Harlequins. Really quite good, actually.

Just thought I'd drop that in. They beat Wasps away this afternoon with 1/3 of the first team out injured. Toulouse on Friday will be a tough ask, but I know they can do it if they keep playing the way they're playing.

Yep, it now seems utterly amazing that there was only a single Quins player in the whole of world cup squad, doesn't it? If the likes of Robshaw, Marler, Care (I know he was injured), Robson, Gray, Brown, Lowe and Turner-Hall aren't at least in contention for places, I'll be very disappointed.

Yup lots of English talent doing well....nice to see.

Cumbrian id even have a look at Wallace...for our problematic 7 spot...

6 Wood (Saints)
7 Wallace
8 Robshaw

looks far more interesting than

6 Croft
7 Moody
8 Easter

Wallace does seem like some prospect, he won another man-of-the-match award today (His third of the season). I could see him being a bolter. Lets face it, Warburton started to break into the Welsh squad after playing only about a dozen games for the Blues and it hasn't gone too badly for him!

Normally I'm fairly conservative in my selections. But England have already lost a number of backrowers such as Haskell and Crane and the 'safer' options such as Moody and Worsley have retired. So aside from the established lads (Wood & Croft) and Chris Robshaw, are there any internationally experienced player out there anyway?

I reckon Easter might have boned himself with the latest published comments too.

There's usually six backrow spots in the EPS, so with Fearns, Crane & Haskell out of contention and Guest only just back in full training (unlikely to get a good run of games over the next month), I reckon Wallace or Seymour should definitely be selected.

Wood
Croft
Robshaw
Wallace/Seymour
Easter
Dowson/Waldrom

a) I'm not sure Robshaw's an 8, though his performance against Wasps was enough to make me think again

b) Easter's likely to make the EPS, at least in the short term, simply because England can't afford to throw out all its experienced players at once

c) England can't have Wallace, at least not until Guest has played himself back in. Taking three back rowers from one squad is just vindictive...

Robshaw was good in the second half, but terrible in the first.

Nick Cain in the Rugby Paper wants a back row of:

6) Croft
7) Robshaw
8) Wood

I like Wallace and have watched him with interest this season. I think he should be in with a shout at the 7 spot.

Definitely would like to see flankers for the squad being Croft, Wallace, Wood & one other... not sure who.

No.8 is a worry for me... you just know that Easter will get back in the EPS. He is good at controlling the ball at the breakdown but is a slow & terrible ball carrier.

It should be Haskell but he just isn't going to be around.

Great to see Quins extend their run - I think the Toulouse home game on Friday is a sell out - should be a great game at the stoop.

RE: England no.8's, I really dont think that we can read too much into Robshaw playing international 8. We've seen that fail too often, in the WC when Haskell was covering 8 - you need to play there all the time to be technical enough at that level. Covering at club is a different matter.
The same to be said when people talk about Wood playing 8.

I've got an inkling that Waldrom and his english granny will be getting a look in this 6N - I agreee that Easter saying that it might have been his comment that people overheard might bump him to the back-up bearth for a little bit.

If the likes of Robshaw, Marler, Care (I know he was injured), Robson, Gray, Brown, Lowe and Turner-Hall aren't at least in contention for places, I'll be very disappointed.

I think you will be disapointed in respect of JTH and Lowe neither are in the top 2 for their positions and both are currently injured. Marler looked too shakey at the scrum to be considered but I think Care will be a certainty and Robson and Gray should be making the step up as both have been in great form. Was noticeable how much the Quins set piece suffered minus Robson and Kohn, how long are they out for?

Cumbrian id even have a look at Wallace...for our problematic 7 spot...

6 Wood (Saints)
7 Wallace
8 Robshaw

Robshaw got away with playing 8 as the big Samoan blindside (who's name I can never remember) took on so much of the carrying work. That backrow just doesn't have enough carrying power.

I thought Quins were clinical when they had chances but gave far too much territory and possession to Wasps. A couple of decisions could have easily gone the other way and Quins would have been down a prop (first half a warning was given) and Brown (deliberate knock on). That could have changed the game. They need to tighten that up before Tolouse in the HEC as they have a real chance of winning but only if they control the flow of the game, which they didn't do against Wasps.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Robshaw got away with playing 8 as the big Samoan blindside (who's name I can never remember) took on so much of the carrying work. That backrow just doesn't have enough carrying power.

I thought Quins were clinical when they had chances but gave far too much territory and possession to Wasps. A couple of decisions could have easily gone the other way and Quins would have been down a prop (first half a warning was given) and Brown (deliberate knock on). That could have changed the game. They need to tighten that up before Tolouse in the HEC as they have a real chance of winning but only if they control the flow of the game, which they didn't do against Wasps.

Agree with you about Robshaw at 8; he makes important yards but is not a game breaking carrier of the ball.

As for Quins' style of play, how closely have you watched them this season? Defensively, they are happy to play without the ball for long periods and just soak up the pressure. They've conceded fewer penalties than anyone else this season. Maybe they were lucky against Wasps in the first half - but then in the second half Wasps scored twice off a forward pass and an illegal block. Them's the breaks.

They seem to have found a way to play without controlling the game entirely, which is probably for the best. You can't play the way they do in attack for 80 minutes (but they can turn it on for 10 minutes and score 10+ points when they need to), so they need an alternative.

