Is rugby the most complicated professional sport on Earth?

by Portnoy Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:23 pm

Despite comments by the likes of Jiffy who claim it's a simple game (which is true only in essence), it seems to me that because of the underlying dangerous nature of the game and the need to regulate it to the nth degree for all the myriad play circumstances it almost impossible for even the educated spectator from the relatively advantageous position of the stand - or (even worse) his/her armchair in front of the telly to spot everything.

Professional sports have taken a number of routes to promote their products presumably in the interests of promoting their commercial interests:

1. Complicate Things:
(along the lines of RU)

F1 where the regulations are so tight it's not a sport any more.
Footy. I used to understand the off-side law

2. Simplify Things:

Since the schism, RL has simplified their game to the point where the only similarity is the shared name.

3. Increase the ref/umpire contingent:

Like US football and (field) hockey

4. TMOs

Cricket, RL and RU use them. But all have different rules. And in cricket they are negotiable.

4. On/off-field challenges.

Cricket and Tennis have on-field challenges.
I would argue for off-field challenges in the much more fluid RU game.

by Gibson Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:51 am

No no no. Girlie beach-volleyball. What is it with the fingers behind their arses?

Scrums are a mess. Refs are not in choon. Game-destroying decisions made by some of them. IRB are a menagerie of imbeciles and are not spreading the game we love to the people, who love it too. And need their help. Its an 8 nation cartel.

Besides that.. we will be grand.

In answer to your question... Rugby Union is a simple game.. ruined by most coaches and a growing pressure to survive and compete.

by Portnoy Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:37 am

In answer to your first question Gibbo - try googling beach finger arse girl volleyball and all may be explained... Wink

It's not just scrums that are a mess - it's virtually every phase of play which is fraught with problems.

Seemingly the default position is for the IRB to complicate things rather than simplify them.

by damage_13 Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:28 am

It calls out the blocking line (cross court or line block)

by doctor_grey Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:43 am

Gibson wrote:No no no. Girlie beach-volleyball. What is it with the fingers behind their arses?

I do believe the girls are showing the cameramen where to aim their cameras. That's a problem?

Rugby really is a simple game. But it is messed about with one million technical laws which make it seems complicated. Put an assistant referee on the other side of the scrum with full authority, sort the bind, and make sure the officials are in shape to keep up with the players or put a couple more on the pitch (for the biggest matches anyway). What on earth is so complicated about not handling the ball on the ground or going through the gate? Nada. So, officiate it consistently and right.

by doctor_grey Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:45 am

Portnoy wrote:In answer to your first question Gibbo - try googling beach finger arse girl volleyball and all may be explained...

My wife just asked me WTF I am doing googling that. I feigned ingorance, a sneaky automatic link from your post.
You, you, you.......pervert. (thanks!)

by Portnoy Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:59 am

You weren't supposed to follow the instruction literally.

(I'm going to do it now - simply out of interest, mind - Run

)

by Portnoy Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:01 am

Ooer. That's not the RFU coaching manual is it?

by doctor_grey Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:08 am

Portnoy wrote:Ooer. That's not the RFU coaching manual is it?

Errr, no. Probably a bit more interesting, eh?

by Portnoy Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:20 am

Reminder : You do have to include the term volleyball into the search - otherwise you get a much more catholic selection of sporting girls.

by damage_13 Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:25 am

or just Volleyball beach hand signals Whistle

little wonder the beach volleyball sold out quicker than the 100m Final at 2012.

by D24tress Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:56 pm

found this wow

http://www.veryangrytoad.com/40-most-beautiful-beach-volleyball-bums/

by Portnoy Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:06 pm

Ermm. 42D,

shhh. [the mods may be noting the slightest nuance of a trend that this article is teetering the width of a fag paper off-topic]

'42D' (?). That was a genuine typo, D24! chin

by D24tress Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:51 pm

this is a sports forum and that is pictures of 40 olympic sportswoman

i see nothing wrong

by Gibson Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:33 pm

Portnoy wrote:Reminder : You do have to include the term volleyball into the search - otherwise you get a much more catholic selection of sporting girls.

I'm in like Flynn...

by Gibson Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:01 pm

D24tress wrote:found this wow

http://www.veryangrytoad.com/40-most-beautiful-beach-volleyball-bums/

Thank you for very nicely wasting 15 mins of my Life, D24. I was well-chuffed I saw Hanson.

