Wales 28 man squad for Australia

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/15809004.stm

Wales coach Warren Gatland has named eight injured players in a 28-man squad for Australia's visit to the Millennium Stadium on 3 December.

Backs Jamie Roberts, George North, Rhys Preistland and Leigh Halfpenny are included despite fitness doubts.

So too are forwards Dan Lydiate, Adam Jones, Luke Charteris and Huw Bennett.

Pre-World Cup captain Matthew Rees returns after injury, but Sam Warburton retains the captaincy for a match that will end Shane Williams' Wales career.


Forwards: Gethin Jenkins, Adam Jones, Ryan Bevington, Scott Andrews, Lloyd Burns, Huw Bennett, Matthew Rees, Bradley Davies, Luke Charteris, Ian Evans, Sam Warburton (captain), Dan Lydiate, Justin Tipuric, Lewis Evans, Toby Faletau, Ryan Jones

Backs: Tavis Knoyle, Lloyd Williams, Rhys Priestland, Dan Biggar, Jamie Roberts, Jonathan Davies, Scott Williams, Shane Williams, George North, Alex Cuthbert, Leigh Halfpenny, Liam Williams


...............................................

Good squad, especially if players can return from injury.


Return to the squad for Ian Evans and Dan Biggar

Newcomers are wingers Alex Cuthbert, Liam Williams and flanker Lewis Evans

Interesting to see that Brew is left out, as is Ken Owens and Jason Tovey

Knowsit17 wrote:
The more Adam Jones is absent, the more it becomes clear he's the foundation of the scrum. Very under-appreciated recently, in that regard I'd say he's still the best scrummaging tighthead in Europe if not in world rugby. When he's not around we've been royally fooked up front. Somebody is going to have to step up in his place, that is one of the single most important objectives starting from now up to 2015.

Agreed, with Adam and most of our pack fit our scrum becomes a destructive weapon. Without Adam, we can only hope for parity

Steffan Jones looks very good but he's not IMHO ready for a call up. If he continues as he is then he should get caps in due course. As you alude to the problem for Steffan is to get that game time I'm sure he'll have his chance At present I'd prefer Tovey to Biggar. Really pleased for Liam Williams, he's been impressive everytime I've seen him. Cuthbert looks pretty good as well. Him on one wing and North on the other woulf be scary to defend against if they were both coming in field to look for the ball!

Knowsit17 wrote:
I'm guessing he brings decent scrummaging, can't say for certain...

Why guess that if you don't know? I'll tell you what, I'll tell you. He isn't a decent scrummager, nowhere near decent.

Morgannwg wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:
I'm guessing he brings decent scrummaging, can't say for certain...

Why guess that if you don't know? I'll tell you what, I'll tell you. He isn't a decent scrummager, nowhere near decent.

Because I've seen no evidence to suggest that he should be branded as yet another hate-figure as many posters have an annoying tendency of doing with their rantings. We've seen it time and time again, Gareth Cooper, Ryan Jones, Dan Biggar, Huw Bennett and most recently Hook. I'm not saying they didn't deserve criticism at times but some people would do well to get a little less angry and insecure rather than rattling their cages and participating in head-calling sessions. The pattern gets extremely tedious after a while which is why I'm saying this now. What are we, wendyball fans?

Concerning what Andrews can do, I haven't seen him play enough to conclude that he's useless. Have you? The answer is no, because nobody has due to the fact that he barely has played in general. But I'm not getting worked up and making stupid unnecessary comparisons to RST because we haven't got a luxury of choice at tighthead anyway.

Hang on, you've written a paragraph of drivel saying I've suggested he's a hate-figure when I never even said that? If you're not good enough, you don't get picked. Simple. That's what I'm saying.

He's had a fair few games for Blues over the years so actually we've all seen him go backwards in the scrum. Thomas and Jarvis were the other current options at tighthead available.

I was just reading the responses and it seems the one thing we all agree on is that nobody rates Dan Biggar!

