Wales team vs Australia

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Obviously its a few weeks away but this match is the only bit of international rugby being played until the six nations so I thought I would have a pop at selecting a team for it. I wonder what the Ozzie side will look like. Personally I think this is a game Wales really need to win. Australia coming here is not ideal for them in the middle of their off season with players who wont have kicked a ball for a few weeks. Waels by contrast will have players back from injury and who have been playing Pro12 and HEC so shouldnt be rusty when the team meet up.

Some changes from the World cup are certain, Mike Phillips, Hook, Byrne, Powell, Mitchell will all be unavailable. Adam jones and Rhys Priestland will both probably be back by then, Jones is more of a worry than the young ten. Shane if he is fit is a show in on the wing and I cant see Gatland experimenting too much for this game. Only a couple of changes from the RWC squad as we have smiler available again and possibly Henson. McCusker who should have gone to RWC instead of Powell should come in and whilst I would choose Hibbard I expect Gatts to stick with HB but on the bench. Rhys Webb is going to be putting pressure on Williams and Tavis but I expect Gatts to go for tavis this time, come six nations Tavis could be usurped.

If Adam Jones is not fit then we do have a problem, we could play Paul James there again but it didnt work in the RWC and its time we started doing some succession planning in the tighthead spot. Cai Griffiths has played well there so far this year for the Ospreys, whilst Rhys thomas and Simin Gardiner are starting there for the scarlets. RT still doesnt inspire me with confidence in the scrum whilst Gardiner is a good scrummager his conditioning has not been great in the past and hes been unlucky with injury. Scott Andrew is my pick of the youngsters but havent seen him play since the Aironi game so not sure if he is fit or not. Buck has been starting a lot for the dragons but he is a player I dont know at all, can any dragons fans enlighten me is he welsh qualified and any good?

1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Matthew Rees
3. Adam Jones
4. Luke Charteris - Bradley now with Luke unlikely to be fit
5. AW Jones
6. Danny Lydiate - Ryan I guess with McCusker injured too
7. Sam Warburton (c)
8. T Faletau
9. Lloyd Williams
10. Rhys Priestland
11. Shane Williams
12. Jamie Roberts
13. J Davies
14 George North
15. Halfpenny

16. R Bevvington
17. Bennett
18. Ryan Jones Ian Evans to come in with Ryan probably stepping up to the XV
19. Rob McCusker - JT may have to come in for a bench spot with all the injuries hopefuly Tipuric or McCusker will be fit.
20. Tavis Knoyle - Rhys Webb is looking good as well
21. Jason Tovey
22. Scott Williams

Just hope he's fit enough to play in the Oz game. There's been calls for Czekaj to get a recall based on this seasons form - whats your opinion Wales 606, is he good enough to play international or just a good regional player?

maestegmafia wrote:I am imagining that Gatland will try to pick a strong side based on previous Welsh form, so most of the RWC squad will be involved if fit.

Taking that likely to miss James, Mitchell, Charteris, Lydiate, Phillips, Hook, possibly Roberts, possibly Halfpenny and Byrne thats a sizeable amount of talent plus a couple of Also-Rans who make up the squad/bench.

Likely team would be looking like

Geth
Rees
Adam
AWJ
BD
McCusker
Warburton (Capt)
Faletau
Williams
Priestland
Williams
Scott Williams
JD2
North
???

mm,

Thats still 6 of our 1st choice pack,

Williams and Priestland would be most peoples 1st choice

Sc Willimas and North will be good to see how they go

maybe Tovey at XV or as some have been saying Czeckai

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Just hope he's fit enough to play in the Oz game. There's been calls for Czekaj to get a recall based on this seasons form - whats your opinion Wales 606, is he good enough to play international or just a good regional player?

Im not sure, he is in the best form of his career, but still has limits playing at FB.

However, he does have a good boot and is a powerful runner/counter-attacker from FB.

If Halfpenny diesnt get fit, and with Byrne in France the only other options will be Steffan Jones (who has had little regional gametime), Martyn Thomas (who has only shown patches of from in between long layoffs), Fussell (dont make me laugh) or Liam Williams (who has played most of his time on the wing)

Id like to see Cuthbert, Shane, North, Halfpenny and (if his form continues) Liam Williams called up for the Aus game - but if one of them is injured then Czekaj probably deserves a shot.

I think I would rather see Steffan Jones, Prydie, Liam Williams or Dan Fish, whichever is in the best form at 15 rather than Tovey, who i see as a flyhalf not a full back or Czekaj who i just plain dont rate.

