French flair

Of those yet to win one, France are surely the most deserving team to win a World Cup. They are one of my favourite teams to watch in world rugby even though they have often provided AB fans with heartbreak. Yet that is the very reason why they are so compelling to watch. You never feel comfortable about the game until the final whistle is over.

But people talk about French flair. Certainly there are many examples of amazing French tries. Here is a video tha attests to that flair:

The thing I take from that video is the game built around French strengths. Traditionally, the French have a big pack capable of bruising defence like Dusatoir or Betsen but also capable of speed to the breakdown and support like Magne. Then the tall timber and powerful front row forwards who can drive in and get front foot ball or who can get vital turnover.

Then in the backs you have silky runners in the middle like Sella or Jauzion who are able to straighten things up or link out wide to the nippy players. But usually there is a guy with electric pace out on the wing who is able to carve up defences or simply outpace them to the tryline.

Of course it is not as simple as that. When the French are at their most dangerous in my view and often where the French flair comes from, is from broken play. What the French have is an awareness of space. Look at that try against Australia in the 87 World Cup. They never panic. They´re like an experienced surfer going with the momentum but ever mindful of the changing nature of the wave they're riding and they know instinctively when to stop tracking on a certain path and exploit a new area to keep moving forward. They know their strengths and ruthlessly work together to exploit those strengths.

My question to you though is the professional era has made defence more vital. You look at the way the French played in 99 and the way they played in 2007 and 2011 against the ABs, there seemed a definite change in gameplan. Now that might be the players they had and the players they faced. It might be that they faced an AB team that offered up more mistakes on attack allowing them to exploit more the opportunities in broken play. But in 99, when they were down 24-10, two drop goals from La Maison got them back in the game. Then the kind bounce to Dominici and his electric pace got them ahead, the La Maison chip to Dourthe and Magne´s kicks ahead for Bernat-Salles to capitalise on. To me a mixture of the same strengths of French rugby: calculating the best option, front foot ball from the forwards who towered in the rucks won and masters of making the most of their advantages.

But when was the last time you saw France really open up like in these videos. The Slam they won was a team of clinical, calculating power more than French flair. Is this an indication that their forwards and defence are becoming more of a strength of French rugby and that France is finding it more difficult to unearth those wiry speedsters that could take the game away from you? Is it an indication that the game has changed and so too the French mentality towards it? Or is this French flair a myth and they have always been a team based more on forward play rather than back play?

What do you think?

Wow, now that was a video full of great memories

They are such an amazing side to watch in full flow arent they

I think the 'French flair' has always been more due to attitude than personnel. The cornerstone of their game has ever been a dominant, dynamic pack with a petit general SH/FH at 9 (surely one of the greatest lists of successive players here, J-P Elissalde being my personal favourite), then just the devil-may-care attitude to turn it on when the mood takes them.

In players like Medard, Mermoz, Malzieu, Clerc, Rougerie, David & Palisson they still have very damaging midfield and outside back runners, and it'll be interesting to see how the new coach Saint-Andre shapes them as I feel the last two coaches Laporte & Lievremont definitely took a more practical approach at times, their very good defensive coach Ellis who has been with them for 11 years (and I hope will now come back home to England) also playing a large part in that.

They most certainly are eirebilly. They have equally been a destructive force on defence. We all talk about Lomu as a player who could swing a match but Dusatoir seems even more influential with his ability on defence and all-round game. Pocock has an unrivalled ability to steal ball (Broussow has been too injured) but still needs to work on other aspects of the game. Dusatoir has it all and his efforts notably lift his side. A phenomenal player. But not one associated with flair. Where have the Dominicis, the Ntmacks or the silky centres gone? Rougerie is a fine player but his game is based more on power.

Ellis has certainly done a fine job for them niwatts and England would be a seriously dangerous team if they operated in defence like France has done in recent times.

Certainly the players you mention like Medard et al mostly fit the bill of wiry speedsters and maybe, like you mention, their limited strike power in test rugby can be attributed to the coaching style of Laporte and Lievremont. So it will be very interesting to see if Saint-André implements a more integrative approach and places less emphasis on the defensive area of the game.

