Was New Zealand winnng good or bad for rugby?

I'm not trying to be cynical here or anything but was New Zealand's win today a good or a bad thing for our sport? Will New Zealand with the monkey off their back win most World Cups from now on and destory all before them or just more often, or will nothing really change? Similarly had they lost would NZ rugby taken a major step back and not recoverd from a massive blow?

I'm not sure myself so I'll listen to what people have to say before making my mind up. Btw congrats to New Zealand on winning

The result of this match will not change rugby. NZ is completely sold on Rugby and Rugby is in good health in it's French strongholds. However, with every year that NH club rugby intensifies, the lesser the gap between the SH and NH. SH domestic rugby is almost bust. If a critical mass of this team now move North, so that threats of no All Blacks caps for those playing abroad are exploded, the balance of World rugby power may yet shift.

Since most posters today think NZs win today was fixed by Craig Joubert it does`nt really matter what we think does it?
EVERY game since 1905 they`ve won is tainted and every ref is bent RIGHT!!!
NO being cynical NZ are the ONLY side to have won EVERY match in this RWC.
YES they may have been second best today,and yes they may have conceded another couple of Penalties.BUT the goalkicking was so poor by BOTH sides there is no guarantee they would convert them,
There game and finishing was so inept they would`nt have scoreed another try if it had continued all day.
Since in any given year the AB`s drop maybe 2 matches in 14 or 15 whether they have the title RWC holders or NOT.
It will make no difference whatever,obviously most here consider the match result should be over ruled.
Then awarded to a side that patently threw or could`nt be bothered in the pool stages.
HAIL FRANCE WORLD CHAMPIONS !!!

NZ have been consistently the best team forever, don't think winning the world cup will change most peoples opinion of them

Its not peoples opinion that I'm asking about its whether or not they will dominate world cups as they do alot of the time in normal tests and the like.

As to RWCs being dominated by them NO,I don`t think any side will do back to back ones.
Teams usually go in cycles many of this side won`t be there 2015.

Thats true but a good few still will and the players that will be there will be starting their professional careers around now and they will want to copy these players who are their idols, success breds success.

Good Morning

I fail to see why anybody would be so acidic as to suggest that New Zealnds winning of the World Cup is bad for International rugby, Grow up just because you dont like New Zealand is no excuse, We Won grow up.

I cant see anything bad coming out of this world cup, conspiracy theories, refereeing injustices and so on aside the best team one.

They were the best team before the world cup, they have been the best team most of the time since they won the last world cup, if they continue to win it for the next hundred years they'll probably deserve it.

But rugby is a fickle game and even the best can be beaten.

If NZ had lost France would have been worthy champions. NZ won the game and they are deserving champions. I can´t see how this has an impact on rugby. There has never been an undeserving RWC winner nor an unworthy 3N and 6N champion.

Maestag
Too true, and as a New Zealander I know we can get turned over when we least expect it.But in the eyes of many others its a case of:
If New Zealand lose then they are chokers.
And if New Zealand win then they are cheats.

I bet they wouldnt have the guts to judge their own team so harshly and low behold anyone else that might suggest some constructive criticism of their team....

I think the initial intention of this post was actually meant to be quite complimentary of the ABs

He is worried that the RWC might become a bit more like the Americas cup in yachting in reverse, until the kiwis won it in 95 the Americans had held the auld mug since the start in 1851. Bar the Aussies slipping one in in 1983.

That the Kiwis will put such a tight grip on the WEB Ellis cup that none of us will get a chance to see it for a very very long time.

As we saw today maestegmafia, that grip won´t be so tight. There is no night and day in rugby between any team.

If thats what he means then he should make himself clear,ie mean what you say and say what you mean.

Australia and South Africa are very tough competition, and no way could NZ ever get a break away from those two to dominate World Rugby.at least for some forseeable time.

Remember New Zealand didnt win the Tri Nations only two months ago.

erm not sure.

my problems are not about all these reffing issues- all though they are a factor.

itys more about the world game, and the fact that nz seem to blackmail the irb when ever they can , at a detrement to the world game, and this just ives them more leverage.

on the other hand, all blacks are the brand of rugby , so being the world champs could also be a good thing around the globe.