I agree that Tovey is a flyhalf rather than a FB but then so is Priestland and he's done well at FB, Tovey has looked good at FB when he's needed to and has a lot of good attributes he could bring to the team from FB. Think I'd prefer to see Tovey there to Czekaj as Wales606 pretty much summed up how I feel about him. I think it's too soon for Liam W, and probably S Jones for the int team. And unfortunately Prydie has had hardly a chance for the Ospreys so can't be considered - Fish is definately an option for the future but is again injured (I think) for the Oz game. So the options are thin on the the ground

We all know Gatland has habit of playing a 'utility' playing in certain positions so Tovey could get a shot.

More likely I guess would be he picks Jones at 10 Priestland at XV

I'm ambivalent about this match. I doubt the wisdom of its timing, a week before the crucial HC double headers. I appreciate that a bankrupt WRU is a problem in itself. I hope that it's taken as an opportunity to cap one two new players, even if only off the bench. I wouldn't be surprised if a number of nighlimg injuries were picked up as this month goes on.

Well its going ahead mate...

And it would be great if we could win it

Of course. I'm as fickle as the next Wales supporter. I'm not a hypocrite, my opinions are just subject to change with the prevailing wind. And I don't think I'm alone in that! If they could ein of curse it may be excellent preparation for the double header and I would look a prat. I wouldn't be alone there either!

Maesteg - a theoretical question - would you be happy if we beat Oz and showed a lot of progress and god play but then lost a few players - maybe North, A Jones and Faletau to injuries for a few months as a result of the amount of games, making them unlikely to play in the 6N?

injuries happen mate, it is a contact sport and there are no reasons why a player is more likely to get injured against Australia than playing against Treviso or Northampton.

Obviously I would never be happy that a player was injured. Though through Injuries and unavailabilities we get to try other young players. Look at how well that has gone for us. Priestland make a huge difference this year.

Yes but the chance of an injury generally increases by a significant percentage when players are tired, over played or aren't fully fit - especially when playing at the highest intensity - which playing an international against a Top 3 team is and playing the Pro 12 against Trevisio isn't.

That's why so many off our Welsh ints have had shoulder surgery, and why North was out for most of last season because he was half fit and fatigued when he played his 4th AI against NZ and had to have shoulder surgery at the age of 18.

You also notice that AJones and G Jenkins have been out for so long last season after being ever presents before that.

We do get to try new youngsters it's true, but I get the feeling this Oz game will be a game too far and a lot of niggling or serious injuries will come out of it (Look at Roberts injured in his first match - a HEC match at that) and as a result our 6N's will be severly affected - which makes me question the wisdom of the Oz match over decent recuperation time (from the WC)

The Six Nations is far more important than this match against the Wallabies.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:The Six Nations is far more important than this match against the Wallabies.

I understand your point luckless as the 6N is a meaningful piece of silverware and is the bread and butter of international rugby in the NH. However I think there is a bigger picture here that we have to look at.

If we aspire to be a top four side and serious contenders for the RWC in 2015 we have to start beating the Southern hemisphere. When Gatts came in four years ago he said we have to play the top 3 more to get to their level. Well we have done that and were playing better than before and giving the top teams a game but. We still lost to SA and Oz admittedly only by a narrow margin. We now need to start turning narrow defeats to victories over these guys.

This game against Oz gives us the oppurtunity to do that. I actually think that the series against Oz next summer is our most important priority not the Six Nations. Breaking our duck in the 6N in 05 and 08 exorcised the demons of the 90s, In my lifetime we have won I think 5 grand slams 7 Triple crowns and 9 champioinships. We havent beaten the All Blacks or won a world cup. That is what I want to see us achieve in the next four years I think it starts with beating the Australians next month.

The problem with this game and the more organised AI series of games is the fine line between going for the win and giving youth the chance.

We can't afford to just chuck a load of in-experienced youngsters in as they need the blanket of having some experience around them but at the same time we do need to give them some exposure.

I would look at how much players have already played and then rotate/rest accordingly.

For example:

Jenkins Rees/Hibbard Jones - Thay have all had their run of injuries and not played much so would give them a start.

AWJ & Charteris - Both played a lot in the WC so maybe giving them a rest and having a look at Davies and myabe I Evans would be worth it.

Lydite & Roberts - Both have knocks anyway but even if fit it would be tempting to give them a longer rest to make sure fit for 6 Nations, so look at McCusker and Sc Williams.

