Mayweather vs Pacman doesnt seem as exciting anymore?

After lasts night fight - I dont see the above as being as competitive as I thought it would be. Marquez was able to negate Pacquiao's left hand all night. He made him miss his shots and lunge forward without enjoying any success.

Now Mayweather is the master of counter punches and we all saw what he did to Marquez - he made him look like a sparring partner.

I have always favoured Mayweather to win the super fight but I am now more convinced that ever. I would favour Floyd to make Manny look rather silly if they had ever fought.

Bit disappointed really as thought this would have been a hell of a fight.

What are your thoughts?

Mayweather vs Marquez was a different mesh of styles to Mayweather vs Pacquiao, but saying that Pacquiao's utter inability to adapt effectively doesn't bode well against an opponent who basically does all the things Marquez does only better.

BALTIMORA wrote:Mayweather vs Marquez was a different mesh of styles to Mayweather vs Pacquiao, but saying that Pacquiao's utter inability to adapt effectively doesn't bode well against an opponent who basically does all the things Marquez does only better.

Yeah I was surprised that Manny didnt seem to able to adapt at all. Very linear in his foot work and didnt really see any angles. Very true about Mayweather being a better Marquez. Floyd must have been laughing his head off last night. Could it be that Manny needs Floyd now more than Floyd needing Manny?

Very possibly. Last night put Mayweather in a stronger bargaining position, not Pacquiao. He just looked clueless at times because Marquez wasn't plodding straight toward him.

i would rather see mayweather martinez and probably not the only one

I'd agree.

Manny has stuck around too long - and lost some hard-won momentum.

In about 30-50 years time - we'll be praising Manny once more - based on strength of resume. Now, however, we're remembering how pedestrian he looked against a guy who Floyd whipped.

There is a clash-of-styles issue. There is also Floyd's dislike of southpaws. But those southpaws still need to be able to force Floyd to fight at a Judah-esque pace. After last night - I'm not convinced that Manny can do that any more

zx1234 wrote:i would rather see mayweather martinez and probably not the only one

Now that would be a barn stormer!!

oxring wrote:I'd agree.

Manny has stuck around too long - and lost some hard-won momentum.

In about 30-50 years time - we'll be praising Manny once more - based on strength of resume. Now, however, we're remembering how pedestrian he looked against a guy who Floyd whipped.

There is a clash-of-styles issue. There is also Floyd's dislike of southpaws. But those southpaws still need to be able to force Floyd to fight at a Judah-esque pace. After last night - I'm not convinced that Manny can do that any more

Good point about the Southpaw's and the pace issue. I don't think Manny will be able to do it anymore. Floyd barely breaks sweat when he fights - so the fitness would have to go to Floyd. It seems the cards are stacking up against Manny more so than ever before.

Dazstarr wrote:cards are stacking up against Manny more so than ever before.

Agree entirely.

Johnny Nelson - who has always amazed me as being a reasonable pundit after being an atrocious boxer - hit the nail on the head, firmly and squarely - when he picked out that Manny had slowed when he fought Margarito. Johnny thought Manny should retire there - after all - what's left to achieve having conquered the LMW division (even if by a slightly dodgy belt weight means).

The Manny of Cotto/Hatton provides Floyd with one of his sternest tests in the ring - due to workrate and speed. The Manny of today eats straight right hands for a long evening.

Dazstarr wrote:

BALTIMORA wrote:Mayweather vs Marquez was a different mesh of styles to Mayweather vs Pacquiao, but saying that Pacquiao's utter inability to adapt effectively doesn't bode well against an opponent who basically does all the things Marquez does only better.

Yeah I was surprised that Manny didnt seem to able to adapt at all. Very linear in his foot work and didnt really see any angles. Very true about Mayweather being a better Marquez. Floyd must have been laughing his head off last night. Could it be that Manny needs Floyd now more than Floyd needing Manny?

I can't imagine Floyd being very happy at all. Can just picture him watching that fight thinking about how much money he would have made fighting Manny and taking a really straight forward win.

I think the money will still be there without doubt. The fight has still got mythical status although there is now doubts of how competitve it will be.

Agree with you there Oxring - it's such a shame it didnt happen around then. Although Floyd has slowed somewhat - Manny's decline seems to have come faster. Sounds like Johnny Nelson spotted this early. Fair play to him.

I think the fight still has to happen to put the speculation to rest once and for all.

Agreed.

Thing is will Mayweather get any credit for it, many are just going to claim Manny is over the hill due to this fight and being unable to deal with a Shane on the run.

