins to prepare against England and has a fantastic game and has been a model of consistency, "if he is good enough he is ready enough"

So I thought "OK I will really look at the match even more objectively than is usual" to see how poorly Hook and Jones played

Hook didnt play as poorly as he did against the French (in the WC I mean, not the disaster in the 6Ns), and it wasn't his kicking that was the major flaw,............ I just didn't see one instance where he created something for the talented backs, I didn't see one instance where he linked the forward surge to the back play, and he got turned himself, his lack of awareness and positioning meant other players had to react and got turned over. His defensive and offensive line was very rarely straight and his passing game e.g. just two instances the "unaware" short pass to Jon Davies under the posts was quite incredible and the forward pass to Shane when he should have passed 3 yards before just highlights what I have stated for the last 2-3 seasons. Even with the Australian try you can see Roberts going to cover Hooks 10 channel leaving a gap for the short straight whip pass for Barnes to punch through, it was quite evident that Hook was 3-4 feet too close to the scrum side, just total lack of awareness.

Now to "balance" the ranting of the very few who banged on about Jones lack of creativity and direction when he came on........... well I agreed with the panel of experts yesterday evening who said that he did create quite a few opportunities and he certainly brought direction and instilled confidence back to the forwards.

Unfortunately lately Jones hasn't been able to rescue Hook as he has done on times in the past.

I stated six months that if you started Hook in the WC at 10 you would not win any games, unfortunately its also been the case when he started at 15 (against SA) if you had played Halfpenny at FB against SA you probably would have won.

How to solve the problem.............
Get rid of Gatland or the very least "Gatlands Law" (giving in to the clamour the Western Mail fan base and too gutless to drop him) as he has been the one who has held good players back by keeping Hooky in the squad (who should have had game time in the 6Ns) like

15 Stoddart/ Barry Davies/ Halfpenny
13 Jon Davies/Scott Williams
10 Tovey/Biggar/Priestland

You (Wales) might have accomplished even more if these guys had more game time and if say Tovey or even Biggar was ine the WC squad instead of Hook.

Hook with Perpignan's guidance needs to completely deconstruct his game, strip it bare and start again, the game has moved on since 2007 and teams and players are aware of his foibles, he has some excellent assets his running game and hand-off are up there with the best, he can come back a better player. At the very least he'll be on some excellent money in the South of France for 2-3yrs, not bad for a player who might not have been guaranteed a starting place for the Ospreys this season, so at 27 it is the right time to move for him and his family.

I think he should forget about playing 10 for Wales ......... with Henson playing 10 for the Blues, and youngsters like Morgan and Shingler coming into the fray, he is going to be something like 7th or 8th in line next season.

fhf, most of what you posted I have said over and over, posters probably tired of hearing it!! but I want, like most, the best players in their positons for our team, and we've got better 10,12, 15 than hook.

The Western Mail on Hook has been a joke; jpr said ''hook should stand firm, demand to play 10, nothing else'' Then, in jpr's article after the french game , jpr didnt even mention hooks name!! he just highlighted players who he wanted to praise. pathetic.

its the ''cant criticise '' ''so ignore '' ''avoid talking about him specifically'' mentality that hasnt done hook any good at all. ''wales will love you whatever, hooky''

i mentioned on another thread that I was told shaun edwards has never
rated hook. this was second hand info. but if you take it at face value, what has been going on with his selection? its the first time anyone has told me this.

when you watched the match, you will have seen the look of utter despair on gatlands face at one point when hook again got turned over, after being totally out of position, jumping infront of another player to have the ball taken off him.

is there something telling hook that the coaches havent got confidence in
him? seems weird i know, but he has been playing like someone who doesnt feel he should have the 10 shirt and doesnt know where to start to try and prove he's worthy.

His confidence must have been low after the french game, why send him out for more? hidden agenda?

or was it that sjones was still carrying his calf injury? or jones was low on confidence and he had played far less rugby than hook during the rwc and before.?

funny thing i can almost hear shaun edwards say after the french game ''well warren, they're always saying hook doesnt get time at 10, put him on again '' too far fetched? just wondering.

