Murray Feels Hard Done By

On many occasions Murray has managed to get away with using "bad language" on court. Agree or disagree this is against the rules. Today he got a warning. Instead of being apologetic he felt hard is done by. This is what he said (according to The Times PPV)


“Actually I said (I'm afraid you will have to use your imagination here. The Times printed the swear word that Murray used but 606v2 must have a filter that prevents its use) to the umpire and that got me a warning,” Murray said. “I’ve been to watch a lot of football and you hear a lot worse than that and you don’t get yellow card.

I didn't see the incident however IMO a highly paid tennis professional should not swear at an umpire. Maybe it was done in the heat of the moment however moaning to the press just shows that Murray feels entitled to do so. An umpires job is difficult enough without having their authority publically undermined in this way.

I agree that any swearing directly at an umpire is totally unacceptable and must be dealt with accordingly. Sure, these sort of remarks are invariably made in the heat of the moment, all players can suffer immense frustration at one stage or another when things are not going well. But that is no excuse, and nor is Murray's comparison with what goes on on a football pitch (at least at a top footie match bad language from players can't usually be heard by the crowd, a fair section of which is often busy swearing anyway ..... )

The fact that Murray is 'highly paid' is I believe irrelevant.

Your point hawkeye?? An attempt to have a go at Murray for swearing. Well even Roger Federer does as well:-

http://www.odt.co.nz/sport/tennis/74091/tennis-federer-swears-umpire

It sounds from what you say CC that hawkeye has something against Murray in general. If so, I wasn't aware of that and my own comments were made objectively. Personally I think Murray is a huge talent ; his ranking speaks for itself.

As for the Federer link - yep, he too was guilty in that USO match, although such occasions are of course very, very rare in his case (and Fed did have a fair point at the time if you remember just how delayed was the line call challenge that provoked his comments)

I can still remember just how newsworthy it was when Borg once used some bad langauage (at a comparatively low-key event, and towards the end of his career IIRC) purely because it was such a famously unusual occurrence ....!

Caledonin Craig

It was not the just the swearing I was commenting on but Murrays moaning to the press afterwoods about the umpire giving him a warning. He appears to think he should be allowed to do so.

lags72

The "highly paid" bit is relevant IMO because of the difficulty of an umpire having authority over sports people who may feel they are more important than the umpire.

Without respect it would be impossable for tennis officials to do their job. Whilst on court the umpire is in charge. Being demeaned or intimidated by a player can affect how an umpire makes judgments. Thats why it is against the rules for players to do this.

Fair points hawkeye, and I understand what you say about the perceived balance of power/authority between the very wealthy top players and the chair umpire

However as for the 'moaning afterwards' ......I see this as another case (similar to the recent debate re JWT's opinion on Djoker vs Rog & Rafa) of a player simply answering to a journo pushing for a quote rather than coming out with a 'Now hear this' sort of statement

Oh you are so naive hawkeye.

Let me educate you in how matters of the press work. A reporter asks questions on aspects of the match and incidents and evidently he was asked about the swearing incident and answered a question. I would hardly call it moaning more him giving his version of things when asked a specific question. And like I said Roger Federer is the same in any case having sworn on court. Not ideal but when these guys are 'in the zone' and frustrated swear words have and do slip out.

I think that the fact that The Times, The Mail (in the actual paper) and other papers have printed the word Murray said he used in full means that they also don't see it as a hard core swear word. Here is a link to the on-line article from The Mail which shows the high pressure situation in which it was said.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-2060512/Andy-Murray-loses-Tomas-Berdych-Paris-Masters.html

The B word used means an expression of annoyance or disbelief ( he should have said rubbish). Ok he probably shouldn't have said it and I agree that the umpire has to be respected but it definitely wasn't a major infringement.

Is it the bull word he said? not the ba******d, right?

Then that's fine. not great but I agree it's not too bad unless it's the second B....

