Scotland: A team to fear in the 2012 6Ns?

For years past Scotland have bucked their own trend by flattering to deceive during the summer and autumn only to end up in the basement area of the 6Ns table.

This year however, there has been nothing to create any rational prospect of inflated achievement. So nobody should expect anything.

But from bitter experience, I am well aware that this is exactly when Scotland are their most dangerous - flying below the radar.

Portnoy Scotland always fly below the radar. They are given the dark horses tag every year but never live up to this tag.

No side will be a pushover for England in the 6 nations in my opinion.

I don't think anybody should necessarily fear Scotland.

The most important thing is that Scotland should not fear anyone else either.

If AR picks the right backs, we could potentially end with 6 points and a third place finish.

Or they could drive me to absolute despair once again and ruin my Easter.

Oh the joys.

If I got a quid for every time Scotland were labled dark horses for the 6N I wouldn't be typing this at work.

Scotland are improving but it will be a couple of Seasons before we see the best out of this team. I reckon we can beat everyone in the 6N but logically I think we will only beat England, mostly because of the emotions involved in the oldest Rugby fixture and how difficult a place Murrayfield has become for our cousins south of the border.

Scotland can beat the likes of Wales, Ireland and Italy away from home. Certainly the last time we visited Cardiff and Dublin we beat Ireland in one of the best games in the 2010 tournament and were frankly robbed by Wales in Cardiff so anything is possible. Italy though I reckon can go either way. Rome is not an easy place to go to and win. With Italy now playing their matches in the Stadio Olympico I reckon 60000+ Itallians will be a tough match to say the least.

As for France at home who knows? New Coach will be in place and have his feet under the table by the time they come to Edinburgh but as with England France have fallen at Murrayifeld too.

6N is arguably the tightest it has been for some time.

Scotland though are not dark horses or anything close to it. Our clubs seem to be playing well and have been scoring decent tries. However with the age of some of the guys at Edinburgh and Glasgow it'll be a couple of seasons before we see their best.

beshocked wrote:Portnoy Scotland always fly below the radar. They are given the dark horses tag every year but never live up to this tag.

No side will be a pushover for England in the 6 nations in my opinion.

You miss my point, beshocked. What I am saying is that Scotland tend to turn up when nobody expects it. And this time around they have nothing to suggest present promise as a team in form.

But they have the players and the fixture list in the 6Ns to create a shock.

Portnoy what would be a shock?

I am the expert of being shocked. Would beating England be a shock? No

If Scotland can beat anyone other than England and Italy then yes it would be a shock.

When do Scotland turn up when no one expects it? The only shock I can think of is Ireland away.

Portnoy wrote:You miss my point, beshocked. What I am saying is that Scotland tend to turn up when nobody expects it. And this time around they have nothing to suggest present promise as a team with form.

Not sure I agree with that comment. Edinburgh I would say are showing a lot of promise. Topping their HC pool and Scoring lots of tries thanks to an exciting, young backline.

Granted we had a terrible world cup but our Club teams are performing at their best for quite some time.

This is all about who AR picks. If he forgets his lifetime habit of picking on reputation and brings the likes of Denton, McInally, Harley, Laidlaw, Weir, Leonard, Scott, Jones, Thompson and Hogg into the squad and potentialy the match day 22 you'll see a Scotland team capable of crossing the white wash. Now wouldn't that be a sight?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:If I got a quid for every time Scotland were labled dark horses for the 6N I wouldn't be typing this at work.

My point Radge, is that Scotland are not being labelled as dark horses this time around.

That's exactly why I think that they could be the surprise team.

Quite possibly they could fail to beat Italy and beat everyone else. The underdogs tag suits all the both Scotland and Ireland.

Portnoy you are personally labelling Scotland as dark horses by saying they are under the radar and could be the surprise team.

This thread is building up Scotland as potential dark horses as usual.

yup. But that is only me. One person. Me.

And I fear an entirely underrated Scotland.

By fearing them you are not underrating Scotland. If anything you are building them up.

Scotland will keep the dark horses tag forever till they win the 6 nations.

Best to accept their capabilities and limitations.

You shouldn't fear anyone. Even the All Blacks.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:This is all about who AR picks. If he forgets his lifetime habit of picking on reputation and brings the likes of Denton, McInally, Harley, Laidlaw, Weir, Leonard, Scott, Jones, Thompson and Hogg into the squad and potentialy the match day 22 you'll see a Scotland team capable of crossing the white wash. Now wouldn't that be a sight?

Precisely, Radge, nail hit firmly on the head - it's all about selection. I personally expect Robbo to stick with known entities during the 6Ns (so don't expect to see many of the in-form youngsters getting game time), but would expect a much more interesting squad selection for the tour down under in the summer.

Therefore, no miracles likely in this year's 6Ns.

Radge/As, Way too coy.

You've no history of bigging up the Scots' 6Ns potential after promising summer/autumn?

I, for one, know that the Scots are dangerous when they are underestimated.

We'll see...

The problem with Scotland...is very simple...no creativity.

They have a strong pack that can match pretty much anyone. They secure good possession etc...however once they get in to areas that they should be scoring they seem to have noone capable of making that final pass or doing that little bit of magic....

Once they get that...they will be a strong side.

If Dan Parks does not get picked then Scotland may be a team who can be competative. If he does get picked then they may as well not turn up for the 6 nations.

Portnoy wrote:Radge/As, Way too coy.

You've no history of bigging up the Scots' 6Ns potential after promising summer/autumn?

I, for one, know that the Scots are dangerous when they are underestimated.

We'll see...

I have in the past, only to have my hopes and dreams crushed. After 3 or 4 seasons of false dawns and dark horses a gritty realism has taken a hold on me and reduced my expectations.

