Sam Tomkins.

I like to watch Rugby League on occasions, and the topic of cross-code converts will crop up from time to time - but Sam Tomkins is a genuine world class talent who I'd love to watch on a Union field. Ben Westwood is another player who I have a lot of time for.

He (Tomkins) has some superb attributes. Agile as a gazelle, deceptively strong and all the skills with the ball in hand to cut defences to shreds. He's also a steady man at the back when called upon under the high ball. Yesterday against the Australians served to prove a point to some. But with all the abuse he got in the past season, especially at Headingley when England played the Exiles, do you reckon he'd say 'bugger it' and make the move?

I'd still see him as a 15, and I think he'd be a far more logical convert than Kyle Eastmond.

Maybe this sounds disrespectful, as he may not wish to leave Rugby League. However, if that's the case then he'd have to head over to the NRL to play at the top level every week.

What do you guys think?

His brother Joel is supposed to be on his way to Sarries. I’ve read that he’s going a season ahead of Sam to test the water. To be honest, there are rumours of either persuasion. Some think he’s staying in league, others don’t. His responses are pretty mixed, he say’s he is happy to stay at Wigan, but keeps suggesting that he is tempted by a switch of codes. I would suggest a lot will depend upon how well Joel settles in.

Yeah, I keep hearing about Joel Tomkins making the hop. I just wonder where he'd fit into a Union side?

Joel is being eyed up as an outside centre I think. Sam is an odd one, he could be a fullback, but I reckon who ever shells out for him (and they would have to shell out!) will want him in a more influential role, perhaps at stand off or one of the centres, although some people think he is too small for that. Personally I'd nominally pick him as a wing and just tell him to be fluid and follow the play, a bit like Chris Ashton, but to an even greater extent.

Cumbrian wrote:Joel is being eyed up as an outside centre I think. Sam is an odd one, he could be a fullback, but I reckon who ever shells out for him (and they would have to shell out!) will want him in a more influential role, perhaps at stand off or one of the centres, although some people think he is too small for that. Personally I'd nominally pick him as a wing and just tell him to be fluid and follow the play, a bit like Chris Ashton, but to an even greater extent.

I think he is too small for inside centre, may be okay for outside centre size-wise but from what I've seen of him would want him more involved than that and certainly not on the wing, I think that would be a waste. Probably got the skills for fly half but wouldn't have time to learn the position so could see him ending up as a full back in union as well, although this could be irrelevant as he may decide to continue in league and move down under. As someone who enjoy's watching the odd RL game (without being a huge fan) part of me hopes he stays in league as he could go on to be a great in that form of the game. However, if he does decide to give union a go then I hope he decides to do so in Northampton

Tomkins looks a special player alright. He reminds me of a young Brian O'Driscoll or Christian Cullen. He's just so elusive and hard to tackle.

I'd imagine if he came to Union he would be a winger initially and then maybe end up at outside centre or full back.

How old is he?

I dont watch a huge ammount of League!

Just an observation - the skill sets of League players seem to be more transferrable to the back 3 positions in Union.

Looking at the converts that have been successful - Tukiri, Matt Rogers, Jason Robinson, Ashton, even Vanikolo to an extent.

All back 3 players. Given Sam and Joel (if he moves) Tomkins a good run on the wing and at 15 - see what happens.

Bath and Eastmond - I've heard talk that he could be a 9! that would be a big mistake.

roddersm wrote:Tomkins looks a special player alright. He reminds me of a young Brian O'Driscoll or Christian Cullen. He's just so elusive and hard to tackle.

I'd imagine if he came to Union he would be a winger initially and then maybe end up at outside centre or full back.

How old is he?

He's 22.

Bath and Eastmond - I've heard talk that he could be a 9! that would be a big mistake..

Would be an interesting learning curve for him. Don't see Bath trying that as they've got Classens and the young 9 who played for the England under 20s coming through. More likely he'll go to the wing and then maybe drop to fb. Though Bath do have options in both departments. Maybe they are thinking wing then fullback and then maybe try him at 10 once his Union skillset is in place.

Sam what has happened to Eastmond?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/15620047.stm

Joel Tomkins,Sam's brother looks likely to switch to Saracens.

Do you think if it happens and works this will lead to Sam joining him?

It's a risky experiment. Andy Farrell was a rugby league great but hardly a stellar rugby union career. He has certainly made up for it though as a coach and introducing his son to rugby union!

Obviously it's down to the Wigan connection.

beshocked wrote:
It's a risky experiment. Andy Farrell was a rugby league great but hardly a stellar rugby union career. He has certainly made up for it though as a coach and introducing his son to rugby union!

Farrell was too old beshocked when he moved. I'm sure he would have been a brilliant no8 if he'd moved to Union when he was 21 and had the time to learn the game.

I'm sure this kid Thomkins can be a cracking outside back if he moves when he's young enough and is given a bit of time to learn before being thrust into the limelight.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/14692205.stm

Link of the two Tomkin's bros in action.