I have heard Roddick being much more virulent.

The first.

May have misunderstood what you meant by the bull word as the word used ends in cks but it definitely wasn't the second B.

I thought the one ending in hit...but regardless, much ado about nothing.

My girlfriend speaks 6 languages and - fortunately for me - enjoys watching tennis. Therefore she watches the majority of televised tournaments with me.

She loves lip reading the players and repeating what they say in English, and I'm telling you EVERYONE swears, and quite a lot worse than the language Murray used here.

The Spanish players in particular barely go ten minutes without an expletive or two. The only thing Murray seems to done differently here is to say it in English and loud enough for the umpire to pick up on.

But anyone who thinks that Murray apart the game is full of angels, you are wrong! They all swear and they all do it often... Including ALL of the top 4.

Danny_1982 wrote:My girlfriend speaks 6 languages and - fortunately for me - enjoys watching tennis. Therefore she watches the majority of televised tournaments with me.

She loves lip reading the players and repeating what they say in English, and I'm telling you EVERYONE swears, and quite a lot worse than the language Murray used here.

The Spanish players in particular barely go ten minutes without an expletive or two. The only thing Murray seems to done differently here is to say it in English and loud enough for the umpire to pick up on.

But anyone who thinks that Murray apart the game is full of angels, you are wrong! They all swear and they all do it often... Including ALL of the top 4.

I think you've misunderstood. Swearing is one thing but it is swearing AT the umpire AND then thinking it should be OK to do it. What the actual swear word was also should have little to do with it either apart from the fact that using such a word to a figure that is in authority is an attempt to undermine that authority. The rules are there for a reason.

Do those that are defending Murray think that the rules should be scrapped? Or should someone explain to Murray why it is not OK to swear at an umpire. I don't know much about football but if a player swore at an umpire (not just swore during play) wouldn't he be sent off?

hawkeye wrote:

Danny_1982 wrote:My girlfriend speaks 6 languages and - fortunately for me - enjoys watching tennis. Therefore she watches the majority of televised tournaments with me.

She loves lip reading the players and repeating what they say in English, and I'm telling you EVERYONE swears, and quite a lot worse than the language Murray used here.

The Spanish players in particular barely go ten minutes without an expletive or two. The only thing Murray seems to done differently here is to say it in English and loud enough for the umpire to pick up on.

But anyone who thinks that Murray apart the game is full of angels, you are wrong! They all swear and they all do it often... Including ALL of the top 4.

I think you've misunderstood. Swearing is one thing but it is swearing AT the umpire AND then thinking it should be OK to do it. What the actual swear word was also should have little to do with it either apart from the fact that using such a word to a figure that is in authority is an attempt to undermine that authority. The rules are there for a reason.

Do those that are defending Murray think that the rules should be scrapped? Or should someone explain to Murray why it is not OK to swear at an umpire. I don't know much about football but if a player swore at an umpire (not just swore during play) wouldn't he be sent off?

No one is saying it is the done thing to do but you seem to be attempting to portay this as a Murray-only trait when all the players do it. Rephrase the topic and make it players in general please. After all it is only fair.

Well you obviously don't know much about football because they are actually called referees. As I said earlier he probably shouldn't have said what he did. However as it looks like he was asked why he got the code violation he told the press what he said and in his opinion that it didn't warrant it. However he now knows it is deemed as an offensive word so hopefully will not use it when talking with the umpire in future.

I'm beginning to like the idea of an umpire in football.

Sitting up in a high chair, a sense of detachment and authority and summoning misbehaved players to receive a telling off. Worth a try I'd say.

Mind you ..... he'd miss a lot of close-up detail where tricky decisions are involved (nothing new there maybe ) and would likely get his head knocked off now and then ("sorry, didn't mean to kick that ball at you ....")

