Wlad's "injury"

With Wlad pulling out of the Chisora fight as his abdominal injuy hasn't healed sufficiently, will the critics give him the same grief that was heaped on David Haye when he pulled out with a back injury? I fail to see the difference in the two scenario's to be honest. Both were done for purely financial reasons and no amount of dressing up can convince any sane person otherwise.

Anyone with even the slightest objectivity can see that Wlad's camp have surely now realised the Chisora fight doesn't enhance WK's reputation. They've seen the negativity surrounding Haye's defence against Audley(however financially lucrative it may have been) and therefore this 'injury' is simply the best form of damage limitation. However, I'm yet to see/read any comments aimed at Wlad which use the word "coward" or "ducker" and yet these same accusations were levelled at Haye when Setanta went down the drain forcing them to come up with the back injury excuse.

Even as an unashamed Haye fan/apologist, I'm fully aware that his back injury was a fake but that admitting as much left Haye wide open to legal action, however now Wlad had done the same thing, people seem to be giving creedance to this story.

All that aside, I really don't care if Wlad says his horoscope isn't favourable at the time of the Chisora fight, I'm just pleased commonsense has finally prevailed. I'm not even too concerned about the proposal that Vitali steps in should Wlad's 'injury' not heal in time as I believe that A/ It' simply a means of trying to drum up interest in a fight that doesn't really need any extra hype and B/ Haye has the beating of either brother anyway (although I'll admit I feel that Vitali is a tougher prospect that Wlad).

Anyway, let's hope that the likes of Boente don't decide to throw a spanner in the works as, let's face it, I wouldn't trust that guy as far as I could throw him.

Reasonable argument except that:

Haye stepped aside from Wlad, didn't re-arrange and fought Valuev.

Wlad has paid Chisora to step aside to face - Haye. Wlad has found a stiffer challenge, Haye got injured to fight a weaker opponent.

If the fight doesn't go ahead now both should be taken to the Gallows and made to plea their innocense before someone gets the chop.

I feel a bit for Chisora, he should never have been there in the first place but came so close twice, to his shot at the titles.

I feel both fighters need to be made to attend a press confrence and be grilled on certain aspects of the fight, it will make it harder for them to make excuses then.

As Haye didn't hold a title and therefore had no bargaining chip, it was obvious why he didn't re-arrange.

Whilst Valuev may not have been the best HW around, the sheer size of the man and the fact he's never been wobbled or floored, made facing him as tough, if not tougher a prospect that a fight with "Mr Susceptible to a decent punch". This would also be the same 'weak' Valuev that the K's have had no interest in fighting for years.

Taking the Valuev fight was a smart move as Haye knew the K's wanted to hold all the belts at HW and therefore, he's be in a stronger position when it came to negotiating terms for a unification fight. Messing both Wlad and Vitali about before signing for Valuev instead as also a smart move as it annoyed them sufficiently for them to still want to fight him.

My point is not the merits of the Valuev decision - its just showing the Chisora "step aside" was slightly different for Wlad - as his calibre of opponent has been significantly improved by his decision.

And I'm not disputing the increased calibre of opposition, I'm questioning why Wad seems to be getting a pass for an "injury" that's clearly been created as a convenient excuse to pull out of a less lucrative fight.

DAVE667 wrote:And I'm not disputing the increased calibre of opposition, I'm questioning why Wad seems to be getting a pass for an "injury" that's clearly been created as a convenient excuse to pull out of a less lucrative fight.

But that's just it! You said it yourself!

Wlad is getting a pass for an "injury" that gets him out of the LESS lucrative fight.

Haye doesn't get a pass for an "injury" that pulled him out of a MORE lucrative fight.

Haye doesn't get a pass for an "injury" that pulled him out of a MORE lucrative fight.

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Not really, as the terms for the fight with Wlad were apparently pretty grim. Numerous rematches with big bad Vitali were certainly worse than rematches with Big Nicolai.

The Valuev fight arguably netted Haye as much, if not not more, money and gave him a stronger bargaining position.

