Tom Wood Out for first 2 6N matches

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_7442605,00.html

More injury woes for England - surely Robshaw will be starting now. Likely with Croft and Morgan.

The England team will essentially pick itself based on whos left standing!

You now know what its like to be Welsh - half your players being crocked before the blyddi thing begins - I empathise

Who do you think will be temporarily called up? If it is Saull as a specialist 7 (where Wood looked likely to start), will/should he start based on that?

Possible call ups from the saxons list. Maybe Tom Johnson or Jamie Gibson. Most likely Saull though.
Saxons forwards -
David Attwood (Bath Rugby)
Chris Brooker (Harlequins)
Paul Doran Jones (Northampton Saints)
Matt Garvey (London Irish)
James Gaskell (Sale Sharks)
Jamie Gibson (London Irish)
Joe Gray (Harlequins)
Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs)
Joe Launchbury (London Wasps)
Matt Mullan (Worcester Warriors)
Luke Narraway (Gloucester Rugby)
David Paice (London Irish)
Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers)
George Robson (Harlequins)
Andrew Saull (Saracens)
Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks)
Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers)
Nick Wood (Gloucester Rugby)

Forget the 6 Nations, Munster have no excuses if they don't beat Saints. Wilson, Ashton and possibly Downey have all been announced as leaving the club, Lawes and Wood are out injured and the club is in turmoil over the Chris Ashton v Mallinder fight.

propdavid_london wrote:Possible call ups from the saxons list. Maybe Tom Johnson or Jamie Gibson. Most likely Saull though.
Saxons forwards -
David Attwood (Bath Rugby)
Chris Brooker (Harlequins)
Paul Doran Jones (Northampton Saints)
Matt Garvey (London Irish)
James Gaskell (Sale Sharks)
Jamie Gibson (London Irish)
Joe Gray (Harlequins)
Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs)
Joe Launchbury (London Wasps)
Matt Mullan (Worcester Warriors)
Luke Narraway (Gloucester Rugby)
David Paice (London Irish)
Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers)
George Robson (Harlequins)
Andrew Saull (Saracens)
Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks)
Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers)
Nick Wood (Gloucester Rugby)

Think that's probably right, prop, on the basis that both TJ and Gibson can adequately cover 6 & 7

I doubt they will call someone up, considering Lawes will be fit for the start of the six nations and the already have called up Attwood as his injury replacement, would be a little unfair to send him home and bring in another back row.

However if they do bring in another back row, they will most likely bring in a specialist number 8. Either Waldrom or Narraway. Narraway would edge it due to his versatility and the fact he has English parents ;-)

So looks like the captaincy is between Robshaw and Hartley now...

Agreed robshaw4, although I think Waldrom will be called up if anybody is. Lancaster did after all, name him in the Saxons and retained Botha in the EPS so I don't think he's quite sticking to the English only concept.

ChequeredJersey wrote:Who do you think will be temporarily called up? If it is Saull as a specialist 7 (where Wood looked likely to start), will/should he start based on that?

Absolutely not. If he was within one injury of a start then he'd have been in the squad to begin with.

That's a blow, make no mistake. One of the first names on the teamsheet if I was picking. What are we looking at now as a back row? You'd assume it cements Croft's place in the side.

Maybe?:

6. Croft
7. Robshaw
8. Morgan/ Dowson


I worry about the breakdown given that situation.

Answers the Croft question then.
Robshaw and Morgan the other probables, based on Rowntrees comments last week. Bench spot wide open I guess.

If hes only out for a couple of games they may not bother calling up injury cover.

When Wood doesn't play for Saints then Dowson moves across to play 7 to accommodate Clark at 6 (with Nutley moving up to the bench). Hope Dowson doesn't do the same for England though, although he can do a job there at club level it is his worst position in the back 3. I think we may now see the following back row against Scotland.

6 - Croft
7 - Robshaw
8 - Dowson
19 - Morgan / Clark (or both on the bench as Clark can play second row if needed).

