5 Star Rated Matches....

Ok so Dave Meltzer has given five WWE matches over the years his seal of approval with the coveted 5 star rating:

Shawn Michaels v Razor Ramon at Wrestlemania 10
Bret Hart v Owen Hart at Summerslam 94
Bret Hart v Stone Cold Steve Austin at Wrestlemania 13
Shawn Michaels v The Undertaker at Badd Blood
John Cena v CM Punk at Money In The Bank

Now for me, personally, i'd only give 2 of these matches a 5 star rating - Bret v Austin and Cena v Punk. Dont get me wrong HBK v Razor and HBK v Taker were very very good matches but in my book i dont think they justified a 5 star rating. Bret v Owen i wasnt a huge fan of their fued so i'll pass judgement on that to save the hassle of trying to justify my opinion.

So what i want to know is, being as critical as you can and without being too generous, what matches would you give a 5 star rating to? You can go back past the inception of Meltzer's rating system. I'd go with:

Bret v Austin at Mania 13
Cena v Punk at MITB
Savage v Warrior at Mania 7
Shawn Michaels v The Undertaker Mania 25

Thats it for me, just 4. There are plenty of matches which id give 4.5/5 but im not going to be over generous. I've taken into account how well the fueds were booked and the backstory, the historical significance, the standard of commentary and storytelling ability in the matches. Its easy to throw around 5 star ratings without properly thinking about it which is why alot of the very good matches i thought of just fell short because they didnt fully go off the scale in every part of my criteria, so try not to be too slap dash with your decisions.

Over to you....

Bulldog vs Hitman Summerslam 92. Was there, great atmosphere.

The TLC match where E&C won the tag belts against The Hardy's and the Dudley's.

I agree with Bulldog v Hitman in 92 (I was there too! It was immense)

I would also like to add Steamboat v Savage at WM III

John Morrison, Trish Stratus and Snooki vs Dolph Ziggler and Laycool at Wrestlemania 28...

Shawn Michaels vs Kurt Angle at Wrestlemania

The feud going into it was good and the match was brilliant from 2 of the atg's

Great thread Mr H....

Austin vs Bret Hart WM13 is the greatest match in wrestling history for me.

Bulldog vs Bret Hart Summerslam 1992

Shawn Michaels vs Marty Jannetty Raw 1993

Ultimate Warrior vs Randy Savage WM 7

Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker Hell in a cell Badd Blood 97

CM Punk vs John Cena MITB

I consider Hart Austin the best because both men were in their prime.... Austin hadn't yet suffered his career threatening neck injury & Bret Hart was the best performer in the World at the time. Such an amazing story both men didnt miss a beat, it was the culmination of a well paced fued that began at Survivor Series & developed further at the Royal Rumble. Technically it was superb. The double turn is the one & only time I've seen this pulled off in a national promotion. It was the culmination of the well thought out Hart heel turn & catipulated Austin to superstardom. Bret cowardly attacks Austins leg after the match as Austin lies motionless in a pool of his own blood after refusing to quit. I think most people have forgot that Ken Shamrock was the special referee

I agree with most of Meltzer's picks although Steamboat/Savage and Warrior/Savage probably deserve 5*. I would have the Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar Iron Man Match on SmackDown! in there as well. The only thing that really hurt it at the time was the taped airing and being split by adverts. It has since been released on DVD in it's entirity though.

I wouldn't have Punk and Cena as 5*. It was probably one of Cena's best matches, although there were still sloppy moments here and there.

Hogan vs Warrior WM6
Warrior vs Savage WM7
Bret Hart vs British Bulldog SummerSlam92
Bret Hart vs Owen Hart SummerSlam 94
Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon SummerSlam 95
Bret Hart vs Steve Austin WM13
Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker Badd Blood 97
Triple H vs Cactus Jack Royal Rumble 2000
Shawn Michaels vs HHH SummerSlam 02
Edge vs Undertaker TLC Match Extreme Rules 08
Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker II WM26
John Cena vs CM Punk Money In The Bank 2011

Wow. An easy man to please gaffer tape.

For me every single one of those are genuine contenders because they for me delivered on every aspect and stand the test of time

Surely Angle vs Lesnar in an Iron Man should be up there. One of my favourites.

Punk vs Cena was a great match, but not a five star match by any meens, maybe its simply because it was the best match this year but it doesn't match up with the others that have been mentioned.

Punk v Cena gets the 5 star from me because of everything that happened from the moment Punk cut his promo to the moment he blew a kiss goodbye to Vince McMahon. The backstory was superb, the venue, the atmosphere, the entrance, the match, hell even Punk's new tshirt. It had everything.

I think i need to watch Bulldog v Bret again. Its been a few years since ive seen it so perhaps a wiser head might think differently about whether it warranted 5 stars.

Gaffer, do you rate HBK v Taker II higher than the match at Mania 25?

So how are we rating these matches then? Purely the bell to bell match or the whole storyline involved and the build up and aftermath included? Because that makes a big difference.

Yeah I preferred the second WM match between the two for the whole story that went into it.

