What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

by Portnoy Wed 14 Dec 2011, 6:20 pm

First topic message reminder :

Richard Cockerill claims Andy Farrell's England coaching role could conflict with his job at Saracens.

Farrell, the Saracens first-team coach, will support England interim coach Stuart Lancaster in the Six Nations.

He is set to work with players such as Chris Ashton, who has been linked with a move to Saracens when his contract with Northampton expires next summer.

"Clearly there's a conflict there," said Cockerill, the director of rugby at Leicester.

"Chris Ashton gets to work with the Saracens head coach for eight weeks. The clubs weren't consulted about that.

"We don't know the parameters of what he [Farrell] is doing or not doing."

Cockerill insists he has "no problem" with Farrell's coaching credentials, but is keen for the game's governing bodies to clear up any misunderstanding over his role.

"He's a quality coach; a really good bloke - [I have] no issues with any of that," Cockerill added.

"Premier Rugby and the Rugby [Football] Union need to at least clarify the situation on what Farrell does."

Cockerill has also confirmed that Tigers have agreed terms with England international Dan Cole.

"The detail of it's done but it just have to be signed off by both parties legally," he said.

"We produced Dan, he's come through our academy, he's a local boy and we have to keep those players and we've done utmost to do that.

"He's happy with that, we're happy with that and hopefully we can get that signed off very soon."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/16187351.stm

OK, I'm no lover of the Saffacens, but that's just me.

What compelled Cockers to have such an open dig at Farrell?

by formerly known as Sam Thu 15 Dec 2011, 4:56 pm

To be fair Cockers probably has the hardest job in the AP. He's got a decent squad, which loses large numbers to international call ups, yet he is still expected to win. No wins mean no job and with the bad luck with injuries you can probably understand his frustration.

He's got to get a win this weekend after the disappointment of last Sunday. Tigers could still go on and win against Ulster and Arioni next year and qualify nicely. Doubt he'd use this as an excuse for the teams poor form anyway, more likely he's after PRL compensation from the RFU which will be split between the clubs as per previous agreements.

by yappysnap Thu 15 Dec 2011, 5:08 pm

Agree Sam, just wish he'd focus on the rugby and not the press somtimes. (Although I know as a coach he has to spend time with them). I just don't remember hearing him so much when they were flying in other seasons.

by beshocked Thu 15 Dec 2011, 5:13 pm

Sam I don't agree with you. The toughest job is at Newcastle. I think Tigers is one of the easiest. He has a decent squad as you say. Tigers have always qualified for the HC etc.

London Wasps would be a tough one. No money, proud club.

Bath is not nice because of the sugardaddy who expects results.

by **Ozzy3213** Thu 15 Dec 2011, 6:02 pm

How on earth have you come up with Cockers has the hardest job in the AP???

He has the biggest squad of any team in the AP with international players in every position, unswerving home support, a history of success that attracts players even if you can't pay quite top dollar and a decent enough budget to take the best upcoming talent from smaller sides.

If you can't make the play offs every year (which Tigers normally do) and the knockout stages of the Heino off the back of that then you have to have serious questions asked about you as a coach.

by Portnoy Thu 15 Dec 2011, 6:43 pm

beshocked wrote:speaking out of his mind? what does that even mean? Sorry Portnoy you'll need to explain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_twJ0hmeDB4

A man on the edge of a nervous breakdown poor soul.

by nathan Thu 15 Dec 2011, 9:26 pm

beshocked wrote:Sam I don't agree with you. The toughest job is at Newcastle. I think Tigers is one of the easiest. He has a decent squad as you say. Tigers have always qualified for the HC etc.

London Wasps would be a tough one. No money, proud club.

Bath is not nice because of the sugardaddy who expects results.

i don't agree with the Leicester job being the toughest, but it certainly wouldn't be the easiest! Your expected to win!! even without your internationals and umpteen injuries.

Just because theyv'e always qualified for the HC doesnt mean to say it's easy.

by Dubbelyew L Overate Thu 15 Dec 2011, 10:24 pm

Farrell has coached Saxons before with the same sort of access to the young england players. Nothing new, unless Leicester Saxons have reported back unfavourably to Cockers.

by beshocked Thu 15 Dec 2011, 10:26 pm

Portnoy wrote:
beshocked wrote:speaking out of his mind? what does that even mean? Sorry Portnoy you'll need to explain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_twJ0hmeDB4

A man on the edge of a nervous breakdown poor soul.

Here is the explanation for you Portnoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzZ2cf-3R7Q&feature=related

Brendan was parodying Mike Bassett England Manager.

by beshocked Thu 15 Dec 2011, 10:30 pm

nathan wrote:
beshocked wrote:Sam I don't agree with you. The toughest job is at Newcastle. I think Tigers is one of the easiest. He has a decent squad as you say. Tigers have always qualified for the HC etc.

