The French Connection - Cerdan v Carpentier

A while ago, having spent a thoroughly enjoyable hour or so watching the great Marcel Cerdan, I wrote an article for the old forum and I reckoned it might be a good idea to reproduce it here, in order to get your views and insights concerning two of Europe's finest ever fighters.

It had been quite a while since I'd last dug out Cerdan's fights and, as always happens when I do dust them off to watch them, I found myself amazed by how good and complete a fighter he was. For whatever reason, I then began then to think about Georges Carpentier, and how a fight between the two might have turned out, and so I watched a couple or three Carpentier fights to try to form an opinion.

Although some contemporary accounts claim that Cerdan was an even better welter than he was middle his untimely death might yet have robbed us of the opportunity to see him at his very best. This seems almost incredible, since when he died he had already amassed a record of 110 fights, losing only four of them. Thankfully, there is enough surviving footage to enable us to have some idea of just how good he was.

In short, I think he was awesome.

At times resembling a polished Rocky Marciano, Cerdan seemed to never stop punching whether he was on the offensive or in retreat. His short hooks, particularly to the body, were withering, and he also possessed a fast and powerful overhand right which he seemed to be able to land with uncanny accuracy. At other times he could resemble Floyd Patterson ; bouncing around on his toes and suddenly leaping in with a left hook which seemed to be a forerunner of Patterson's ' Gazelle ' punch. As if all this would not be sufficient, Cerdan's attributes were topped off with a huge heart and immense courage, as amply displayed in the LaMotta fight. The night he wrested the title from the great Tony Zale Cerdan seemed to flick all the switches, and he unleashed the entire formidable arsenal in a wonderful performance.

Carpentier's career, of course, is the stuff of legend. A pro at age fourteen, he amassed European titles from welter all the way up to heavy, the European version of the middleweight championship of the world, the spurious ' white ' heavyweight championship of the world, and the bona fide lightheavyweight title. While some criticize him for falling a little short at the very highest level it shouldn't be forgotten that he often shared a ring with men bigger than he, and while it's not easy to shake off the images of his being brutally chopped down by Dempsey, ( after famously stunning Dempsey in the second round, ) his fight with Gene Tunney is quite instructive as to how good a fighter he really was. Despite being appreciably the smaller man Carpentier certainly gave Tunney a very decent fight until eventually being knocked out. Quick of hand and foot and very aggressive, Carpentier was able quite often to penetrate the Tunney defence and land some meaty looking punches, and when Tunney was dishing it out Georges proved himself to be extremely game and pretty tough to boot. Tunney was very aggressive in this fight and yet it took fifteen rounds to finally dispatch Carpentier.

Cerdan is widely regarded as a top ten middle of all time, and while Carpentier's stock has fallen over the years some still place him around the top fifteen lightheavies. The IBRO rank him 18th., which in a division as rich as the lightheavy is still very impressive.

I believe that we would have seen a fight for the ages between the two at SUPERMIDDLE, slap bang between their two respective world title - winning divisions. I see it as being a to and fro battle of speed, aggression, endurance and heavy hitting fought at a blistering pace and, without a great deal of conviction, I could see Cerdan's incredible stamina and volume of punches eventually winning the day by late stoppage.

What say you fellas ?

Two very good fighters who tend to get a little overlooked IMO, Carpentier as you rightly say for the Dempsey fight and Cerdan for the La Motta fight which remains in people's consciousness due to the film raging Bull.

Have a lot of time for Cerdan, brave as a bull, relentless but a lot cuter with his offensive work than he often gets credit for. Sod of a fight to call as both are quality but if for no other reason than the old boxing adage of a good big un beats a good little un would probably lean towards Carpentier. Whilst Cerdan's persistence would not suprise me were it the deciding factor struggle to see how a natural welter/middle carries enough strength to outlast a guy who went 15 with Tunney

Good point about Carpentier's going fifteen with Tunney, jeff, and especially so since Gene was uncharacteristically aggressive in that fight, throwing in a fair bit of rough stuff for good measure.

It's a mighty tough one to call, and I reckon it would have been an absolute thriller from start to finish.

I've never been sold on Carpentier to be honest and think he lives off his european titles though impressive never proved himself at world level except for that one night against Levinsky.

Terrific stuff, Windy. I'm a massive fan of Cerdan and his obviously in the bracket of fighters who talent was cut short tragically, if the crash never happened Cerdan would not have gone away in the division and would've had a period of dominance IMO. I know La Motta rated Cerdan as the best boxer he ever faced with the exception of Robinson. I think Cerdan is perhaps the most under rated middle of all time.He was a bull in the ring with good pressure and huge left hook the type that could have given the best middle weight version of Sugar Ray Robinson serious trouble IMO.

In addition to great power, chin, and aggressiveness, Cerdan had an advanced for of defense with a high guard.

Carpentier is a force of nature we all know, its a horrible one to call but Billy Papke proved good pressure can pay dividends against Carpentier, with no degree of certainty mate I 'd plump Cerdan by late stoppage or points.

No ratings on the new forum but 5* stuff.

Thanks very much Jimmy, both for the props and also for the insights. Ghosty, thanks for your input, also.

Would have to go for Cerdan, don't think the size difference between the two is that huge and Cerdan has more to his game

HumanWindmill wrote:Thanks very much Jimmy, both for the props and also for the insights. Ghosty, thanks for your input, also.

Cheers Windy, you're more than welcome mate.