FHF whilst I agree entirely about Hook, I dont agree we should get rid of Gatland.Whilst Ive certainly been vociferous in my criticism of some of his selections in the past I think he has earned his extension. Anyway Gatlands law solves our James Hook problem hes in france so not available for the next Oz game.

I also think that wellies has been getting some of the rose coloured glasses treatment as well. Yep he did improve our play when he came on against australia but he is a shadow of the player that he was 2-3 years ago. He also had a shocker against France at the end by avoiding the drop when he was in position, setting the backs into running lines then promptly getting turned over. At 33 its time he was pensioned off for Wales and I think Priestland will be first choice down at PYS.

Tovey still strikes me as frail physically and I want to see him winning some big games for the dragons this year (who are doing very well against Wasps at the moment) Biggar doesnt inspire me with confidence either for the ospreys or wales and Morgan well Arwel Thomas keeps springing to mind. Henson may have just made the best move of his life if he is hungry for it.

James Hook is a tool, and tools are kept in the box until they're really needed

Londonwelsh wrote:James Hook... has proved that he hasn’t yet got the skills and attributes needed to control a game from fly half.

Well that sums it up for me. How long has he been playing regional and international rugby? If he doesn't have these skills and attributes by now, will he ever have them?

I have to say it's a shame to see because he's produced magic for Wales at times in the past; for his sake, let's hope his move to Perpignan is the making of him.

Tend to agree with FHF and Gavstar other than getting rid of Gatland, agree that he should have been looking to blood/test some youngsters such as Tovey. Very much see Hook as a utility back from now on unless he really comes on in France.
As for Stephen I dont think he's recovered from his injury. Having said that, other than possibly a Come in after game farwell to a great servant on 3rd December I dont think Stephen should be in the squad in future (I assume he's goin to retire anyway). Tovey, Biggar and Morgan need a chance to prove themaelves and take the shirt off Priestland. I was also really impressed by Steffan Jones' maturity against Wasps tonight. The future looks bright for outside halves.

spot on subsbench, lets get those youngsters out there. maybe only one will have ALL THE 10 qualities to step up to rp, but we will never know unless we put them out there.

CAUTION ! biggar, 3yrs younger than rp, was put out there too soon , so lets not disregard any one of them at first showing.

lets stop the welsh 'build 'em up, knock 'em down, and do a bit of nurturing.

and remember, never mind club . we are all on the same side

How to solve a problem like Hook?

Why bother? Have you seen Biggar, Tovey and Priestland, even Morgan and Steffan Jones.

He is yesterday's man. Don't listen to Andy Howell, let it lie.

Hook has failed at 10 for both Wales and the Ospreys, why are posters suggesting that just because he is on a big salary in France anything will change? The salary will certainly mean he will be under considerable pressure to perform! He has always looked very good at 13 so he may come back from France to challenge for that shirt in the Wales team.

As for back up; Biggar and Tovey are young and must concentrate on improving their game. Jones, if he can shake off this calf injury, can still do a job off the bench. He can also use his experience to mentor the up and coming youngsters and help build the 2015 World cup team.

I think a lot of people are struggling with the theory of skill aqcuisition, it's common theory that to become a proffesional at anything you need to spend around 10,000 hours doing it, he played 10 all his junior career, and then through youth and early senior rugby was moved around a bit, FB and 13 are totally different positions than 10, and there is no way he can develop the necesary skills needed for either position!

At 15 he is either too deep, or too shallow, he shadows our 10 and gets carried away ball watching, he also hasn't the temprement to commit to the big challenge, or the upper body strength to challenge in the air, the theory that he'll be given room to run from deep ball in hand is null in void as the FB rarely gets time to counter unorganised defences, the strength of the attacking FB is strong line runnin inside and outside the 13 shoulder to add numbers.

At 13 he lacks the defencive capabilities to stop big bashers and pace to catch wingers, the strengths of the modern day 13 are similar to the 15, big strong and organized, with the ability to communicate inside and outside, going forward and back.

Hook therefore can only be a 10, but he has developed bad habits from his time trying to learn 2 alien positions to him, the reason O Gara has such a great vision to control and play the corners is because he does it week in week out for his club, to ask someone who has played FB in the build up and start of a tournament to play a totally different position in a world cup semi is STUPID!!!!

