James Degale: Too much too soon?

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Made a good read, Sean.
In answer to your question in the bluntest way possible, yes I think he is rushing a bit too much.

To be honest with you, I don't think he's the sharpest page in the book. Some people fail to look around and fully understand and wander blindly around believing that everything is fine.

No doubt Degale is incredibly talented and in flashes especially against the Pole he looked incredible, however I will say this, I think in that particular fight he was reacting somewhat to the press that he got from the Groves fight. Many people were saying he needed to throw more to let his hands go, problem is styles make fights and that doesn't necessarily translate to what you should do against another opponent.

Here I think Degale made that mistake wanted to rprove to people he could let his hands go, problem was this guy was coming forwards not moving away and suckering him in. I believe if Degale used the typical tactics that he used against Smith all would have been fine and he would have looked good. However he decided to go with perhaps what he should have gone with against Groves, this wasn't a good idea seeing as that was playing right into the Pole's hands, standing there almost toe-to-toe at times almost with a point to prove.

Degale was caught by a lot of shots I don't think he usually would have been caught by and think too much was made of his performance against the Pole, that being said if he doesn't smarten up quick he could end up old news.

For me Degale will still end up a world champion at some point, but think he needs to slow down have at least 3-4 defences of his European title then take on a fringe world class contender then look at a belt, though it depends who's holding them at the time, seeing as how powerful the SMW scene is.

Think he'll be alright in the end, but may need to convince a few in his next outing.

I do think there is sometimes an element of fickleness with fans when it comes to these kind of scenarios. On the one hand fans will say a loss shouldnt be the end of the world, or a reason to not to take risks with a fighter but when the loss actually happens there does seem to be a disproportionate reaction and tendancy to write off.

I wouldnt neccessarily agree that Degale is being rushed. He hasnt been overmatched at any point. Groves and Wilcsewski and to a lesser extent Smith were tough, callenging fights but no more than that. There was risk attached to them but also plenty of reward and much to learn. I would prefer this approach I must say to the all too familiar one of undermatching a prospect for far too long with little objective other than to build and pad an unbeaten record - Murray, Brook, Price etc

Naturally its clear that Degale is not ready for world level and indeed he may never be. Putting him in with a top 10 SMW would be suicidal but I dont see that happening. All his fights so far have been very winnable, but many have been a stern test which I think is good and the route I would prefer to see highly rated prospects take. The likes of Khan have shown that a loss early, while obviously not desireable, is not the end of the world.

Perhaps with Degale its more that the fans are expecting too much and feeling he should be winning challenging fights like Groves or Wilcsewski quite comfortably when maybe that isnt the case. At the end of the day winning British and European titles in 12 fights is a pretty good acheivement in almost any era and for a prospect like Degale I dont think the kind of fights he has had to date should be viewed as too high risk.

My opinion is that he isn't as good as we perhaps thought he was. I think he lacks a bit of power, his technique is, beleive it or not, flawed. Too many slappy punches for a start and a distinct lack of IQ, nevermind boxing IQ, will see him out-thought against the better fighters, the Groves fight being a decent example.

No doubt he'll manage to get his hands on a world title at some stage, they're so devalued now it hardly matters. But real boxing fans will know his standing in the game and unless he matures then he's not going to be the fighter we hoped. World title by summer of 2012? I can't see it.

He doesn’t know how to throw a proper punch, that could hold his boxing career back.

Nice article though. He's been matched fairly well I'd say but I'd have like to have seen him have a few more fights. If he goes into a title shot in the next couple I'd agree. But matched tough but well against Smith he dominated so naturally they were confident against Groves. The Pole was tough, but again James was expected to win so hopefully a good learning fight. Now they just need to not jump too far ahead.

I think he is just not as good as Frank Warren would have us believe and he needs to make the money fast before the bubble is burst, reality he is not blessed with any outstanding atributes his speed, power and footwork are average, his chin looks decent, his defence is poor and he doesnt seem to throw a punch correctly. As soon as he moved up in level to better fighters all the above has became pretty obvious to me and Degale will sadly for him go down longterm as another Warren Hype job.

hogey wrote:I think he is just not as good as Frank Warren would have us believe and he needs to make the money fast before the bubble is burst,

I agree to a degree Hogey but my feeling is on the back of Khan flying the coup and the likes of Enzo Mac flattering to deceive a bit Warren has found the cupboard a bit bare and has nobody who can really carry a PPV on their own, this for me is why his last couple of major cards have been magnificent seven affairs with six or seven decent fights rather than one mega fight. This is why he seems a lot keener than previously to rush the likes of Cleverly and Degale into title pictures, because this is not consistent with how he has handled prospects in the past. Personally I am not too worried about how he is matching Degale, he is being matched tough but the likes of Groves and the Polish kid were winnable fights on paper and as others have alluded to will learn a damn sight more in these than bowling journeymen over.