Toulouse will ask tougher questions than Wasps did, undoubtedly - but bear in mind that the pack on Sunday had our 3rd and 5th choice locks (the latter an academy lad), our 5th choice No 8, and our centre pairing had never played together before. On Friday, we should have Easter and Robson back, which will make an enormous difference.

I suspect that Quins will win on Friday and deny Toulouse a bonus point.

This is not because they played well yesterday - rather the reverse. 3 times I have seen them now, once live and twice on TV. Each time they were not very good (though admittedly better than Tigers) but they won, before going on to then play well the following week.

The IRFU will have to get their hands on Conor O'Shea at some point. He's overseen a very impressive turnaround at quins.

Feckless Rogue I can think of another certain Irishman the IRFU should also look at.

I am looking forward to the 27th December Quins vs Sarries at Twickenham. It's the top table clash - the table toppers vs the defending champions.

From what you are saying Poorfour it looks like Quins are copying our style.

Wasps scored off a forward pass against us too.

Toulouse will ask tougher questions than Wasps did, undoubtedly - but bear in mind that the pack on Sunday had our 3rd and 5th choice locks (the latter an academy lad), our 5th choice No 8, and our centre pairing had never played together before. On Friday, we should have Easter and Robson back, which will make an enormous difference

Undoubtebly did Quins miss Robson and Kohn against Wasps but Tolouse are from 1 to 23 better than Wasps man for man and as a team. Quins will need more than a mere step up they will need to bring the intensity they turn as and when they need to for most of the 80 minutes. They might not give away many penalties but the French teams are more than happy to slot drop goals and the Tolouse attack will cause damage if given the kind of possession and territory Wasps got. I'm quite looking forward to the game as it should be a great watch but Quins will need to control one of the territory or the possession if they want to win, the lethal counter attacking strike play they utilise will set them in good stead but they'll want to keep Tolouse under pressure and force mistakes as they will give up penalties in their own half.

Feckless Rogue wrote:The IRFU will have to get their hands on Conor O'Shea at some point. He's overseen a very impressive turnaround at quins.

Anytime that I can remember O'Shea getting involved in a club, he does seem to improve everything around him. I doesn't overly seek out the limelight, but steers the ship and appears to have everyone bought into the direction they want to go. I worry if a beast like the IRFU would allow him the control/reach he needs to truly kick them into shape.

Not losing a load of players to the EPS is a big benefit to Quins also. While it is great for the players to represent their country (and I'm focused more on the international scene than the club scene), with a club hat on it means you have your players for more of the year, they are only playing games for you and you can manage their minutes on the field much better. They also don't have to deal with different tactics - focus - etc and can really buy into a playing style.

I worry if a beast like the IRFU would allow him the control/reach he needs to truly kick them into shape..

With the set of the IRFU I can't see O'Shea being let anywhere near it unless he lands a provincial job for a few years first and I can't see him agreeing with all the IRFU control over the players. He seems to like to do things his way and only wants to be associated with players that buy into his ethos of rugby and I'm not sure any region would buy into that complete overhaul of thinking.

Quins whole style this season has been based around being comfortable without the ball and when we have it making it count. With that kind of gameplan we can beat anyone as long as the boys keep the faith.

On Sat it was an even more extreme example of that as the centre partnership was so new and raw we didn't play the ball through them much at all. It was either kicked away in the hope that the opposition would kick back to our back three or else it was ran back by the forwards.

Toulouse will look after the ball and go through the phases but unless they can take points every time they enter the 22 I can't see them winning.

I see the centre defensive partnership as the biggest weak link. They're just not used to playing together and if the defence is split then you're no longer confortable on the ball

HammerofThunor wrote:I see the centre defensive partnership as the biggest weak link. They're just not used to playing together and if the defence is split then you're no longer confortable on the ball

Yep that was highlighted partially by Wasps second ( I think) try. Hopper gets completely out of position and allows Varndell straight through (although the blocking helped).

Other then that though the defense was surprisingly tight, Casson especially really impressed in that regard. Toulouse I imagine will test it a bit more but isn't Luke Mccalister playing a bit crap at the moment?

[quote="yappysnap] Toulouse I imagine will test it a bit more but isn't Luke Mccalister playing a bit crap at the moment?[/quote]

well you might be surprised on friday...he had a good game last weekend against Toulon and been consistently good since the beginning of the season instrumental in some of Toulouse victories. he could be better though if he took time to look around before passing the ball (thats the only thing I would hold against him right now).

Cheers Whocares. Ive heard mixed reports on him and was hoping for the worse ones to be true... The whole Burgess/McCalister axis is pretty scary, especially when you see the frickin massive pack of rock apes in front of them and basically the French backline outside them.

Which T14 team do you support (if you support one)? Will you be routing for Toulouse?

I support begles-bordeaux but happy to see Toulouse win

with Picamoles also on fire against toulon, the 8-9-10 battle vs Quins will be worth a look at!

Toulouse game finally starting to click but they are still doing a lot of silly mistakes and getting too much penalties against them (2 yellow cards
against toulon!), also they have been struggling in converting their chances into points...so given what I read about Harlequins game management and efficiency, I certainly wont be confindent on friday night.