5 moves to help England Rugby

In another thread (the Northampton signings one) I was talking about how Twelvetrees to the Saints could be a good move for England (as well as Twelvetrees and the Saints), and it got me thinking about what other moves I would make if I had a degree of omnipotency over English Rugby. So here is whet I came up with:

1. Billy Twelvetrees to Northampton. With Downey leaving, Twelvetrees could move across the East Midlands and walk into the first team. With Pisi outside him Northampton would have a very threatening centre partnership, and playing consistently at 12 for a Heineken Cup team would be good for Twelvetrees' development and could help him force his way into the England squad.

2. Rory Clegg to Wasps. Nick Evans is one of the best ever imports into the Premiership in my opinion, and Clegg has probably learnt a shed-load from his tutelage. But now Clegg needs to go somewhere and be the main man, and Wasps, a club with great pedigree, are in dire need of a fly-half. With Simpson playing at 9 and Flutey and Waldouck on the centres and Wade on the wing, Wasps would have the makings of a very exciting backline and could again become a force in the Premiership.

3. James Haskell to Northampton. With Wilson leaving at the end of the season, Northampton need an 8 and, with Croft, Wood and Robshaw, do England really need flankers? If Haskell went to Northampton, he would play 8 week in, week out (with EPS squad members Wood, Dowson and Clark rotating on the flanks) and would get Heineken Cup rugby, a real test of his abilities at 8. Haskell would still be able to fill in at 6 or 7, but getting the chance to improve his control at the base of the scrum would really allow him to challenge for the 8 shirt, which is something the England backrow needs.

4. Dan Cole to Harlequins. Again like Clegg, Dan Cole has probably learnt a lot from Martin Castrogiovanni and, although Cole gets a lot more gametime then Clegg, I think he would benefit from a move away and getting to nail down a starting shirt. While I am a fan of James Johnston, I think a Quins front row of Marler, Gray/Brooker and Cole has a good look to it (and a lot of appeal as an England fan), while Cole leaving Leicester would give Brookes a chance to benefit as Castrogiovanni's understudy.

5. Sam Tomkins to Leicester Tigers. Possibly a bit of a controversial one, but I think Leicester could do with some back three players, and Tomkins is a phenomenal rugby player. I can think of no better place for him to learn this code than at Leicester and he could play as a utility back three until he settles down into one position. Him and Tait on the wings next season with the experienced head of Murphy at full-back could form a very dangerous back three, outside what is a good Tigers midfield.

So there are my 5 shouts. Some possible, some improbable, but that is what I would like to see. What does everyone else think? Which English players are in desperate need of a move? And which clubs would benefit most from having them?

Well Twelvetrees is off to Glos....

I think Dan Cole actually benefits from sharing the 3 shirt with Castro. Player burn out is often talked about and has to be balanced with enough game time. I think he gets that balance at the moment.

Clegg is a good shout but Haskell has already agreed a deal (3 years) to return to Wasps from next season.

and there I was thinking the thread would start

1. Secure the breakdown

2. faster off load from this and the base of the scrums

3. 12 and 13 to actually off load the ball properly after breaking the line/drawing defenders in


etc etc

I think Dan Cole actually benefits from sharing the 3 shirt with Castro. Player burn out is often talked about and has to be balanced with enough game time. I think he gets that balance at the moment

+1. Cole starts in big games and plays 30 mins in big games he doesn't start. There is little pressure on him to play every week and he gets to compete with probably the best tighthead in the world.

Clegg at Wasps? So he can get beat up on a regular basis as the Wasps pack goes back at speed. Now Clegg to Sale might well be a good move or indeed Clegg to LI where he could run the show when Bowden leaves but not have to worry about points kicking.

Twelvetrees has gone to Glaws and to be fair it is the second best move he could have made (after staying at Tigers, I'm a Tigers fan). Teaming up with Burns and Trinder with the outside back options available will allow him to show off his skills every week and help him develop his organistaional abilities. At Saints running crash ball he'd have been wasted.

Haskell has already signed for Wasps. He'll probably play 8 there anyway.

Sam Tomkins has signed on for another 3 years with Wigan RL. Tigers wouldn't blow the massive cash needed to bring him over anyway.

I know Haskell has signed for Wasps but I do wonder if it will actually happen. The club is struggling financially, is up for sale, desperately need a new home ground, not going well in the league with no signs that will change anytime soon and I'm sure Haskell would want to play in the HC. My guess would be that although he has signed there will be some kind of get out clause that can be activated.

Agree with fkaS - Clegg to LI would be a good move with Homer on kicking duties. Think it would be good for LI as well as they need a decent out and out 10 at the club.

Twelvetrees to Saints would have been a terrible link up for both parties. Saints need a big name crash ball 12 for the game they play.

Agree that Cole probably does benefit from rotating with Castro (as does Castro). When Cole does play for England he always seems to have enough stamina to last the full 80 if required. I think the having 2 props on the bench has actually reduced the ability of some front row forwards to last full games but Cole doesn't seem affected by this. Perhaps the less minutes he has on the field actually helps when it comes to only having one prop on the bench.

I'm not sure Tomkins will see out his full contract at Wigan (although I hope he does), especially if his brother goes well at Saracens. He's already just about done all he can in domestic RL here so can see him either moving to Union in a year or two or moving down under to play RL.

I think the having 2 props on the bench has actually reduced the ability of some front row forwards to last full games but Cole doesn't seem affected by this.

It's also interesting to note that the number of injuries Cole and Castro have had since interchanging regularly has been tiny. Castro had a couple of injuries a few season ago and would miss games but since he has started to regularly swap with Cole neither has picked up any thing serious (apart from Castro's injury at the RWC, note not interchanging) and have missed very little in the way of games (touch wood). I'd say it's doing both of them good and leaving them fit and in form for much longer periods of time.

It also helps that they play carrying less injuries. Considering the amount of game time both Tiny and Mujarti have played over the last 2 years they have been thankfully serious injury free but their form is not what what it was, where as Cole and Castro seem to have maintained their form over the same period. When Tiny takes to the pitch nowadays he has enough strapping to pass for an extra from the Scorpion King or something.

There interchange time is also usually based on a set number of scrums and monitoring of their workload through the game, rather than on a set time.

As someone pointed out 36 is going to get the chance to prove that he can consistently produce at 12 with Gloucester.

Clegg should get more gametime next seaosn, but yes he does need to be playing regulalry to get back in the frame. However hes got a long wayy to go to get up the pecking order at FH, England have Flood as a more than adequate number one with the likes of Burns and Farrell pressing cases to be understudy. Clegg is just one of a number of players who could pressure his spot or replace him when injured, but its not going to change Englands fortunes overnight and isnt really an area of weakness once Floods fit.

Haskell will come back and I agree we have more than enough 6's who can fill in at 7. He could go on t be a very good 8, but he needs to learn that game. In the meantime Morgan has a chance to make him irrelevant.

Tomkins...Tigers have had a surplus of not quite a full back not quite a winger players over the last few years. He'd be competing with Hamilton and Tait plus Morris to be the new Murphy (thats assuming Agulla is leaving). They are more interested in getting an out and out try scoring winger ( probably Benjamin by the sounds of it)
Not sure how it would help England out. They have Sharples, Monye, Armitage already despite having ditched Cueto as well as guys like Goode and May to come through who have all round skill sets in the back 3.

(thats assuming Agulla is leaving).

Been confirmed by the BBC Radio Leicester Tigers Correspondent. Thompstone and Benjamin are the players linked with replacing Tuilagi, Robinson and Agulla. Not that Robinson will require much replacing.