Hes only had 12 fights. Its normal to have flaws and weaknesses at that stage. Amir Khan was equally incomplete at the equivalent stage. Its like people are judging DeGale as the finished article. Perhaps he wont end up a world champion but I think its too early to say either way and he should really only be judged in context rather than on world level terms. He obviously doesnt look world class but this is the point I was alluding to earlier, it seems the fans are the ones judging him on this kind of level as opposed to a developing prospect who is being tested. Few figters are world class after 12 fights.

But if you listen to him Manos and what he says/is aiming for.... World title by 2012? You need to be world class for that, especially in his division.

KingMonkey wrote:But if you listen to him Manos and what he says/is aiming for.... World title by 2012? You need to be world class for that, especially in his division.

[quote]

Yeah but thats a just a boxer talking. I remember Khan calling out Pacquiao when he was being floored by Gomez. Warren wont throw him in with a genuine world class fighter until I think he feels hes ready. The SMW landscape is one of the toughest out there at present and I really cant see where Warren will be able find an easy title. Next year the belt holders are likely to be Kessler, Bute and Ward/Froch. Realistically DeGale wont be going near them.

thanks fro the considered responses guys and i agree with a lot said above. Personally i think he has talent and its no surprise he still has flaws but he is being pushed, he wants 5 fights a year and a world title shot in 2012, niow to me he is not capable of beating any 168 champs except stieglitx who will lose to Kessler in Jan. So why not slow him down, needs to develop his power and ability to excecute a gameplan. I thinkn Frank's face said slow down at post presser after the Polski fight. Degale is th eone who really wants to put distance between he and his Groves loss IMO

but can we really complain that Degale is testing himself so early??

manos de piedra wrote:Hes only had 12 fights. Its normal to have flaws and weaknesses at that stage. Amir Khan was equally incomplete at the equivalent stage. Its like people are judging DeGale as the finished article. Perhaps he wont end up a world champion but I think its too early to say either way and he should really only be judged in context rather than on world level terms. He obviously doesnt look world class but this is the point I was alluding to earlier, it seems the fans are the ones judging him on this kind of level as opposed to a developing prospect who is being tested. Few figters are world class after 12 fights.

agree completely manos. it happens everytime a promising fighter comes through, for some reason they are already being judged against the elite of the division but if they struggle against a single fighter or pick up a loss they are automatically written off.
khan being written off is a prime example. he got attacked everywhere after being decked by limond and koed against prescott. people saying he would never make it but only to improve unify his division and be a fringe p4p top ten.

Regardless of what anyone says, a British and European title (as well as a very close losing effort against the Commonwealth champion) within the space of twelve bouts is an impressive start to a professional career. So why are so many people worried about the rate at which DeGale is progressing (if he is at all)? For me, there are two factors which have muddied the waters, somewhat.

First off, that gold medal. They don't guarantee professional success, but they sure as hell guarantee a whole lot of hype and expectation. McCloskey edges past Prescott on a close decision and, for the most part, is praised. DeGale edges past Wilczewski and, on the other hand, many seem only interested in discussing the negatives of his performance. The truth is, those two wins are largely on an equal footing, but DeGale's gold medal (probably helped by the fact that he wore it around his neck for most of his public appearances for the first eighteen months after winning it) has created a monster.

Next up, DeGale's mouth which, when open, can probably be seen from outter space. But maybe he's not as daft as we all think, because he has certainly realised that whatever a boxer says, there will always be some who believe it. I'm willing to bet that many would deny it now, but after his win over Smith there were an awful lot of people, both on and off the old 606, stating that he was ready for a world title shot there and then, and that he'd probably be dethroning Froch come the start of 2012. Personally, I was amazed at how people were willing to put DeGale in the world class bracket on the back of that performance, but they did - helped, in no small part, by the fact that DeGale himself was telling everyone who'd listen that he was ready for world honours.

