Did the DRS System work
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Alessandro Ciambella
Fernando
6 posters
The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Motorsport
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Did the DRS System work
The new-for-2011 Drag Reduction System definitely assisted in increasing overtaking potential in the sport, but as Gary Anderson explains, it wasn't universally welcolmed as the perfect solution to F1's long search for on-track entertainment
A Formula 1 team's main objective is to find loopholes in the regulations that others have not discovered, because it gives them a performance advantage for a least a few races while the opposition tries to catch up.
If the loophole is found early enough for the design concept to be based around it, then other teams will struggle to adapt it to their cars and will never get the best from it.
An example of this was the f-duct rear wing that McLaren introduced. Getting the duct-work through the car to achieve the different pressures needed to make it effective was no mean feat, and if you look at how developments progressed throughout 2010, it took the rest of the grid most of the season to get their version up to speed.
This year the FIA stepped in and banned this style of wing-stall drag reduction, and introduced into the regulations what is now called the DRS system. Although it optimised the wing design to give the maximum benefit, it came at the cost of what a successful F1 one team is all about: digging deep to find that little advantage that no one else has discovered.
I'm not a fan of anything I consider artificial. When you see two drivers at the top of their profession like Mark Webber and Fernando Alonso at Spa going through Eau Rouge side by side, or Sebastian Vettel and Alonso at Monza exiting Curve Grande on the grass challenging one another at speeds that most of us can only dream about, this is exciting.
But watching someone press a button that gives them an extra 15km / h on a straight and using the old 'mirror signal manoeuvre' to overtake the driver in front does not make the hair on the back of my neck stand up.
Introducing this sort of thing just sends the teams off on a spending spree to come up with a whole new family of wings that maximise the drag reduction when the DRS is activated.
In the early races of 2011, quite a few teams struggled to get a wing design that gave consistent airflow reattachment when the DRS was deactivated.
This meant that they lacked rear-end stability under braking, and as a result they would have to close the wing well before the braking zone, giving up most of the performance advantage.
As the season progressed, everyone found more or less the same solution: a short-cord rear flap and a long-cord main plane. This concept gave the best drag reduction and with the correct profiles the reattachment problems were dramatically reduced.
Red Bull was the only team to not go for the maximum benefit. As with the rest of the RB7, the team's designers focused on overall car performance as opposed to putting all their engineering eggs into one basket.
Indeed, it was the sum of all the parts that gave the team its outstanding performance rather than excellence in just one area.
During qualifying, the DRS allowed the teams to run with a bit more overall downforce, which got the tyres into their working zone earlier. By using the drag reduction of the rear wing at every available opportunity, the required top speeds were also achieved.
To get the best out of all of this, it was important to have the correct gear ratios. If the engine was on the rev limiter for too long, the potential benefit would be diminished. But if the ratios were perfect for qualifying, the race performance would be compromised when the cars had 150kg of fuel added.
As the season progressed, each team honed in on similar gear ratio compromises, and in the end no one really benefited. I believe that if the DRS had been removed for the last half of the season, the grids would have more or less been the same.
In the races, it was a bit different. As we saw with the various solutions to detection and activation zones, some cars had greater speed advantages than others - but no car that was in the top six on top speed actually won a race this year .
This is another reminder that overall car performance is about the sum of the parts, and not any one item.
Vettel's job for Saturday afternoon was to get pole position - a feat which he achieved for 15 out of 19 races - and his biggest challenge on Sunday was to open up more than a one-second gap to the following car by the end of lap two , when the DRS could be enabled. He was pretty successful at this, too.
Implementing the detection and activation zones for a system like DRS is no easy task. If the detection zone is in too slow a corner, then the car ahead always opens up a reasonably big gap very quickly just because it can get on the throttle much earlier , making it very difficult for the following driver to keep in contact.
The activation zone is roughly the distance from one line to another, and as we saw from some tracks, the straight was often too short to allow the following car to close up the one-second gap and get alongside the car ahead and attempt an overtaking manoeuvre.
When single detection zones were used with double activation zones, it meant that if a driver could overtake in the first part, he would still be able to use the DRS in the second area to pull away from the driver that he had just passed, reducing the potential for any retaliation.
In Abu Dhabi, we saw two detection and two activation zones per lap, with the second one coming just after the first. This really just confused things, because the car positions at the end of these two zones was the same as when the drivers entered the initial detection zone.
Sure, it was fun to see the cars passing one another, but it seemed to turn overtaking into something frivolous.
In summary, the DRS is something that was introduced as a bandage until someone comes up with a set of regulations that allows the cars to race closely together, and for the drivers to use their talents to carry out the overtaking moves that they commit to.