Well considering you openly made him out as another RST and the latter certainly was a hate-figure throughout the forums...

Oh geez, what has the poor boy done to everyone?

He's 22, and he is a fine, well-rounded player. Go on, name a weakness in his game?

The problem, and his areas of development lie more within the Ospreys ways of playing. An over-reliance on a kicking game that's not really working and players that haven't really gelled since they come back from the world-cup.

I'm not saying he's a world-beater but hes only 22 and will have a big part to play for Wales and the Ospreys.

Knowsit17 wrote:
Because I've seen no evidence to suggest that he should be branded as yet another hate-figure as many posters have an annoying tendency of doing with their rantings. We've seen it time and time again, Gareth Cooper, Ryan Jones, Dan Biggar, Huw Bennett and most recently Hook. I'm not saying they didn't deserve criticism at times but some people would do well to get a little less angry and insecure rather than rattling their cages and participating in head-calling sessions. The pattern gets extremely tedious after a while which is why I'm saying this now. What are we, wendyball fans?

Tell me about, some of the hate is ridiculous....

Draigoch wrote:

Knowsit17 wrote:
Because I've seen no evidence to suggest that he should be branded as yet another hate-figure as many posters have an annoying tendency of doing with their rantings. We've seen it time and time again, Gareth Cooper, Ryan Jones, Dan Biggar, Huw Bennett and most recently Hook. I'm not saying they didn't deserve criticism at times but some people would do well to get a little less angry and insecure rather than rattling their cages and participating in head-calling sessions. The pattern gets extremely tedious after a while which is why I'm saying this now. What are we, wendyball fans?

Tell me about, some of the hate is ridiculous....

I agree, apart from Biggar, screw Biggar

Good god, trying to get the obvious through to some people is incredibly difficult.

Firstly, I didn't compare them as players. I pointed out RST was once the worst player in Wales, now that he's gone Andrews (imo) is looking set to fill the gap. Nobody (me included) mentioned hate of any sort towards any player. So why you've jumped to the conlusions that you've written is anyones guess.

You've also said that Andrews has hardly played at all. This season I am not too certain but throughout his career he's featured often, showing that he plays to a level barely premiership standard and somehow still made his way into past Wales squads. If you believe he has hardly played at all, then why on earth is he selected? Which was my original point.

And if you aren't worked up as to how and why these sort of players make the squad then you can't be much of a fan.

And if you aren't worked up as to how and why these sort of players make the squad then you can't be much of a fan.

Being a fan doesn't necessarily consist of getting worked up, with the obvious exception of football fans.

I honestly think that your description of Andrews as the worst player in Wales is exaggerated to say the least. The reason I'm not bothering myself too much over it is, as I said, we haven't a luxury of choice at tighthead beyond Adam Jones, so it's hardly going to make that much difference against world class opposition if Jones is out.

That's fair... World class opposition yes, but they won't be too world class with their injury list and haven't been world class in the front row for a long time. I think Rhys Thomas would have really put in a good deal of work around the pitch.

I would have picked Rhys Thomas also, I have yet to see Mitchell deputise effectively for Jones and have yet to see Andrews play consistently at all.

I am guessing that players carrying knocks won't be involved with Regions this coming weekend.

Always a thin line on whether to risk them, shocks for me are:

Lewis Evans over Turnbuull and McCusker though chuffed for him as he has been plaiying great for us.

L Williams - but then again Halfpenny and Priestland caryying knocks and Byrne not available options are thin.

Cuthbert over Brew is disappointment rather than shock as there has been lot of hype over Cuthbert at mo.

Biggar over Tovey is again disappointment but Biggar has been playing and espiecially kicking well of late.

Never been convinced with Andrews and would have given rollerskates a shot.

My side from squad if all fit

Jenkins Rees Jones (andrews if not i guess)
Davies and Charteris (Evans if not fit)
R Jones Faletau Warburton

L Williams Priestland (Biggar if not fit)
JD2 Sc Williams
North (cuthbert if not fit) Halfpenny (Williams if not fit) S Williams

Back 3 could be very weak and inexperienced if North and Halfpenny out

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Always a thin line on whether to risk them, shocks for me are:

Lewis Evans over Turnbuull and McCusker though chuffed for him as he has been plaiying great for us.