DAVE667: Evan as an unashamed Haye fan/apologist, I'm fully aware that his back injury was a fake but that admitting as much left Haye wide open to legal action, however now Wlad had done the same thing, people seem to be giving creedance to this story.
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I don't give any credence to wlads story. The fact is the chisora fight was just not selling tickets in Germany. It was a dead duck and wlad decides to cut his losses and go straight to the big earning haye fight instead. Tough on chisora, but who gives a toss about him. The injury talk is BS, but else is wlad expected to say? He's not ducking chisora, but he is lying about the injury. But the fight we all wanted is on so let's just say a little White lie has done the power of good this time.

Theres a big difference. Wlad pulled the plug on a nothing fight that was intended to be a warm up in order to make a big fight happen.

Haye pulled out out of a big fight and took an easier option.

Seriously, it was a mistake by Wlad to ever bother with the Chisora fight but people are using it now as a reason to claim whatever they want about Wlad.

Are we really comparing Haye pulling out of a world title fight with the number 1 heavy, and then abandoning the fight altogether to Wlad pulling out of a routine defence against a guy that barely deserved a shot in order to ensure the biggest heavyweight fight in a decade goes ahead?

Wlad thought that once most of the deal was set in place that Haye would have to accept him taking on a tune up and didnt bank on him pulling out of the fight. When Haye did he tried to force him to accept it b keeping July open. Once it became clear Haye was going to stick to his guns and go ahead with someone else in May, Wlad was forced to cancel Chisora and pacify Haye.

The only similarities in the situation is they are using injury as an excuse. Everythng else is worlds apart.

manos de piedra wrote:Theres a big difference. Wlad pulled the plug on a nothing fight that was intended to be a warm up in order to make a big fight happen.

Haye pulled out out of a big fight and took an easier option.

Are we really comparing Haye pulling out of a world title fight with the number 1 heavy, and then abandoning the fight altogether to Wlad pulling out of a routine defence against a guy that barely deserved a shot in order to ensure the biggest heavyweight fight in a decade goes ahead?

Yes Manos - we do seem to be comparing Haye pulling out of a world title fight against the no 1 heavy, to Wlad pulling out of a fight with a journeyman to make the biggest HW fight since Lewis-Tyson.

I'm glad you noticed this - I was beginning to doubt my sanity.

I think what Dave is getting at is that the reasons are financial. the double standard being that Haye is roundly castigated for pulling out of a fight that he was, in all likelihood, not going to be paid for. These same people who for some bizarre, and frankly unrealsitic reason relating to professional pride, or the joy of competition, genuinely thought Haye should have fought Wlad for no purse at all, are now quite content to give Wladimir a free pass for pulling out of a fight for similar reasons.

I can see the differences between the 2 scenarios, but either haye is justified in backing out of a highly risky fight he was unlikely to be paid for, or Wladimir is equally guilty, and should be treated the same as Haye was, for pulling out of a low risk fught in which he would still receive a decent purse...

Personally, I feel both reasons are valid. It was always utterly ridiculous for people to actually expect Haye to fight for nothing in the first place.

Gentleman01 wrote:I think what Dave is getting at is that the reasons are financial. the double standard being that Haye is roundly castigated for pulling out of a fight that he was, in all likelihood, not going to be paid for. These same people who for some bizarre, and frankly unrealsitic reason relating to professional pride, or the joy of competition, genuinely thought Haye should have fought Wlad for no purse at all, are now quite content to give Wladimir a free pass for pulling out of a fight for similar reasons.

I can see the differences between the 2 scenarios, but either haye is justified in backing out of a highly risky fight he was unlikely to be paid for, or Wladimir is equally guilty, and should be treated the same as Haye was, for pulling out of a low risk fught in which he would still receive a decent purse...

Personally, I feel both reasons are valid. It was always utterly ridiculous for people to actually expect Haye to fight for nothing in the first place.

My issue was more that he pulled out, setanta then duly folded in a week, and he didn't make a viable alternative - which is why he is castigated for the Wlad pullout. Rightly IMO.