Who cares, people swear all the time. The guys just passionate, the umpire was hopeless anyway.

hawkeye wrote:

Danny_1982 wrote:My girlfriend speaks 6 languages and - fortunately for me - enjoys watching tennis. Therefore she watches the majority of televised tournaments with me.

She loves lip reading the players and repeating what they say in English, and I'm telling you EVERYONE swears, and quite a lot worse than the language Murray used here.

The Spanish players in particular barely go ten minutes without an expletive or two. The only thing Murray seems to done differently here is to say it in English and loud enough for the umpire to pick up on.

But anyone who thinks that Murray apart the game is full of angels, you are wrong! They all swear and they all do it often... Including ALL of the top 4.

I think you've misunderstood. Swearing is one thing but it is swearing AT the umpire AND then thinking it should be OK to do it. What the actual swear word was also should have little to do with it either apart from the fact that using such a word to a figure that is in authority is an attempt to undermine that authority. The rules are there for a reason.

Do those that are defending Murray think that the rules should be scrapped? Or should someone explain to Murray why it is not OK to swear at an umpire. I don't know much about football but if a player swore at an umpire (not just swore during play) wouldn't he be sent off?

I think you misunderstand. Let me be more clear... When I say that all players do it and worse than this example, what I mean is they are actually quite offensive to each other AND the umpire! It's quite naive to think this example is isolated, or as bad as it gets... Comparatively it's actually pretty mild.

Do I think something should be done with Murray or any of the others? No. The really offensive stuff is said under the breathe or in different languages to try and hide what they are saying. It's a pressurised environment and this is a form of release. The term Murray used implied that the umpire was, lets say, talking nonsense... It was nothing worse than that.

It's either all ok, or none of it is ok. You can't pick and choose which players are out of order when they all do it. Especially when highlighting one of the milder incidents. Personally I fully expect elite athletes competing for such high stakes to occasionally lose their cool. Unless we have current or former top level athletes posting here, I assume none of us can empathise with the pressure...

I also assume that the people on here complaining about it have never sworn at someone in frustration in their whole lives? I applaud all of those for their astounding restraint.

It must be comforting for Murray to know that with Craig around he will never be without a defender.

Murray has a right potty mouth on court, far more than just this incident, and for him gto go on a whinge for this is pathetic.

Calder106 wrote:Well you obviously don't know much about football because they are actually called referees. As I said earlier he probably shouldn't have said what he did. However as it looks like he was asked why he got the code violation he told the press what he said and in his opinion that it didn't warrant it. However he now knows it is deemed as an offensive word so hopefully will not use it when talking with the umpire in future.

I'm not sure how you know that Murray knows he shouldn't have sworn at the umpire because from what he said he appeared to think he should be allowed to. I would hope Murray already knew that "b******s" is deemed an offensive word...

Whoops about the football mistake. I did say I didn't know much about football but didn't realise mixing up an umpire and ref would appear so funny.

Caladonian Craig

I promise if I hear of another player swearing at the umpire and then complaining about being warned about it I will complain about them too.

you could start with Roddick's rant the other day then?

I've seen far worse than that, by Roddick mostly, but also Federer, Nadal (quite funny if you know a few spanish swear words), but Murray didn't seem that upset by the code violation warning. He was upset by the ball changes though, and IMO rightfully so.

What I said was that now he has has a code violation for saying a word that many people use when they disagree with something he will know that he should not use it again in the same situation. He may not agree with the ruling and it's his perogative to say so. Remember we champion people being able to state their opinions on this forum which is all he was doing when asked the question in the after match press conference.

bogbrush wrote:It must be comforting for Murray to know that with Craig around he will never be without a defender.

Murray has a right potty mouth on court, far more than just this incident, and for him gto go on a whinge for this is pathetic.