Mayweather will get credit, but I think we'll also hear a lot of people saying that Pacquiao had been matched carefully his last six fights or so.

Also will Mayweather get the decision even if he did school Pacman? I guess the fight wouldn't be under the top rank banner and Mayweather would insist on more 'neutral' judges if you catch my drift.

Dass wrote:Thing is will Mayweather get any credit for it, many are just going to claim Manny is over the hill due to this fight and being unable to deal with a Shane on the run.

You give him credit for the win.

But it doesn't settle the question.

The question is prime-v-prime - and to that, we will never know the answer, because the fight didn't happen.

Its like asking who wins - primevprime - Holyfield or Tyson or Holyfield and Lewis - we don't know and we can't know the answer. That they fought later gives us clues - but no more than that.

i dont know how long ive been saying manny was never a serious threat to floyd its just that manny cant fight against thinking fighters look at what has happened everytime someones been clever and picked countering opportunities against him:
morales 1 - beat him
barerra 2 - yet again couldnt figure out how to fight barerra
JMM 1 2 3 - Understoo he had tn pick countering opportunities against him

floyd is better than them all- faster bigger stronger better counter puncher and makes manny think even more. manny can keep up the same pace he did against cotto theres no issue about that but he will never trouble mayweather because he doesnt know how to begin attacks against counter punchers

and gohng against the best one he was always going to fail

AlexHuckerby wrote:i dont know how long ive been saying manny was never a serious threat to floyd its just that manny cant fight against thinking fighters look at what has happened everytime someones been clever and picked countering opportunities against him:
morales 1 - beat him
barerra 2 - yet again couldnt figure out how to fight barerra
JMM 1 2 3 - Understoo he had tn pick countering opportunities against him

floyd is better than them all- faster bigger stronger better counter puncher and makes manny think even more. manny can keep up the same pace he did against cotto theres no issue about that but he will never trouble mayweather because he doesnt know how to begin attacks against counter punchers

and gohng against the best one he was always going to fail

He whipped Barrera twice Alex? Sure, he lost to Morales first time out - but avenged it nicely twice more.

Its not as simple as saying that Manny can't fight "thinking fighters". In fact - that's probably the wrong conclusion to draw. It would be similar to watching Ali-Norton and thinking that Ali can't fight anyone who can counter a jab.

There is always a style that Manny will struggle with - and that is Marquez - sitting on the back foot and timing Manny on the way in. Manny has always struggled with Marquez' movement - and if they fought 100 times, Manny probably wouldn't look good in winning once.

The interest in the Mayweather fight comes in that Floyd doesn't like southpaws - and he really doesn't like southpaws with pace. refJudah 1-6. Today, I don't think Manny could make or set a high-enough pace. However - a couple of years ago - we would have had 2 people - both of whom dislike the style their opponent brings. That makes for an interesting and entertaining fight.

After the Marquez fight im not sure if Manny would fancy Mayweather anymore. It must of put a bit of a dent in his confidence.

Also i doubt Arum would want Manny anywhere near Mayweather at this time.

Let's not assume Arum is doing what he does for any other reason than cash. Manny will not be round for much longer, so Arum will want to make as much money from him as possible. The Floyd fight and a Marquez rematch are the only fights out there that will generate big PPV's, so I'd expect it to happen sometime next year.

Mayweather fights like Marquez. Only he is quicker and has a longer reach.

Pacman suits fighters that come at him. If you look at the last bunch he has fought they have all been the same.

Fighters that like to stalk their prey round the ring.

oxring wrote:

AlexHuckerby wrote:i dont know how long ive been saying manny was never a serious threat to floyd its just that manny cant fight against thinking fighters look at what has happened everytime someones been clever and picked countering opportunities against him:
morales 1 - beat him
barerra 2 - yet again couldnt figure out how to fight barerra
JMM 1 2 3 - Understoo he had tn pick countering opportunities against him

floyd is better than them all- faster bigger stronger better counter puncher and makes manny think even more. manny can keep up the same pace he did against cotto theres no issue about that but he will never trouble mayweather because he doesnt know how to begin attacks against counter punchers

and gohng against the best one he was always going to fail

He whipped Barrera twice Alex? Sure, he lost to Morales first time out - but avenged it nicely twice more.

Its not as simple as saying that Manny can't fight "thinking fighters". In fact - that's probably the wrong conclusion to draw. It would be similar to watching Ali-Norton and thinking that Ali can't fight anyone who can counter a jab.