If this bandage is kept in place for too long, drivers will actually lose their ability to make decisions on where another driver is weak and where they are strong, and they will only work on the areas that the DRS will give them the potential to pull off an overtaking move - which, because of circuit design, will always be placed at the end of the main straight, which is not always the best area for overtaking.
Source:autosport
A Formula 1 team's main objective is to find loopholes in the regulations that others have not discovered, because it gives them a performance advantage for a least a few races while the opposition tries to catch up.
If the loophole is found early enough for the design concept to be based around it, then other teams will struggle to adapt it to their cars and will never get the best from it.
An example of this was the f-duct rear wing that McLaren introduced. Getting the duct-work through the car to achieve the different pressures needed to make it effective was no mean feat, and if you look at how developments progressed throughout 2010, it took the rest of the grid most of the season to get their version up to speed.
This year the FIA stepped in and banned this style of wing-stall drag reduction, and introduced into the regulations what is now called the DRS system. Although it optimised the wing design to give the maximum benefit, it came at the cost of what a successful F1 one team is all about: digging deep to find that little advantage that no one else has discovered.
I'm not a fan of anything I consider artificial. When you see two drivers at the top of their profession like Mark Webber and Fernando Alonso at Spa going through Eau Rouge side by side, or Sebastian Vettel and Alonso at Monza exiting Curve Grande on the grass challenging one another at speeds that most of us can only dream about, this is exciting.
But watching someone press a button that gives them an extra 15km / h on a straight and using the old 'mirror signal manoeuvre' to overtake the driver in front does not make the hair on the back of my neck stand up.
Introducing this sort of thing just sends the teams off on a spending spree to come up with a whole new family of wings that maximise the drag reduction when the DRS is activated.
In the early races of 2011, quite a few teams struggled to get a wing design that gave consistent airflow reattachment when the DRS was deactivated.
This meant that they lacked rear-end stability under braking, and as a result they would have to close the wing well before the braking zone, giving up most of the performance advantage.
As the season progressed, everyone found more or less the same solution: a short-cord rear flap and a long-cord main plane. This concept gave the best drag reduction and with the correct profiles the reattachment problems were dramatically reduced.
Red Bull was the only team to not go for the maximum benefit. As with the rest of the RB7, the team's designers focused on overall car performance as opposed to putting all their engineering eggs into one basket.
Indeed, it was the sum of all the parts that gave the team its outstanding performance rather than excellence in just one area.
During qualifying, the DRS allowed the teams to run with a bit more overall downforce, which got the tyres into their working zone earlier. By using the drag reduction of the rear wing at every available opportunity, the required top speeds were also achieved.
To get the best out of all of this, it was important to have the correct gear ratios. If the engine was on the rev limiter for too long, the potential benefit would be diminished. But if the ratios were perfect for qualifying, the race performance would be compromised when the cars had 150kg of fuel added.
As the season progressed, each team honed in on similar gear ratio compromises, and in the end no one really benefited. I believe that if the DRS had been removed for the last half of the season, the grids would have more or less been the same.
In the races, it was a bit different. As we saw with the various solutions to detection and activation zones, some cars had greater speed advantages than others - but no car that was in the top six on top speed actually won a race this year .
This is another reminder that overall car performance is about the sum of the parts, and not any one item.
Vettel's job for Saturday afternoon was to get pole position - a feat which he achieved for 15 out of 19 races - and his biggest challenge on Sunday was to open up more than a one-second gap to the following car by the end of lap two , when the DRS could be enabled. He was pretty successful at this, too.
Implementing the detection and activation zones for a system like DRS is no easy task. If the detection zone is in too slow a corner, then the car ahead always opens up a reasonably big gap very quickly just because it can get on the throttle much earlier , making it very difficult for the following driver to keep in contact.
The activation zone is roughly the distance from one line to another, and as we saw from some tracks, the straight was often too short to allow the following car to close up the one-second gap and get alongside the car ahead and attempt an overtaking manoeuvre.
When single detection zones were used with double activation zones, it meant that if a driver could overtake in the first part, he would still be able to use the DRS in the second area to pull away from the driver that he had just passed, reducing the potential for any retaliation.
In Abu Dhabi, we saw two detection and two activation zones per lap, with the second one coming just after the first. This really just confused things, because the car positions at the end of these two zones was the same as when the drivers entered the initial detection zone.
Sure, it was fun to see the cars passing one another, but it seemed to turn overtaking into something frivolous.
In summary, the DRS is something that was introduced as a bandage until someone comes up with a set of regulations that allows the cars to race closely together, and for the drivers to use their talents to carry out the overtaking moves that they commit to.