After playing France in the opening game of the 6N last year we were outclassed but showed some guts, skill and determination and made a game out of it. The week after I was walking up and down rose street trading banter with the Welsh lads who felt Scotland after their showing against France were in a prime position to give them a damn good pumping.

Then THIS (click here) happened. Pretty much all night I said to all the fans we were talking to that night that "As a Scotland fan, I should've known better!"

Scotland will be competative, beyond that I will not be drawn into another thread about Dark Horses and New Dawns for Scottish rugby. I'll be delighted to be proved wrong but too many times I have anticpated Scottish wins only to be drowning my sorrows in a bottle of Innis and Gunn on rose street.

GeordieFalcon

The players are there - just young and raw. If ( and its a big if) Robinson picks them it could be interesting

Scotland have played below their potential for awhile,I think this 6N will be very unpredictable but Scotland have a good draw

TJ wrote: GeordieFalcon

The players are there - just young and raw. If ( and its a big if) Robinson picks them it could be interesting

Scotland have played below their potential for awhile,I think this 6N will be very unpredictable but Scotland have a good draw

I think there comes a time when you simply need to say "put them in and give them a go"

It is the outstanding problem with the scottish team imo...and has been for some time. Get them in and play them!

I think Scotland could have a good go this year. You've got England at home and they'll be very vulnerable. Anything can happen in the 6 nations once you win a game or 2.
In fact i think England could do very badly this year i could easily see them losing to Scotland and then Italy both difficult away games.

So nobody is 'bigging up' Scotland which means (in Portnoy's mind) that they should be feared, therefore bigging them up, removing any need to fear them. Which in turn means that they should be feared as they are being underestimated..

Mind blown.

The unusual ways in which Portnoy's mind works!

Carpe Diem wrote:So nobody is 'bigging up' Scotland which means (in Portnoy's mind) that they should be feared, therefore bigging them up, removing any need to fear them. Which in turn means that they should be feared as they are being underestimated..

Mind blown.

It's all part of the plan to confuse the fans of both teams.

I'm not bigging the Picts up.

I'm just suggesting that they are at their most dangerous when they are below the horizon of expectation.

Has anyone mentioned the Sweaties as a dark horse this year?

(Unlike the past half-a-dozen seasons).

As, yes I do think laterally - and I don't go with the flow.
And I don't care.

Scot Abroad wrote:

It's all part of the plan to confuse the fans of both teams.

Which both Scot?

I thought it was the Six Nations -i.e. Scotland v Five others.

Carpe Diem well said

Portnoy apologies but you'll have to give me examples when Scotland have been at their most dangerous when below the horizon of expectation.

On a wet windy day in Murrayfield Scotland can't be underestimated against anyone bar the All Blacks.

You seem to be imply they are dark horses. You also say they should be a team to fear.

Has there ever really been any rational prospect of inflated achievement? Scotland are always under the radar.

No offence but why would anyone fear Scotland? It's ludicrous. Being wary of the possibility of an upset is fine but fear? Nope.

Alternatively why would anyone fear England?

I'm nearly always wary of the underestimated side. Tbh I wouldn't rule them incapable of beating us (Wales) in Cardiff next year when I remember how close they came in 2010. Top sides do not approach any opponent with dismissal in advance, the All Blacks to use one example are usually focused on whoever they play and don't often come out in perilous overconfidence. I'd rather bring my best game when not needed than leave it behind when needed.

Portnoy wrote:

Scot Abroad wrote:

It's all part of the plan to confuse the fans of both teams.

Which both Scot?

I thought it was the Six Nations -i.e. Scotland v Five others.

The Scottish and oposition fans on the day. Neither knows what to expect. This will happen 5 times.

So, you're afraid of Scotland because you're not afraid of Scotland.

In the words of Blythe from 'The Great Escape', "I can see perfectly..."

IanBru don't worry I can't quite understand Portnoy either. I do find his ramblings colourful and interesting though.

I think it's simple - no one knows what is going to happen in the 6 nations. Every team is an unknown quantity sort of.

Italy,England and France will have new coaches.

Are Wales as good as their world cup run would suggest?

What will Ireland do?

Will Scotland try to be more expansive and positive?

As an England fan I dread the Scotland vs England matches at Murrayfield.

I hope Andy Robinson picks a progressive side which is geared towards a more positive mindset.

Scotland just need to believe in themselves a bit more.

Underestimate a side and you are a fool. I have been a fool for underestimating sides. I think most of us have. Then again building up sides too much is wrong too.

The aim is to win and win well whoever you play.

I still predict Scotland to be in the top three.

What with the new regime in England (which I still see as a big mistake) and an experimental side in prospect and significant injuries now occurring, I'd say that the Scots have a great chance to get off to a flying start.

How did Wales rob Scotland ?

Hope you a right Portnoy but we have observed a cautious pool selected given how relatively well Glasgow and Edinburgh are playing. Danielli was rubbish when he was playing regularly and now he can't get into the Ulster 22 and Robinson apparently says he must force his way into the Ulster 15. Then why does this rule not apply to Johnny Beattie ? There are a lot running out of patience with the Bath vegetarian

Portnoy wrote:I still predict Scotland to be in the top three.

Disagree. I actually think Italy will do them again this year. Bottom finish for the Scots.

Don't think we'll lose to Italy this year. Our best chance for a second win is probably the first game. We have a good record against England at Murrayfield in recent times and whilst we'll have a relatively settled side, at least in the forwards, England are embarking upon a new regime and have some potentially key injuries with Lawes and Flood.

I think we'll beat England and Italy this year, but lose the rest. I'm tipping France to win the tournament now that they have a proper coach and I don't see us beating Gatland's Welsh team in Cardiff, or getting anything away in Ireland.

fES, ignore it, it's only Cyril - not worth the pixels you are seeing