Well there also is the requirements now of necessity. In the older days of fleet footed genius, the French COULD try things and didn't much care if they came off or not, as they knew they'd give themselves a few more chances by the end of the game. They were free in mind and body and therefore more loose and fluid in movement and chances taken. The 'flair' in itself was embellished by the lack of fear.

Why the lack of fear though? Well, to a large extent they knew they were the counter-attacking masters and that most teams they met, certainly in the Northern hemisphere, weren't dangerous enough to threaten them much in that area. They could loosen up and stretch out and take risks because they weren't too concerned about the potential of counter-surges if the risks didn't come off. That belief perpetuated even greater self confidence, which in turn aided handling skills and forward thinking.

Now that most professional sides can effectively counter-attack if spills come their way, the French not only have to become less exuberant in themselves, but also that very fear of an effective tackle or counter-attack inhibits their risk taking; their attacks becoming less fluid and they exhibit overall less 'ball-sticking-to-the-hands' assuredness.

But French flair hasn't gone away, others have simply crept up on them. I think it's the progress of other sides in the professional era that is limiting French flair and not that the 'flair' gene has suddenly vanished from the French populace.

Interesting post SecretFly. You may well have something with the lack of fear. But I tend to think the lack of fear comes more from confidence.

France have been on the back of some hidings by the big 3 in the SH and England in recent memory too. Often they come back into the game and start to play better when the match has well and truly been taken away from them. But yet more often than not they come back in the form of their forwards.

When France are at their most dangerous is when they´re playing well (i.e. the forwards are doing their job and giving a good platform for the backs) and that confidence makes them more adventurous and they start to open up in open and broken play. But keep them honest in the forwards and they tend to retreat within themselves and their backline becomes static and predictable.

We're not talking about the same players or coaches now so it's not surprising that sides play differently. I don't think "French Flair" is a myth as such, but just that it belongs in a certain time, but may yet come again.

It's like "England Up-The-Jumper", "The Welsh Way" and "All Pacific Island Players Tackle Your Head" styles. There is some truth in the description, but it's not a constant thing (and often a lazy generalisation) and it's sometimes a little unfair to compare a current team with a previous generation.

Good point SafeAsMilk. Every team has their specific strengths that tend to be more or less stable but different players - the current French team has many similarities with the French teams of the past in terms of their characteristics though - different laws and different innovations dominating in the game tend to constantly tinker with that.

The PI teams are a good example as they have lost their sevens approach to the game and have in place a lot more structure in the set piece. But their love of open play or aggressive defence haven´t diminished. Hopefully Saint-André can swing things back a little to a more dynamic play in the backs. That of course is only possible when the French pack are allowed to get on top. They certainly have the players to do that and injured players like Servat were sorely missed in the World Cup.

What's scary is that the French now know that they can play with inspired defence as well as attack. I've seen them beat my beloved All Blacks with the storied panache and flair a few times, but 2007 gave me such admiration for their defence and the fear that man they really have it all when they turn up. I'd love for them to be more consistent in playing like that as it would set a benchmark for us all to follow-it would give greater satisfaction to every team that would beat them too.

Richie McCaw has had the moniker 'Captain Tackles' for a while now. I think this should be given to Dusautoir actually-he makes more tackles than McCaw in an average game. Don't get me wrong, I love McCaw and think him and Michael Jones are the two greatest 7s to play the game, but his strength is at the breakdown. Meaning he isn't the one making the tackle but he's the next there turning the ball over. I think this is why Dusautoir hasn't made headlines for his pilfering ability-he's always the tackler thus is out of the game come ruck time. Just trying to imagine him playing with Brussow or Pocock in the same team-wow.

A team can have all the flair in the World,but its worth diddly squat if your forward pack is being smashed by a couple of big serious Tongans.

aucklandlaurie wrote: A team can have all the flair in the World,but its worth diddly squat if your forward pack is being smashed by a couple of big serious Tongans.

Especially if those Tongans are playing for New Zealand

Dunno about that Safe, the Frogs play against the ABs a hell of a lot better than they play against Tonga!

True enough disney!

