TNA= Wrestling Promotion WWE= Entertainment Company

After brady's shocking bombshell that he is to cast aside the world of wrestling and subsequently leave this forum it got me thinking about the state of pro wrestling and my own reasons for watching and what enjoyment if any i now get out of it. Vince Mcmahon has evolved pro wrestling within the wwe into a product far removed from its previous existence, so heavily focused on on the almighty dollar and instant gratification that it leaves me and I'm sure many other seasoned fans questioning their motives to continue watching. Wrestling for me was always about following a story line and watching how it develops and plays out, enjoying the quality promo's, the fantastic technical in ring ability, the character and personalities of the performers and of course watching the sadistic embrace of a cold hard steel chair shot busting a competitor wide open (lol)! Yes of course im a grumpy old set in my ways pessimistic so and so but i just don't except that what is being offered up in terms of booking, performer development, character development, and story lines is they way i should appreciate wrestling.

I think it's become clear that the wwe are not really interested in catering to my wants and needs as a consumer due to the fact that im outside of their target demographic and if wwe continues to overlook the mature/seasoned fans and continue to invest in the younger merch buying audience then I will have no option but to eventually and regrettably switch off. Of course any product or business needs to be aware of what a younger future audience wants as they wil be the life blood of the future consumer generation however wrestling has always been a broad show/product that offers something to all age ranges and sexes and wwe have forgotten this, they have thrown all their weight into the lucrative PG era and cast aside the fans from the attitude era and before. If the wwe persist with alienating the older fans and continue to further themselves from the word wrestling which seams to have become a dirty word within the organisation I can only see myself becoming less and less infatuated with wrestling. The emergence of cm punk as a top star and the fact that wwe have recognised this along with Bryan wining WHC suggests that maybe there is a glimmer of hope however I have no confidence in wwe to book either logically, coherently or interestingly. The more I think about it the more I believe that my future wrestling enjoyment lies with TNA, sure they have their own MAJOR booking issues but the company ethos and beliefs are that of a wrestling promotion not an entertainment company that's more interested in celebrity culture, twitter, making films and producing reality tv. TNA wants the mature wrestling fans wwe doesn't, TNA believes wrestling matters, wwe does not. Time will tell on this one but I honestly believe that if TNA bring in someone like Paul Heyman in time they will be the number one company to watch and enjoy wrestling. TNA has the stars at their disposal, they have the infrastructure all they need is a break out moment, that truly puts them in contention to steal fans and ratings from the WWE and this could also indirectly be the spark that vince needs to turn his attention back to first and foremost making an entertaining WRESTLING product

thoughts if any are welcome

What can TNA do to have that break out moment? Hulk Hogan and Bischoff couldn't do it, Jeff Hardy couldn't do it, RVD (whose massively overrated anyway) couldn't do it, what can do it?

It could be argued that Jeff Hardy was the biggest star in Wrestling in 2009, he was popping big time and had a seriously big time faithful fan base, also, unlike Cena's fanbase, Jeff Hardy's covered a multiple of demographs too, he was being pushed to be the top face on SmackDown! back when SD had a roster that could be argued was better than RAW's, for me his decision to take time off was unbelievably misguided when you consider he was finally topping the bill after 13/14 years of trying to reach that summit.

Anyway, no doubts he was at the very least the second top face in Pro wrestling in North America, 4/5 months later he shows up in TNA and nothing, it was a terrible way to bring him in, after that they never used him anywhere near the way they should have, it took them about 8 months to get him firing the way he was when he left the WWE and they inexplicably turn him heel

I really don't see what TNA can do to have that big break out moment, anytime they have the possibility of a chance they swerve the whole thing, Bobby Roode being the latest to suffer

Jeff Hardy was as near a house hold name as he'll ever likely to be when he left WWE, definitely within the Wrestling fans world anyway, but I'd doubt many could tell you what he's doing these days

I'm tired of saying TNA have potential, I've been saying that since I started watching it 5 years ago, the talent has always been there, the character's are there but the company as a whole is rotten to the core, it'll never reach the standards it could and should reach as long as Dixie Carter is allowed to use her Daddy's cash to play 'fantasy wrestling' and also has Vince Russo as an ear piece

Your right gaffer, TNA have missed so many opportunities to have that break out moment and it seams hard to predict what it is they need to do to compete with wwe and like you said there is only so long they can be described as having potential.

Lets face it TNA will never be as big or as powerful in the industry as the WWE but my hope is that they have that break out moment, something as monumental as the outsiders invasion, something that could cement them as a the 1st choice for real wrestling programming for real wrestling fans and let wwe corner the PG, celebrity, twitter market.

Lesnar to TNA is going to be their big break out moment.

adam, do you think that could actually happen? it would be massive if it did, i've herd rumors of a wwe return and that a dialogue opened up after he agreed to be used on 2012 video game but a move tna would be a huge coup!

Considering someone like RVD said he joined TNA mainly because of the light schedule, and considering Brock Lesnar left the WWE because he hated the heavy travelling schedule, it's not the stupidest idea ever...

Adam D wrote:Lesnar to TNA is going to be their big break out moment.