Maybe a little under powered, I'm not sure. Both Robshaw & Dowson are pretty good players on the floor and at the breakdown but not huge carriers to cross the agme line. If they do start with this combination then the likes of Lawes, Hartley, Corbisiero and Cole are going to have to make themselves available to do some hard yards.

Wow the rotten luck continues for England. With Wood out for 2 matches, does this change the thinking for the captaincy? I much preferred Wood over Croft in terms of balance for the England backrow. Croft looks almost certain now to start but I would've thought Wood had the running on him.

England can't seem to catch a break at the moment. Sometimes injuries lift a side as everyone wants to perform higher because they perceive there is a performance gap. But it's bordering on the ridiculous now. So many new combinations across the park.

We've been reasonably lucky for the last couple of years but this number of injuries was usual before then. Remember a couple of years back we were down to something like 9th choice tighthead with Doran-Jones (not even playing regularly for a premiership team at the time). Around 10 injuries in the squad was usual.

Well if Lawes plays, then he will make the tough carries. He alwasy does, and and plays defense like a back row anyway. Thats one of the reason Mallinder plays him in the back row on occasion.

But, no mistake, losing Wood is a tough loss. And something to keep an eye on, he was injured at the end of last season. Now injured again. I would want to see him fully recovered before going anywhere near a pitch. Otherwise, he could be one of those injury cycle guys.

Robshaw makes a lot of hard yards; not big distance, but good for turning slow ball into quick ball. With Croft to carry when the game's open, and Morgan or Dowson to provide a bit of power, that's a reasonable combination. Dowson, Robshaw, Morgan feels more balanced, though, if less experienced.

The more I think about it Robshaw is the best blindside flanker England have to offer, he is literally the stereotypical blindside - huge work rate, high tackle count, solid ball carrier, quality passer and link-man, leader. Robshaw should be the first name on the teamsheet and captain, in his preferred position of blindside flanker. Therefore I am currently more inclined to go with a less experienced back row of 6. Robshaw 7. Clark and 8. Morgan.

Might not be the best balance, but you know with all three you are getting 100% commitment and passion, a huge work-rate and a solid defence.

Whilst if Croft gets put on the bench, it will give him the kick up the backside he needs, and I agree that England could use him as an impact when space opens up out wide towards the end of the game.

Poorfour wrote:Dowson, Robshaw, Morgan feels more balanced, though, if less experienced.

I'd rather go with Croft, Robshaw, Dowson. Morgan on the bench. Burt I wouldn't worry about the experience. This group has the guile and toughness to compensate. But your proposed back row might be the starting unit by the end of the 6 Nations.

The good thing about Dowson is he has been around the block a number of times and won't be intimidated on that stage. Simply does all the grunt work very well. And seems to pop up in the right places making key plays when really needed. On the attack and on defense.

Robshaw is a tough, tough guy who also does a lot of grunt work and his work rate is fantastic. Solid tackler, and good going forwards. Can't be captain, but should be starting.

Croft. Well we know what Croft is capable of, and England need him to recapture his 2009 Lions form and forget his 2011 RWC form.

Morgan. Sure will be exciting to see what he can do on the biggest stage.

Who's the captain? Who is the only experienced International in the England side who captains his club?

All of the prospective backrowers will be on show this weekend in Europe. I'm very interested in seeing who puts up their hand for the starting spots, as now almost any combination is possible (technically even croft, clarke, robshaw) and the saints guys are going to be up against experienced international backrowers at munster

6 Croft
7 Robshaw
8 Morgan

Croft needs a MASSIVE performance if he starts....and not just in the open...he needs to show people that he is good at the things a backrower should consider basics....
At least the lineout will be strong.

When was it announced that Lawes would be fit for the Scotland game?? I missed that one.

This simply means Hartley is captain...

I would go with this backrow:

6.Robshaw
7.Saull
8.Morgan


Croft on the bench as impact sub against tired legs.

Lawes is suppossed to be back for Italy ( possibly playing for Saints the weekend before) , Wood Flood and Tuilagi for Wales. Wood out for

GeordieFalcon wrote:
This simply means Hartley is captain...