Who cares though. The fight is on now at long last!

Wlad pulling out of the Chisora fight is a bit lame, but it is for the greater good of boxing. I can't say the same thing about Haye pulling out of the Wlad fight and not rescheduling for 2 years whilst fighting AUDLEY HARRISON in the meantime.

oxring wrote:

Gentleman01 wrote:I think what Dave is getting at is that the reasons are financial. the double standard being that Haye is roundly castigated for pulling out of a fight that he was, in all likelihood, not going to be paid for. These same people who for some bizarre, and frankly unrealsitic reason relating to professional pride, or the joy of competition, genuinely thought Haye should have fought Wlad for no purse at all, are now quite content to give Wladimir a free pass for pulling out of a fight for similar reasons.

I can see the differences between the 2 scenarios, but either haye is justified in backing out of a highly risky fight he was unlikely to be paid for, or Wladimir is equally guilty, and should be treated the same as Haye was, for pulling out of a low risk fught in which he would still receive a decent purse...

Personally, I feel both reasons are valid. It was always utterly ridiculous for people to actually expect Haye to fight for nothing in the first place.

My issue was more that he pulled out, setanta then duly folded in a week, and he didn't make a viable alternative - which is why he is castigated for the Wlad pullout. Rightly IMO.

Who cares though. The fight is on now at long last!

Well, it is the same principle, Wlad has choosen a more lucrative fight for himself, and cancelled Chisora. Haye chose to fight Valuev as it made him more money.

However, I really don't see why it is solely Haye's fault that a fight with either Klitschko wasn't immediately re-negotiated. If the fight didn't come off back in 2009/2010 then surely some of the blame for that lies woth the Klitschko's?? It takes 2 people to negotiate a fight, and many, many people, not just Haye have failed to make a fight happen with the K's due to the paltry offers they make. Valuev and Mormeck have both recently turned down offers to fight them because they considered the terms to be insulting. Frank Warren is on record a number of months ago stating that the original purse offer is so poor he would have rejected it were it not for Chisora's pleas that he wanted this opportunity and wasn't concerned about the purse. The fault for this fight not being re-negotiated immediately after haye's justified pull-out does not lie solely with Haye himself

Wlad's "injury"

I believed it was diagnosed by Dr. Ironfist

Ah yes - but the K-bros didn't sign for a fight, pull out and fail to renegotiate, then re-enter negotiations only to pull out once the final contract was negotiated and then to finally fight AUDLEY HARRISON instead.

Basically - Haye has fought Barrett-Valuev-Ruiz-Harrison

In the same timeframe - Wlad has fought Rahman-Chagaev-Chambers-Peter.

Which sums up why Haye is criticised for pulling out of Wlad1 - he didn't fight the top competition afterwards...

Seriously guys - AUDLEY HARRISON. Why has everyone forgiven Haye for that debacle?

Thanks for the support gentleman01 as I was beginning to doubt MY sanity also.

Oxring I'm fully aware the scenarios are different to a degree but the fact remains, Wlad is using a fake injury to get out of the Chisora fight and people seem to think this excuse is acceptable whereas Haye's wasn't and, as Gentleman01 states, Wlad would still have rec'd a sizeable purse for his defence against Chisora for, what most consider to be, an easy night's work.

oxring wrote:Ah yes - but the K-bros didn't sign for a fight, pull out and fail to renegotiate, then re-enter negotiations only to pull out once the final contract was negotiated and then to finally fight AUDLEY HARRISON instead.

Basically - Haye has fought Barrett-Valuev-Ruiz-Harrison

In the same timeframe - Wlad has fought Rahman-Chagaev-Chambers-Peter.

Which sums up why Haye is criticised for pulling out of Wlad1 - he didn't fight the top competition afterwards...

Haye has been the biggest challenge out there for the Klitschkos for about 18 months. Therefore, both brothers are equally as guilty as Haye of not facing the best competition available, if you actually think that Chambers and Peter are better, more threatening options than Haye then feel free to disagree.... I am surprised so many people are prepared to overlook the Klitschko's obvious role in the failure of this fight not being re-negotiated earlier than it has been.