Hook will play 10 at Perp, and will develop his game over 12 months enough to make the Wales 10 shirt his own, if he's given the chance with Wales that is, I HAVE NO DOUBT IF HE WAS PLAYED AT 10 CONSISTENTLY HE WOULD BE REGARDED UP THERE WITH DAN CARTER!!!!

First things first, a permanent position ought to be found for him. He's stated himself in the past that certain positions he's been asked to play aren't his preference. The fact that he came out and said this suggests that he's not enjoying his tour of the backs. Actual specialists should be employed, not inconsistent fillers. The fact that Gatland has persisted with him at 15 is madness, Hook has never looked anything above average there for Wales, I've said it all along and it was exposed in our first two group games.

Second is something only Hook himself can do and that is improve his composure and consistency. Since his first professional game Hook's been largely hit and miss for any side he's played in. Only a handful of times he's performed on the big occasion and his two recent starts are blaring reminders of Hook at his worst. During both games he looked shot to pieces in terms of self-belief.

[ I HAVE NO DOUBT IF HE WAS PLAYED AT 10 CONSISTENTLY HE WOULD BE REGARDED UP THERE WITH DAN CARTER!!!!]

Bues man, are you really Andy Howell in disguise?

Hook has all the attributes of a world class 10, he's quick, agile, can kick off both feet, can stand flat or deep, employ the offload, running or kicking game when he pleases but just doesn't have the ability to execute correctly due to lack of exposure there, move Carter to 13, and FB for the next 2 years and see how he plays 10 after that!

Nonsense. It's a lack of vision, football, rugby brain, call or what you will he hasn't got it and he's been found out.

Bluesman, you're delusional. He's never been able to get the best out of his midfield because his first thought is whether he can make a break himself. Quality running outside halves can spot in a split-second if it's on or not; Hook takes too long and he takes away the space and time his centres need.

Glas

My point is you don't have it or not, YOU DEVELOP IT!!!

Working with some of the brightest welsh stars at the minute at U18 level I can tell you a number of players seem to have a rugby brain now but don't get there, and I could name a few who have made it and surprised a lot of people!

Steffan Jones at the Dragons for one, was dropped after the academy, and went to play youth rugby at Bargoed, some comments were that he just didn't have the vision for top level rugby, he has since matured and developed that insight, maturation rates for rugby are so varied due to the amounts of games players play and when they start playing the game.

If you are a keen weightlifter and change training techniques and do circuits for 2 years are you likely to take up lifting at a ...

1/ lower level than before?

2/ similar level than before?

3/ higher level than before?

Blueman, I think you are missing the point. The reason Hook is being mooved around it that he is unable to hold down HIS prefered position!

PS. Priesland played 15 for the Scarlets in most of the big games last season. Didn't do him much harm did it?

Seagulf

At club level! He wasn't thrown in at a world cup semi then demonised for not being up to scratch!

Hook was given a fair crack at Ospreys when Biggar started to show some promise? Instead of allowing Hook who at the age of 23/24 was moved from his position for a teenager who in my opinion was only really rates in Swansea, to progress into the international 10 he was always going to be they bumped him for what they thought was the next big thing, Biggar was given no integration time into that O's team and was thrown into the first team and noone could figure out why when the pack was dominating all and sunder the backline wasn't working! As I said Hooks maturation was later than most, and just as he was approaching his peak performance window he was moved around and hasn't got back since!

And before the tournament I wasn't one of the 'play him at 10' brigade, I was taking flak for not having him in my 15, probably from fickle numpties like yourselves!

Look at the kiwis, SBW is a mega star, his offloading game can win games, and he has done so, but instead of forcing him in because of his ability Smith has retained the 13 shirt because of a proven relationship with Nonu.

How many times does Hook have to struggle at FB and 13, get criticised and be a villain, then score a winning try v England and be the most gifted player in the world before struggling again in a different position, and being told he was always crap and has been shown wanting!!

The further this guy gets from people like you the better, and when he comes back better than ever and your all praising him again remember this conversation!!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Hook has all the attributes of a world class 10, he's quick, agile, can kick off both feet, can stand flat or deep, employ the offload, running or kicking game when he pleases but just doesn't have the ability to execute correctly due to lack of exposure there, move Carter to 13, and FB for the next 2 years and see how he plays 10 after that!