According to eSPN they were goign to make Wood capatin, but now it will be Robshaw, with Croft and Hartley other possibles. The backrow was goign to be Croft Wood Robshaw at 8 with Morgan on the bench, now they will start Morgan with Robshaw and Croft ( as most of us expect)

Its interesting with Croft that the internet seems to have it in for him, depsite him being one of the few players whos reallys tuck his hand up consistently over the last few years and one of the nearest things to an experienced player they have anyway near the squad. The coaches and media seem to think more highly of him.

beshocked wrote:I would go with this backrow:

6.Robshaw
7.Saull
8.Morgan


Croft on the bench as impact sub against tired legs.

No you wouldnt, youd make sure Saull was back at Saracens then moan he'd been overlooked whilst secretly being glad that your LV cup campaign wasnt being ruined

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Lawes is suppossed to be back for Italy ( possibly playing for Saints the weekend before) , Wood Flood and Tuilagi for Wales. Wood out for

GeordieFalcon wrote:
This simply means Hartley is captain...

According to eSPN they were goign to make Wood capatin, but now it will be Robshaw, with Croft and Hartley other possibles. The backrow was goign to be Croft Wood Robshaw at 8 with Morgan on the bench, now they will start Morgan with Robshaw and Croft ( as most of us expect)

Its interesting with Croft that the internet seems to have it in for him, depsite him being one of the few players whos reallys tuck his hand up consistently over the last few years and one of the nearest things to an experienced player they have anyway near the squad. The coaches and media seem to think more highly of him.

Peter i dont think its fair to put Robshaw in as Captain when he has no international experience. Let him concentrate on his game first. Hartley is captain of his club...and has over 30 caps....and whilst i have been critical of his ball carrying and form recently...his scrummaging, lineout etc is very strong (the basics for a Hooker).....its a no brainer for me.

How many actual injuries have England got?
By that I mean if they were fit they'd be in the match day 22.

Just curious, I hear a lot about injuries and I can see Wood as a big blow due to the plans England had for him but how many other injuries have they got? It seems like quite a few.

Hartley...a no brainer...how appropriate.

overlordofthewest wrote:How many actual injuries have England got?
By that I mean if they were fit they'd be in the match day 22.

Just curious, I hear a lot about injuries and I can see Wood as a big blow due to the plans England had for him but how many other injuries have they got? It seems like quite a few.

Wood, Deacon ( 50/50 starter), Flood, Lawes, Tuilagi plus Danny Care suspended who was 50/50 with Youngs for the starting shirt.

In context of previous years its actaully not that many, and the "second choices" are generally available. When Johsnon took over he was down to 4th/5th choice playters in some positions. At one point they had 8 props unavailable.

However adding in the unavailability of Haskell, and Lancasters decision to drop almost everyone over 28 and it does leave teh squad looking very bare. Flood and Lawes are two really key players not just for their ability but for their relative experience, and that they would be expected to form the backbone of the side. Tuilagi too was probably Englands best player of last year, one of the few players noone would leave out.


The loss in terms of numbers isnt that great, but its leaving big gaps in the first team that are hard to fill at a time when England will struggle for cohesion anyway.

GeordieFalcon wrote:i dont think its fair to put Robshaw in as Captain when he has no international experience.

I agree with that. England are travelling to Murrayfield, not a happy hunting ground for them lately, with a new-look squad and a fair few debutants. In those circumstances, it would be risky to say the least to hand the captaincy to someone making his Test debut.

Cheers seabiscuit.
6 or so players is still a sizable amount and added to the dropping of the old guard must double the problem - not that I think dropping them was a bad thing, it just leaves you short of experience to call on during injury crises.

The loss of Lawes and Flood is a biggy and at the moment Id say Care is playing the better rugby of the 2 scrum halves and imo should have started.

Tuilagi is class and will always be missed.

This unfortunately is international rugby, We (Wales) haven't been hit too badly so far, it even looks like we'll be able to start with a first choice front row! Unbelievable I know. Then again there's still time this weekend for more injuries.

The main problem with selecting Hartley as captain, is that he is a set piece specialist with a lot of responsibility on his shoulders already with line-outs and scrummaging, the added responsibility of the captaincy would put so much pressure on him.