Err me thinks you need to realise the difference between a moan (hawkeye) and a whinge (bogbrush) and realise it was a response to a reporters question about it. As I've already pointed out even Federer has an acid tongue on court but of course here we have another chance to bash Murray by the OP. Something of a trend in the OP's topics started don't you think?

hawkeye wrote:I'm not sure how you know that Murray knows he shouldn't have sworn at the umpire because from what he said he appeared to think he should be allowed to. I would hope Murray already knew that "b******s" is deemed an offensive word...

Surely a word can only be deemed offensive if a lot of people are offended by its use. It can hardly be described as a swear word anyway.

Is anyone actually offended by this word? I know I'm not.

And saying it to an umpire with regards to a decision is a bit different to actually directly swearing at an umpire, i.e. saying you're a whatting whatever. Something or nothing, as people have said, people say far worse and get away with it.

But you did say you didn't see the incident, yet you were compelled to write an article. Interesting.

Calder106 wrote:What I said was that now he has has a code violation for saying a word that many people use when they disagree with something he will know that he should not use it again in the same situation. He may not agree with the ruling and it's his perogative to say so. Remember we champion people being able to state their opinions on this forum which is all he was doing when asked the question in the after match press conference.

Fair enough. I was just saying I disagree with Murray as IMO the ruling is correct

Other players may have broke this rule but as far as I'm aware Murray is the first to say that this rule shouldn't exist.

As I say that's your perogative. Don't think that anyone including Murray thinks the rule should not exist. All he was saying was that he didn't think what he had said was worthy of a code violation warning.

Hawkeye,

Can you provide the article where Murray says he feels hard done by?

legendkillar wrote:Hawkeye,

Can you provide the article where Murray says he feels hard done by?

I read the Mail in the gym today, and it threw a bit of light on the incident: Murray was miffed with the fact that Berdych asked and got 3 new balls when he (Berdych) was 15:40 down on his serve. Berdych claimed the balls were getting flat, Murray suggested they were fine. I think there's where the problem erupted. Berdych then served with 3 new balls which obvioulsy made the difference. Murray shouldn't've allowed himself to get distracted...AGAIN!

The quote is from The Times. I can't provide a link because its PPV.

Even if Murray is "miffed", even if Murray thinks the umpire has made the wrong decision ( I know nothing about problem with balls ), even if the umpire has made the wrong decision (he is human after all and can make mistakes ) Murray shouldn't swear at the umpire. And if he does (as he is human too ) I would expect him to admit he was wrong.

The whole problem is the inbalence of power not the swear word in itself. I'm sure the umpire hasn't got such delicate ears that he was in any way shocked at a swear word in itself. They shouldn't however have to put up with players who in many ways are more powerful than them being allowed to act in an abusive way whilst they do their job.

Thats why the rules are there. If Murray doesn't understand this then it should be explained to him.

hawkeye wrote:The quote is from The Times. I can't provide a link because its PPV.

Even if Murray is "miffed", even if Murray thinks the umpire has made the wrong decision ( I know nothing about problem with balls ), even if the umpire has made the wrong decision (he is human after all and can make mistakes ) Murray shouldn't swear at the umpire. And if he does (as he is human too ) I would expect him to admit he was wrong.

The whole problem is the inbalence of power not the swear word in itself. I'm sure the umpire hasn't got such delicate ears that he was in any way shocked at a swear word in itself. They shouldn't however have to put up with players who in many ways are more powerful than them being allowed to act in an abusive way whilst they do their job.

Thats why the rules are there. If Murray doesn't understand this then it should be explained to him.

I agree, but different umpires just don't seem to have enough "aura" (to use Tsonga's jargon) to impose their authority these days. I doubt Lars would've put up with that. still, no excuse, bad manners, full stop.

Murray should have sat down and called for the trainer like Novak does when he's in trouble instead of committing the heinous crime of saying the word 'bo llocks'.

I mean, seriously, "boll_ _ _s"? hang him I say!

I know, haha. They say it on CBeebies these days don't they?

[quote="hawkeye"]

Calder106 wrote:

Caladonian Craig

I promise if I hear of another player swearing at the umpire and then complaining about being warned about it I will complain about them too.