There is always a style that Manny will struggle with - and that is Marquez - sitting on the back foot and timing Manny on the way in. Manny has always struggled with Marquez' movement - and if they fought 100 times, Manny probably wouldn't look good in winning once.

The interest in the Mayweather fight comes in that Floyd doesn't like southpaws - and he really doesn't like southpaws with pace. refJudah 1-6. Today, I don't think Manny could make or set a high-enough pace. However - a couple of years ago - we would have had 2 people - both of whom dislike the style their opponent brings. That makes for an interesting and entertaining fight.

No, no and no again Oxy...

Marco Antonio Barrera fought aggressively the first time out and was pushed back and couldn't fight in that way against Manny, second time out he tried to fight much more clever however and slowed Manny down and Manny didn't understand how to launch his attacks however he was too far gone to be a serious threat to win the fight. Erik Morales beat him the first time fighting moving off the back foot but still engaging pretty much putting himself to the brink of how much you can fight back and still beat Manny, picked the correct times to counter and so on. Second time around he was a bit more aggressive got dragged into more of a fight and was worn down and beaten though it is acceptable to say when the second fight came along he was beginning to show signs of sliding after being beaten decisively by Raheem and perhaps the Pacqiaou win was his last big performance pre-retirement.

Juan Manuel Marquez also has the style to counter pick attacks but much better than the other two, fact is he can make Manny think and slow him down, when he engages he is susceptible because he doesn't quite have the speed for an in and out strategy to beat him decisively, let's move to Floyd a man who is bigger, better, stronger, quicker more elusive more fundamentally sound and all around better at making opponents think and making the best of the thinking boxers have to think as to how to launch there attacks. In other words a complete and utter nightmare for Manny, there is no way Manny would ever beat Floyd, he's just too big, the length of his arms are too much he knows just how to control him and Manny would struggle even more than he did with JMM - Marco Antonio Barrera 2 - Morales 1 - with Floyd because Floyd can do everything but beter, I've been saying it for so long now. People think that he can get at him and he's a buzzsaw and all this, that doesn't matter if you dion't know how to get the attcks started, and that's precisely what will happen.

Watch Ortiz - Mayweather 3rd round, you will see an awful lot of what happens there happening in a Manny - Floyd fight. With Manny sitting off not really knowing how to launch the attacks and Floyd moving around controlling the pace and everything. Pure and simple the fact is, you make Manny think, you have a decent chance of winning, add that to all Floyds abilities and to me, it's just a no brainer.

He's not a buzzsaw any more Alex. He has been. But his buzzsaw is well and truly covered in rust now.

Don't buy your analysis of MAB-Manny2. Manny was dominating the fight and Barrera was pretty content to take things to time. It would be akin to saying that Mosley should the blueprint to beat Manny - in spite of losing comprehensively because he made Manny look bad.

Not sure I buy that argument too much.

However - fully agree re: Morales and JMM 1 2 and 3. JMM times Manny well - and were Manny-Floyd to fight tomorrow - Floyd times Manny just as well.

oxring wrote:He's not a buzzsaw any more Alex. He has been. But his buzzsaw is well and truly covered in rust now.

Don't buy your analysis of MAB-Manny2. Manny was dominating the fight and Barrera was pretty content to take things to time. It would be akin to saying that Mosley should the blueprint to beat Manny - in spite of losing comprehensively because he made Manny look bad.

Not sure I buy that argument too much.

However - fully agree re: Morales and JMM 1 2 and 3. JMM times Manny well - and were Manny-Floyd to fight tomorrow - Floyd times Manny just as well.

I'm with you on the buzzsaw comment, unfortunately he seems to have lost his spark.

During last night, despite how well Marquez was fighting, I still had the feeling that if Manny went for it and committed to a sustained attack then he would land enough to either put Marquez down or take the round away from him in a more convincing fashion.

However, he just didn't do it. He traded in bursts but there wasn't a sustained onslaught like we've seen against Hatton et al.

Now, that maybe because of his respect for Marquez, Marquez's tactics/skill, or, worryingly, it could be that he doesn't have the stamina to stay in the pocket and be that buzzsaw.

One point to consider reference Floyd though, is that Floyd doesn't throw as many punches as Marquez and will not trade as much.