If this bandage is kept in place for too long, drivers will actually lose their ability to make decisions on where another driver is weak and where they are strong, and they will only work on the areas that the DRS will give them the potential to pull off an overtaking move - which, because of circuit design, will always be placed at the end of the main straight, which is not always the best area for overtaking.
Source:autosport
Fernando- Fernando
- Posts : 36461
Join date : 2011-01-26
Age : 33
Location : buckinghamshire
Re: Did the DRS System work
Overtaking in motorsport should be a difficult, precise and skill based manouevre in which the two drivers involved have the opportunity to attack and defend respective of their position on track. DRS has removed this part of racing completely and has turned overtaking into a predictable, boring, unskilled and uncontested manouevre which not only is tiresome and embarrasing to watch but ultimately makes the defending driver powerless to losing his position. To make matters worse is the fact that F1 and the stewards have become so strict upon making two defensive moves, makes attacking and defending battles or duels for a period of laps a thing of the past.
In my opinion it should be removed. The 2010 season was a classic season, full of intrigue and excitment from start to finish. There were some truly remarkable and exciting, tension filled races throughout the season without the need for DRS. The only reason DRS was introduced was because the casual F1 who tuned in for the last race of the season complained about of the issue of Alonso being unable to pass Petrov in Abu Dhabi, where the design of the track played the important factor in the low level of overtaking. DRS or back to back zones which were evident in Korea & Abu Dhabi were embarrasing. It's only 'apparent' advantage is allowing the Mclaren's, Red Bull's & Ferrari's of this world the easy opportunity of regaining track position after they have failed in qualifying, but surely the top drivers should be punished for mistakes?
I'm sure the debate will go on.....
In my opinion it should be removed. The 2010 season was a classic season, full of intrigue and excitment from start to finish. There were some truly remarkable and exciting, tension filled races throughout the season without the need for DRS. The only reason DRS was introduced was because the casual F1 who tuned in for the last race of the season complained about of the issue of Alonso being unable to pass Petrov in Abu Dhabi, where the design of the track played the important factor in the low level of overtaking. DRS or back to back zones which were evident in Korea & Abu Dhabi were embarrasing. It's only 'apparent' advantage is allowing the Mclaren's, Red Bull's & Ferrari's of this world the easy opportunity of regaining track position after they have failed in qualifying, but surely the top drivers should be punished for mistakes?
I'm sure the debate will go on.....
Guest- Guest
Re: Did the DRS System work
BONJOURNO 2012 MONZA STYLE!
I have to agree with John that the Abu Dhabi placement of DRS as it was very flawed and allowed the opportunity to regain position to easy.
As a whole though DRS was brought in to stop cars in front from holding faster cars up behind and I believe it did this very well.
Again I agree with John that overtaking should require skill and precision. BUT here is where we may disagree...
I have always believed that the defending car has had a massive advantage by using aerodynamic parts to spoil air and make the job of over taking even harder by causing increased tyre temperatures, tyre degradation and a lack of aero and mechanical grip on the attacking car.
Now we have levelled the playing field with DRS. I believe the application of this technology in Qualifying and Racing mode needs to be adjusted because it is over exploited in qualifying. I believe it should be limited to the race DRS zones.
The fact drivers are defending DRS with KERS leads me to want KERS removed for the season... or to disable KERS on the leading car when the car behind is in the DRS zone.
For a long time we have had the favour in the defender. Now we can balance this injustice out with DRS technology. Yes, the passing maybe synthetic, but nobody complains about the defending driver using aero dynamics in his advantage. Doesn’t this make his defensive drive synthetic?
It comes down to getting rid of the aero modifications to remove the need of DRS. We know this will never happen and until then I believe for the good of the sport that DRS will stay.
I have to agree with John that the Abu Dhabi placement of DRS as it was very flawed and allowed the opportunity to regain position to easy.
As a whole though DRS was brought in to stop cars in front from holding faster cars up behind and I believe it did this very well.
Again I agree with John that overtaking should require skill and precision. BUT here is where we may disagree...
I have always believed that the defending car has had a massive advantage by using aerodynamic parts to spoil air and make the job of over taking even harder by causing increased tyre temperatures, tyre degradation and a lack of aero and mechanical grip on the attacking car.
Now we have levelled the playing field with DRS. I believe the application of this technology in Qualifying and Racing mode needs to be adjusted because it is over exploited in qualifying. I believe it should be limited to the race DRS zones.
The fact drivers are defending DRS with KERS leads me to want KERS removed for the season... or to disable KERS on the leading car when the car behind is in the DRS zone.