By using that sort of method you can have a look at youngsters or fringe players whilst keeping nucleus of squad.

But when we did that before Bedford we almost lost to fiji and played awful even though a lot of the team were 1st teamer (around half) - It shows how fragile our strength in depth is, in that you change a few key positions and the way the whole team plays is suddenly changed completely.

Priest,

I agree but thats the fine line, I would rather do it in an AI game than have to do it in a 6 Nations game.

If we went for a pack of:

Jenkins Rees Jones
Davies Evans
McCusker Faletau Warburton

Then it wouldn't be a pick shake up, likewise if we went with:

Ll Williams Priestland
Sc Williams Davies
Halfpenny North and A N Other youngster on the wing

Again it wouldn't be that much of shake up.

You could always cover bench with the experience but only use them if need be.

I think our strength in depth is a lot better than a year ago. we could play a team of youngsters or backups like below.

1. Bevvington.
2. Owens,
3. Rhys Thomas/Jarvis/Gardiner/Andrews no real standout after mitchell
4. Ian Evans
5. Read
6. McCusker
7. Tipuric
8. JT
9. Webb
10. Tovey
11. Liam WIlliams
12. Bishop
13. Sc Williams
14. Cuthbert
15. Fussell

Osprey,

For me thats WAY to many changes, especially against Australia, thats more like an A Side I would put out if we had one .

I like that team Bedford as it has a good mix and the important areas all have experienced players there (front row, locks, 10, FB) with settled combinations in the back row and centres.

Tycroes - that team reminds me of the Fiji team from last year - looks good on paper but is a little too heavy on youth and untried combinations - particularly in important positions.

I'd be very worried by the inexperience and lack of WC players in that front row, and the fact that none of the pack have played together before - especially with Jon Thomas at 8 who shouldn't be playing for Wales again with the talent we have. I'd also worry about Tovey's 1st game at 10, the pivotal position, being against Oz while surrounded by inexperienced players.

That team I feel would be hammered.

No Jonathan Thomas, please.

I know - surely we've had enough punishment for 2 decades - no more!

I would be happy with Tovey at 10 if Phillips and Roberts played alongside him.

So would I bedford, I'd be happy with Tovey starting if it was in a settled team - but to chuck him in against Oz with what is effectively an A side is asking far too much of him and would probably set his development back a couple of months.

I wouldn't mind Webb and Owens playing either, but not too many more changes unless enforced.

Yeah we all except that Priestland is 1st choice now but I wonder how different it would have been if he had to play alongside Williams and Williams in that first game against the Boks.

Ah boys I wasnt actually saying we should play that team just taht our strength in depth is a lot better. My team is still pretty much the as my OP depending on injuries.

Osprey,

Out of that side you named and with Gatlands penchant for trying to blood one or two youngsters I wouldn't be surprised to see Tupiric and Cuthbert involved in a training squad at least.

They both deserve a callup bedford although being behind our captain and Georgie I doubt they would get on. Cuthbert really does have the x factor I think. Steffan Jones at the Dragons is another one. I will be honest, Tovey for all his talent doesnt do it for me. I see him as a very good regional player but Steffan has a calmness and physicality to his game Tovey doesnt and a skillset to match. I think its gonna be interesting down at Dave Parade.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Yes but the chance of an injury generally increases by a significant percentage when players are tired, over played or aren't fully fit - especially when playing at the highest intensity - which playing an international against a Top 3 team is and playing the Pro 12 against Trevisio isn't.

That's why so many off our Welsh ints have had shoulder surgery, and why North was out for most of last season because he was half fit and fatigued when he played his 4th AI against NZ and had to have shoulder surgery at the age of 18.

You also notice that AJones and G Jenkins have been out for so long last season after being ever presents before that.

We do get to try new youngsters it's true, but I get the feeling this Oz game will be a game too far and a lot of niggling or serious injuries will come out of it (Look at Roberts injured in his first match - a HEC match at that) and as a result our 6N's will be severly affected - which makes me question the wisdom of the Oz match over decent recuperation time (from the WC)

Hi Smirnoff

I think what you guys are getting at is a valid point but unless the NH season can be re-organised to a format that suits international, Regional and club rugby we will always have these problems.

Our season is so disorganised with some players taking part in about five different competitions at different times throughout the year.

At least the SH boys know thy have Super Rugby, and International touring side, The Rugby Championship then Club/regional rugby, and European tour at the end of the season.

