IRFU NIE player management, what this means for other PRO 12 teams?

We have a thread on how the new IRFU rules will effect the Provinces, but this thread is about what you think it will mean to the other teams in the Pro 12?

Do you think this weaken the Provinces giving the likes of Glasgow, Scarlets etc a better chance of winning the League. Will it make the league more competative and hence better. With better chances of beating Leinster Munster and Ulster will it attract bigger crowds etc etc.

Just a general view of what the changes could mean to your team, if any?

Kingshu, it's been interesting reading the other thread and getting the Irish perspective on the changes. The majority of Irish posters seem to think that the changes are a terrible idea, altho Sin (bless his cottons, that lad could argue with his shadow) has come up with a slight counter to the general trend. There's no question in my mind that anything that weakens the provinces themselves (setting aside the fact that Connacht have been exempted) weakens the league as well, and subtlely weakens the position of he other teams in the league too. But tbh, I'm still trying to get my head fully round the implications - on the surface it does appear to be an entirely bizarre move, with a system that has been working well and not really in need of fixing at all - but I'm worrying that we're all missing something here and maybe Sin is right?

Ummm, perhaps it might weaken the league. I guess maybe a bit but I wouldn't say catastrophically so. Don't actually think it'll make that much of a difference to be perfectly honest. Perhaps will make it a bit more competitive, but honestly I can't see too much changing!

And I'm with As here, don't really get all the implications of it all myself. One thing I will say though, is that a while back I remember a lot of Irish posters worrying about the lack of props coming through for Ireland, and citing the fact that a lot of the positions were filled with NIQ players as being the reason. Won't the changes proposed mean that this won't be a problem any longer?? (I could be getting it very wrong though)

No dreamer you’re correct, we were all sweating bullets because we pretty much only had Horan and Hayes. But that just magically seems to have fixed itself! I suppose these measures, good or bad, will mean that provinces will try to hang onto their players longer, but if they did that then Mike Ross wouldn’t have gotten schooled in the scrum by Dean Richards and might not be up to the standard he is at today.

hmmm well I guess the changes in themselves aren't so bad then, although the wording leaves a lot to be desired!

One thing that can't be forgotten though is the benefit foreign players bring to our league. Players for the Welsh regions such as Lyons, King, Rush, Hollah etc were all hugely beneficial and really helped to upp the standard. Sure put a limit on them, but I still think they're needed.

It could have a negative impact if not immediately, then further down the line, for the Pro12 if we don't have senior players with great experience getting a look in in the league to help teach and mentor up and coming home grown players, but then again I see where the IRFU are coming from in that we don't want too many, taking over key positions! Just not sure how they've gone about it, is actually going to be able to be implemented realistically.

It will weaken the Irish squads a bit. But surely the first foreigners to be dumped will be the mediocre ones anyway, who'll just be replaced by mediocre Irish players or young talents who aren't up to speed yet.

Scarlets were already forced to produce local players because of lack of money. It has reaped some rewards for then and the Welsh team. But they haven't developed the formidable squad depth of Leinster or Munster. But I'm not sure if Ulster and Munster can compete on all fronts without foreign players. Leinster probably already can.

Maybe the IRFU know this and will prevent Leinster from making foreign signings and allow Munster and Ulster to make up the quota.

Mickado wrote:No dreamer you’re correct, we were all sweating bullets because we pretty much only had Horan and Hayes. But that just magically seems to have fixed itself! I suppose these measures, good or bad, will mean that provinces will try to hang onto their players longer, but if they did that then Mike Ross wouldn’t have gotten schooled in the scrum by Dean Richards and might not be up to the standard he is at today.

Different situation - it wasn't a NIQ player holding Ross back in Munster.

It will probably mean though, that if provinces are lacking in a particular position, they will need to start looking at the other 4 provinces reserves first. While Ross was over getting coached in England, Leinster were waving their cheque book (CJ, Ollie and then Stan). Even when Ross came back, he was stuck behind a NIQ player for a season.

The IRFU has always gone down the route of keeping Irish players in Ireland and we're glad they have. This is just going further in that direction. The IRFU believe that if they have the right coaches in Ireland, there's no reason they can't coach props better here than they would be in England.

The IRFU has always been inward looking and dictatorial, but also very confident in itself and Irish rugby. The type of self confidence that can only be acquired by being a rugby jock at a posh boarding school.

Ah Feckless, set the chip down there for a moment, its Christmas after all.

The IRFU was the most inward & backward and self serving organisation, once upon a time. Then when the professional game was thrust upon them unwillingly, there Carpe Diem the poo out of the situation and pretty much every day since then has been one of upward trend in terms of on & off field success for both national team and the provinces. Are they perfect, no. But then again, no organisation is and we need only look across a very narrow channel of water and see how three other Unions charged with the same responsibilties have failed to match the systemic success of the IRFU.

So credit where credit is due. And it isn't just the system, the attictude has changed within the IRFU too in respect of how players are treated and the understanding of welfare issues both on and off the field and how they interact in a very constructive fashion with IRUPU & WADA in terms of the external factors & ramifications of professional sport and the responsibilties of Union, players' Union, coaches, provinces & players themselves.

The negaties are the decline in the AIL & the associated clubs. Sadly inevitable in the pro era if you want to keep a game sustainable. Fiscal rectitude & sensible expenditure levels have ensure that the provincial game & national teams are both competetive on the fiel, while in the black off it. Sort of elements to growing/ensuring the game survives.

The rewards?

5 HC Titles, 6 ML Titles one 6Nations Title (inc Grand Slam) and a sustained winning ratio never seen before in Irish rugby. I'd call that a pretty frickin' awesome return.

So that self confidence wasn't completely misplaced was it?

As for this new initiative, well it is certainly restrictive, esp effectivly sharing team sheets prior to announcments etc, that'll be fun for the coaches! But the underlying intent is clearly to field as close as is possible teams that are nearly all Irish Eligable. A postive goal in my eyes, esp with the 18 month period before the player contracts are restricted and consideration is paid to those players who are under contract before and after it comes int o effect. Sensible play there too.

If teams want to adapt and remain competetive, then they can be clever now, and throw their young guys in for this and next season more often then they had previously planned so as to expose them to a step or two up in difficulty and not have to rely on a guy with a mere handful of games when the times comes that they are obliged to do so.

Feckless Rogue wrote: But surely the first foreigners to be dumped will be the mediocre ones anyway

Don't think so the first ones to go will be those where there are more than 1 NIE player in the same position.
They are oftern top players e.g.

As Afoa has a contract in 2013-14 all other NIE TH's will have to leave including Botha
As Payne has the same all other 15's wil lhave to leave including Nacewa

I think that the Provinces will drop in performance level, lowing the standard of the league, however it will make it closer for the other teams, and may improve viewing figures for them, as teams like Glasgow who could get a top 4 place but don't really have a hope of winning it, would have an improved chance of winning it.

But when it comes to getting new sponsorship could it be a hindrince?