He has been a solid captain for Northampton, but for the moment I would want my hooker to concentrate on three basic things - line-outs, scrummaging and discipline. The latter is what I am most concerned about when it comes to Hartley, his head seems to go quite easily and he concedes needless penalties at times, whilst off the pitch in NZ he didn't exactly set the best example.

Another candidate with international experience is Croft, however Croft is an extremely quiet guy, who hasn't got the aggression or personality to lead England.

This is why Robshaw must be captain. Firstly he is inspirational with his work-rate, secondly international experience doesn't matter any more - this is a new era for England with a lot of inexperienced players. Robshaw is an untarnished player who has deserved far more international recognition than he has received.

He is also very competent in front of the media, he may come across as quite dopey at times, but not everyone's perfect... What really stands out for me, is that Robshaw is the sort of player who would die for the red rose, he will be one of the first names down on the team sheet and in my opinion, shared by many others, should be and will be captain.

The biggest issue with the injuries, as PSW says, is the positions. In all the positions where someone's been discarded (for reasonable reasons) the promising younger player with a few caps has also got injured. So Moody, Haskell and Easter dropped...Wood injured. Shaw out...Lawes injured (and Deacon). Tindall, Hape and Flutey out.....Tindall out so it's going to be two inexpereinced centres (not that Tuilagi was that experienced but he had shown he can handle it). Wilkinson out....Flood injured. Add in Care's foolishness.

Not as bad as it has been, its more of an annoyance than anything else. Good oppotunity for Lawes, Wood and Tuilagi to build on their experience.

This is why Robshaw must be captain.

With a name like yours why am i not surprised.

But no....he MUST NOT be captain. Let him get his head around a pack of marauding scots at a packed hostile murrayfield...before thinking about the captaincy eh??

GeordieFalcon wrote:Let him get his head around a pack of marauding scots at a packed hostile murrayfield...before thinking about the captaincy eh??

I think he should definitely start, but not given the captaincy at the moment. No doubt that Wood and Robshaw would have definitely started on the flanks, so his injury throws it up in the air a bit.

I'd go with: 6. Croft 7. Robshaw 8. Morgan/Dowson.

Croft should replace him because he's really experienced now, and if he's given the captaincy, he may raise his game.

He's got a lot to prove as a 6, and like most people on here I'd love to see him get stuck in.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

This is why Robshaw must be captain.

With a name like yours why am i not surprised.

But no....he MUST NOT be captain. Let him get his head around a pack of marauding scots at a packed hostile murrayfield...before thinking about the captaincy eh??

Totally agree Geordie. Let Robbo concentrate on his first proper game for England rather than having the extra pressure of captaining the side. Think of it this way: You've just arrived on Monday morning at your brand new job you've been wanting for ages, a real step up in work and prestige. Then all of a sudden you're told your line manager is ill and you've got to take charge of the department with 22 staff and a major project due for completion at at the end of the day.... No no one would want that.

I don't like the idea of Hartley as captain either, for me he just hasn't got the gravitas required. Many are also looking about for his replacement and only really see him as the best at present.

What about someone like Palmer? He's guaranteed to start, has at least some experience at international level, performed superbly in the 5 shirt most of the time and is a senior player. For just this 6N i think he'd be a good choice and may even serve to spur his game on further.

What's all this about people tipping Callum Clarke to start at 7? Have they caught Guscott-itis or something?

When exactly did Clarke last play 7? It certainly wasn't against the Scarlets last weekend, as Dowson played there.

Yes, my screen name is proposing Robshaw for England and yes I may have a sleight bias towards Robshaw. However at the end of the day I'm a Bath fan, who has ties to Quins. Whenever I have seen Robshaw play he has always impressed, mostly with his work-rate, link-play, tackling and attitude. I remember watching Richard Hill as a youngster and Robshaw is the closest thing we have to him, and in my opinion has always been a lot more talented than the likes of Croft, Haskell and Wood who have been favoured by Johnson ahead of him.