London Wasps would be a tough one. No money, proud club.

Bath is not nice because of the sugardaddy who expects results.

i don't agree with the Leicester job being the toughest, but it certainly wouldn't be the easiest! Your expected to win!! even without your internationals and umpteen injuries.

Just because theyv'e always qualified for the HC doesnt mean to say it's easy.

I suppose you are right. The average Leicester fan expects Leicester to win even with internationals and umpteen injuries as you call it. Are maybe the fans putting the poor guy under too much pressure? Aww bless his cotton socks!

To be honest who are the contenders for the HC spots? Are 6 teams better than Leicester? The current league table and HC results don't really show any outstanding sides keeping Leicester from qualifying for the playoffs let alone HC spots.

by Time For Trumpton Fri 16 Dec 2011, 9:04 am

There may be coaching and tactical issues, however, I would say that losing 23 players to the World Cup and injury is more than worthy of mention when attempting to explain a dip in form. Or are teams supposed to deliver when missing half their squads?

by beshocked Fri 16 Dec 2011, 9:16 am

Time for Trumpton my point is that Cockerill should not feel under pressure when evidently he does!

In the Aviva Premiership Leicester are 2 points off 3rd. Leicester are still one of the only English sides who can qualify for the next round of the HC.

It's hardly a season of woe. You Leicester fans are surely realistic so why should it be difficult for Cockerill?

Yes you got beaten badly in Clermont. So what? Plenty of teams lose in their backyard. Win at home this weekend and you are still in the HC.

by formerly known as Sam Fri 16 Dec 2011, 10:15 am

Time for Trumpton my point is that Cockerill should not feel under pressure when evidently he does!

Well clearly he does for a reason. Tigers have crawled out of a poor start to the season when up to 23 players were missing and Cockerill was under fire. Now he knows that he needs a win in the HEC in order to stand a realistic chance of progression and on top of that he knows that he'll lose a minimum of Castro, Cole, Croft, Youngs, Flood and Manu to the 6N come the new year. There's always pressure on the Leicester manager.

Why is Falcons tough? You are expected to get relegated so anything above that is considered a success. Wasps is a toughy but no one expects them to do more than survive because everyone is aware of the financial hole they are in. Bath is a nightmare but as long as Geech qualifies for the HEC next year he's safe. Tigers are expected to bring home some silverware.

by Time For Trumpton Fri 16 Dec 2011, 10:21 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Time for Trumpton my point is that Cockerill should not feel under pressure when evidently he does!

Well clearly he does for a reason. Tigers have crawled out of a poor start to the season when up to 23 players were missing and Cockerill was under fire. Now he knows that he needs a win in the HEC in order to stand a realistic chance of progression and on top of that he knows that he'll lose a minimum of Castro, Cole, Croft, Youngs, Flood and Manu to the 6N come the new year. There's always pressure on the Leicester manager.

+1

I didn't think it was that difficult to understand, obviously I was wrong.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri 16 Dec 2011, 10:23 am

Dean Richards got sacked for a better season than this.
What you have to remebver with Cockerill as well is that he only got the job by accident, and theres a faction within the clubwho didnt want him to get the permanent job. As with Johnson for England it doesnt matter how well he does, there will be pressure on his position.

I wouldnt attribute these comments to any attempt to defelct attention or the pressure hes under though.

by **Ozzy3213** Fri 16 Dec 2011, 11:42 am

Time For Trumpton wrote:There may be coaching and tactical issues, however, I would say that losing 23 players to the World Cup and injury is more than worthy of mention when attempting to explain a dip in form. Or are teams supposed to deliver when missing half their squads?

Cos none of the other teams had players missing during the world cup or suffered injuries.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Fri 16 Dec 2011, 11:47 am

Ozzy3213 wrote:
Time For Trumpton wrote:There may be coaching and tactical issues, however, I would say that losing 23 players to the World Cup and injury is more than worthy of mention when attempting to explain a dip in form. Or are teams supposed to deliver when missing half their squads?

Cos none of the other teams had players missing during the world cup or suffered injuries.

Your right, Northampton have been as good this season as last too.....?

The point is it makes life very difficult for managers and coaches of these teams. They havbe to mantain two sides of first team players whilst bringing through youngsters and staying within the cap and having a first choice side capable of beating anyone. On top of that they then have to deal with agents and other clubs lookin to unsettle and poach their players with bigger contracts.
Yes it affects everyone, but some clubs are harder hit than others. The reason that Leeds had to employ Andy Key was that Neil Back simply couldnt cope with thats ide of things, its why we have DORs rather than just coaches at many clubs now. Cockerill is expected to do both jobs, its maybe something Tigers should look at....is he haireing and firfeing or is he picking and coaching the side? Which is he best suited to do?