See theres always an accusation that New Zealand cheat when they achieve any success.

Leave that aside, what about the financial state of your domestic rugby?

that was my point not that they bribed the irb- your players done the job and they and the fans deserve the win.

Then dont use words like blackmail and more leverage.

Congrats laurie!

The scary thing for the rest of us is that we saw the ABs win 'ugly' in a low scoring Final, produce another massive defensive effort when the possesion/territory stats favoured France. Yet, they prevailed due to pure determination and sheer bloody guts.

Now go easy on our ears please.

(not you specifically... but your cos-bros in general)

"Then dont use words like blackmail and more leverage."

why not- just because you think i meant bribing- i meant blackmail and leverage- in regards to compensation for world cup years- all due to running a massive loss domestically

Linebreaker
Cheers my ANZAC friend.

Im only being a bit loud for this brief visit to 606v2,and it was only because of the mindless comments posted by some others. I see above that Glas a du suggests im in queer street.???????

mindless comments- this thread is about the good of rugby, therefore an intellegent approach would be to discuss the bigger issues at hand and the global game.

aucklandlaurie wrote: Linebreaker
Cheers my ANZAC friend.

Im only being a bit loud for this brief visit to 606v2,and it was only because of the mindless comments posted by some others. I see above that Glas a du suggests im in queer street.???????

I know how you feel... go for it mate!

what would you call the stunt that the kiwis pulled mid world cup then. do you even know what happened?. do you even know anything about the subject?

they blackmailed the irb , right or wrong should be the discussion, not the use of word- i cant think or another or better way of discribing what the NZRU did.

aucklandlaurie wrote: Good Morning

I fail to see why anybody would be so acidic as to suggest that New Zealnds winning of the World Cup is bad for International rugby, Grow up just because you dont like New Zealand is no excuse, We Won grow up.

Hi Laurie, congratulations on your team. But I don't think it impacts bad or good. The tournamnet has to be won by a team as any other previous world cups, is it better because NZ won, would it have been bad if France won?

Cheers Biltong
It would of been bad for me if France had won, i think you catch on that I probably cant have a sensible discussion on this for about another week.

I just hate the undertones to people posting on here having cynical digs this soon after the event, We are just trying to enjoy what has just happened and some people around here are hell bent on trying to deprive the New Zealanders any celebration..

well mate get used to it, pretty much we had many dtractors in 2007, "you didn't play Oz or NZ, blah, blah, "you didn't score a try blah blah blah, you are boring, blah, blah, you only kick, nlah, blah.

that is your future, hopefully people will leave us alone now.

Hey you two...

so 6 out of 7 RWCs to SH teams now... or 85.71% win ratio

discuss....

Whatever the Blackmail bit means,I think judging from the TV coverage etc.
Most people think NZ did a fair job of organising this RWC.Does it matter if you win by one point or twenty the Record book says a win.
As Martin Johnson succinctly put it after beating Argentina by a point a win is a win.

yeah, that is prettty much our win ratio in world cups too.

SA 86.20%
NZ 86.04%
OZ 80.48%

Not sure I get the point of question. The All Blacks winning is neither good nor bad for Rugby as a whole. Outside of the 1995 win by the Boks, the winner really doesn't have any long term impact. And no winner has really changed Rugby one way or the other.

I think this was good for the All Blacks and NZ because there won't be another RWC in NZ for a long, long time. However, in all these cases, it is always a shame there has to be a loser, and France were noble in defeat. But the ABs are worthy World Champions, and good for them.

First post on this since celebrating the win.
France once again proved theyre still very much an enima.
If not for the lessons learned from 2007 we would have lost another to france.
Im not gonna even bother with poor ref comments.
First time ive even heard of it is here.
France were mighty and the abs needed to bring everything to this match.
Just been watching the parade down queen st where crowds sometimes 30-40 deep have lined queen street.
The abs sure know how much this meant to kiwis.
Dont worry biltong. Anything about nz this or that over the next months or years will fall on deaf ears. We beat france twice, oz, argie and did just enough to win it, not losing a match.

We had our share of injuries and luck with refs. We had to go to our fourth 10 to kick the winning goal.

Did we deserve it? absolutely. Did we underestimate what was really required to win these things previously. Again. Absolutely. I also think we'll be more prepared for this events from now on having learnt what it takes.