World Class ........ Absolutely astounding statement, especially for someone who claims to be heavily involved with players at under 18 level, it beggars belief that you can come up with those attributes when you must have seen Hooks performances from the 2011 6Ns French game all the way to the Australian game, where he started 4 of the games and ended on 2 others at 10. Or is it a blatent WUM?.

He played 10 more times than anyone in the 6Ns, he played 10 quite alot for the Os towards the end of the season, and he played 50% of the warm-up games at 10, he played more games at 10 in 2007 and 2008 than any other Welsh player, and he has what 50-60 welsh caps.

He has been found out by the whole rugby community at 10, an instinctive runner with a fantastic hand off and a big kick.

bluesman, the reason Biggar replaced Hook at the Liberty was because the latter was playing as carp as he's playing now. On his day yes he does look handy to say the least but if he's inconsistent he can hardly blame that on anyone but himself. As I said Hook's been hit and miss ever since he started at this level.

Hook is either brilliant or poor, unfortunately this WC it has been the latter. For as much stick as Wellies took and Jinks before them they were always consistent.

Hook needs consistency in his game and I hope that France does for him what it did for Wellies and Alfie. He will have limited time with the Welsh squad now anyway so might fall even further behind Priestland and the other who will hopefully come through.

Hook is to good just to ignore and not utilise within the squad but he also isn't good enough to demand a starting spot at 10, centre or XV so bench it is.

bluesman, working with under 18's, I hope you are good at spotting true rugby potential , rather than choosing players for standing out because they catch the eye . we want TEAM PLAYERS WHO CONSISTENTLY PERFORM. the unbelievable notion you have that hook is/was/ will be world class just does not ring true.

you say he has this skill, that skill , can pass , kick, etc. .......... but he cant play 10.! he hasnt got the brain, you are talking handling and kicking(?) not THINKING, how often have we heard ''top 2 inches''

rpriestland has been playing 15 more than 10, there are others too who have changed position , not only in the welsh team but others in the rwc., come on, lets rest this one.

hooks fans have been duped big time, along with media nonsense''peoples choice'' and as for saying ''thrown in a rwc semi'' well why was he out there if it wasnt to cover/play his ''coveted positon'' ?

didnt you want him to come on at 10 ? wouldn't you have been oh so indignant if jones had been picked to come on first in the french and aussie games, of course you would have,.

hook supporters want it all , they want hook at 10, but if he's poor there are excuses which dont stand up. why pick him to go to the rwc if he wasnt going to cover 10 ? was it for his goal kicking?

if hook has all the skills you say he has , surely they are transferable? apart from the ''top 2 inches'' of course, because thats not there.

My point is you don't have it or not, YOU DEVELOP IT!!!

My point is that all that time and effort is wasted on somebody who doesn't have as much potential as at least 4 others.

I think, as a nation, we need to drop this romanticising of the 10 position as a player with silky running skills harping back to the late 60s and 70s

OK, but what about the leadership, distribution, kicking and defensive organisation demanded of modern 10's. He doesn't have those either!

IronMike wrote:I think, as a nation, we need to drop this romanticising of the 10 position as a player with silky running skills harping back to the late 60s and 70s

....and just accept Hook who has none of these qualities

Gatts wrote:

IronMike wrote:I think, as a nation, we need to drop this romanticising of the 10 position as a player with silky running skills harping back to the late 60s and 70s

....and just accept Hook who has none of these qualities

Its the reason why Hook is so popular isnt it? I cant really think of another reason except for some of his game breaking moments, its not a coincidence we have played some of our best rugby with Priestland at 10, who isn't Phil Bennett or Barry John in terms of running.

Since the lions tour we have all criticised Jamie Roberts for not being as affective as he was, we all thought it had to do with his centre partner not being as creative as O'Driscoll, then Priestland comes along, all of a sudden hes punching holes in defence and playing with the form of his life.

I can't argue with that. Hooks a 13 or nothing

Nothing then. For goodness sakes he was a scrum half at youth level.