Sorry Portnoy mate. Off topic but well on subject. Ale

On Topic:

So. What needs to change to improve the Game? So easy to Diss. So much harder to give credible answers or alternatives. Top 3 wishes on the list? Discussion on them?

1. IRB. Needs someone or something - to shake them up. They are killing the Goose... RWC is a disgrace when you actually think Globally. A joke. Change the Law & Decision Makers.
2. Refs. Standards are down. Number of top-quality refs - not Globally apparent. Needs action and now. From ground up and coordinated & monitored internationally.
3. Refs. Consistency. Atrocious. At League, European or World level. This should probably be No 1. for the sake of the games growth and credibility. See the RABO PRO12 . See the RWC. Same level - in perspective.
4. Players. Those turning into strutting, diving, girlie soccer players. Kill them all. Don't let them breed.
5. IRB. Can we stop trying to please the Kiwis now? The deal is done already. Both got what ye wanted. Move on with the Global game.

by Guest Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:40 pm

Portnoy wrote:In answer to your first question Gibbo - try googling beach finger arse girl volleyball and all may be explained... .

Portnoy, I tried googling that in 'images' and much to my disappointment I actually got images of female volleyball players doing hand signals behind their butts. Very disappointing. Also, it produced an image of a Robbie Savage lookalike with his hands down his shorts! Most unusual.

by Gibson Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:00 pm

Missed the Robbie savage link. Not complaining per se. Just... disappointed really. How are his bum to hand-signal movements btw?

Not really interested, but de wife just asked me to ask ya. Big Strictly fan doncha know.

by doctor_grey Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:21 am

Gibson wrote:4. Players. Those turning into strutting, diving, girlie soccer players. Kill them all. Don't let them breed.

Generaly agree, but which do you want to do first? Kill 'em or remove their genetalia?

by doctor_grey Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:31 am

A couple of dances from down under (it ain't just we Northern folk):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3OhuQFJk4k

apologies for the adds with this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Pddu0WjE-o

by Glas a du Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:05 am

They need to review the laws as a whole. De regulate. My suggestions:

1 ball is offside line in ruck and maul. This would prevent fanning out and get forwards out of midfield to challenge and seek to protect the ball.
2 strict enforcement of the no head below arse rule in rucks. Otherwise if you can get to the ball and you are on your feet you can handle it or kick it
3 football system for yellow and red cards. Yellow cards for ANY professional foul.
4 rolling maul where ball held at the back - obstruction whether truck and trailer or not.
5 any scrum infringements - free kick.
6 Mark allowed anywhere.
7 time wasting - free kick (although if number 1 adopted, would be more difficult anyway)
8 Drop goal 1 point - can go for a drop goal from free kicks.

by Portnoy Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:35 am

Gibson wrote:
So. What needs to change to improve the Game? So easy to Diss. So much harder to give credible answers or alternatives. Top 3 wishes on the list? Discussion on them?

1. IRB. Needs someone or something - to shake them up. They are killing the Goose... RWC is a disgrace when you actually think Globally. A joke. Change the Law & Decision Makers.
2. Refs. Standards are down. Number of top-quality refs - not Globally apparent. Needs action and now. From ground up and coordinated & monitored internationally.
3. Refs. Consistency. Atrocious. At League, European or World level. This should probably be No 1. for the sake of the games growth and credibility. See the RABO PRO12 . See the RWC. Same level - in perspective.
4. Players. Those turning into strutting, diving, girlie soccer players. Kill them all. Don't let them breed.
5. IRB. Can we stop trying to please the Kiwis now? The deal is done already. Both got what ye wanted. Move on with the Global game.

I can't fault you on the marketing side re the IRB etc.

I want the laws simplified to make it easier for the refs to be helped gain consistency (with the help of the ARs):

Unwind the scrum formation laws. No hit is required. Let the ref call the squeeze and once set and ready, the SH puts the ball in straight.

Back foot law: Both sides to stay 1m behind the back foot. Let's see clear gaps.

Ruck. Bring back old-fashioned rucking. Any hands/appendages near (10cm) the ball are fair game. No stamping. No raking. Target of rucking to be the ball, but careful clearing out of player is permissible if that player is directly in the way.