Turnbull and McCusker are both injured

Biggar is the most accurate of all the kickers, I like rhys p in the majority of what he does at 10, but he was less than accurate with goal kicking in the rwc, a good shared partnership at 10 is what we need, we dont want it all on one player. they could push each other to improve.

cant see biggar messing this chance up, if he does through poor attitude then another shot will be a long time coming.

Name a weakness in his game? Are you serious?

Tactical kicking is his only thought. It's erratic, done at times when there are overlaps he is one dimensional, predictable and his style is not condusive to scoring tries. He does miss some pressure kicks at times too, but lets assume he will kick 5/5 pens in a game most of the time. He will give such poor distribution that Wales' defence must then limit the other team to scoring 14 points in a game. Fiji can get a result against us that way, let alone good teams.

Turk,

Didn't realise that but then again half the squad he named are injured lol

As a Blues fan, Andrews has been a bit disappointing. His scrummaging improved after being with Wales for a while, but coming off the bench on the weekend it still seemed weak.

His loose play is fairly good however (when he is on form), but he lacks consistency with a lack of gametime - his injury at the start of the season when Filise was out was unlucky.

However, he is still very young for a prop (22ish?) and no doubt he will improve - he really needs a mentor who is a fierce scrummager (hence why he hasnt really improved under the Blues with Gethin and Filise - two mobile props, compared to with Adam and Wales where his game has improved)

Hopefully, Gatland will keep him around the squad as a learning experience, releasing him to play regional games while he plays deputy to Adam and Mitchell.

But, given R.Thomas's recent form he is very hard done by not to get a chance against Aus if Adam is out.

So if everyone who is picked in the squad is available then its not looking too shabby at all.

1. Gethin
2. Smiler
3. Adam
4. Bradley
5. Charteris - Ian Evans if he doesnt make it
6. Dan L - Ryan
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. L Williams
10. Priestland
11. Shane
12. Roberts
13. JD
14. North - Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny - Liam Williams

16. Bevvington
17. Bennet
18. Ryan - Lewis Evans if Ryan has to take lydiats place
19. Tipuric
20. Tavis
21. Biggar (suprised by this choice)
22. Sc Williams

Harry2899 wrote:I have just sold my ticket for this game for less than face value after seeing the squad. I think it's a really good squad in the main. I'm really pleased we've gone down the Liam Williams and Cuthbert route rather than Brew and Tom James for example. Why I sold my ticket however is Dan Biggar's selection. I cannot bring myself to support a team with him in it. He makes Dan Parks look talented. He is so bad it's untrue. Just when Wales look like thay are going to do something they handicap themselves. Steffan Jones and Jason Tovey are pushing each other to the limit to be selected at the Dragons atm and both are neglected for Biggar. In a friendly game to help us develop! Outrageous decision. I bet Gatland is itching to promote him ahed of Priestland too.

You sold your ticket for less than face value because one man who is the form 10 in wales this season gets picked......

grow up

Harry2899 wrote:Name a weakness in his game? Are you serious?

Tactical kicking is his only thought. It's erratic, done at times when there are overlaps he is one dimensional, predictable and his style is not condusive to scoring tries. He does miss some pressure kicks at times too, but lets assume he will kick 5/5 pens in a game most of the time. He will give such poor distribution that Wales' defence must then limit the other team to scoring 14 points in a game. Fiji can get a result against us that way, let alone good teams.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxbBjIlaLcE - Watch that. Pretty sure that's not who you're describing there.

I'm not sure what he's done to you...but is there any reason you wont like to see a 22 year old magners-league winning fly-half get included in his country's squad for a one off game?

don't be surprised at biggar, he's next up, and would have been nearer a place at the rwc with better coaching , and more professional advice, instead of being praised by johnson without nailing the areas that need working on. my man to watch, cert.