Anyway I notice that the head of Saracens has struck back by saying " I like C0ck..." which is nice

http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2011-12/rugby/story/156147.html

by Time For Trumpton Fri 16 Dec 2011, 11:49 am

Ozzy3213 wrote:
Time For Trumpton wrote:There may be coaching and tactical issues, however, I would say that losing 23 players to the World Cup and injury is more than worthy of mention when attempting to explain a dip in form. Or are teams supposed to deliver when missing half their squads?

Cos none of the other teams had players missing during the world cup or suffered injuries.

Not 23 of them they didn't. Show me a team that did and you may have an argument, if you can't, you don't.

by **Ozzy3213** Fri 16 Dec 2011, 12:03 pm

Time For Trumpton wrote:
Ozzy3213 wrote:
Time For Trumpton wrote:There may be coaching and tactical issues, however, I would say that losing 23 players to the World Cup and injury is more than worthy of mention when attempting to explain a dip in form. Or are teams supposed to deliver when missing half their squads?

Cos none of the other teams had players missing during the world cup or suffered injuries.

Not 23 of them they didn't. Show me a team that did and you may have an argument, if you can't, you don't.

Show me a club with as big a senior squad and academy to select from and maybe you would have an argument. In terms of percentage of playing staff unavailable Tigers have been no worse off than many others. The 'all our best players were at the World Cup' argument is tiresome. We spend all year hearing that Anthony Allen should be England's 12, and Billy Twelvetrees can walk on water, then at the start of the season when results don't go your way, it is suddenly unfair that all of you best players are taken and the ones that are left are not up to standard.

It's actually a little pathetic and I have lost a lot of respect that I have always had for Tigers this season, particularly after our draw at Welford Road, where on the Tigers supporters forum no credit was given to us, and we were described as a 'disgrace to rugby' due to having a high penalty count against us.

We all understand that Tigers fans are used to success, but the lack of grace from many so far this season where Tigers have been below par, is something that I hadn't expected and have not liked to see.

by Time For Trumpton Fri 16 Dec 2011, 12:12 pm

Ah, a Not Nots fan, that explains a lot...

"Show me a club with as big a senior squad and academy to select from and maybe you would have an argument. In terms of percentage of playing staff unavailable Tigers have been no worse off than many others"

Prove it.

by formerly known as Sam Fri 16 Dec 2011, 12:12 pm

Show me a club with as big a senior squad and academy to select from and maybe you would have an argument. In terms of percentage of playing staff unavailable Tigers have been no worse off than many others.

Untrue, even the fabled depths of Tigers squad aren't that big anymore. There was a time when the first team numbered over 40 but that has gone. The academy players capable of stepping up are already in the first team squad and those that are left are the ones we put into the sevens. Everyone saw how ready they are.

where on the Tigers supporters forum

Most the threads on the Tigers forum are worth reading, except the match ones. Never read those, would be my advice. Having said that LI did spend the entire game offside but hey if Tigers could do it and force a decent result this weekend I wouldn't care.

by **LondonTiger** Fri 16 Dec 2011, 12:16 pm

Ozzy you really dissapoint me,

Very few tigers fans have been actually been demanding Allens inclusion - he is a decent 12 but if he was the best England had god help us.
It is not "unfair" that we lost players - but your continual denial that we were more affected than others is surely as pathetic as the behaviour you attribute to Tigers fans.

As to the drawn match - there were two disgraces, Tigers in failing to secure the win (great comeback by LI but should not have been allowed to happen) and the ref in allowing so many offences close to the line and only giving out one yellow card early on in the proceedings.

Posts like this make me wonder whether it is worth trying to discuss things here.

So I will let the children play (and go and pick my kids up from school) - and may return later.

by **Ozzy3213** Fri 16 Dec 2011, 12:25 pm

Senior squad - http://www.leicestertigers.com/rugby/leicester_tigers_senior_squad.php

46 players

Academy squad - http://www.leicestertigers.com/rugby/leicester_tigers_academy_squad.php

48 players

That is 94 players to select from.

As a comparison we have 36 senior players and 12 in the academy, 7 of whom have featured in the AP and HC this season,. Do you really want the percentages worked out Trumpton, or are you still going to be unwilling to accept you have a massive player pool to choose from?

by Portnoy Fri 16 Dec 2011, 12:33 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:Senior squad - http://www.leicestertigers.com/rugby/leicester_tigers_senior_squad.php

46 players

Academy squad - http://www.leicestertigers.com/rugby/leicester_tigers_academy_squad.php

48 players

That is 94 players to select from.

As a comparison we have 36 senior players and 12 in the academy, 7 of whom have featured in the AP and HC this season,. Do you really want the percentages worked out Trumpton, or are you still going to be unwilling to accept you have a massive player pool to choose from?