However he will be the next England captain, and he would have been captain whether Wood was fit or not. Lancaster favours Robshaw as they have worked together a lot in the past. He knows that if there is one man who he can trust to lead by example and put in 110% it's Robshaw.

Hartley is less reliable, Croft is too timid, Palmer is 32 and is only a stop gap before the likes of Parling, Attwood and Garvey step up.

I'm hoping that everyone will go into the training week up in Leeds on a clean slate, I hope there is no favouritism and every player is given an equal chance to fight for their position in the side. For example Dan Cole may expect to start for England, however Matt Stevens is much more experienced and has always been potentially world-class, England must see him solely as a tight-head, he could be a top quality player for us, if he keeps in discipline. Similarly I could see Parling overtaking Palmer by the end of the six nations. Mouritz Botha is a powerful scrummaging lock, so I wouldn't be surprised to see Marler, Hartley and Stevens in the starting XV with Botha and Palmer behind them.

I also personally feel Tom Wood is extremely over-rated, he was solid in the six nations last year but was not spectacular, he definitely wasn't our star player. He is good in the line-out, but he's not a particularly good ball carrier, he's not particularly good at the breakdown and he's quite skinny and lightweight. In my opinion I wouldn't have started with him anyway in the backrow.

One surprise candidate who I am very surprised hasn't been mentioned more for the captaincy is Ben Foden. Arguably one of the first names on the team-sheet, his performances for Saints this season have been nothing short of spectacular - this could be down to Mike Browns, in splendid form for Quins - pushing Foden to new levels. Foden also appears very level-headed and comfortable in interviews, he's quite articulate and has never done less than impressed for England.

I know some of you feel Robshaw needs to get use to the pace of international rugby and should concentrate on getting stuck in, however I don't feel Robshaw is the sort of player who would be hindered by the captaincy, if anything he would thrive from it.

However he will be the next England captain, and he would have been captain whether Wood was fit or not. Lancaster favours Robshaw as they have worked together a lot in the past. He knows that if there is one man who he can trust to lead by example and put in 110% it's Robshaw.

I expect every player 1-22 to put in 110% and lead by example...and if they dont i would be questioning their position in the side. That said some stand out and Robshaw certainly does....but again it takes more than 110% effort to make the captains spot...andas mentioned before does Robshaws style of Captaincy irritate referees more than you would like.

Hartley is less reliable, Croft is too timid, Palmer is 32 and is only a stop gap before the likes of Parling, Attwood and Garvey step up.

Isnt Parling about 28.....

I'm hoping that everyone will go into the training week up in Leeds on a clean slate, I hope there is no favouritism and every player is given an equal chance to fight for their position in the side. For example Dan Cole may expect to start for England, however Matt Stevens is much more experienced and has always been potentially world-class, England must see him solely as a tight-head, he could be a top quality player for us, if he keeps in discipline. Similarly I could see Parling overtaking Palmer by the end of the six nations. Mouritz Botha is a powerful scrummaging lock, so I wouldn't be surprised to see Marler, Hartley and Stevens in the starting XV with Botha and Palmer behind them.

Thats the problem its always remaind potential...its never been realised as far as im concerned...and dont see how it will now...Cole is still only 24/25 has numerous caps and is excellent at the what a prop should do...ie prop...and ruck etc.

I also personally feel Tom Wood is extremely over-rated, he was solid in the six nations last year but was not spectacular, he definitely wasn't our star player. He is good in the line-out, but he's not a particularly good ball carrier, he's not particularly good at the breakdown and he's quite skinny and lightweight. In my opinion I wouldn't have started with him anyway in the backrow.

Did you not see the Ireland game last year? The guy was THE ONLY England forward in the thick of it...whilst the rest were going backwards at warp speed. He was immense. The potential he has is high. Robshaw and Wood on the flanks would be great to see as an England fan..

I understand your infatuation with Robshaw, r4eng, and i'm sure he will play very well for England. But the facts as we know them are these: he has one England cap from a game against Argentina in 2009 where he didn't particularly stand out and wasn't selected again. His form over the past 12 to 18 months has been excellent and he richly deserves to start. It does not however, make him an automatic selection as Captain all of a sudden.