Seriously guys - AUDLEY HARRISON. Why has everyone forgiven Haye for that debacle?
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Have they? Most people see that fight for what it was, namely, Haye showing Wlad just how much money there was to be made by fighting him. Haye essentially proved that a nothing fight like Audley would net plenty of money and was showing Wlad that a fight between the two of them would make them even more money.

Most boxing fans agreed that whilst that fight was a debacle, Haye had always said it would be a massacre and the ones getting angry are clearly the nimrods who thought Audley stood a chance of winning. However, most boxing fans (me included) said that Haye really would have to fight one of the K Bros in his next fight otherwise his credibility would be utterly worthless as he couldn't afford another no-mark on his record.

Thankfully, the fight we all want, seems to be happening but given the egos on display, it wouldn't surprise me if there are a few more twists and turns along the way.

Gentleman01 wrote:

oxring wrote:Ah yes - but the K-bros didn't sign for a fight, pull out and fail to renegotiate, then re-enter negotiations only to pull out once the final contract was negotiated and then to finally fight AUDLEY HARRISON instead.

Basically - Haye has fought Barrett-Valuev-Ruiz-Harrison

In the same timeframe - Wlad has fought Rahman-Chagaev-Chambers-Peter.

Which sums up why Haye is criticised for pulling out of Wlad1 - he didn't fight the top competition afterwards...

Haye has been the biggest challenge out there for the Klitschkos for about 18 months. Therefore, both brothers are equally as guilty as Haye of not facing the best competition available, if you actually think that Chambers and Peter are better, more threatening options than Haye then feel free to disagree.... I am surprised so many people are prepared to overlook the Klitschko's obvious role in the failure of this fight not being re-negotiated earlier than it has been.

NO - Chambers and Peter are bigger, more threatening options than Ruiz and Harrison.

Basically - since moving up, Haye has talked a lot, but until now he hasn't backed that up with meaningful fights. That's my point.

If the Klitschko's were so difficult to negotiate with, I'd have thought he could at least manage to arrange a Povetkin/Solis/Boytsev/Dimitrenko/Chambers/Arreola/Peter...

Dave, I'm almost afraid to ask, and I'm sorry to side track, but anything new on the job front ?

DAVE667 wrote:Seriously guys - AUDLEY HARRISON. Why has everyone forgiven Haye for that debacle?
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Have they? Most people see that fight for what it was, namely, Haye showing Wlad just how much money there was to be made by fighting him. Haye essentially proved that a nothing fight like Audley would net plenty of money and was showing Wlad that a fight between the two of them would make them even more money.

Most boxing fans agreed that whilst that fight was a debacle, Haye had always said it would be a massacre and the ones getting angry are clearly the nimrods who thought Audley stood a chance of winning. However, most boxing fans (me included) said that Haye really would have to fight one of the K Bros in his next fight otherwise his credibility would be utterly worthless as he couldn't afford another no-mark on his record.

Thankfully, the fight we all want, seems to be happening but given the egos on display, it wouldn't surprise me if there are a few more twists and turns along the way.

It's also worth pointing out that Haye actually only took the Harrsion fight as the Klitschko fight couldn't be made. Naturally this was entirely and 100% David Haye's fault mind... I'm sure the K's offered him 70/30 split and choice of venue...

If Haye is prepared to, reportedly, accept a 50/50 split now, then it follows that he was not offered that deal in the summer.

DAVE667 wrote:Seriously guys - AUDLEY HARRISON. Why has everyone forgiven Haye for that debacle?
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Have they? Most people see that fight for what it was, namely, Haye showing Wlad just how much money there was to be made by fighting him.

Thankfully, the fight we all want, seems to be happening but given the egos on display, it wouldn't surprise me if there are a few more twists and turns along the way.

