If controversy won you matches....

Then who would be in your XI?

Few names I will give you to get you started: Hansie Cronje, Shahid Afridi, and of course the Pakistani trio that have made recent headlines.

There have been plenty of controversial figures throughout the history of cricket, some for worse reasons than others, but who would make your most controversial XI?

1.Chris Gayle (always at loggerheads with WICB. Has openly come out and said he dosent wanna play test cricket)

2.Salman Butt (Spot fixing)

3.Inzaam ul-Haq( Ball tampering, forefeited test)

4.Hanse Cronje( Match fixing)

5.Shaid Afridi (what can you say, anything you can think of, he has done it)

6.Mark Waugh (him and warne invovled in betting shops, and giving away teams, pitch conditions etc)

7.Kamran Akmal (sydney test, and a number of different things)

8.Murali (controversy followed him over his action) (i dont think he chucked it)

9.Shane Warne (cocaine, possible fixing, different bans)

10.Shoaib Akhtar (everything)

11.Mohammed Asif (drugs, fixing)

Spot on cf, very much the same lineup I had in mind other than one or two tweaks.

I'd slot Greg Chappell in there somewhere. Andrew Flintoff is another possible, given his drinking and pedalo exploits! Waqar Younis would be in the squad, too, along with Andrew Symonds.

I guess the likes of Larwood could be considered for their role in the bodyline series.

i considered flintoff, but there was more obvious players lol

Harbhajan is another we have overlooked! A real controversial character!

yh but look at the bowling attack i have, you couldnt squeeze him in there.

Maybe in place of Murali. Murali has had controversy follow him throughout his career, but more as a result of a natural action as opposed to any misdemeanours of his own, and he has always been a model professional. In that case, I'd find a slot for Harby ahead of him.

There appears to be something about spinners and controversy!

Grace and Jardine should get a game.

Don't forget Tony Grieg

Azharaddin (spelling?) would also get a game for that side. And I agree that Tony Grieg has to captain just for that one line!

Maybe Andy Flower and Henry Olonga could get a look in? Although I am not sure they would fit in with this side as the controversy they caused was certianly welcomed by most people bar a select few.

Greig is certainly a good call, as is Jardine.

Not too sure about the controversies of WG Grace, anyone wish to enlighten me?

he once got bowled out by a youngster, and he put the bails back on the stumps, and said, they are all here to watch me bat, not you bowl.

Fists of Fury wrote:Greig is certainly a good call, as is Jardine.

Not too sure about the controversies of WG Grace, anyone wish to enlighten me?

Didn't he refuse to walk if given out. Maybe controversial is a bit strong

What about Botham?

Beefy is certainly worthy of a spot in the squad, though he might be kept out of the starting XI by some real controversial figures.

Yeah, thinking about it, when you take in to account the context of Grace's refusal to walk, that was a very controversial thing to do at the time. Let's put him down as a possible

WG Grace has to be in there! Hoggy has some stories to share apart from the "people have come to watch me bat not you bowl, now get on with it" remark given by Cf.

G. Chappell was excluded from our HoF due to one controversy, surely that should be enough to guarantee him a place.

Jardine surely for captain?

Shahid Afridi for being 17 for so long, dancing on wickets, biting balls, etc, etc.

Hanse Cronje for obvious reasons.

This leaves one batting spot open still, back to that in a second.

Have there ever been any real controversial wicket-keepers? I'm struggling here. Healy made a few throwaway comments and didn't get on with everyone ("you don't get a runner for being an unfit, lazy [insert expletive]"), but by all accounts was a very good sportsman, who admitted when the ball didn't carry through. Didn't Adam Parore get in trouble with his board for something, or did I imagine that?

S. Warne of course is a shoe-in. Not sure where the cocaine comes in though Cf, IIRC he was banned for taking a diuretic (sliming product but banned as a masking agent). Whatever: he certainly gets in easily.

Shoaib Akhtar of course!

Murali? Not sure, the only thing he could have done differently was accept his fate and stop bowling the doosra. I would argue Harbajhan has done far more to warrant admition.

Mohammed Asif completes my side.

Geoff Griffin.

If Darrell Hair was umpiring you could choose any XI.

Shakoor Rana could also umpire.

I have heard that remark made by Grace before, but wasn't sure as to its accuracy.

So, it is indeed true, then? Were there no authorities to say 'hang on a minute, you're out!'??

Fists of Fury wrote:I have heard that remark made by Grace before, but wasn't sure as to its accuracy.

So, it is indeed true, then? Were there no authorities to say 'hang on a minute, you're out!'??

My grandad swears it's true. Although he wasn't around at the time, he may well have heard a first-hand account. I think Wisden quotes it somewhere, so am pretty sure it's true. Apparently Grace claimed the first ball of the match was a "practice ball", when the bowler protested he came out with his now famous remark.

As to what the umpires were upto no one really knows, but I think it's just illustrative of the power the doctor had on the game. IIRC it was a tour match rather than a full-blown international. The bowler of course was Australian...

i dont know, i just know that the comment was made.