Shawn 'losing his cool' when he accepted the slammy for their MotY, then his relentless quest to get Taker to give him the re-match, his breakdown after failing at The Rumble until he cost Undertaker the WHC at Elimination Chamber, Taker then making Shawn put his career on the line for the re-match that was a year in waiting, also, there was massive pressure to deliver considering how well their WM25 went, also the fact it went ln as the legit Main Event also made it that bit more special too me

Gaffer I have to agree with you on this one, especially considering the match between HHH and Taker a year later when it became apparent just how little Taker can manage now. It highlighted for me just how little he can manage to do in the ring now and it is one of those rare occasions when I actually thought the streak would be broken.

Another match I would like to add is the ladder match for the Undisputed title on Raw between Hardy and Taker, it is one of my favourites and both men were outstanding, God I miss when the WWE use to pit good high flyers against good big men instead of the big man vs big man and high flyers vs high flyers they seem to prefer now.

CM Punk vs John Cena - Money in the bank 2011

Undertaker vs HBK - Wrestle Mania 26

Edge and Christan vs The dudley boyz vs The hardy boyz - Wrestle Mania 17

The Rock vs Stone Cold - Wrestle Mania 17

The Rock vs Stone Cold match was ruined by the ending for me and the heel turn of Austin which turned out to be terrible, it just leaves a nasty after taste in the mouth.

I think the only reason that Taker vs HBK wasnt given 5* was that the ending was obvious before the match. It was widely known HBK would be retiring and that the Streak wouldn't be broken. If they had had the match at the Rumble instead it would have added genuine suspense and the will HBK defy the odds factor that was missing. Just my opinion obviously, it was a great match but everytime HBK came close you knew it wasnt to be and so wasnt on the edge of my seat getting ready to mark out like I was with Cena vs Punk.

Definitely Triple H vs Shawn Michaels at Summerslam '02 - what a match.

Hmmmmm. Really critical.

Austin v Hart - Wrestlemania 13. Even watching the other week on Youtube still gives me goosebumps. The glass breaking to Austin stunning the ref. The match was carried out to perfection and was was the feud beyond it.

Cena v Punk MITB 2011. As many have said it has been a classic and credit to Cena too for pulling off the match under that intense atmosphere. For me it even eclipses the Bulldog and Hart at SS92.

HBK v Y2J Wrestlemania 19. I thought for me it was brilliant and for the ending and the kick in the nuts too at the end.

Jericho said when they walked through the curtain a few guys where moaning because they went overtime, Shawn said "when you have a match that good you go as long as you like"

And Jericho was right. That is Jericho's best match. The last 5 minutes of that match were just epic. I felt so sure Jericho was going to win. He didn't. I felt so sure Jericho was going to hold Michaels hand up. He didn't. It was thrilling.

Edge v Undertaker - TLC 2008
Edge v Undertaker - WM 24
Brock Lesnar v Kurt Angle - WM 19
Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker II - WM26
Triple H v Cactus Jack - RR 2000
CM Punk v John Cena - MitB 2011

Angle - Lesnar (Smackdown Ironman Match in 03)
Angle - HBK (Wrestlemania)
Angle - Undertaker (No Way Out 06)
Rock - HHH (Judgement Day 2000 Ironman Match)
CM Punk - John Cena (MitB 2011)

And that completes my top 5.

Stonee21 wrote:The Rock vs Stone Cold match was ruined by the ending for me and the heel turn of Austin which turned out to be terrible, it just leaves a nasty after taste in the mouth.

I understand your point fully because a) the finish isn't much of a finish, b) Austin's win still got a pop and c) it wasn't like fans wanted to boo him anywhere in the world. However in the context of "Stone Cold" Steve Austin the character and what was apparently planned for that summer before HHH's quad injury, the ending to Wrestlemania 17 is perfect and the match in my opinion is a ***** classic.

Got to say I don't agree with mitb 2011, a few too many botches a few run ins that didn't really work or make sense and an admittedly brilliant crowd going nuts for the heel leaving with the title just cause he was a home town guy?

The crowd gave it that big fight feel and I feel many are swayed by that.

That's because a crowd make a match, give me a 3* match in front of a 5* crowd everyday instead of a 5* match in front of a 3* crowd

the-gaffer wrote:That's because a crowd make a match, give me a 3* match in front of a 5* crowd everyday instead of a 5* match in front of a 3* crowd

Quoted for truth.

Undertaker-HHH at this year's Wrestlemania is a great example of this. Once the crowd really started buying the near falls, the match entered into Epic territory.

Surprised not to see Cena/RVD in your selection then gaffer. The crowd was as hot there as it had been since probably Hogan/Rock.

If Punk v Cena at MITB wasnt in Chicago then Dave Meltzer wouldnt have given it a 5 star rating.

I agree with that H. The atmosphere was even more intense than that of RVD v Cena ONS 2006.

The match got so over and I do credit Cena so much for that effort in that match.

The match only worked so well because it was against Cena, against anyone else and it wouldn't have been so monumental

I can't understand why so many people complain about some of the moves not being hit properly, or being slightly botched. I think although at times this can obviously be bad, if recovered well enough moves that aren't hit perfectly can give a match a certain believability which some matches which seem far too rehearsed can lack.

the-gaffer wrote:That's because a crowd make a match, give me a 3* match in front of a 5* crowd everyday instead of a 5* match in front of a 3* crowd

The crowd don't 'make' a match but they can certainly turn a good match into a great one