Novak Djokovic BBC Overseas SPOTY 2011

I don't think Vettel and Messi stood a chance:-

http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2011/12/Features/Djokovic-Wins-BBC-Award.aspx

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/sports_personality/16031387.stm

Congratulations to Novak this year.

Saw it on BBC yesterday. Fantastic achievement. Hope he still sees 2012 as a challenge rather than become complacent.

A good "win" for Nole....and as if he needed another trophy in 2011, lol.

I find it bizarre to have a great tennis champion shortsighted. Just my view though.

Well deserved award.

Overseas SPOTY has basically become "Tennis Champion"

Well done to Djokovic for keeping it going.

It seems to me that Sebastian Vettel was more dominant in Formula One than Novak Djokovic was in Mens singles tennis ... but Tennis trumps Formula One.

It can be said that Nole Is The Best.

Yes, I'd have given it to Vettel.

He's not just the best of his time but he could well be one of the best ever. Plus he is a really funny guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-S5VKAP3vk

Vettel achieved 15 Pole positions (out of a possible 19), he won 11 races, came 2nd in 5 races, and in the remaining three races he had one third place, one fourth place and one did not finish. Hence he was on the podium for 17 out of the 19 races. He became the youngest ever double World champion in formula one, he broke the record for number of pole positions in a season, and he was second only to Michael Schumacher for most number of wins in a season.

Vettel deserved a shout, but for some reason I can't shake off the idea that a lot of F1 is down to the car. Certainly no one can argue that Novak didn't have a remarkable year, and for me he fully deserves the award.

Essentially there is far less competition in F1 drivers than there is in tennis.

There's less competition actually in F1, but there's incredible competition to get into it.

I mean, mega wages like that are rarely paid unless all other options have been exhausted, and a lot more people fancy driving fast than play tennis.

But they are picked from a smaller pool of racers. Not many kids can afford the money to train karting. I don't know many in my neighbourhood.

True, neither sport is particularly Universal in participation.

The most naturally talented tennis player ever has probably not picked up a racquet.

bogbrush wrote:True, neither sport is particularly Universal in participation.

The most naturally talented tennis player ever has probably not picked up a racquet.

Does Babolat not count?

bogbrush wrote:True, neither sport is particularly Universal in participation.

The most naturally talented tennis player ever has probably not picked up a racquet.

Good point.....unless we believe that naturally talented racquet players would find a way to pick up a racquet.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Mozart had a musician father....in a world there was so few of them.

Tenez wrote:

bogbrush wrote:True, neither sport is particularly Universal in participation.

The most naturally talented tennis player ever has probably not picked up a racquet.

Good point.....unless we believe that naturally talented racquet players would find a way to pick up a racquet.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Mozart had a musician father....in a world there was so few of them.

Maybe he lives in Tibet and is a whizz at Yak racing or something

Or perhaps, given the Mozart example, I'm wrong at the talent only manifests with use. In which case we know who the most talented player ever is, and he's trying for his 17th Slam in a few weeks!

I vaguely remember reading about an American junior player who would regularly brush aside Sampras and Agassi without breaking sweat. He was already being hailed as potentially the greatest ever player when he had to give up the game with a bad back at 17, or something like that.
Wish I could remember his name.

From what i read talent depends on the cerebral cortex. In this part of the brain the quality of our processor is determined. The difference between a top player and a mediocre player is the speed of information processing (cortex). In other words, it doesn't matter which sport a person with a "special cortex" chooses, he'll excel anyway.

And of course there's the 10x10 rule: 10 years, 10 hours of practice every week started at a very young age, and you'll be fine whatever you do

T, this is your specialism, right?

Indeedy BB. I do believe some of us are born with a mission. There is nothing left to luck for them!

You and me were born to make v2 one of the best tennis forum.

gallery play wrote:From what i read talent depends on the cerebral cortex. In this part of the brain the quality of our processor is determined. The difference between a top player and a mediocre player is the speed of information processing (cortex). In other words, it doesn't matter which sport a person with a "special cortex" chooses, he'll excel anyway.

And of course there's the 10x10 rule: 10 years, 10 hours of practice every week started at a very young age, and you'll be fine whatever you do

T, this is your specialism, right?

Yes GP as I studied it, the "cerebelleum" (more than the cortex itself) is indeed the centre of mouvement coordination and you are right that the speed of processing info is what it's all about when playing a racquet sport. But I am sure that some are specialised in some sports more than others. the build of a player his sight, his space awareness (cortex) etc plays different roles making you more or less good at a specific sport.

I don't think for instance that Federer would have been the best footballer ever. In fact he may have as his footwork is also excellent but I doubt that the best footballer ever may be as skilled with his hands and thereforee would have been the best tennis player. But again yes some are better at sports than others.

A Dutch neuropsychologist (Erik Matser, really fund of the media btw) even said that if Maradona was born in Vienna he could have become a great conductor..
It's an intriguing idea tough

gallery play wrote:A Dutch neuropsychologist (Erik Matser, really fund of the media btw) even said that if Maradona was born in Vienna he could have become a great conductor..
It's an intriguing idea tough

yes interesting though I am surprised by this. I think some have rhythm (timing) and certainly that helps while stricking a ball with the foot or a racquet or even play the music. Noah and McEnroe for instance are apparent;y good musicians but we all agree there are much better one out there and I am pretty convinced there woudl have been better musicians even if Mc and Noah had learnt and played music since they were born.