The bowler of course was Australian...

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Aah, it was bowled underarm, hence Grace's comments

Aaah I see, makes more sense now. Was it Greg Chappell's previous incarnation?

In that case, WG remains on the fringes of this team. Had he made such a remark to a properly bowled ball I would have made him captain!!

Darrell Hair and Shakoor Rana have to be shoe-ins to umpire. Maybe Lou Rowan as third umpire?

It's true that there have been very few controversial keepers. Just goes to show how morally superior we are

Kamran Akmal would have to be the keeper, I imagine, he hasn't been without his misdemeanours.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Darrell Hair and Shakoor Rana have to be shoe-ins to umpire. Maybe Lou Rowan as third umpire?

It's true that there have been very few controversial keepers. Just goes to show how morally superior we are

Saleem Yousuf was a bit of a cheat, well he appealed for almost everything.

Is Kamran Akmal really guilty of anything more than being a rubbish keeper though? Dreadful technique, always on his heels, and no "give". I guess his name did pop up during the spot-fixing trial I think.

Stella, nothing wrong with a bit of enthusiasm

Stella, nothing wrong with a bit of enthusiasm

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Spoken like a true keeper

I kept wicket once for a Sunday side. We had a leggie who on one occasion beat the batsmen as he went down the wicket. Trouble was, I forgot to stump him and threw the ball back to the bowler.
He saw the funny side, after the initial shock.

Quickly looking in from work.

To prove that dignity can occasionally accompany controversy, Basil D'Oliveira.

Mike - if you hadn't, I would have suggested Greg Chappell. Of wicket keepers, Foster of Essex tends to get into trouble from time to time although that's probably mainly down to frustration at playing for a rubbish team (sorry CF ).

If you want someone from further back, look up paceman Charlie Griffith of the West Indies. He was very quick - smashing the skull of an Indian batsman in the mid 1960's - but suspected by some of being a chucker ....

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Is Kamran Akmal really guilty of anything more than being a rubbish keeper though? Dreadful technique, always on his heels, and no "give". I guess his name did pop up during the spot-fixing trial I think.

Stella, nothing wrong with a bit of enthusiasm

Paul Farbrace (who won't mind the name drop I'm sure) was adamant that you don't "give", you "absorb". Apparently Australians sometimes struggle when they tour England as they get their hands too far out in front of them to be able to "give" more, then the ball does it's crazy dip thing and you don't have time to react. Farby says you absorb with your elbows rather than your hands. Apparently the word "absorb" is more active and so stresses to the youngster that he is in control, not the ball.

It's a valid point though: given that the keepers are expected to be the heartbeat of the side, it's not surprising they sometimes get a little too enthusiastic. For instance Gilchrist was a great role model when he batted with his walking, but I've seen him appeal for things he must have known weren't out.

I'll never forget my first game this year, having changed clubs to one where there tends to be less appealing than at my previous club. An opposition bat was (in my view) plumb LBW, so I started the vociferous appeal only to not be backed up by the rest of the team. Thinking maybe I missed an inside-edge or something, I choked the appeal off, but then the bowler belatedly appealed and the ump gave him out. The captain then gave us both a right rollicking saying "I don't want to miss out on any dismissals because you don't appeal" with some swearing interjected (this was a pre-season friendly). Interesting times...

Mike Selig wrote:

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Is Kamran Akmal really guilty of anything more than being a rubbish keeper though? Dreadful technique, always on his heels, and no "give". I guess his name did pop up during the spot-fixing trial I think.

Stella, nothing wrong with a bit of enthusiasm

Paul Farbrace (who won't mind the name drop I'm sure) was adamant that you don't "give", you "absorb". Apparently Australians sometimes struggle when they tour England as they get their hands too far out in front of them to be able to "give" more, then the ball does it's crazy dip thing and you don't have time to react. Farby says you absorb with your elbows rather than your hands. Apparently the word "absorb" is more active and so stresses to the youngster that he is in control, not the ball.

right "absorb" if you prefer. You're right in that it's the elbows doing the absorbing, not the hands. Doesn't change the fact that Akmal does very little of it, though his main weakness is still his footwork for me.

Kamran Akmal was in my side because, of the fixing controversy, 4 dropped catches off one bowler to the same batsman, and then the run out incident,

its a controvery side therefore he was in my side.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:It's a valid point though: given that the keepers are expected to be the heartbeat of the side, it's not surprising they sometimes get a little too enthusiastic. For instance Gilchrist was a great role model when he batted with his walking, but I've seen him appeal for things he must have known weren't out.

I'll never forget my first game this year, having changed clubs to one where there tends to be less appealing than at my previous club. An opposition bat was (in my view) plumb LBW, so I started the vociferous appeal only to not be backed up by the rest of the team. Thinking maybe I missed an inside-edge or something, I choked the appeal off, but then the bowler belatedly appealed and the ump gave him out. The captain then gave us both a right rollicking saying "I don't want to miss out on any dismissals because you don't appeal" with some swearing interjected (this was a pre-season friendly). Interesting times...