Line out. At least six players in LOs. Once formed, no chopping and changing between players in the formation.

Allow one incorrect ref challenge per half from the touchline. Automatically referred to TMO. To be called within 20 seconds of incident.

Ref to be able to use TMO from the cause of the breakdown leading to the final phase of play.

by Glas a du Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:13 am

Unwind the scrum formation laws. No hit is required. Let the ref call the squeeze and once set and ready, the SH puts the ball in straight.

Couldn't agree more.

by dummy_half Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:02 am

Portnoy wrote:
I want the laws simplified to make it easier for the refs to be helped gain consistency (with the help of the ARs):

Unwind the scrum formation laws. No hit is required. Let the ref call the squeeze and once set and ready, the SH puts the ball in straight. - Absolutely, with the hooker being required to strike for the ball and the foot up law being applied

Back foot law: Both sides to stay 1m behind the back foot. Let's see clear gaps. - I've been suggesting something like this for ages. A similar directive greatly improved rugby league about 15 years ago (where the 10m gap was properly enforced - previously it had been more like 7m in reality).

Ruck. Bring back old-fashioned rucking. Any hands/appendages near (10cm) the ball are fair game. No stamping. No raking. Target of rucking to be the ball, but careful clearing out of player is permissible if that player is directly in the way. - In theory this seems OK, but makes life difficult for the refs. When does fair rucking become raking?

Line out. At least six players in LOs. Once formed, no chopping and changing between players in the formation. -Please God, yes. No movement from the positions until the ball is released by the hooker, and a free kick for any early lifting.

Allow one incorrect ref challenge per half from the touchline. Automatically referred to TMO. To be called within 20 seconds of incident. - Just for penalty offences or for forward passes as well?

Ref to be able to use TMO from the cause of the breakdown leading to the final phase of play. - Seems like a sensible change to me.

by Glas a du Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:15 am

Back foot law: Both sides to stay 1m behind the back foot. Let's see clear gaps. - I've been suggesting something like this for ages. A similar directive greatly improved rugby league about 15 years ago (where the 10m gap was properly enforced - previously it had been more like 7m in reality).

Nonsense. It is a contact sport where you contest for the ball. The whole back foot law is a nonsense anyway. The sight of teams leaving the ball at the base of a ruck to waste time should be anathema to rugby. Bring this one in and it will get worse.

by Glas a du Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:17 am

Line out. At least six players in LOs. Once formed, no chopping and changing between players in the formation. -Please God, yes. No movement from the positions until the ball is released by the hooker, and a free kick for any early lifting.

At least 6? Why? The two man line out is a thing if grace and style. Ban lifting if you want the art of line outs back.

by Glas a du Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:18 am

Ref to be able to use TMO from the cause of the breakdown leading to the final phase of play. - Seems like a sensible change to me.

Yes.

by dummy_half Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:45 am

Glas a du wrote:
Back foot law: Both sides to stay 1m behind the back foot. Let's see clear gaps. - I've been suggesting something like this for ages. A similar directive greatly improved rugby league about 15 years ago (where the 10m gap was properly enforced - previously it had been more like 7m in reality).

Nonsense. It is a contact sport where you contest for the ball. The whole back foot law is a nonsense anyway. The sight of teams leaving the ball at the base of a ruck to waste time should be anathema to rugby. Bring this one in and it will get worse.

Glas

That's a slightly different point - I'd say that if the ball is visible then it should be considered out of the ruck and so the defending side should be able to compete for it as long as they come through the ruck area. My point is more about the fringing and midfield defenders who clearly edge forwards as far as they are able / permitted by the ref.

by Portnoy Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:05 pm

Glas a du wrote:
Line out. At least six players in LOs. Once formed, no chopping and changing between players in the formation. -Please God, yes. No movement from the positions until the ball is released by the hooker, and a free kick for any early lifting.

At least 6? Why? The two man line out is a thing if grace and style. Ban lifting if you want the art of line outs back.

The two-man line-out is indeed a thing of grace and style.

Unfortunately it comes with the downside of having six spare forwards cluttering up the field of play.

by Glas a du Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:52 pm

I can appreciate that, and your point about the ball in tucks, however my point is get rid of the back foot as the offside line and make it the ball in ruck and maul, that way the forwards will he tied in and there will he no fanning out in defence = more room for backs.

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