I like how you call it complaining and not remarking as that is all it was a remark. If it was a fiery complaint, moan or whinge then I am 100% certain one of the bigger sports media outlets would have been onto it like a shot but guess what? I can't find a dicky-bird anywhere on the internet about this and nothing on the BBC, Sky, ITV or anywhere else . Odd don't you think if he was making such a big thing out of it which he obviously wasn't.

still waiting on that article complaining about Roddick then...

Mad for Chelsea

Roddick can be very naughty on court as he well knows. But as far as swearing at an umpire he agrees with the rules.


ANDY RODDICK: I think if you're saying something at the umpire, I can
certainly understand, you know I've certainly been verbally abusive
to umpires in my career. I think they should be able to handle you for
that. If you do that in the NBA to an official, you get penalized. And
like most other sports.

http://www.tennisnow.com/Blogs/Opinionated-about-Tennis/August-2011/Hilarious-Andy-Roddick-Interview-at-US-Open-2011.aspx

Maybe Roddick could explain this to Murray, Caladonian Craig and anyone else who still doesn't understand why you should not be allowed to swear at an umpire.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:still waiting on that article complaining about Roddick then...

You're suggesting anyone writes articles about Roddick these days?

hawkeye wrote:Mad for Chelsea

Roddick can be very naughty on court as he well knows. But as far as swearing at an umpire he agrees with the rules.


ANDY RODDICK: I think if you're saying something at the umpire, I can
certainly understand, you know I've certainly been verbally abusive
to umpires in my career. I think they should be able to handle you for
that. If you do that in the NBA to an official, you get penalized. And
like most other sports.

http://www.tennisnow.com/Blogs/Opinionated-about-Tennis/August-2011/Hilarious-Andy-Roddick-Interview-at-US-Open-2011.aspx

Maybe Roddick could explain this to Murray, Caladonian Craig and anyone else who still doesn't understand why you should not be allowed to swear at an umpire.

Try telling it to all the other professionals as well hawkeye - as they all do it except The Times aren't interested in a non-British tennis player. Or don't you comprehend that. Ask Roger and he'll tell you the same.

hawkeye wrote:Mad for Chelsea

Roddick can be very naughty on court as he well knows. But as far as swearing at an umpire he agrees with the rules.


ANDY RODDICK: I think if you're saying something at the umpire, I can
certainly understand, you know I've certainly been verbally abusive
to umpires in my career. I think they should be able to handle you for
that. If you do that in the NBA to an official, you get penalized. And
like most other sports.

http://www.tennisnow.com/Blogs/Opinionated-about-Tennis/August-2011/Hilarious-Andy-Roddick-Interview-at-US-Open-2011.aspx

Maybe Roddick could explain this to Murray, Caladonian Craig and anyone else who still doesn't understand why you should not be allowed to swear at an umpire.

Waste of time. Ain't no way Craig is letting criticism of Murray go unchallenged.

bogbrush wrote:

hawkeye wrote:Mad for Chelsea

Roddick can be very naughty on court as he well knows. But as far as swearing at an umpire he agrees with the rules.


ANDY RODDICK: I think if you're saying something at the umpire, I can
certainly understand, you know I've certainly been verbally abusive
to umpires in my career. I think they should be able to handle you for
that. If you do that in the NBA to an official, you get penalized. And
like most other sports.

http://www.tennisnow.com/Blogs/Opinionated-about-Tennis/August-2011/Hilarious-Andy-Roddick-Interview-at-US-Open-2011.aspx

Maybe Roddick could explain this to Murray, Caladonian Craig and anyone else who still doesn't understand why you should not be allowed to swear at an umpire.

No bogbrush nothing to do with criticism towards Murray that I can hack but when a person obsessed (look at the amount of topics she has posted specifically to have a pop at Murray then you realise it is bit more than a bit of criticism. As has already been distinguished all players swear yes even Saint Roger and can't recall him apologising for swearing so what is the poster's point here.....as if we didn't already know.