It sounds terrible, but we actively work on our appealing... The "worth a shout but probably not out so let's choke it now", the "instintive yelp before you realise it's obviously not out", the "that's mightily close so let's pretend it's obviously out to try and convince the umpire" (the key is to get this right), the "so obviously out let's appeal normally because the umpire can't fail to give it" (this sometimes backfires). I'm convinced most international sides do the same...

On the Grace thing. Certainly the not walking when bowled out thing seems to be true, although I read that it was in an exhibition match which may allieviate the controversy surrounding it.
However, it wasn't the only controversy he was involved in. There was also an incident when he heard a batsman say that he had been out caught off the last ball of the day and so appealed for the catch before the first ball of the next morning (an act which led to a change of the rules).
Perhaps most controversial of all, however, was Grace's 'shamateurism'. Despite, ostensibly, being an amateur (and enjoying all the priveleges of amateur status), Grace made more money from cricket, and charged more in expenses, than any professional. Of course he wasn't alone in that. Andrew Stoddart, who played cricket and rugby for England, was also known to charge for playing matches, despite being an amateur, but the scale of Grace's earnings outstripped anyone else. So, perhaps, it is for being the greatest of the 'shamateurs' that Grace should be included in this team.

Thanks for the additional info, Hoggy.

Grace certainly does seem like an incredibly interesting, controversial and pioneering figure all in equal measure, and I might have to do some wider reading on his exploits as a result of this thread.

One thing stands out to me though, and that is that despite the controversial nature of many of hid actions he really must have been a clever and cunning chap, with the next morning appeal standing out in particular.

Arjuna Ranatunga could be added to the squad.

I remember him taking his players off the field when Murali was called for chucking.

I'm sure there were other tangles which he got into.

Where's Mike Atherton, doesn't having dirt in your pocket to 'dry your hands' seem worthy enough for an inclusion?

(1) Greg Chappell. Instructing younger brother Trevor to bowl the final ball of the match underarm and along the ground.

(2) Dennis Lillee. Betting on England to win at 500-1 in the 1981 Ashes.

(3) Mike Atherton. Dirt in the pocket.

(4) Hansie Cronje. Match fixing scandal

(5) Muttiah Muralitharan. No balled for chucking.

(6) Butt, Asif and Amir.. Prison for spot fixing.

(7) Douglas Jardine. Bodyline

(8) Mike Denness. Match referee who dished out suspended bans to six Indian players in the 2001 Test match against SA, including Tendulka for ball tampering.

(9) Mike Gatting. Infamous finger wagging incident with Shakoor Rana.

(10) Inzamam ul Haq. England v Pakistan. Abandoned 2006 Test match

Spoilt for choice. But W G Grace has to be captain.

If controversy includes in-house disharmony I would nominate Boycott and Gavaskar as openers for any limited overs match. Or Peter Moores (manager) and KP (temporary captain)

Once we settle upon the XI for our controversial team, how about Gary Pratt as twelfth man?

guildfordbat wrote:Once we settle upon the XI for our controversial team, how about Gary Pratt as twelfth man?

But only if we are playing the Aussies....

Has no-one mentioned Andrew Symonds ?
Does Matty Hayden deserve a spot in the squad ?

I suppose you can really do three categories of controversy.

Those who dabbled with the illegal such as match fixing, spot betting etc.

Those who had controversy in their lives off the field of play such as drugs, women, drinking etc..

Those who had controversy on the field of play, such as bal tampering, actions etc.

biltongbek wrote:I suppose you can really do three categories of controversy.

Those who dabbled with the illegal such as match fixing, spot betting etc.

Those who had controversy in their lives off the field of play such as drugs, women, drinking etc..

Those who had controversy on the field of play, such as bal tampering, actions etc.

A far less common fourth category of controversy can also be added -

Those who acted with total dignity in the face of it.

Basil D'Oliveira RIP

Grizzly, I think I briefly mentioned Symonds. He could be as controversial as the best (worst) of them.

biltongbek wrote:I suppose you can really do three categories of controversy.

Those who dabbled with the illegal such as match fixing, spot betting etc.

Those who had controversy in their lives off the field of play such as drugs, women, drinking etc..

Those who had controversy on the field of play, such as bal tampering, actions etc.

There speaks an analytical brain - bringing order to the ideas

If the team needs a press officer they could do worse than enlist Jeremy Clarkson.

Corporalhumblebucket wrote:If the team needs a press officer they could do worse than enlist Jeremy Clarkson.

Inzamam should be in there.

An indian fan chants at him using a megaphone comparing him to all kinds of potatoes/Potato dishes - so he sends out word to the dressing room to have a bat brought out to the boundary. Either mushtaq or Ijaz ahmed hand him the bat and he charges into the crowd swinging the bat at him . Crickets cantona moment.

I didn't know of that, that's brilliant!