Nah, I don't agree, Mosley and Clottey just shut up shop and didn't want to fight and Manny doesn't know how to open up defences which is why he didn't look like such a buzzsaw, Marg was a lot bigger than him and just kept on running at him which is hard to keep up for 12 rounds so he slowed plus it was a higher weight, he started off just as fast, even look against Cotto, he didn't do too much for the first minute of a round let Cotto take it then took it all away from him, Manny has rarely ever fought a 3 minute round at full pace, but Margs size made him, also he was carrying extra weight.

Mosley just wanted to survive and watch Nonito Donaire agaisnt Narvaez, if you're against someone good who knows how to survive and only wants to survive it's so difficult to look good against someone like that, plus they were quite pally and it seemed like there was no edge to the fight.

Going to Marquez again I had a feeling it would be very close however I thought Manny would take him out later on due to the weight and the power of Manny, but Marquez performed admirably and just did what Floyd would do to Manny apart from not as good or as decisively, what I've always thought.

TumblingDice wrote:

oxring wrote:He's not a buzzsaw any more Alex. He has been. But his buzzsaw is well and truly covered in rust now.

Don't buy your analysis of MAB-Manny2. Manny was dominating the fight and Barrera was pretty content to take things to time. It would be akin to saying that Mosley should the blueprint to beat Manny - in spite of losing comprehensively because he made Manny look bad.

Not sure I buy that argument too much.

However - fully agree re: Morales and JMM 1 2 and 3. JMM times Manny well - and were Manny-Floyd to fight tomorrow - Floyd times Manny just as well.

I'm with you on the buzzsaw comment, unfortunately he seems to have lost his spark.

During last night, despite how well Marquez was fighting, I still had the feeling that if Manny went for it and committed to a sustained attack then he would land enough to either put Marquez down or take the round away from him in a more convincing fashion.

However, he just didn't do it. He traded in bursts but there wasn't a sustained onslaught like we've seen against Hatton et al.

Now, that maybe because of his respect for Marquez, Marquez's tactics/skill, or, worryingly, it could be that he doesn't have the stamina to stay in the pocket and be that buzzsaw.

One point to consider reference Floyd though, is that Floyd doesn't throw as many punches as Marquez and will not trade as much.

It depends on who you're fighting however, he didn't like the counters coming back, fact is against Hatton he can get away with it because Hatton couldn't counter and was stationary with his head. You can look like a buzzsaw against certain fighters the fighters he's fought of recently just haven't ALLOWED him to look like a buzzsaw by not coming to fight or having the style to beat him. Cotto came forward to fight and then got beat doing that like anyone would around that weight against Manny, but then went into his shell and was pushed against the ropes, still tried at the beginning of the rounds, but Manny gave him the first minute of the round which made Cotto open up a bit more and then he unleashed his attacks and Cotto was open for the taking, was pushed against the ropes for large portions and beaten down.

He just can't look like a buzzsaw against someone who is using defense and countering.

I share your prediction of how I thought last night would go.

Also with you about Floyd, have said all along, I would cheer Manny on but do not see him winning that fight.

I think he'd struggle with Floyd's speed more than anything else and wouldn't be able to move out of the way of those razor sharp right hands. In my opinion, Floyd would go looking for the KO too.

As king khan says "Styles make fight" and manny doesn't have the style to beat mayweather. Manny struggles against thinking fighters, that much is true, and is open to the straight right counter, mayweathers money punch.

Morales, Barrera and JMM are all fighters that manged to expose manny (barrera obviously to a lesser extent but he still gave him problems that he couldn't quite get past) and although manny was never truley dominated, he was figured out by worse fighters. Mayweather doesn't well vs small boxers as he has a very long reach and can pick them off from afar. A tall rangy fighter is what is needed to beat floyd, hearns like.

Mayweather can always adjust while manny can't, he just becomes more reckless. The story on southpaws, its just judah who has done that to him. Prime judah was one of the fastest fighters ever and mayweather adapted to the situation to win clearly. ortiz was schooled by floyd and was open to the right hand like manny is. The hardest fights he has had were oscar at LMW and Castillo, both orthodox so the southpaw rumour is a myth imo

Found it strange that Khan thought Marquez had the style to beat Pacquiao but Mayweather wouldn't. Mayweather is able to do everything Marquez did last night. Yeah, it's taken the shine off, as a lot of people have said: while Pacquiao has improved, his opponents have flattered to deceive.

Scottrf wrote:Found it strange that Khan thought Marquez had the style to beat Pacquiao but Mayweather wouldn't. Mayweather is able to do everything Marquez did last night. Yeah, it's taken the shine off, as a lot of people have said: while Pacquiao has improved, his opponents have flattered to deceive.