Sam Tomkins was quality against Australia on the weekend.

True Roddersm.

Dont want to jump in from a Union side as i love watching but am no authority , but if i could offer a League point of view ...

Sam Tomkins is class , and will be a huge loss to league when he follows his brother into Union . Position wise im not sure ? he started out as a stand off but was taking to many hits so was moved to fullback in an effort to someway protect him , he likes to be involved a lot in plays . Fullback or Wing ?

Joel Tomkins is very underated imo Sam gets the headlines Joel does the work , hes a lot quicker then people think and has a good pair of hands and reads a game well . Started in the second row in league then moved to centre .................Outside Centre ?

the one thing that lets them both down is their tempers

Kyle Eastmond just fell out with St Helens after he signed for Bath and St's stopped picking him prefering to bring Lomax through , Eastmond played a few games toward the end of the season due to injuries . When he first started he ran alot like Jason Robinson , hes played fullback wing centre stand off and scrum half in league but i have heard he wants to play 9 in Union .... not sure about that ? Wing for me .

the one thing i would add is they are all very talented players and a massive loss to League .

The latest development is link below.

http://www.saracens.com/news/view.php?Id=6615

Does that meen there was no fee involved ?

No I think it means they are trying to keep any fee out of the wage cap (sensible idea). Don't fees after to come under the wage cap?

The partnership link between the two seems a little hazy, do we expect to see young players cross codes regularly for experience or is it just a marketing gimmick with a couple of training sessions throw in? Perhaps another ground option for Sarries?

Sam I think it leaves it suitably vague on purpose. I am quite excited about the whole thing.

Nice to keep us in the headlines. Not about South Africa either!

You were saying Sarries needed another OC option. What is happening with Powell? What will this mean for Farrell?

beshocked wrote:The latest development is link below.

http://www.saracens.com/news/view.php?Id=6615

I reckon Saracens Corporate Comms. made that quote up for him. 'There is definitely something special happening at Saracens'

'There is definitely something special happening at Saracens'

It's a signing requirement, you must utter that sentence in your first interview.

Sam Powell can still play inside or outside centre.

Farrell might be looked at more as a fly half. Of course he can play centre still.

We haven't got many if any specialist outside centres.

I love the something special is happening at Saracens. Certainly better than our song!

It leaves our centres options looking like

Inside centre: Barritt,Farrell,Powell
Outside centre:Farrell,Powell,Tomkins,Ratuvou,Wyles (the last two are only as cover).

Obviously Farrell might be seen as a 2nd choice fly half more and more.

I meant how is Powell's rehab going, is he expected to be back in the first team soon or has his form been ropey since his return and hence he's been dropped?

He has recovered now. Powell has been on the bench. His form has been a little ropey. I don't think being out for so long has helped.

SB wrote:Sam Tomkins... has some superb attributes. Agile as a gazelle

And less likely to take a dump on the savanna.

Seriously, he's a brilliant player to watch.

beshocked wrote:The latest development is link below.

http://www.saracens.com/news/view.php?Id=6615

I'm wondering about the 'partnership' with Wigan. I like the idea of a more open channel between clubs in the two codes, it could be mutually beneficial. It's something I think the Northern clubs need to make more of.

Dont know if it makes any difference but Sam Tomkins has signed an extended cotract at Wigan today now contracted until end of 2016 season .

I'm sure this 'agreement' will allow for him to have a loan deal to Sarries (at decent rates) during the term of that new deal. Wigan get to keep him (and line their pockets with loan fees), he gets to try his hand at union (and line his pockets) and Sarries get the pick of the Wigan talent on loan during the RL off season. Doubt it works like that though.

Wigan wesite says Sam is now the highest paid player in Superleague , so it would cost alot to take him on loan .

Yeah that's true. I think Wigan had to offer him a good contract or else he'd have to assess his options. Good on them, a five year contract extension is a good deal for both parties I'd say.

Signed a contract extension with Wigan. So, am I right in thinking that he is going to give union a go to see if he likes it or union likes him and if its not working he will go back to Wigan - or with this deal, it sounds like he will maybe just give it a try for a season.

I cant help feeling that this wont be beneficial in the long run! Ashton had a stellar 1st season in the championship, Saints were promoted and Diggin was the form wing at Northampton while Ashton struggled to adjust. Ashton had said in that season he really wanted to pack in union, but he stuck at it and had a breakthrough the season after getting into the England squad as a result. I just get the feeling that if Ashton had a deal like Tomkins he probably wouldnt have stayed in Union!

If this kind of loan deal between union and league becomes the norm - we could be seeing a lot more movement of players. And if could cause quite a lot of squad disruption!

Sorry - I'm getting myself mixed up with the brothers.

Joel Tomkins going to Sarries, Sam Tomkins has signed the 5yr contract extension.

Read in THE METRO - the Wigan-Sarries special agreement extends to the coaching staff and academies + a high profile cross-code fixture to be played.