That's a pretty generous interpretation matey. Globally the fight seemed a bit of a no-mark TBH. It made a nice amount of money domestically for very little risk - I assumed that was it. Give a payday to an old friend and make a large wodge of money whilst not getting hit in the process.

If the Klitschko's were so difficult to negotiate with, I'd have thought he could at least manage to arrange a Povetkin/Solis/Boytsev/Dimitrenko/Chambers/Arreola/Peter....

Why would he do that when he will get paid far less money for a much, much tougher fight? that makes no sense.

I'm not interested in comparing opponents. If you're argument is Haye has ducked the biggest challenges, but the K's haven't, then what you are saying is that you don't think Haye is a bigger challenge than the fights Wladimir has taken, namely, Chambers and Peter... Like I said, if that's what you think then fair enough, but I don't agree with you.

Gentleman01 wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:Seriously guys - AUDLEY HARRISON. Why has everyone forgiven Haye for that debacle?
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Have they? Most people see that fight for what it was, namely, Haye showing Wlad just how much money there was to be made by fighting him. Haye essentially proved that a nothing fight like Audley would net plenty of money and was showing Wlad that a fight between the two of them would make them even more money.

Most boxing fans agreed that whilst that fight was a debacle, Haye had always said it would be a massacre and the ones getting angry are clearly the nimrods who thought Audley stood a chance of winning. However, most boxing fans (me included) said that Haye really would have to fight one of the K Bros in his next fight otherwise his credibility would be utterly worthless as he couldn't afford another no-mark on his record.

Thankfully, the fight we all want, seems to be happening but given the egos on display, it wouldn't surprise me if there are a few more twists and turns along the way.

It's also worth pointing out that Haye actually only took the Harrsion fight as the Klitschko fight couldn't be made. Naturally this was entirely and 100% David Haye's fault mind... I'm sure the K's offered him 70/30 split and choice of venue...

If Haye is prepared to, reportedly, accept a 50/50 split now, then it follows that he was not offered that deal in the summer.

Now that's just plain wrong. The deal he was offered was 50/50 - he took Harrison first. And you're missing the point - it is ok to take a different opponent as the Klitschko fight "couldn't be made" - but why fight Audley as opposed to a meaningful opponent (what Haye's HW career lacks)?

Anyway - Boente claims that the offer was 50/50. Crucially - Haye hasn't denied this. As such - I'm inclined to believe Boente.

Dave, I'm almost afraid to ask, and I'm sorry to side track, but anything new on the job front ?

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They say "No News is good news" but I'm not so sure. Management are adamant that they want to cut costs but it seems they're unsure as to whether or not they want to cut salaries or staff numbers. Because of the nature of my job, they can't cut my salary without redefining my job description/role profile which would take time and that's something they can't afford but, given employment law, is a road they would have to go down.

My office make up 12.5% of West Yorkshire's total staff for this particular department but we do 25% of the work so it's clear that reducing our staff number will have a significant imapct on the amount of work done.

I'm bracing myself for the worst but remain blindly/foolishly optimistic!


OXRING WROTE - That's a pretty generous interpretation matey. Globally the fight seemed a bit of a no-mark TBH. It made a nice amount of money domestically for very little risk
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That's my point, if what amounts to a domestic sparring seession can generate several million quid then why couldn't Wlad and his team see how much there's to be made when arguably two or the top three HW's face off.

DAVE667 wrote:I'm bracing myself for the worst but remain blindly/foolishly optimistic!

Fingers crossed for you, mate.

And you're missing the point - it is ok to take a different opponent as the Klitschko fight "couldn't be made" - but why fight Audley as opposed to a meaningful opponent (what Haye's HW career lacks)?

Why fight Audley? I thought that was obvious? For the money. Why risk a huge super-fight with either K in order to fight Boystev for peanuts, when you can make millions, and keep the possibility of a massive unification showdown alive by crushing Audley inside 3?

You're arguments never add up, you seem to think that Haye has failed to face the best competition but the Klitschko's haven't?? It is solely Haye's fault a fight wasn't negotiated sooner?? You're basing this on things stated by Boente?? I guess he is an impartial 3rd party afterall...