Front row...could swap with Geth who in 10 seconds looked more like a running 10 than anyone else in the squad

I agree that Hook hasn't be on form recently, so therefore should not be playing at 10 for Wales, but he's been a good player for Wales in patches before, so I too hope he can regain that in France.

Also, he's a great guy, not one of the players you used to see out on the lash in Cardiff after a night out, and if rumours are to be believed, was one of the players to walk out on the Ospreys Xmas high-jinx last year, so cut him a bit of slack, some of the abuse is getting personal towards him, when he's one of the good guys.

non ei have seen is personal, there is far too much professional abuse to dish out for that!

Well I hope the move to France will show us whether he has it and was the victim of Ospreys misuse or whether hes just too flaky. Remember he played a huge part in a grand slam victory.

Chris, players have a couple of poor games and they get massive abuse. Score a couple of tries in crunch games and they are gods. That's the welsh way.

Look at Mike Phillips. Until recently he was roundly abused as a has-been, with even Ospreys fans saying they were glad to see the back of him. Now fans on this board are seriously calling him the best 9 in the world!

Priestland will have a mare at some point and get the same treatment. You can regard that as a certainty.

Hook was poor in the WC. Very poor. In the semi and the third place play-off, he probably gave his worst performances in a Wales shirt. Even if you ignore some of his poor decision-making and tactical play, he failed to kick goals. And they were really costly. For those with longer memories, we also failed to kick our goals against Fiji in 2007.

HOWEVER, Hook is messed about. For me, he is not a FB and should never play there. And I mean NEVER. Hook is always expected to suddenlt play brilliantly at 10 when he doesn't play there for his club and then he's moved there by his country when Priestland (who was excellent) is injured.

Hook is either a 10 or a 13. His time in France will show whether he can consistently play well at 10 (assuming he gets the chance to play 10).

Gatland has to review his whole goal-kicking strategy. 1/2p takes the harder, longer kicks, so why not give him the easier ones? Hook and Jones can be very good kickers, but they've both missed key shots at goal at crucial times, in crucial matches. If Wales are to convert very narrow losses into wins, this is a key are to find a solution for. We need a reliable, nerveless kicker. Both Hook and Jones struggle to hit kicks from 40m or beyond. I'd give the kciking duties to 1/2p. I'd also consider Henson if he proves himself to be kicking well (distance is not an issue if he's fit).

Does 1/2P take ordinary kicks regularly for the blues? It's a very different proposition being a long-distance specialist, since you are taking kicks you are not really expected to get and they are usually pretty straight. 1/2P had an average of about 33% in this WC, but that didn't matter since the ones that went over were basically bonuses and you get field position anyway.

It was interesting to see how many kicks were missed in the final. Even Donald's winner just squeaked in past the post.

As samurai says halfpenny doesnt take all the kicks for club or country, I imagine bcoz hes not that consistent.also jones normally has a very high % but in this wc most 10s struggled. I have to question 1 thing about hook people clamour to have him start at 10 and when he does and plays badly they say he hasnt playd much at 10. But if thats so and he cant b expectd to play well if hes 'chuckd into a wc semi final' then why was he in the team or even the squad (as we have better 2nd choice centres and fb). And I must say I think hes had ample time,2 seasons of 1st choice at ospreys where he was inconsisten and most of 60caps for wales at 10. He didnt get the backline movin,didnt set the defensive line but did occasionally shine and score tries.

yes, well , said it before I'll say it again, Hook has played 10 at club level, lost it, more 10 starts at ospreys than anyone else, lost it,.more 10 starts this season at international level than anyone else, lost it, what else is there to say . NOTHING

How To Solve A Problem Like Hook ? Put him on the rack?

Does anyone think Hook isn't trying? Or that he wants to lose? Of course not. He is simply a very good player who can be very inconsistent, which is fatal at the top level. I like the idea of him as a sub off the bench or a spot starter. But thats all. Was a good stand-in as Wales waited for the successor to Mr. Jones. And now we know the identity of at least one.

Halfpenny isn't the usual kicker for the Blues thats always been done by Robinson, Parks or Blair.

IMO even when Halfpenny lines up his monsters its always a bit of a 'well its bonus if it goes over' shot to nothing type of kick.