Talking about my experience for instance, I have been much better at tennis/pingpong than at football for instance. Not even close though I started to kick a ball first.

There are also the higher level overlays on top of basic cerebral functioning/processing, such as being able to deal with negative situations (repressive coping), being able to stay in the moment/focus (hypnotic susceptibility) and ability to handle pressure points (neuroticism)...all the best players in any sport are good at this.

Its no good being able to process information quicker than others, if you cant perform under real world situations and against an opponent who is pushing your ability to process information at set-point down.

What was the name GP of that gerat dutch player playing for Arsenal (I think ) with the fear of flying? he certainly had feet as "nervy" as hands.

Bergkamp.

That's it!

Dennis!
Is having nervy feet a good think T? Because he's probably my favorite football player of all time (i know, it's a sentimental pick). Never scored an ugly goal.
Not only he made it look easy, he made impossible things look easy.

Exactly. I don't much about football but once again I can recognise talent when I see it. "nervy" feet means his feet were as sensitive as an elephant trunk. He could caress the ball and control beautifully. I liked the fact he was a "nervy" flyer like me! Well I wasn;t as bad fortunately cause I flew a lot in my life.

Ha, it's true, only an elephant trunk could handle a football like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IicmCu47pMo

Tenez wrote:Essentially there is far less competition in F1 drivers than there is in tennis.

But you and some others have been telling us for some time now that we live in a weak era for Tennis talent, where the sport is dominated by a few individuals with incredible physical strength, stamina and rule breaking abilities of the time between points rule. Because of this dependence on physicality some have even suggested that the fuel used to power these human machines may not be totally above board.

In the SPOTY of 2011 broadcast, John McEnroe (and David Haye) showcased Andy Murrays achievements of the year. John McEnroe said that professional Tennis nowadays was rather like a game of "ping-pong". Maybe someone could discusss what he meant by this on another thread. For me ping-pong is dominated by behind the baseline rallying (slogging) with ferrocious levels of top spin.

I also note that of the ten sportsmen nominated for the home SPOTY award, only Andy Murray didn't attend the show. Furthermore he didn't even appear in a live studio link in the show. Novak Djokovic did seem to appear in a studio live link (from Belgrade?) when accepting his award.

It is generally agreed that Mark Cavendish was the deserved winner of the 2011 SPOTY award. But surely you don't need to be "talented" to do well in cycling as compared to how some say Federer is talented in the sport of Tennis. Surely to be a great cyclist you mainly just need to have great physical strength and stamina, similar to say Nadal or Djokovic? Perhaps someone could start a separate thread to discuss this.

Nore Staat wrote: In the SPOTY of 2011 broadcast, John McEnroe (and David Haye) showcased Andy Murrays achievements of the year. John McEnroe said that professional Tennis nowadays was rather like a game of "ping-pong". Maybe someone could discusss what he meant by this on another thread. For me ping-pong is dominated by behind the baseline rallying (slogging) with ferrocious levels of top spin.
I also note that of the ten sportsmen nominated for the home SPOTY award, only Andy Murray didn't attend the show. Furthermore he didn't even appear in a live studio link in the show. Novak Djokovic did seem to appear in a studio live link (from Belgrade?) when accepting his award.

It's not a novel observation; my friends and I have been saying this for a few years now. Your summary is perfect, and describes the current game very well.

Nore Staat wrote:

Tenez wrote:Essentially there is far less competition in F1 drivers than there is in tennis.

But you and some others have been telling us for some time now that we live in a weak era for Tennis talent, where the sport is dominated by a few individuals with incredible physical strength, stamina and rule breaking abilities of the time between points rule. Because of this dependence on physicality some have even suggested that the fuel used to power these human machines may not be totally above board.

Don't mix up everything NS. I never said we live in a weak era of talent. What I say is that we live in a very physical era where talent plays a much lesser role. I do believe there are very talented young players out there but until they build themselves a body like Nadal and Djoko their talent is completely useless, at least to allow them to win slams where physique is even more important. This is why even someone as talented as Federer (no shrimp himself) has not won a slam in 2 years.

Nore Staat wrote:It is generally agreed that Mark Cavendish was the deserved winner of the 2011 SPOTY award. But surely you don't need to be "talented" to do well in cycling as compared to how some say Federer is talented in the sport of Tennis. Surely to be a great cyclist you mainly just need to have great physical strength and stamina, similar to say Nadal or Djokovic? Perhaps someone could start a separate thread to discuss this.

Not a specialist but those who cycle can easily recognise a talented cyclist. I can remember Indurain for instance and there was something quite smooth and train like when he was cycling. However I agree that nowadays physical power must have an even biggest impact in cycling than it has in tennis.

But natural physique, especially in sport, should be rewarded too.

My problem is that nowadays no-one knows what is "natural" physique.