The fault lies with both parties, Wladimir is as culpable as Haye is in this whole mess

Cheers Windy, I'm hoping it all works out as I fear I'm too old for a paper round, too young to retire, too poor to be a Sugar Daddy and too ugly to be a Toy Boy.

Haye is the primary reason the fight has been delayed. Thats obvious. Whether or not you blame him for it is another matter.

I dont blame him for dropping the first fight when Setanta went bust. But he blatantly decided to opt for Valuev over the Klitschkos afterwards and used a "slave contract" argument as excuse. Despite the fact it was the same contract more or less as offered before and his fight with Valuev entailed similar stipulations such as rematch clauses and options.

He won the belt and had to face RUiz, no argument about that as it was a mandatory. However afterwards the Klitschkos put a 50/50 ofer down which Haye has admitted as much. Haye didnt fancy it then as he had a title and wanted some mileage out of it. He basically had his sights on Audley as a cash cow and went missing for about 4 months of the Summer when the Klitschkos had no opponents and were calling him out. He arrived back about a week after the Klitschkos were both tied up again and cited more excuses as reasons to fight Audley.

After Audley I think he began to seriously again cnsider the Klitschkos - hence another round of negotiations and the cancelling of the first Chisora fight. A deal looked set and this time Wlad pushed the boat out to far by trying to sneak in the Chisora fight as a tune up. Haye was having none of it. Wlad thought Haye would give in. Haye didnt. So Wlad has had to cancel the Chisora fight again in order to to make the Haye fight happen.

I dont think either camp has been ducking. There was a definate year long period post Ruiz though where Haye blatantly wanted a soft defence against Audley before risking the Klitschkos and as such wasnt entertaining a unification fight when the Klitschkos did want it.

Ultimately, I think its been more or less shown that any differences were ones of timing rather than genuine fear or ducking. Hayes route took longer and was perhaps less explosive than I had hoped but it was ultimately far more financially lucrative for him and much less risky.

As long as the fight in July goes ahead I wont have any complaints.

To my mind the reasons that this fight has taken so long to come to fruition are not solely the result of David Haye's ducking, or a result of him being willfully obdurate, but rather a case of him seeking to strengthen his own hand, and subsequently maximising his earnings.

The 'slave' contract claim, IMO seems not too far from the truth. Whilst the language used looks to exaggerate, or dramatise the terms, I do suspect that the original offer made by the K’s to fight either Wlad or Vit was overtly onerous and draconian. There is little doubt in my mind that the terms for the Valuev fight were much more favourable to Haye, which is why he pulled out and chose to fight him instead.

As this fight, scheduled for June/July, is reportedly a one fight deal, with no stipulations for rematches, then perhaps that was a stumbling block that has been removed, but I don’t subscribe to the idea that Haye actually preferred the Audley fight to one with Wladimir.

Either way, I am happy to see it’s been organised with all parties seemingly happy with the terms. I do just wonder why some people feel that the solitary reason for it taking so long was Haye’s reluctance to actually fight.

I can see Daves point on this in both Wlad and Haye pulling out of fights for financial reasons.

Was it not a case for Haye that with Setanta going down the tube he faced the prospect of fighting Wlad and not getting paid? Not really a prospect I'd expect any boxer to take in a fight he could well lose.

As for Wlad's injury it's pure fiction. Simply pulling out of the Chisora fight for a bigger payday against Haye.

A bit underhanded but good for the HW division in the long run.

I do wish Haye would face Vitali first though as I see him as the least dangerous of the 2 brothers with father time definatley agains him.

Wlad seems to have come on leaps and bounds since the Sanders and Brewster losses.

I agree at this stage Wlad is the more formidable of the pair.

Gentleman01 wrote:To my mind the reasons that this fight has taken so long to come to fruition are not solely the result of David Haye's ducking, or a result of him being willfully obdurate, but rather a case of him seeking to strengthen his own hand, and subsequently maximising his earnings.