TycroesOsprey wrote:They both deserve a callup bedford although being behind our captain and Georgie I doubt they would get on. Cuthbert really does have the x factor I think. Steffan Jones at the Dragons is another one. I will be honest, Tovey for all his talent doesnt do it for me. I see him as a very good regional player but Steffan has a calmness and physicality to his game Tovey doesnt and a skillset to match. I think its gonna be interesting down at Dave Parade.

Only seen glimpses of Cuthbert does look to have what it takes, as for the Tovey/Jones situation it will indeed be very interesting, for me Tovey is still our No1 at the moment and I feel will start the big games.

That said all it takes is a little knock for things to change. Tovey has had some involvment with Welsh squad in past so maybe that will keep him ahead of Jones in their eyes for now.

last time I went to a Wales v Oz match I got alcohol poisoning - but we won !

Jamie Roberts was immense that day - clash of heads with Mortlock then setup a try and then he went off with a fractured skull

Well lets hope we get a good result without all the sore heads...!

I agree Maes about the dis-organisation of the season, and so many games being played.

But my point wasn't so much about the regions loosing out, they will but Wales is more important. It was more that this extra game means a lot of internationals are much more likely to pick up injuries and will more than likely be out of the 6N.

So it was more a question of is this game worth it if it's going to damage a lot of promising youngsters/important 1st teamers and leave us weakened for the 6N.

The thing is as I think i mentioned before, we might weaken in some ways if top players are injured, but it forces us to look at alternatives which in the long run makes us stronger..

Look at what Leivramont has done for St Andre in France, tried nearly every Frenchman alive in different positions and given St Andre a great platform of experience to select from...

This is an unnecessary match, however you want to spin it.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:This is an unnecessary match, however you want to spin it.

Meh, I'm going to enjoy it regardless

I'll enjoy it - but can imagine how depressed everyone will be if star players get injured for 3-4 months - though I suppose it will open the door for the return of the messiahs - messurs Henson and Hook and hopefully youngsters like Gardiner, Owens, Tovey, Smith, Tupric, S Williams and Cuthbert will be given a chance (though not on mass hopefully)

They could as easily get injured in the Heino/Pro 12/ Amlin/ 14 etc

Its a chance for the Welsh supporters to see the WC heros play together for the last time before the 6 Nations.

And yeah, its prob an excuse for the WRU to make some money but that will be put back into infrastructure and player development.

It will also (hopefully!) keep the renewed public interest in rugby going and get some more bums in seats for the regional games.

Will this fixture cause any international players to miss any European games for their Regional team?

Probably

I was relating to the added gametime and significant reduction in rest periods for the players - this would be true in any game if there was an extra HC or Pro 12 game - but if the Oz game wasn't on then the clubs would more likely rest most of their internationals at different times over December and they wouldn't play to such a high intensity when they did play as in the Oz game.

Therefore injuries would be reduced.

If I haven't explained myself properly then I apologies but I mean it's not the fact that their playing a game that I feel increases the risk of injuries - it's the fact that their playing an additional high intensity game at a period when they've been playing high intensity HC games amid a busy club/region period having just come back from the most intense int competition in the world. When all this is combined then the Oz game may be the straw that broke(/injured) (some of) the players - I mean look at how Roberts got injured in his first game back.

munkian wrote:

luckless_pedestrian wrote:This is an unnecessary match, however you want to spin it.

Meh, I'm going to enjoy it regardless

There is no spin needed, it is happening and it will have cause and effect on Wales and the regions, both good and bad...

munkian wrote:Its a chance for the Welsh supporters to see the WC heros play together for the last time before the 6 Nations.

And yeah, its prob an excuse for the WRU to make some money but that will be put back into infrastructure and player development.

It will also (hopefully!) keep the renewed public interest in rugby going and get some more bums in seats for the regional games.

To hell with the supporters on this one, it's a game the players could do without.

It's also a game I imagine a lot of players would want.

Well neither of us has asked them, Maesteg, so we're both guessing on that.

You know what it is like when you lost to a team in the final rounds of a big competition. You always want to go give them hell.

Apparently the squad will be in training a week monday expect squad announcements next week. The players will get a full 13 days in camp training pre match.

I heard the training squad will be announced this weekend but I'm guessing that'll be whittled down some.

I would presume that it will be announced sunday at the earliest.

I've heard it will be announced on Sunday as well - the squad that is.