Virtually what I wrote but much more less winded!!!

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:As king khan says "Styles make fight" and manny doesn't have the style to beat mayweather. Manny struggles against thinking fighters, that much is true, and is open to the straight right counter, mayweathers money punch.

Morales, Barrera and JMM are all fighters that manged to expose manny (barrera obviously to a lesser extent but he still gave him problems that he couldn't quite get past) and although manny was never truley dominated, he was figured out by worse fighters. Mayweather doesn't well vs small boxers as he has a very long reach and can pick them off from afar. A tall rangy fighter is what is needed to beat floyd, hearns like.

Mayweather can always adjust while manny can't, he just becomes more reckless. The story on southpaws, its just judah who has done that to him. Prime judah was one of the fastest fighters ever and mayweather adapted to the situation to win clearly. ortiz was schooled by floyd and was open to the right hand like manny is. The hardest fights he has had were oscar at LMW and Castillo, both orthodox so the southpaw rumour is a myth imo

I would also say with Mayweather being more aggressive he has made adjustments to make it so that he won't be outworked and the other person winning rounds on aggression which happened in both of those fights.

AlexHuckerby wrote:

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:As king khan says "Styles make fight" and manny doesn't have the style to beat mayweather. Manny struggles against thinking fighters, that much is true, and is open to the straight right counter, mayweathers money punch.

Morales, Barrera and JMM are all fighters that manged to expose manny (barrera obviously to a lesser extent but he still gave him problems that he couldn't quite get past) and although manny was never truley dominated, he was figured out by worse fighters. Mayweather doesn't well vs small boxers as he has a very long reach and can pick them off from afar. A tall rangy fighter is what is needed to beat floyd, hearns like.

Mayweather can always adjust while manny can't, he just becomes more reckless. The story on southpaws, its just judah who has done that to him. Prime judah was one of the fastest fighters ever and mayweather adapted to the situation to win clearly. ortiz was schooled by floyd and was open to the right hand like manny is. The hardest fights he has had were oscar at LMW and Castillo, both orthodox so the southpaw rumour is a myth imo

I would also say with Mayweather being more aggressive he has made adjustments to make it so that he won't be outworked and the other person winning rounds on aggression which happened in both of those fights.

Very true. I think he's more aggressive now as he has matured into a full welterweight and is big enough not to be bullied and overawed. Against mosley he was rocked by a big punch but got back into the fight and wasn't afraid to stand in range and load off on mosley. I also think he has become more aggressive though because his reflexes aren't what they used to be so has to make up for it. He has adjusted with age like Bhop has but pacquaio seems to be trying to do the same things but isn't as quick or explosive as he used to be

If it happens it will be exciting by fight night.....

Two great fighters and one of their legacies will take a hit....

Remember Hagler v Leonard we all thought Leonard was committing suicide but by fight night we were all up for it....

Mayweather will be ring rusty as no doubt he won't fight before accepting in the summer of next year...and..Manny has been to a certain extent exposed..

No foregone conclusion this one.....

Christ eubank junior is mayweather's only challenge out there

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:If it happens it will be exciting by fight night.....

Two great fighters and one of their legacies will take a hit....

Remember Hagler v Leonard we all thought Leonard was committing suicide but by fight night we were all up for it....

Mayweather will be ring rusty as no doubt he won't fight before accepting in the summer of next year...and..Manny has been to a certain extent exposed..

No foregone conclusion this one.....

You're right of course, but a couple of years ago it was almost seen as a 50/50 fight. Now I think 90% would favour Mayweather. So it's lost some of the shine.

Yeah but I suppose Marquez has Manny's number to a certain extent and Mayweather is a different fighter...Also believe Manny thought Marquez was finished and probably thought he'd have an easier night..

Chavez did struggle with Frankie Randall....

Always fancied a Floyd win anyway but it depends what Floyd turns up...can't keep having so much time off...

Hope he wins... the way Manny has been screwing guys over the last few years I'd like to see him preferably face down licking canvas..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Yeah but I suppose Marquez has Manny's number to a certain extent and Mayweather is a different fighter...Also believe Manny thought Marquez was finished and probably thought he'd have an easier night..

Chavez did struggle with Frankie Randall....

Always fancied a Floyd win anyway but it depends what Floyd turns up...can't keep having so much time off...

Hope he wins... the way Manny has been screwing guys over the last few years I'd like to see him preferably face down licking canvas..

Chavez was on the slide when he met Randall, how do you mean screwing guys over?

