Thanks for telling me....

Like most I like to think I have a reasonable grasp of the rules but was a bit lost yesterday playing with the usual mixed Sunday group I play with..thankfully hadn't entered the comp on the day...

Playing our par3 13th I'd hit my tee shot just on the green (I thought), the other guy in the group had found the right bunker and one of the ladies had semi topped into the watery field short of the river which runs between tee and green. I could see it so offered to try and retrieve it for her which I managed but took a slight detour both ways to stay on dry ground. In the meantime the others had walked up and played their shots, the guy in the bunker taking 3 to remove some sand before picking his ball up in frustration and wandering off towards the next tee.
I then two putted mine for a par (from just off the green as it turned out) and, as I started to walk off the green saw the other guys marker and retrieved it presuming he'd dropped it (despite it being a "Saints" one as a Pompey fan).
As I offered it to him on the next tee with a comment about I'd throw it away as well he told me that he'd marked my ball with it as it was on his line from the bunker but then forgot about it afterwards so I'd played my ball from around 5 feet away from the correct spot.

I figured that even if I wasn't at fault I still had the 2 shot penalty to add having not replaced the ball before completing the hole and just gave myself a blob. Sound right to you guys (gals)?....

If you're playing stableford then yeah you blobbed that hole but ultimately would be a DQ. Failing to correct mistake before teeing off on next hole. Bit harsh especially as your "mate" should have told you or replaced it if you didn't see him do it and you weren't at the green yet.

Yep it was the DQ bit I wasn't sure about myself Grumps as I did write a blob down for the hole so no actual score entered, thought that might save me?
Also wasn't sure if it was a true comp if the other guy would have had any comeback for moving a ball without consent?

You wouldn't have been dqed because you agreed that you blobbed that hole for the purposes of the stableford.

In equity, and the RoG are based on equity, I would have though this was one of those occasions when a committee would have overturned a dq (had you been playing in a formal medal event). There are lots of examples of the player himself replacing the ball in the wrong place (like after you move the marker to allow your partner to putt without going over it), and not being dqed. I think Monty, Lehman and Bobby Locke all won events after replacing the ball in the wrong place.

The key to this is that your partner marked your ball and didn't tell you, so it's unfair that you should be dqed. There may be a decision on an incident like this somewhere.

A similar thing happended to me a long time ago.

I was playing in an Open with one of the best guys in the District. His Dad was playing in front and was watching every shot his son played.

I over clubbed at a far 4 and the ball went through the green and out of bounds. The next tee was on the same line but about 30 yards away. The Dad waved to confirm the ball was out of bounds. I dropped another ball and hit it short left of the green.

I walked up to the green and pitched the ball onto the green. I was playing a ball with Uni logo with same number and same markings on it so had to be my ball (given my ball has 20 yards over the back and out of bounds). Just after I pitched the Dad shouted over that I'd played the wrong ball as he had thrown the ball back in bounds so I could collect it. Sure enough there was another newer ball a little closer to the green in a small hollow.

I took the 2 shot penality but have always thought I was short changed.

I know people are trying to be helpful when they do stuff like this, but they really aren't. I played last week with a guy who hit a provisional fearing his first was OB. The guy in front saw the first was OB, retrieved it, and chucked it back and then my partner couldn't identify which was which when he reached the balls.

I know he should have been able to identify which was which, but if the guy in front hadn't got involved then there wouldn't have been a problem.

George, your mate really ought to have marked his ball to make it easily identifiable, or not been silly enough to play the same brand and number as a provisional.

Yes, he knows that. It wasn't an important game, but he lost our match because of it, and it cost him £5. He wouldn't have made that mistake in a competition.

Good time to learn the lesson though. He probably won't do it again.

I once was in a situation where I was deep in the rough touching another ball of the same make and number, it was only my markings which made it easier to identify. Had I not been able to identify it I would have had to hit both at once, and then probably taken a penalty as I wouldn't know whether I'd hit the correct ball.

Turnip

The answer to this is not as straight forward as may at first appear. If you play a ball from the wrong place in stroke play and the breach is not serious, then you hole out with the ball played from the wrong pllace and add two shots. From your description, it would appear that the ball played from the wrong place was fairly close to the original position and therefore not a serious breach. Thus by completing the hole as you did the only action would have been to add two strokes to the score for that hole (ie a blob?)

If you believed it was a serious breach, then before teeing off from the next tee, you should have played a second ball and then sought the committee's opinion of whether it was a serious breach and they would decide which score should count. If a serious breach occurred and you do not play a second ball then you would be disqualified.

See rule 20-7c

Turnip,
I believe that you had the option to return to where your ball was drop it and play your second shot without penalty.

It you were aware that your mate have moved the ball then that was a different story................

John

I can find nothing in the rules of golf or the decisions to back up your belief, but I will have another look this evening.

Yeah but is there something in the ROG that specifically state that an "outside agent" has moved your ball and you couldn't possibly have known yet you are still penalised.
There is scope for "Committee" to apply the spirit of the rules also

John

You are not quite right in your original comment about dropping a ball, but you are right that there is no penalty:

Decision 18-1/3

Q: In stroke play, a player’s ball was moved by an outside agency. Neither the player nor his caddie was aware that his ball had been moved, so the player played the ball without replacing it. He then learned that his ball had been moved. What is the ruling?
A: As it was not known or virtually certain that the ball had been moved by an outside agency when the player played the ball, he proceeded properly and incurred no penalty — see the Note to Rule 18-1. (Revised)

So turnip was OK to play his ball and no penalty should have been applied.

Interesting!

Cheers GM...............