For a long time we have had the favour in the defender. Now we can balance this injustice out with DRS technology. Yes, the passing maybe synthetic, but nobody complains about the defending driver using aero dynamics in his advantage. Doesn’t this make his defensive drive synthetic?
It comes down to getting rid of the aero modifications to remove the need of DRS. We know this will never happen and until then I believe for the good of the sport that DRS will stay.
Alessandro Ciambella- Posts : 579
Join date : 2011-04-20
Location : Monza
Re: Did the DRS System work
I agree with the using KERS to defend the DRS challenge is somewhat annoying, but necessary for the leading car.
Instead of all these aids why not just reduce the amount of downforce cars are allowed - like back in the day.
Instead of all these aids why not just reduce the amount of downforce cars are allowed - like back in the day.
Critical_mass- Posts : 1148
Join date : 2011-06-06
Re: Did the DRS System work
Regulating the amount or aerodown force would be a massive help to the cause as well. It would help by reducing the amount of spoiled air from the lead car.
I am not sure what kind of test the FIA could use to regulate the maximum allowed.
I am not sure what kind of test the FIA could use to regulate the maximum allowed.
Alessandro Ciambella- Posts : 579
Join date : 2011-04-20
Location : Monza
Re: Did the DRS System work
I'll start off by saying that I don't really approve of artificial driving or overtaking aids. With my "Purist" hat on, I would love for F1 to be purely about driver skill.
However, F1 has always been as much about engineering knowledge and application, as it has been about the skill of the drivers.
We all know why DRS was introduced and in my humble opinion its greatly improved most of the races this season.
Yes, there were races where the zones weren't set up correctly, rendering it ineffectual, or making it too easy to pass, but this was its first season in use, so you have to expect teething problems.
Like Critical Mass and Alessandro, I'd love to see a return to very basic aerodynamics...basically just plain front and rear wings, with the emphasis put back on maximising mechanical grip.
With this being unlikely to happen though, I'm happy to put up with DRS, until they think of something better.
However, F1 has always been as much about engineering knowledge and application, as it has been about the skill of the drivers.
We all know why DRS was introduced and in my humble opinion its greatly improved most of the races this season.
Yes, there were races where the zones weren't set up correctly, rendering it ineffectual, or making it too easy to pass, but this was its first season in use, so you have to expect teething problems.
Like Critical Mass and Alessandro, I'd love to see a return to very basic aerodynamics...basically just plain front and rear wings, with the emphasis put back on maximising mechanical grip.
With this being unlikely to happen though, I'm happy to put up with DRS, until they think of something better.
dyrewolfe- Posts : 6974
Join date : 2011-03-13
Location : Restaurant at the end of the Universe
Re: Did the DRS System work
dyrewolfe wrote:I'll start off by saying that I don't really approve of artificial driving or overtaking aids. With my "Purist" hat on, I would love for F1 to be purely about driver skill.
However, F1 has always been as much about engineering knowledge and application, as it has been about the skill of the drivers.
We all know why DRS was introduced and in my humble opinion its greatly improved most of the races this season.
Yes, there were races where the zones weren't set up correctly, rendering it ineffectual, or making it too easy to pass, but this was its first season in use, so you have to expect teething problems.
Like Critical Mass and Alessandro, I'd love to see a return to very basic aerodynamics...basically just plain front and rear wings, with the emphasis put back on maximising mechanical grip.
With this being unlikely to happen though, I'm happy to put up with DRS, until they think of something better.
Agree with an awful lot of the above. The problem is that you can't 'uninvent' things, including knowledge of aerodynamics - the late 60s and early 70s had very basic wings, but by the end of the 70s the F1 designers had already developed 'wing cars' where the whole body provided downforce, and this has simply grown ever more subtle and refined over the years. Attempt to create regulations that will only produce a low drag and low downforce car and Adrian Newey will have it back to 90% of the level of downforce of this year's RB within a few months.
OK, in some places the DRS achieved nothing, and in others it did too much, but for several races it was actually quite successful at redressing the imbalance whereby even significantly faster cars couldn't pass because they simply understeered at each corner when in the turbulent air of the car in front. OK, the understeering is still there, but the car behind now has the opportunity to run a bit further back and still close the gap on the straights. May not make for the most fascinating overtaking moves, but its better than overtaking being impossible (at least in dry conditions).
dummy_half- Posts : 6483
Join date : 2011-03-11
Age : 52
Location : East Hertfordshire
Re: Did the DRS System work
You will never see regulations permitting a return to basic aerodynamic parts on a f1 car to improve racing, so there's no point debating about it. I've already had my say and i agree with the majority on this story, however one more thing which does annoy me is the fact that drivers who have struggled to overtake in previous seasons, i.e button, who clearly lack the natural ability and aggressiveness to pull off a move are now basically being rewarded for not having that prior ability through the ease of DRS. All the great past world champions had the natural ability and aggressive streak in their driver make-up to overtake, however today that attribute is not so important and emphasises the point that f1 is more and more about machinery than driver ability which is a shame.