Bedford you stated if all fit you would play Ryan Jones before Lydiate are you serious

gavstar wrote:don't be surprised at biggar, he's next up, and would have been nearer a place at the rwc with better coaching , and more professional advice, instead of being praised by johnson without nailing the areas that need working on. my man to watch, cert.

He's not 'next up'. He wasn't even included in the WC training squad, Tovey was but got injured in training.

Biggar is still kicking aimlessly, blaming everyone around him for his mistakes and kicking really bad drop goals- Ryan Jone's attempt was better than his !

flyhalffactory wrote:

Harry2899 wrote:I have just sold my ticket for this game for less than face value after seeing the squad. I think it's a really good squad in the main. I'm really pleased we've gone down the Liam Williams and Cuthbert route rather than Brew and Tom James for example. Why I sold my ticket however is Dan Biggar's selection. I cannot bring myself to support a team with him in it. He makes Dan Parks look talented. He is so bad it's untrue. Just when Wales look like thay are going to do something they handicap themselves. Steffan Jones and Jason Tovey are pushing each other to the limit to be selected at the Dragons atm and both are neglected for Biggar. In a friendly game to help us develop! Outrageous decision. I bet Gatland is itching to promote him ahed of Priestland too.

You sold your ticket for less than face value because one man who is the form 10 in wales this season gets picked......

grow up

While I agree its crazy to sell a ticket under face value just because Biggar is in the squad but, FHF, form 10 in Wales? Really?

SubsBench wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

Harry2899 wrote:I have just sold my ticket for this game for less than face value after seeing the squad. I think it's a really good squad in the main. I'm really pleased we've gone down the Liam Williams and Cuthbert route rather than Brew and Tom James for example. Why I sold my ticket however is Dan Biggar's selection. I cannot bring myself to support a team with him in it. He makes Dan Parks look talented. He is so bad it's untrue. Just when Wales look like thay are going to do something they handicap themselves. Steffan Jones and Jason Tovey are pushing each other to the limit to be selected at the Dragons atm and both are neglected for Biggar. In a friendly game to help us develop! Outrageous decision. I bet Gatland is itching to promote him ahed of Priestland too.

You sold your ticket for less than face value because one man who is the form 10 in wales this season gets picked......

grow up

While I agree its crazy to sell a ticket under face value just because Biggar is in the squad but, FHF, form 10 in Wales? Really?

*cough* Preistland *cough*

I'm not convinced that Biggar is the form 10 at the Ospreys!

Cuthbert got in over Brew because he can catch the ball and defend .

Brew can defend- I'm not sure what you are basing this on ? He's always hitting rucks and looking for work.

If we press him , I think Harry 2899 will admit to being a hook fan who has been soooooo disappointed that in 7yrs hook couldnt nail the 10 shirt at the ospreys, and dan biggar was picked.

biggars distribution and variety in play in the last game was excellent. he missed 2 kicks, unusual for him even his critics agree on that.
the backs were awful in that game. with better players around him ,and he's grown up since his last chance, he'll do well.

we need priestland and biggar pushing each other on.
and its not that everyone thinks he's not good enough harry, they may not like his persona but its the performance on the pitch he will be marked on.

as for not going because of one player!! most fans have 1 player they are not keen on, or a preferred player for a position, if we all stayed away on that premise the grounds would be empty.

did you pick sides from your mates when you were a kid harry? and stomp off if you didnt get who you wanted on your side? bet ya did!!!

Brews got a great defence, very good tackle.

munkian, i hear there's a job going in the watch repair shop!!

I think Brew is unlucky, but Gats has spent plenty of time with him and knows him well, maybe just wants to get to know Cuthbert?

I was chatting with a mate regarding Tovey vs Biggar and we both felt that maybe it is Toveys lack of game time this season, as with many, that has nudged the call Biggars way. Still think Biggar has a bloody long way to go to make a difference in that Welsh team.

munkian wrote:Brew can defend- I'm not sure what you are basing this on ? He's always hitting rucks and looking for work.