A boxer (as well as his trainer) hyping themself up is nothing new, of course, but like Manos said, it does expose the level of fickleness which boxing fans are sometimes capable of. Naturally, those who were touting him to be a world champion by the time of the 2012 Olympics are now more surprised than the rest of us that DeGale is 'stalling.' To some, then, it's a drastic fall in fortunes. But for a lot of others, it's simply a little blip or two enroute to learning the professional game fully, the sort of blip which they were not deluded enough to think would never come.

DeGale is a talent and, while I seem to be in the minority right now, I still have high hopes for him bagging a world title one day. As I said before, what he's done thus far has been fairly impressive, if not spectacular. Do I think he had been matched a little over-ambitiously so far? No, not really. They've been tough but winnable fights, which I would think is the order of the day for him at this stage in his career. He's knocked over eight or nine certainties and I'm not sure there would be anything to gain from lining up another half dozen of them. The Wilczewski-type fighters are exactly what he needs.

But he is in danger of becoming a victim of his own hype; what would be a successful career for others would, I fear, be seen as a disappointment for DeGale.

Yeah I mean just to add some perspective if you look at the other top SMWs in the division and where they were after 12 fights.

Froch fought Adamu (11-1-0) in his 12th fight for the Commonwealth title and won a hard fought 116-113 victory.

Kessler fought Jose Rojas (2-5-0). He wouldnt pick up any sort of belt until his 30th fight and his 5th year as a pro.

Ward fought Dhafir Smith (16-15-5) in his 12th fight. He wouldnt win the NABF title until his 18th fight and 5th year as a pro.

Bute won the NABA title in his 13th fight and third year as a pro.

Calzaghe won the British title in his 14th fight and third year as pro.

None of these guys were being compared to the top guys at the equivaent stages of their career but all went on to do fine. DeGale has won British and European titles so far, and lost a close fight to another highly rated prospect. So all in all I dont think hes too badly off as long as he isnt being considered for a world title. I think a few defences of his European title is what we will see next year as he looks to add some quality experience. I would tend to view him as developing at this stage of his career. Not ready for world level. I think the tough fights with the likes of Groves and Wilcsewski will wake im up as to where his current level is at and certainly wont be lost on Warren so the whole team I think will understand that Euro level is where he should be operating and developing at the moment and theres no need to rush for a world title shot prematurely.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Hes only had 12 fights. Its normal to have flaws and weaknesses at that stage. Amir Khan was equally incomplete at the equivalent stage. Its like people are judging DeGale as the finished article. Perhaps he wont end up a world champion but I think its too early to say either way and he should really only be judged in context rather than on world level terms. He obviously doesnt look world class but this is the point I was alluding to earlier, it seems the fans are the ones judging him on this kind of level as opposed to a developing prospect who is being tested. Few figters are world class after 12 fights.

agree completely manos. it happens everytime a promising fighter comes through, for some reason they are already being judged against the elite of the division but if they struggle against a single fighter or pick up a loss they are automatically written off.
khan being written off is a prime example. he got attacked everywhere after being decked by limond and koed against prescott. people saying he would never make it but only to improve unify his division and be a fringe p4p top ten.

I agree with both of you only 12 fights and also making comparisons with Khan at this stage of his career,would Degale be better off taking the Khan route over to the US,new top trainer,quality sparring and ironing out his obvious defensive faults,as well as improving his all round game much as Khan has done. Degale's definitely got talent no doubt.

The thing with Degale is that he's now European champ so all his fights should be at that level, he shouldn't be taking lesser fights, so we'll soon see how good or not he really is, the same thing with Cleverly he should be taking on world level fighters now he's WBO champ

It's a double edged sword wanting titles so early, it should mean a massive step up in opponents

do have a feeling he would benefit from brothes naziim richardsons towel being whipped at him.

Do anyone else think this looks like DeGale

Spoiler:

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Do anyone else think this looks like DeGale

Spoiler:

I don't proclaim to be an expert on trainers but i can't help but feel degale would beenfit from a more shrewd tactition than mcdonnel

Scottrf wrote:

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Do anyone else think this looks like DeGale

Spoiler:

proof that degale is from easter island and less british than our other gold medalist lennox!

quality haha

He also has the intelligence of the one in Night of the Museum.

"Dumb, dumb wants some gum, gum"

trottb wrote:He also has the intelligence of anyone that watches Night of the Museum.

Harsh.

Scottrf wrote:

trottb wrote:He also has the intelligence of anyone that watches Night of the Museum.

Harsh.