Think Mayweather win but I'd like Manny to absolute marmalise that potty mouthed racist berk, In fact I'd be cheering Peter Sutcliffe over Mayweather if they fought, I think that little of his vile antics.

Manny v Mayweather, Khan v Marquez, winners meet! Wouldn't be such a bad thing

I'd be cheering Peter sutcliffe...

Kind of say's a lot about you..

Randall was a huge upset......

Well you're cheering for a criminal and a racist just because he was born in a certain country says a lot about you.

It was a upset but Chavez was on the slide, he never had another great performance in him after that.

Anyway don't want to disagree with you too much I know you take things to heart and take it personally all big opinion but no backbone in debate.

No offence

So a guy who rapes and murders women is more endearing than a guy who say's some silly things now and again..

Mate I don't particularly like Mayweather and I'm sick of you telling me what I'm thinking all the time...

I do support Americans and If I love my Country.....well that's a cross I have to bear..

Now run along..

It was a joke big fella !

I'll run along Truss, just incase you throw a smiley at me or call me a dumbass!

I love your contradictions.

No offence mate

"I love your contradictions......"

Wouldn't know I never make any....

But do run along..

Pacman is over the hill because he performed badley against Marquez.

Has he EVER fought well against Marquez?

personally I don't think this has much bearing on Manny V Mayweather as Marquez is totally different from Mayweather.

Marquez is more of a thiker and less of an athlete. He move around the ring in more concise way, he was caught on the ropes for about a second or two throughout the whole fight. Ortiz managed to hustle Floyd on the ropes.

Marquez is a more solid fundamentalist in my opinion and far more rugged. Saying Marquez and Mayweather are counter punchers, and Mayweather's better, thus Mayweather beats Manny is flawed. Mayweather and Marquez are different.

A fight between Mayweather and Paquaio ought to have been made after Pacman's fight with Miguel Cotto. That was the window when the fight would have had the most signifiance (from both a financial and boxing perspective).

Ego's on both sides prevented that from happening.

Since then, Mayweather has been inactive but looked impressive during his comeback fights.
Paquaio's stock has steadily declined though and has now reached a new low with yesterday's fight.

While some of Paquaio's apologists claim that the fight simply indicates he's fading with age, I can't say that I agree with them.
After all, he struggled with Marquez twice before when he was younger and surely its the Mexican who has since looked the more beatable.

Personally, I just think Paquaio is, and always has been, a bit of a one trick pony. A great offensive fighter that can be timed and countered by an astute and skilled operator.
Not to say he isnt a great fighter of this era, its more a case that he certainly isnt anywear near the Superman he was hyped up as being.

I always thought Paquaio would have a good chance against Mayweather (50-50 fight) because I felt he could get the decision based on a non-stop workrate as opposed to cleaner punching (a la Calzaghe-Hopkins), now I'd have to strongly favour Mayweather (90-10) fight.

However, after yesterday's farce, a Mayweather victory over Paquaio will not even add much to his legacy as it once would have.

I wouldnt be suprised if Mayweather aims towards Khan instead.

Pretty much agree with all of that, Benson.

Manny is a great fighter, but the only tests he has had since his rise through the weights have been physical ones. Marquez is the first real slick operator he has faced at 135 and above and he lost clearly.

Good fighter, but will always lose against fighters who dont walk in straight lines.

ian_jamsie wrote:Pacman is over the hill because he performed badley against Marquez.

Has he EVER fought well against Marquez?

No, but he's probably fought BETTER against Marquez.

Not sure that anyone can say Manny looked as good against Mosley/Margarito as he did against Clottey/Cotto/Hatton. Looks like he's clearly lost a step of pace to me. And yes - whilst it has always been possible to time him on the way in - he used to do more when he got there.

"Good fighter, but will always lose against fighters who dont walk in straight lines.."
Apart from Barrera and Morales and Marquez (no way he lost all three) and lots and lots of others. Massive over reaction in Manny struggling with someone who performed better than we expected. I can't remember public opinion jumping up and down so erratically based on one performence.

John Bloody Wayne wrote:"Good fighter, but will always lose against fighters who dont walk in straight lines.."
Apart from Barrera and Morales and Marquez (no way he lost all three) and lots and lots of others. Massive over reaction in Manny struggling with someone who performed better than we expected. I can't remember public opinion jumping up and down so erratically based on one performence.

Haye-Wladimir.

I wouldn't say public opinion has shifted that much on Pacquiao. The Mosley underperformance was explained for the same reason, he prefers someone to come at him.