Well i guess Gatland has weighed up all options and decided that he only wants 2 flanker.s

I can't argue with Cuthbert being in (though potentially that's a very inexperienced back 3 with Liam and Cuthbert in there) as he's played really well so far this season - but I do like Brew and the amount of work he puts in is tremendous.

Does anyone else think Chavy is out shinning him at the Dragons this season though?

gcBlues - if there's a choice between having the winger stand back and let an isolated team mate get turned over or having a player who will battle for the ball and keep/win possession then I know which one I'd rather.

He's also very nifty, got a decent boot and has good hands

no players are selected to 'make a difference' biggar is not there 'to make a difference' are you suggesting he changes the way wales are playing? all have been chosen to play as part of the team.

''look at me doing something'' hooky has gone.

gcBlues wrote:

munkian wrote:Brew can defend- I'm not sure what you are basing this on ? He's always hitting rucks and looking for work.

Well i guess Gatland has weighed up all options and decided that he only wants 2 flanker.s

Touche'

When has he been so bad defensively ?

Smirnoffpriest wrote:I can't argue with Cuthbert being in (though potentially that's a very inexperienced back 3 with Liam and Cuthbert in there) as he's played really well so far this season - but I do like Brew and the amount of work he puts in is tremendous.

Does anyone else think Chavy is out shinning him at the Dragons this season though?

I don;t think he's out shining him as such. Chavvy is very fast whislt Brew is fast with a lot of power.

They are a great combination of strike runners though I'm looking forward to Harries coming back too.

Maybe it's just because Chavy is faster (and new) he catches the attention more - I agree they are a great combination, and with Thomas at FB and Harries and Smith in the centre you have a very dangerous backline - just a shame about Poole.

Smith does seem to be coming back into form again.

Harries in the centre ? Dont you mean Hughes ?

gcBlues wrote:

munkian wrote:Brew can defend- I'm not sure what you are basing this on ? He's always hitting rucks and looking for work.

Well i guess Gatland has weighed up all options and decided that he only wants 2 flanker.s

That's Mike Phillips's international career over then!

gavstar wrote:If we press him , I think Harry 2899 will admit to being a hook fan who has been soooooo disappointed that in 7yrs hook couldnt nail the 10 shirt at the ospreys, and dan biggar was picked.

biggars distribution and variety in play in the last game was excellent. he missed 2 kicks, unusual for him even his critics agree on that.
the backs were awful in that game. with better players around him ,and he's grown up since his last chance, he'll do well.

Haha I'm no Hook fan. He's nearly as bad as Biggar. Terribly overrated. I am not anti ospreys either before someone says it. They have some good players coming through- Webb, Beck, Tipuric, Morgan and Sam Lewis. I just think Wales should forget about Hook and Biggar and focus on the wealth of young talent we have coming through who haven't blown every chance they've had costing us games.

And as for putting up a clip of Dan Biggar for the Ospreys in one match, why dont you put the Wales / Fiji draw lowlights up and compare his performance, just for balance?

biggar hasnt played enough at international level to be measured on international performance. give him another chance.

same goes for priestland to a lesser degree, give him a chance. one poor game from either of these and the knives and western hook mail will be on their case!!!

as for hook, well i agree with you . gone

bet you'll miss a great game harry.

munkian wrote:Smith does seem to be coming back into form again.

Harries in the centre ? Dont you mean Hughes ?

Apologies I do indeed mean Hughes (thought there was something weird when I typing his name...)

Heh heh , did wonder, he'd get smashed, mind still boggles how Hughes doesn't get stretchered off every game - he tackles and takes hits well above his weight

agree re Hughes, his defence is fantastic, great attack too. Could well be a worthy addition to an already crowded midfield conundrum, with Roberts, Davies, Williams, Henson, Hook already in consideration.

Hughes and Adam Warren (Scarlets) both looking great this season, plus beck down at Llandarcy we have plenty to choose from...