The French players say they fear the ABs and that fear drives them to lift their game. Too often though against other sides, the French drop their standards. e.g. Last year in Italy, against Australia, against England, against Tonga and so on.

They can use their flair against other nations. Why can´t they be rocks on defence against all other sides as well?!

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:They can use their flair against other nations. Why can´t they be rocks on defence against all other sides as well?!

Yeah, it's one of the weird and fascinating (and frustrating!) things about sport. England fans often wonder why we can beat the French fairly often and yet struggle against Ireland who the French beat nearly every time! Fear factor, history, playing styles, attitude etc all play a part.

Yes the paper rock scissors warfare is a fascinating one. Ireland with the cutting thrust of scissors cuts through the all-enveloping paper of England but gets dashed against the rock hard defence of France. But France in turn get suffocated by the smothering paper defence of England and can´t get into the game.

The trouble with France against the ABs is that they can be paper, rocks or scissors or all three at the same time. It´s not until it´s too late sometimes when you find out which one you´re playing!

Sometimes France can smash you with the rock and then slice you open with the scissors while the paper mops up what's left.

Or their papery resistance can be cut into little pieces by their own scissors and blow away in the breeze before resting under a large rock of inconsistency.

Eddie Butler

SafeAsMilk wrote:Sometimes France can smash you with the rock and then slice you open with the scissors while the paper mops up what's left.

Or their papery resistance can be cut into little pieces by their own scissors and blow away in the breeze before resting under a large rock of inconsistency.

Eddie Butler

great vid kia.

i have always love watching them before the pro era and during. what is striking from that video is there offloading and support play was ahead of their time.

it is no co incidence that new zealand and france were in the world cup final. their support of the runner is different gravy to other nations and it is inbuilt in the way they play. also great to see wingers with real footwork. some still exist but there are a lot more bludgeons around playing wing.

the english and irish press have a tendency to demonise the "flaky french" but statistically they are the best team in the Northern Hemisphere despite having not won a world cup. even in

the last world cup france were a joke a shambles you name it. Yes they lost to Tonga but they turned it on when they needed to and had the ability to create a score out of nothing. It was hardly like Ireland and England were running in trys from everywhere.

God bless the French. Always provide great entertainment

... France SOMETIMES produce great entertainment... and there's the English and Irish (and the New Zealand and Australian and South African and Welsh) press proven correct in their reading. France are by no means Always entertaining... or even good. That's the conundrum, that's the 'flaky'ness.

I would contend that France are the mentally frailest of all the test nations. Get on top of them and their heart´s not in it. They don´t just lose, they get thrashed. They throw in the towel and their bad defeats are comprehensive not only in terms of points but in terms of performance.

But when they are in with a sniff, or when they feel like they´re on top mentally, that to me is when the flair comes out and that´s when they´re unstoppable. That for me is why they are both the hot and cold tap of rugby. Get their confidence growing and it´s like feeding gremlins after midnight and trying to contain them. Get on top of them and show them who´s boss and the fiercest of guard dogs become the meekest of lambs for slaughter. How about that for a Butlerism SafeasMilk!

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:But when they are in with a sniff, or when they feel like they´re on top mentally, that to me is when the flair comes out and that´s when they´re unstoppable. That for me is why they are both the hot and cold tap of rugby. Get their confidence growing and it´s like feeding gremlins after midnight and trying to contain them. Get on top of them and show them who´s boss and the fiercest of guard dogs become the meekest of lambs for slaughter. How about that for a Butlerism SafeasMilk!

hahahaha all true but they have still won more 6 nations than anyone else since its inception so despite their flaws they are successful if flakey. its a while since they have been beaten out the gate at international level. granted their clubs in the HC do like to roll over away from home.

strangely in the world cup they only turned on the flair in small bursts but it was enough to get them to the final. could put that down to the poor standard of the world cup i guess.

Lovely to watch, that vid - thanks for posting - cannot believe how fast JB Lafonde and P Lagisquet were.

Please can we not mention Eddie Butler any more on these boards?