Guest- Guest
Re: Did the DRS System work
I wasn't a big fan, i agree with John about overtaking being one of the integral part's of F1. Having said that something had to be done, there were so many processions and race's being ruined with at times the virtual impossibility of passing. Having said that i don't think that Button wasn't a good overtaker before this season, i always thought he was one of the better passers. Very clean and accurtate, Brazil 2006 and 2009 he pulled off some particularily good overtakes off the top of my head.
monty junior- Posts : 1775
Join date : 2011-04-18
Re: Did the DRS System work
John wrote:You will never see regulations permitting a return to basic aerodynamic parts on a f1 car to improve racing, so there's no point debating about it. I've already had my say and i agree with the majority on this story, however one more thing which does annoy me is the fact that drivers who have struggled to overtake in previous seasons, i.e button, who clearly lack the natural ability and aggressiveness to pull off a move are now basically being rewarded for not having that prior ability through the ease of DRS. All the great past world champions had the natural ability and aggressive streak in their driver make-up to overtake, however today that attribute is not so important and emphasises the point that f1 is more and more about machinery than driver ability which is a shame.
Any other drivers you'd care to name there john...or are you just having yet another dig at a driver you clearly dislike, for whatever reason?
I could also add that F1 is as much about being able to adapt to new rules or technological innovations. If some drivers are better at it than others, its hardly their fault, is it? I can also think of a few races where Mark Webber, Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton have also made great use of DRS when they've had poor qualifying sessions. Are you saying they couldn't overtake before either?
As Monty pointed out, Button demonstrated his overtaking prowess on a few occasions with Brawn too (towards the end of the 2009 season when the likes of Red Bull and Ferrari had caught up with them in terms of car developmnet)...but of course you conveniently forget about that. Prior to that he'd never had a car capable of overtaking anything other than the slowest back markers and usually went through races unnoticed.
dyrewolfe- Posts : 6974
Join date : 2011-03-13
Location : Restaurant at the end of the Universe
Re: Did the DRS System work
What a suprise that you've reacted like this, you say i'm clearly biased but the way you constantly defend and support Button is unbelievable. I just used Button as a prime example but you see that as a view to go on the rampage. My point was there are many more drivers on the grid who have taken advantage of the DRS system (incl. Hamilton) and how the 'art' and 'skill' of overtaking has been completely removed from the sport, and that ultimately drivers don't require or need to have the natural ability, aggressiveness or ruthless streak to overtake unlike past champions i.e Senna had in abundance. Button has clearly taken advantage of the DRS system the most out of the top five drivers, a point accepted by many of the media analysts throughout the season. Along with the introduction of pirelli tyres, this has transformed Button into an ultra-competitive driver who can challenge the top drivers on a consistant basis.
How have I forgotten about Button's overtaking performance in Brazil? You people bring it up on every occassion it's embarrasing, the reason i don't bring it up is because its been debated about 1000 times. Your not the only person in the world who watches a race and it's funny how you people forget the performance of Hamilton in that race. Started behind Button on the grid in 17th and finished on the podium!
All your responses are negative and you just try to look for the bad points in peoples posts.
How have I forgotten about Button's overtaking performance in Brazil? You people bring it up on every occassion it's embarrasing, the reason i don't bring it up is because its been debated about 1000 times. Your not the only person in the world who watches a race and it's funny how you people forget the performance of Hamilton in that race. Started behind Button on the grid in 17th and finished on the podium!
All your responses are negative and you just try to look for the bad points in peoples posts.
Guest- Guest
Re: Did the DRS System work
Button is a very good overtaker and always has been, he plays the percentages a bit more than some though. How about Hockenheim 2004 where he overtook his way to second from 13th. Brazil 2006 when he came from 14th to 3rd in a car with the lowest topline speed in the field. Bahrain 2006. Turkey 2007. There's so many examples of Button slicing through the field, unfortunately for many years he had a car with a slow topline speed, easy to look good with a powerful Mercedes or BMW engine not so much with the later version of that Honda engine. What he has proven though that given the chance with a good car he can overtake as well as anyone else.
monty junior- Posts : 1775
Join date : 2011-04-18
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