Is it not about affordability Oz?

I have just scribed a post about what the Jeff's purpose is. Should it be about hamstringing the wealthy or protecting the poor?

by Time For Trumpton Fri 16 Dec 2011, 12:34 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:

As a comparison we have 36 senior players and 12 in the academy, 7 of whom have featured in the AP and HC this season?

Probably because nobody in their right mind would want to play for such a mediocre side.

You can work out the percentages if you like.

Show all your working.

N.B. Extra marks will be given for creative content.

by Comfort Fri 16 Dec 2011, 12:36 pm

Portnoy, a good question, and no doubt down to affordability, but it takes nothing away from the fact that Ozzy is absolutely right in his point quoted.

by **Ozzy3213** Fri 16 Dec 2011, 12:39 pm

Mediocre side that you just weren't quite good enough to beat at home this year eh Trumpton?

clap

well done for getting down to the insults so early.

by Portnoy Fri 16 Dec 2011, 12:39 pm

Time For Trumpton wrote:
Ozzy3213 wrote:

As a comparison we have 36 senior players and 12 in the academy, 7 of whom have featured in the AP and HC this season?

Probably because nobody in their right mind would want to play for such a mediocre side.

You can work out the percentages if you like.

Show all your working.

N.B. Extra marks will be given for creative content.

Do not.

DO NOT diss Ozzy.

He is a fine and fair poster. He and I may disagree on stuff - but his contributions are worthy of total respect.

by Time For Trumpton Fri 16 Dec 2011, 12:51 pm

And therefore, so are mine.

What he is implying is that Richard Cockerill has no right to state that the number of players his squad lost for various reasons has affected the team's early season results.

Terribly sorry, but its a perfectly valid argument, it just happens to be one thats upset him. Jealously is a terrible thing...

It doesn't bother me actually, because when the supporter of a club that celebrates a draw at Welford Rd like winning the League starts using a stick like Cockerills complaints to beat you with, you know they've already conceded to schadenfeuder.

by Portnoy Fri 16 Dec 2011, 12:59 pm

It is a valid comment. I'm not sure that Oz sees it as jealousy.

As a fan of the Tigers (just as he is of LI), I'd be celebrating had we produced a shock turnaround away against a supposedly indomitable home side when their players had returned from the RWC.

by formerly known as Sam Fri 16 Dec 2011, 1:57 pm

That is 94 players to select from

No it isn't. It would be neither safe nor ethical to ask the majority of those academy players to play in an AP game. With the exception of Rawling and maybe Lynn they are no where close to being old or experienced enough to play for the first team. It would generate a massive risk of serious injury that could end a young man's career. A quick run through of the first team I would estimate at least half of those were unavailable for some of if not all of the opening 6 weeks of the season.

Trumpton, no need for name calling. Argue, debate and by all means disagree but let's not start the verbals.

by Time For Trumpton Fri 23 Dec 2011, 6:11 pm

Verbals?

Do pull yourself together. Of course, I suppose its perfectly acceptable for a moderator to come on here and use a thinly veiled dislike of Tigers/Cockerill to voice ill informed opinion?

Er, no, I didn't think so.

by Knackeredknees Sat 24 Dec 2011, 8:30 am

Just to get back on topic......
On both HC weekends the Sarries coaching team were praised for doing their home work on the Ospreys and the gameplan,players etc..
Now last time i looked Andy Farrell didn't have access to any of their players. If Sarries wanted to look at a player it's not hard to get enough video footage

Yes i know no one like us and want to have a dig about anything they can (or just make it up) because were winning, if we und up in mid-table again we wont be worth a mention and everyone can go back to hating whoever is winning( thou i dont expect Quins to have this much vitrol aimed at them if they win this year)

by **Ozzy3213** Sat 24 Dec 2011, 10:20 am

Time For Trumpton wrote:Verbals?

Do pull yourself together. Of course, I suppose its perfectly acceptable for a moderator to come on here and use a thinly veiled dislike of Tigers/Cockerill to voice ill informed opinion?

Er, no, I didn't think so.

Do you want some fish to go with that chip on your glenohumeral joint fella?

Merry Christmas What's Cockerill's hidden agenda? - Page 2 3513163098

by Time For Trumpton Wed 04 Jan 2012, 12:39 pm

Ozzy3213 wrote:
Time For Trumpton wrote:Verbals?

Do pull yourself together. Of course, I suppose its perfectly acceptable for a moderator to come on here and use a thinly veiled dislike of Tigers/Cockerill to voice ill informed opinion?

Er, no, I didn't think so.

Do you want some fish to go with that chip on your glenohumeral joint fella?

Merry Christmas

Thats the most obvious case of the pot calling the kettle black i've seen on 606v2.

Happy New Year

by Sponsored content

What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?

Re: What's Cockerill's hidden agenda?