As far as Matt Stevens goes, as you say he has always had 'potential' but to claim he should be in instead of Cole on current form is, I feel pretty wide of the mark. Cole is a much more reliable scrummager at the moment, and I agree Stevens is a TH and not really LH, but he's currently second choice behind Nieto for Sarries. His scrummaging at times can be questionable, but he does offer some good breakdown work when i've seen him play.

I agree that Palmer is a choice purely for the 6N, but so is Lancaster and the rest, and in the current disastrous situation re: experience and injuries in the side means he'd represent a bit of stability.

As far as your opinion of Tom Wood goes I simply cannot agree with your assessment. He was Aviva Player of the Season last year, performed superbly in the 6N, contrary to your assessment and was widely tipped to take the captaincy. He is neither ineffective at the breakdown (which is why he plays 7 for Saints and would have been played there by England) nor underpowered when carrying. He's made some superb breaks in the Jeff and if you look at his open park work in the Italy game, his reading and understanding of space is superb for a forward.

Chjw131 wrote:
As far as your opinion of Tom Wood goes I simply cannot agree with your assessment. He was Aviva Player of the Season last year, performed superbly in the 6N, contrary to your assessment and was widely tipped to take the captaincy. He is neither ineffective at the breakdown (which is why he plays 7 for Saints and would have been played there by England) nor underpowered when carrying. He's made some superb breaks in the Jeff and if you look at his open park work in the Italy game, his reading and understanding of space is superb for a forward.

Wood is an extraordinary player. He carries very well for his size, and his athleticism causes problems for many teams. Also, he's tenacious on the floor and therefore fits the bill as a 7. No doubt that he would be starting there come the 6N alongside Robshaw if he weren't injured.

Thank you GeordieFalcon, Chjw131 & bluestonevedder - I was trying to write a reply to robshaw4england but kept getting distracted here at work and by the time I got back to it found that you 3 had each covered exactly what I was going to say anyway.

On to the question of captaincy. I agree with the majority that it would be wrong (and unfair) to make Robshaw captain. Without doubt he should start (at 7 for me now that Wood is injured) but he needs to establish himself as an automatic pick before he is even considered for the captaincy and like others have said he does seem to rub referees up the wrong way. People mention Hartley's discipline but when as he ever let England down? He's an experienced international and captains his club team in the toughest club competition in the NH (HC). I'm not usually a fan of a specialist position being captain as you have the whole not wanting to remove the captain from the pitch during tight situations when there could be a case for fresh legs in that particular position, but in these circumstances I think he is the best available for the job. I know Palmer captained Leeds many years ago but if the RFU are serious about the overseas rule then what message does it sent out if they make Palmer captain, even if he did sign the contract pre agreement? Also is he guaranteed to start all 5 games in this years tournament?

Saull should be nowhere near the England side, still surprised he managed to sneak in the Saxons tbh.

I'd be worried about Clark, the lad has potential at 6 but is a bit of a liability.

"Well if Lawes plays, then he will make the tough carries"

The way Lawes goes when he carries is backwards, a talented player but carrying is not one of his assets

I heard someone commentate that he had a bit of the 'Spanish Galleon' about him!

I wouldn't hesitate to start Robshaw, but if his idea of good captaincy is handing the opposition the game by turning down 3 points in front of the sticks when losing by 1 point, then I think we should look elsewhere for that role.

I agree with all those who think Robshaw should not be captain. He is a great "leader by example" and as everyone is so find of saying we need leaders all over the pitch.

Captaincy is largely about ref management these days and that is certainly something England have lacked for a while and not something Robshaw is very good at.

Hartley is an obvious choice because he has plenty of caps and captains Saints but as others have said he has plenty in his plate.

Don't be surprised if you see Dowson as captain. He is a little be older and more experienced than the rest, he was Lancaster's captain in the Saxons for quite some time (rather successfully) and although he has no caps to his name he's probably won't feel the pressure of expectation as others might. To be honest it is the only reason I can think Lancaster included him in the group at 30. He is good but not outstandingly better than some of the younger guys.