ABs and NZ Maori in Europe 2012 at the same time and England schedule

Just read that the NZRFU are happy with a new deal which will see the Black Ferns, NZ Maori and All Blacks touring at the same time. England will play from November 10, Fiji, Australia, South Africa, NZ all in successive weeks. Seems a very tough ask for England from my point of view. Do English fans think this is overkill or is such a schedule ideal to see where England stands in the grand scheme of things?

The Maori schedule is yet to be set but it is said to contain several high profile matches. It´s not unclear whether they will be test sides but if they did play a test side, would you be happy about the match? It´s one thing for touring teams to NZ to play the Maori there but should they be allowed to tour on their own right? Maybe a club side would be happy enough to play them because it would never happen otherwise but not so sure they should be allowed to play test nations outside of NZ. Maybe as a warm up match but the rugby calendar seems cluttered enough already.

Your thoughts.

That's one tough schedule.

I'm torn really. If MJ is still in charge then yes I suppose the schedule is fair and he should be looking at 3 wins there as he carries on from the last few seasons steady progression, he must get a win over SA at home soon.

If we have a new coach then I would have preferred some thing along the lines of:
Fiji/Canada/Georgia/USA
Tonga/Samoa
SA/Oz
NZ

Two games he could mix it up a bit in then two games to try out his best players and compete against some of the best.

3 wins with that schedule is a big ask for any team let alone MJ´s England if he´s in the job. 2 would be a minimum but 3 may be a stretch. A draw would make it 2.5 and anything over 2 would be very satisfying.

Fiji is a good warm-up to Australia. But SA will be a bruising encounter as always no doubt which doesn´t leave much left in the tank for NZ. Australia will be fired up after their loss the last time which won´t make them easy and SA could well have a new coach who will be eager to prove himself. If it were NZ Maori rather than the ABs, would you be upset at that yappy?

Also would you rather play a three match series against one of the 3 mentioned with Fiji as a warm-up or all 3 SH teams?

all 4 SH teams............

Well if you´re going to be picky doc then you may as well include Fiji, Tonga, Samoa, Namibia as well. But I´ll edit my comment and say the 3 SH teams mentioned.

Sorry, I am being a pain in the ass to everyone today.
No good reason. Just a sh**ty thursday.
Were England to play the ABs, Aus, and SA, there will no players left in one piece to play Fiji.

I like the idea of the Maoris touring as it adds a bit of variety but hopefully it isn't done too often so the novelty wears off.

I'd have no complaints if it was the Maori instead of the AB's, i've only ever seen one game against them (last years) and it was a cracker. They're a real talented attacking team but i'd say it would definitely be winnable for Eng.

Fiji
Tonga
SA
Maori

Would be a very good learning curve with some real mixes of playing styles to play against and test a new team.

I just don't see the point in taking a beating from the same two or three teams every year for the sake of revenue. We've had our preverbials handed to us by the Boks and 'Blacks every year for almost a decade now and what's it taught us?

I'd love to see the Maoris up in Edinburgh playing a full Scotland side, with an experienced pack and a youthful backline

yappysnap wrote: I just don't see the point in taking a beating from the same two or three teams every year for the sake of revenue. We've had our preverbials handed to us by the Boks and 'Blacks every year for almost a decade now and what's it taught us?

Its taught us that the RFU sees the ABs and Boks bringing in some real serious £££. That's where their heart is. But to be fair, a portion of that money does recycle back to the grass roots, which is important. I am not sure the balance is right, though.

I agree a Maori match would be a treat, and to satisfy the RFU would probably also sell out HQ. The problem is how many teams which could provide a competitive match don't already visit Twickenham regularly? I had liked the idea of the combined Pacific Isles team, but I guess that didn't pick up any momentum.

I'm pleased with that, let's face it, if England really have any aspirations towards living with the 3N Old Guard on a regular basis they have to play them on a regular basis.

The 3 summer tests against SA will be a good marker for where England are at the end of next season, and will require a strong squad of 30 proven Test-level players to make it "competetive".

The only way that is going to happen is by introducing plenty of new blood for the 6N, and that will be the crux of next year's results.

I'd be happy with winning 2 of the 6N games, none of the summer-tour tests and 2 of the AI's if it as a result of bringing new blood into the squad and developing young players at the highest level.

There's little point in winning 3 or 4 in the 6N if it means a no-contest summer-tour and 1 out of 4 wins in the autumn through perservering with the same old faces.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:England will play from November 10, Fiji, Australia, South Africa, NZ all in successive weeks. Seems a very tough ask for England from my point of view.

It's not really any tougher than the succesive week AI matches from:

2010 - NZ, Aus, Samoa, SA
2008 - PI, Aus, SA, NZ
2006 - NZ, Arg, SA, SA

The following thought occur ALL the SH sides are on a very long season,extended Super 15.tours,extra travelling in the 4Ns,end of year
tour etc.
Injuries and fatigue are inevietable so the SH sides may bear little resemblence to the full strength sides.
THAT is not saying they will be underpowered but key players may be injured or recovering from the same .
For England it would be a great feat to down all 4 sides ,with home advantage it should be possible.
As to the Maori they have travelled as the NZ A side [for want of a better word]or the Junior All Blacks in the same role.They have competed in and won Both the Pacific Championships and Churchill Cup abroad.
There record is a proud one ,usually the squad would have a spine of All Blacks.
IF they were able to exist as a permanent entity they would be of at least the average 6Ns strength test sides.I don`t say they would win them all but 4 out of 6 wins would be a good bet.
Time was when Fiji toured first they played tests against NZ services sides[1958]which were packed with former All Blacks.
Later Maori played test series in there own right not sure who the opponents were.

From today's Scotsman: "Scotland will entertain the world champion All Blacks in a Murrayfield rugby Test next year, according to reports in today’s New Zealand media.

Announcing plans for a revenue-sharing Test against England at Twickenham on December 1, it is claimed that fixture will come towards the end of a tour also featuring fixtures against Wales, Italy and Scotland, probably on the weekend of Saturday, November 24 2012."

Think its time I took my wee lad to his first international match (he's an experienced club match attender - Chiefs and Scottish)

Fair point hawalsh. You often hear what teams need is regular competition against the top sides to improve. England seems to have consistency in that regard each autumn. Apart from this 6N, it hasn´t seem to have done them too many favours.

Yes the record is a proud one emack2, no denying that. And yes they have toured before. It´s just I wouldn´t want them straying from their own backyard on too regular a basis playing against test sides.

Doc I hope you are feeling better today. If you can´t good feel good about a Friday, you´ve never felt the gentle caressing of the first cold one to start the weekend. This will get you started.