Haglar v Duran- what could have been.

2 ATG fighters (although Duran is debatable)

If Haglar went into that fight with the same intensity he went into the fight with Hearns and if Duran showed up as intimidating as he was against Leonard 1 looking for a war.......who wins?

BTW the above statement re Duran is my own opinion after clear and precise research, please comment on article.

I think even Duran, despite being the quintessential macho man fighter of his day, knew that trying to go to war with an all-time great who held all the physical advantages over him by considerable margins and who could punch as well as just about any post-war Middleweight would have been suicide.

Duran fought a little more tentatively against Hagler than he done against Leonard for that very reason. As he himself said, he wanted to 'eat Leonard up' in that fight. If he'd tried the same against Hagler, it would have been a similar outcome to the annihilation against Hearns, particularly if we're talking about a snarling, relentless Hagler, the one we saw against Tommy, who had no interest in showing respect to a great champion or feeling his opponent out early.

I'd never be so disrespectful to Duran to suggest that Hagler 'carried' him, so to speak, in the slightest. However, I have long believed that, with the fight being Marvin's first venture in to 'super fight' territory, that he wanted a chance to showcase his full array of skills and that this, maybe without him even knowing it, pushed him in to fighting a bit of a more measured fight than he normally would have done.

In a war Hagler wins 9 times out of 10, far too big and strong for a former lightweight like Duran (definite ATG by the way).

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:2 ATG fighters (although Duran is debatable)

No it isn't.

Not too sure the research is as clear and precise as you seem to think onetwo, it appears that you've been badly misled.

In terms of the fight, Hagler will always win a war against the career lightweight, so in that respect Duran was always going to fight the fight he did. Hagler's performance was the surprising one.

I don't see how Hagler could be bullied or pushed back or outwarred as amazing as Duran was, the guy was a natural Lightweight and to do that against one of the best and toughest Middleweights of all time is a bit out of reach for him.

rowley wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:2 ATG fighters (although Duran is debatable)

No it isn't.

Rowley, everything is debatable. Then we agree that onetwo is wrong.

bhb001 wrote:

rowley wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:2 ATG fighters (although Duran is debatable)

No it isn't.

Rowley, everything is debatable. Then we agree that onetwo is wrong.

We could debate whether the moon is made of cheese, doesn't mean we should.

Even Truss, the harshest critic of 'Hands of Stone' I've ever seen, would grumpily concede that Duran is worthy of 'all-time great' status. Don't think there's much to debate after that!

Kind of what I was getting at with the agree he was wrong crack at the end.

Why is Duran still classed as a career lightweight? Does anyone think he could have got down to 135lbs the night he fought Hagler, or is it just a cheap way at taking a shot at Hagler for not blowing Duran away?

Duran was a lightweight, he certainly wasn't a middleweight.

Atila wrote:Why is Duran still classed as a career lightweight? Does anyone think he could have got down to 135lbs the night he fought Hagler, or is it just a cheap way at taking a shot at Hagler for not blowing Duran away?

Because the large majority of his meaningful career (I think even his sternest critics would be happy to discard anything from 1990 onwards, for instance, or anything during the late sixties when he really was just a kid growing in to his best fighting weight) was spent at 135 lb. There's no way that Duran could have made Lightweight in 1983, you're right, but that doesn't automatically mean that he was a natural Middleweight, or anything even approaching one.

I wouldn't say it's a cheap shot at Hagler at all, personally. Beating the naturally smaller man has been par for the course and expected throughout boxing history, and fans have never been shy in pointing that out; Marciano is sometimes criticised for beating a collection of career Light-Heavyweights, Hopkins' critics will always tell anyone who will listen that De la Hoya and Trinidad were naturally smaller than him, and there is a pattern to Hearns' career which saw him often beat those who were smaller than him, but have a tougher time against men of equal or more size. Hagler isn't being singled out.

Fair enough. It just seemed to me, as a way of having a go at Hagler. After all, I never hear people saying that Leonard got beat by a 'career lightweight' or a 'blown up lightweight'.

Leonard was a Welterweight which is the big difference between he and Hagler, not many if any lightweights have made an impression in the middleweight division while a few have on the Welterweight division.

I can't honestly believe anyone can even question whether Duran is a ATG or not one of the best Lightweights ever been, 4 weight world champ,lets be fair the only man to ice him is Hearns and Duran fought everyone, what's not great about him?

To take Hagler the full 15 was an achievement to run him so close is colossal, had they fought toe to toe Hagler would have relished it and won a lot more comfortable think he would have stopped Duran late on.

Hagler would destroy duran and easily at that. Duran would not be able to push back hagler, hurt hagler or bully hagler. Hagler was a natural middleweight and was a big puncher. Duran would be chewed up on the inside, hagler can match any middleweight in history in an out and out war, so a lightweight would stand no chance no matter how tough duran was

Duran was great......Marvin had nights where he forgot to turn up and I see Duran as being one of those nights...although Duran had a wonderful habit of taking a half step forward then shifting back and drawing fighters in for counters..which he did on numerous occasions with Hagler...

Hagler wasn't a great boxer (great fighter) but what he had was good all round skill and the ability to box off either foot...

If it was a war he batters Duran not 9/10 but 10/10...too big and strong...As alluded to above Duran knew this !!!!whereas a war with Leonard was a good idea... he knew Hagler loved a war...

But as with Vito.. Hagler wasn't in the mood and it nearly cost him...

think hagler took duran a tad lightly to be honest

Think Hagler was too much of a pro for that......Buchanan was a good technician and got owned by Roberto....

Certainly had his tricks......that half step certainly drew in lot's of fighters..

Duran really showed the way to beat Hagler and nearly beat him he did, ahead after 12 rounds but like a true champion does Hagler pulled it out the bag in the last 3 rounds.

I think people need to watch this fight again if they think Hagler won it in the chanpionship rounds. The judges made Duran ahead, but watch the fight again and you will see that in no way was Hagler behind. Goin into R12 I had Hagler up by 2 rounds.

Yes Duran showed how to fight Marvin. Goes to show how great Duran was as a fighter. But I believe he had the sympathy vote in many rounds.

While since I've watched it but I think Hagler fought like he did against Leonard and Vito......within himself !!

and almost like the Leonard/Vito fights it nearly cost him..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:While since I've watched it but I think Hagler fought like he did against Leonard and Vito......within himself !!

and almost like the Leonard/Vito fights it nearly cost him..

You're correct. For a supposed professional who didn't wear silk PJs, Marvin had a stupid tendancy to go walkabout. Perhaps he thought he just had to attend to win.

azania wrote:I think people need to watch this fight again if they think Hagler won it in the chanpionship rounds. The judges made Duran ahead, but watch the fight again and you will see that in no way was Hagler behind. Goin into R12 I had Hagler up by 2 rounds.

Yes Duran showed how to fight Marvin. Goes to show how great Duran was as a fighter. But I believe he had the sympathy vote in many rounds.

Good post.

It's been years since I saw the fight, but I don't remember thinking that Hagler had to take the last 3 rounds to win the fight. Obviously, the judges saw it differently though, but if that had been a 12 round fight and Duran had got the decision, I think it would have been highy controversial.

Agree with the pair of you. No bigger Duran fan than me on here, but I think Hagler won that fight by a more convincing margin that the judges would have us believe. 145-140 is probably the fairest reflection in my mind.

This is gettig ridiculous. Two people agreeing with me in quick succession. I must be doing something very wrong.

Must try harder!!