Waste of time. Ain't no way Craig is letting criticism of Murray go unchallenged.

No bogbrush nothing to do with criticism towards Murray that I can hack but when a person obsessed (look at the amount of topics she has posted specifically to have a pop at Murray then you realise it is bit more than a bit of criticism. As has already been distinguished all players swear yes even Saint Roger and can't recall him apologising for swearing so what is the poster's point here.....as if we didn't already know.

Personally, I never simpatize much with players systematically abusing the umpires.

That's way I couldn't stand Mac, although I admired his class, and currently I dislike Roddick and Serena.

It's fair to say that Murray does it occasinally, but rarely with the arrogance of the players mentioned. As regards to his interview: another episode of clumsy handling of public relations. He could have just said sorry and fullstop.

Yes just like all the other tennis players who swear eh? Hunted around and can't recall any other players apologising or fans on boards expecting them to apologise for swearing so again what is the OP trying to achieve? Or shall we all start putting up a post every time a player is detected swearing on court? Oh how tedious that would become.

Caladonian Craig

Please don't things so personally.

Also re-read my Roddick quote as I think you may have mis-read it. Roddick says he has swore at an umpire (just like Murray did) but unlike Murray said that he should be punished for it. Also unlike Murray he understood that in other sports he would also be punished for similar behaviour.


I understand that you are a big Murray fan but when you constanty question the validity of what I am saying I feel obliged to defend it.

hawkeye wrote:Caladonian Craig

Please don't things so personally.

Also re-read my Roddick quote as I think you may have mis-read it. Roddick says he has swore at an umpire (just like Murray did) but unlike Murray said that he should be punished for it. Also unlike Murray he understood that in other sports he would also be punished for similar behaviour.


I understand that you are a big Murray fan but when you constanty question the validity of what I am saying I feel obliged to defend it.

Ok Roddick maybe nice in the post match interview, but during matches is simply unbearable. Honestly I would prefer the opposite.

And I feel obliged to say leave off.

Your diatribes against Murray are clear:-

https://www.606v2.com/t17348-federer-cool-with-murray

https://www.606v2.com/t15975-murray-was-wrong-says-nadal

https://www.606v2.com/t15310-murray-s-relationship-with-the-media

https://www.606v2.com/t14646-murray-s-demands

https://www.606v2.com/t13905-what-does-murray-think

https://www.606v2.com/t13721-the-sweatband-incident

https://www.606v2.com/t12073-worst-masters-ever (Perhaps because Murray won it)

We catch your drift hawkeye but do people a favour and change the record.

Caladonian Craig

Do those links show why you think Murray should be able to swear at an umpire without being given a warning?

Those links clarify you as a poster who will post any old tripe to criticise, ridicule and discredit one player - Andy Murray.

So quite frankly I'll now take this latest effort as your latest sad effort to do the same. Other posters here (not all Murray fans) have not been offended just like I wasn't when Federer swore in the US Open and I'll guess you weren't either and guess what - pretty sure Rog never apologised for that.

I suggest you quit Murray-baiting and try something else for a while as it would make a change.

Craig, so if a postrer goes aon about something does that validate the players behaviour?

I think Roddick has clarified the rights & wrongs about swearing AT umpires.

There's a big difference in my mind between swearing at a person and swearing in the hearing of a person. The first is abuse, the latter is bad behaviour. There are different sanctions for each, the former being vastly more important.

When I heard the news I almost choked to death on my cornflakes. Public flogging followed by a ritual beheading would seem to be the only acceptable response.

Now I hear there will be an interesting match of tennis latter on this good day between a Mr Roger Federer and a Mr Jo-Wilfried Tsonga. I shall be listening intently to ensure these gentlemen do not abuse the Queen's English.