Anyway. Things move on. It nice to have the cup back for a while. Next year brings more different and exciting things for us all.

Hi taylorman
Going to that test last night was like watching my lotto numbers come up.I still havent seen a TV replay so I have absolutely no clue what the anti Joubert brigade are on or on about...

ABs winning the match is neither good nor bad for World Rugby.

They are teh best team in the world and can now call themselves World Champions, but the result has relevance to the state of world rugby - which sadly is in a parlous state.

Hopefully winning will provide a boost to NZ rugby, which if you believe the papers is close to be financially bankrupt at AB and S15 franchise level.

France once again proved theyre still very much an enima

Dirty bar stewards!

Glas a du wrote:

France once again proved theyre still very much an enima

Dirty bar stewards!

Yeah i had to read that a few times as well

Don't you just love typoos...

As regards to the posters suggesting that I was being cynical I think its fairly clear I have misunderstood, the question basicly was would the ABs dominate the world cup ala as someone else said the situation with the Americas Cup up to 95. This was not an attempt to wind anyone up, I congraduated New Zealand at the end of the post as well so I'm not sure how someone could think I'm anti New Zealand, quite the opposite in fact.

You know, my friend, you will never live this down

Taylorman wrote:First post on this since celebrating the win.
France once again proved theyre still very much an enima.

Its spelled enema, and you may be right.......

smartphone doc...hate using them...takes longer to edit so I dont bother sometimes.

I thought France were great.

Not sure yet if we have put in yet another substandard performance but at least the things learnt from previous campaigns meant they kept their composure and knuckled down.

Enima?

You are full of Poopie Tman

All good...you have a different outlook on things when you get a little inner peace as described by Henry Gatts...one day you'll understand what I mean...

Inner peace from the 'enima' Joubert administered to France on Sunday?

excellent you are welcome to it.

Ahh the ref thing. We had our turn gatts. 07 Barnes was streets worse than either Lawrence or Joubert so I dont bother with the refs debates- because its clear there are NO good refs.

Swings and roundabouts gatts...

swings and roundabouts up to a point, problem is one team seemed to be on the swings having a merry old time while the other spent the night getting booted of the roundabout. Yes of course refereeing is human and therefore naturally inconsistent by comparison with other refs, to err is divine etc etc but the fact is that this ref seemed to be very much against holidaying in France or the rest of his life.

I admire France for being the better team on the night, and NZ for being the best team in the tournament.

Gatts wrote:one team seemed to be on the swings having a merry old time while the other spent the night getting booted of the roundabout.

In 2007 we didnt even get on the roundabout gatts.

19 clear offside penalties- a potential 57 points were left on the field when we lost by 2. At that point we were the best team of the tournament and favourites. When SA and France had their ref moments- neither were.

If Joubert stuffed up...too bad. Too sad. Let others have a turn moaning about the ref- no one gave a stuff when we went through it.

Methinks Taylor has an argument. The esteemed Mr. Barnes administered a massive enema to the All Blacks in 2007. Mr. Joubert returned the favour to France in 2011. I, for one, prefer to call it even and cancel the IRB enema service, although the old boys at the IRB probably do have their colonics regularly. The Boks were deserved winners in 2007 and the ABs in 2011.

The AB's winning the WC is for me a double edged sword as i genuinely feel that the AB's have been the benchmark team for the best part of a century, and after 1987 i thought that they would win the next few, because thats how much better they were than the other teams. I respected and admired them for the no- nonesense group of winners they seemed to be.

But the last 20 years or so has changed them from my most favoured team to a team that i don't really like or admire, and i don't think i can be accused of sour grapes because my team, England were abysmal during most of that era (barring world cup win)


I believe that AB cynicism, allied to blatant rule breaking and cheating (theres no other term) and a sense of victimhood when they lost, alienated most people from a fine sporting and winning Brand. But for me the most irritating piece of BS is the elevation of the Haka, which is sheer crap, and has no place on a Rugby pitch if it cannot be faced up to. This and the playing cynically of Refs and Rugby establishment is the reason i support any team against the AB's, even the Welsh. So, well done but i don't like you, but actually really like the NZ people, just not near a Rugby pitch!