I have a new year's resolution to improve my potty mouth.
And whenever I see or hear any ButlerBalls, I cannot help blurting out the word "****"

Like most teams in the professional era, France have evolved away from their frightening front fives in the 70/80's to a more mobile version in the current never ending drive to keep the ball in motion. Old fashioned props would have a field day with current scrums and this would also keep flankers honest and stop them lurking in midfield and relying on props to do some of their work at the breakdown.
Language and emphasis has always been a problem for the French and they are invariably on the wrong side of a 50/50 ref calls and it is those little things that make the difference to an overall result in the big games.
The original cliche was to avoid playing France in Paris in springtime with the sun on your back and probably still holds true but these days the last game of the 6N is played at night for TV !

I was living in France at the time of the 99 World Cup. I remember wanting the earth to swallow me up and for the commentators to tone down their decibel breaking screams. Now that I watch it with the comfortable passage of time I must admit it´s rather amusing. One guy sounds like if his voice goes any higher he´ll self-combust!

France have always been my 'second team' - something that seems to perplex and annoy many of my fiercely Anglo mates.

I think at their best they combine their traditional strengths like a rock solid scrum and fluid back play with a more modern approach to the breakdown and defence. I find it impossible not to love the 'flakiness' - apart from neatly fitting lazy French stereotypes, it just makes them brilliantly compelling to watch. Whenever England play the ABs i know we'll try, look ok in a few collisions and then get our @rses handed to us. When the French do they play with a sort of desperation that often raises their game.

The paper scissors rock analogy is superb and spot on. I always feel like we will beat France...not so cocky when it comes to Ireland.

The comment someone made on France fearing the ABs so upping their game is something i've also heard. Reminds me of George Foreman saying he was scared of Joe Frazier...so knocked him down 5 times (or whatever it was). Albeit not quite the same result.

Even the much vaunted and impressive 'French flair' cannot make up for the shortcomings of officialdom, and had they received the rub of the green from said officials then they would have broken their World cup duck. Alas!! it was not to be, but French/Gallic flair is one of the major plusses in world Rugby today, how i wish i could say that about the Reffing.

Jeepers you talk some fecal matter. I bet you took the michael royally in 07 and here you are whingeing without the slightest irony. The best team in the tournament won, and despite NZ getting the rub of said green France weren't good enough to take it out of the equation. It wasn't even the worst refereeing performance of the tournament. Go and talk to Biltong if you want to argue about that. Otherwise keep dusting the Neil Back poster you have on your wall and gobbing off about McCaw not deserving anything. Ah, the hypocrisy. Sorry mate, Richie's a champion, not a cheat.

Disneychilly- Lets compromise, McC is merely a 'Champion cheat' a disgrace to Rugby, and were he not an AB player/ Captain he would have been pinged off the pitch more games than not. Without a supine and spineless Officialdom the AB's would not have won that match and whats more, the AB fans know it and so do we!! if the news is bad don't shoot the messenger, why not start with the officials you have in your pockets!

I'm sorry it's a bit rich coming from someone whose team got busted for cheating in the World Cup. You remember, deflating the balls as Wilkinson couldn't kick with them? Which is nothing new as actually they were doing it in 2003.

By officials we have in our pockets-what you mean like Wayne Barnes?

Without spineless officialdom Martin Johnson would have been pinged off the park as he is a thug. And Back would have joined him on the sidelines if you're going to condemn the actions of every 7. Back did it his whole career-Pocock and Brussow have too. McCaw is the best 7 in the game-he knows the laws better than the refs. As paying refs off-yeah with the NZ peso we could really afford that. Think it's not your resentment of McCaw, rather the resentment of only winning 6 tests against NZ, and none of them at a RWC where NZ has a superior record to England.

'MCcaw knows the laws better than the refs'

That must be why he tells them what to do, and being as he knows more than them they probably feel compelled to do as he says, either that or he threatens to report them to Paddy o' spineless, but, i think you've gone a long way in to sorting out why Mccheat stays on the pitch!!!

Englishwarrior
In your world,what colour is the sky?

Auklandlaurie- My dear old chap, just how far from civilisation are you , its Blue of course, like yours and don't tell me that NZ culture has degenerated so severely that you no longer have the adjective BLUE!!

Just how bad is it out there, but never mind, i'm nothing but patient and any more questions or queries, just let me know!!