The 'slave' contract claim, IMO seems not too far from the truth. Whilst the language used looks to exaggerate, or dramatise the terms, I do suspect that the original offer made by the K’s to fight either Wlad or Vit was overtly onerous and draconian. There is little doubt in my mind that the terms for the Valuev fight were much more favourable to Haye, which is why he pulled out and chose to fight him instead.

As this fight, scheduled for June/July, is reportedly a one fight deal, with no stipulations for rematches, then perhaps that was a stumbling block that has been removed, but I don’t subscribe to the idea that Haye actually preferred the Audley fight to one with Wladimir.

Either way, I am happy to see it’s been organised with all parties seemingly happy with the terms. I do just wonder why some people feel that the solitary reason for it taking so long was Haye’s reluctance to actually fight.

It was Hayes reluctance because he wanted to make money out of the sport. The longer he could postpone a unification fight then the more money he could make in the meantime. Hayes HW career isnt really hard to read. Hes gone for the easy option each time. His overall intention was to fight the Klitschkos and then probaly retire but until then his perogative, like most boxers was to make money. Once he got the opportunity to fight Valuev in a much more winnable fight and enjoy the leverage and money of having a world title then he wasnt in a rush to put it on the line immediately.

One way or another hes got to where everyone wanted and has done so exposing himself to as little risk possible while making good money. But if you are talking about could the fight have been made sooner then it could have if Haye wanted. He opted for Valuev 2 years ago and opted for Audley last year instead when there were Klitschko deals on the table.

Hes strengthened his hand by doing so and made money but the reason the fight is happening now rather than last year or the year before is more down to Haye than down to Wlad. Largely because Wlad didnt need to consolidate his position whereas Haye did.

Pre Valuev, when Haye was not a champion he was offered the deal with the rematch clauses, options etc

Post Valuev he was offered 50/50 - which he says himself was true. The finer points like venue etc had not been agreed but the pinciple split was to put all revenues into one pot and split it 50/50.

At the time he realised he could make much easier money facing Harrison and opted for that instead. Now with both the publics attitude wearing thin and a shortage of credible easy money fights Haye has decided its time for the Klitschkos and to risk it all. But between Valuev and now, Haye I dont think particularly wanted the fight and was more intent on securing finance first. I think he always intended the Klitschko fights to happen, but just at a time that suited him once he was happy he had made enough money and had a strong bargaining position.

Is this argument not splitting hairs to some degree? Both Haye and Wlad have pulled out of fights because of apparent false claims about injuries. Wlad has now felt the need to do this twice. Not sure why after the first fiasco he bothered arranging a second match up with Chisora at all. Is Adamak still to fight Wlad in September? He should have assessed his financial situation at the start of the year. It does seem as though the fight with Chisora in April was a bad idea.

Also, I'm not so sure that Chisora wasn't a risk worth taking. Out of Chagaev, Rahman, Peter and Chambers, I would't say many were live fighters. On paper comfortable enough wins. Chisora was to much of an unknown quantity and a risk. As I remember after Haye's injury, Wlad had already arranged a fight elsewhere before Haye signed with Value. Who was still a reigning heavyweight champ. Haye's injury was only supposed to be a 3 week delay. There have been enough shenanigans on both sides, time to get the fight officially signed. If not then Haye should take on Vitali instead.

manos de piedra wrote:


At the time he realised he could make much easier money facing Harrison and opted for that instead. Now with both the publics attitude wearing thin and a shortage of credible easy money fights Haye has decided its time for the Klitschkos and to risk it all. But between Valuev and now, Haye I dont think particularly wanted the fight and was more intent on securing finance first. I think he always intended the Klitschko fights to happen, but just at a time that suited him once he was happy he had made enough money and had a strong bargaining position.

I think this is pretty much spot on. While I don't begrudge any boxer wanting to make good their future financial standing, it is quite apparent that what Manos has said is what's happened, particularly with reference to Haye never wanting for the fight to never happen, simply that he didn't want it to happen until he was ready for it to happen.