I think you probably said that tongue in cheek but it might not be the craziest idea

I think it would need to be very worth his while though and TNA are bleeding money at the moment with the amount of guys on the roster, it's well known they've actively tried to entice Heyman and that crazy bassa even wanted them to write over a decent percentage of the company to him, that being said, even if they could pull Lesnar and Heyman I still wouldn't have faith in them utilising him to his maximum potential

I've no doubt Heyman has the passion to give it a real go but I think it would feel to small time for someone like Lesnar, a guy who has always been at the top and I don't think he's got that bug for the business that would see him want to help establish TNA as a main player, I think he would strive the big time, big pay-day sure but the massivevenue and big deal something like WrestleMania is would win it for him IMO

I think we could list anyone but in reality I don't think anyone could go there and turn it around as it stands right now

The difference between the two I think can be identified with this viewpoint

WWE could take Samoa Joe (potential who isn't being used) and make him a huge star while TNA could sign John Cena (biggest name in the biz) and inadvertedly make him a lesser star

gaffer i know we are getting into fantasy booking of sorts here but what does TNA have to do in your opinion to actually compete with WWE?

and also in relation to the op do you believe that wwe is no longer a pro wrestling product and more of an entertainment product for a PG viewership and that TNA is the future of wrestling for older/mature/seasoned fans? same questions to anyone else whose interested in this, if any!

Well I've said for years now that the WWE is more of an Entertainment production nowadays than a Wrestling promotion but the fact remains that when WWE do something right, they get the whole place buzzing, the buzz going into Money In The Bank and the actual event itself was unbelievable, the buzz going into WM 25 & 26 was unreal, individual fueds to like Taker/Edge HBK/Flair was unbelievable, look at the buzz the business got the night Nexus formed

What can TNA do? I've no idea, it's a bit pie in the sky to just name names we've no idea would be interested in going there though, what I will say though is that I don't believe they'll ever progress while they have Hogan and Bischoff on the pay-roll

It'd be great if they would sit back and take a long look at ROH and use their booking style to build fueds and stars, they've got no real idea how to build a proper star, Samoa Joe is probably the closest they've come to it and for God knows what reason they took the title off him and instead of launching him in another direction that would eventually lead him back to the title they just dropped the ball with him

You look at guys like Matt Morgan, Pro Wrestling was invented for freaks like him yet I don't think he's ever 1 on 1 main evented a PPV

They done a good job with Crimson but now they've booked themselves into a corner, he's now a tag champ and they'll either hold the title for about a year or his first loss will come in a tag match which makes a mockery of the entire point of his streak, either that or they'll need to do another injury angle, both Morgan and Crimson have been written out from injury in the last 6 months, one legit one kayfabe, that would just appear meh

As much as many 'seasoned' fans may bemoan the direction of the WWE, Vince MacMahon has been a very shrewd businessman. He's taken the biggest wrestling franchise in the world and created a multi-media product. Vince has cemented WWE's reputation as being THE wrestling franchise regardless of the quality of the in-ring action. WWE is synonymous with money, professionalism, commercialisation and most importantly mainstream exposure. TNA doesn't have that and probably never will. ROH doesn't have that but recognises their own limitations and knows what it is - an indie promotion for the smarks. It's a niche product that is designed to appeal to the hardcore wrestling fan. TNA are trapped somewhere in the middle - neither in one world or the other. The booking is too irratic and inconsistent to create the same sort of simple, quality product of ROH and they don't have the same money as WWE to make it feel 'big-time' resulting in it feeling 'amatuer' compared to the WWE. In my opinion TNA needs to learn to walk before it can run. Sort out the booking problems, stop the rot as far as management and creative is concerned and then once it has a consistently good product that fans can enjoy following month in month out then they can make progress regarding their own media exposure and mainstream credibility. A buy-out by Vince is not the solution, Jim Cornette wouldn't touch TNA with a bargepole so Paul Heyman may be their only hope - he has the reputation amongst the fans, he has the experience and he has the the no-nonsense attitude that TNA need in order to correct their many faults. But as long as TNA keep making concessions to Russo, Hogan and Bishoff they won't make the progress they desire.

Totally agree talkingpoint about your comments on how shrewd vince is and what he has created is immense however as a fan of pro wrestling i dont want a multi-media product i want a wrestling promotion with an old school vibe that focuses on building feuds, stars and puts on quality match ups, of course tna has its limitation but the ethos is there to build upon and if they can address the issues you correctly pin pointed then it could be the number 1 choice to enjoy wrestling

Scott D'Amore knows more about the ins and outs in TNA than Paul Heyman ever will and also knows how to methodically book a product, it's easy throwing Heyman's name into the mix, it seems to be if in doubt bring out the Heyman card and hope for the best and I just don't agree, Heyman has made it clear that he wants a share in the company and a big say in the whole business side of things, he ain't that great to expect that level of leverage

Dave Legana is already there and he is someone who has a great creative mind. And with Brother Love as VP of talent relations they do have a decent backroom, with Hogan and Bischoff though they'll never step up a level

Without wishing to seem like I'm copying gaffer, I have been banging the drum for D'Amore to be head booker of TNA, anytime you look at the words TNA and creative peak, D'Amore's name inevitably pops up, wether it be as part of a 3 man booking team with Tenay and Borash back in 2005 pre Russo and in charge of the Knockouts division in their formative period.

Also lets bear in mind, Heyman as fabulously talented as he is, has never achieved what TNA want him to do and that is make them a viable competitor to the WWE. Heyman before with ECW, took them from relative obscurity, lets say of the size of WXW, took them through the PWG and ROH stages and possibly briefly got them to the TNA level, the next step bankrupted him. Obviously TNA have a greater financial backing and more stable network deal than ECW ever had, as well as their roster being far more talented than anything Heyman ever had at ECW bar a handful of guys.

To sum up I agree with Gaffer, D'Amore knows TNA like the back of his hand and I think it would be better for TNA to try things with him as a much more stable and financially viable option rather than Heyman who is probably the more inspiring option but I get the feeling would bring a very much do or die outlook to TNA's future.