Best Slam Record. Federer or Murray?

Who has the best slam record over the past 4 slams? Federer or Murray? Saw this being discussed elsewhere and thought it worthy of its own thread. Also as a big fan of Roger I wanted to jump to his defence. Murray has made 4 straight semi final appearances and Federer has 1 final, 2 semi's and one quarter final. If you look at the ranking of who both players have beaten IMO Federer has the best record.

Federer

2011 FO He beat players ranked 41, 181, 32, 14, 9 and 2 (worth noting that Djokovic was that no. 2!)

2011 Wimbledon 61, 55, 23 and 17

2011 US Open 54, 93, 28, 36 and 11

2012 AO 172, 93, 57, 38 and 11

Federer had wins over 2 players in the top 10, 4 players between 10 - 20 and 2 players between 20-30. He faced 4 players outside the top 80

Murray

2011 FO He beat players ranked 124, 126, 95, 15 and 34

2011 Wimbledon 59, 83, 33, 13 and 44

2011 US Open 64, 41, 26, 84 and 22

2012 AO 77, 101, 46, 92 and 26

Murray didn't beat any players in the top 10. He beat 2 players between 10 -20 and 3 players btween 20 - 30. He faced 7 players outside the top 80.

In addition in the WTF Federer beat players ranked 6, 2, 8, 5 and 6 again (He beat Tsonga twice)

I say who gives a stuff who he or they beat as at the end of the day it is the end result that matters. But if it isn't the end result that matters then all Murray's detractors need to quit using the old chestnut 'Oh he has never won a slam'. It is the detractors choice.

On pure end results there Murray has a better record than Federer. Many will argue but the stats are there.

Come on Hawkeye its a vague comparison, your comparing a 16 time GS champ with somebody who haven't set the stage yet.

CaledonianCraig wrote:
On pure end results there Murray has a better record than Federer. Many will argue but the stats are there.

Oh no. I won't be arguing with you anymore.

If we are talking the past year it is Murray who has done the better. If we are talking tennis careers - no contest Federer wins hands down. Simples.

CaledonianCraig wrote:If we are talking the past year it is Murray who has done the better.

of course.

If we are talking tennis careers - no contest Federer wins hands down. Simples.

Are you sure?

Yes on both counts.

Bottom line is neither of them have won any. So it's a pointless question.

CaledonianCraig wrote:I say who gives a stuff who he or they beat as at the end of the day it is the end result that matters. But if it isn't the end result that matters then all Murray's detractors need to quit using the old chestnut 'Oh he has never won a slam'. It is the detractors choice.

On pure end results there Murray has a better record than Federer. Many will argue but the stats are there.

Well yes I am arguing. Federer beat higher ranked players. Also some would say that a final and a quarter is greater than two semi's. The ranking points reflect this. A final and a quarter 1200 + 360 = 1560. Two semi's 2 x 720 = 1440. Federer has the better slam record.

I'm confused Craig. Do YOU actually believe in using the marginsl differnce (even ignoring Hawkeyes astute anakysis) in recent Slams to suggest Murray is better?

That's YOU, not other peoples measures. You.

For the last 50 posts you've been holding the argument but hiding it behind some unnamed people who allegedly devised this method. I'd like to know whether it's YOUR opinion.

Me personally. Well if this is over the calendar year then obviously last year's Australian Open then Murray was beaten finalist compared to Federer beaten semi-finalist so Murray holds the advantage there. In the French Open roles were reversed with Federer getting to the final and losing whilst Murray excelled expectations by reaching the semis on clay. At Wimbledon Federer through away a two set lead (the first time ever) to lose in the quarters whilst Andy Murray lost in four sets in the semis so Murray wins the accolades there. At the US Open both Federer and Murray lost in the semis with Murray losing in four to Nadal and Federer losing in five to Djokovic so better tournament for Federer. And here in the Australian Open both again lost in the semis with Federer losing in four to Nadal and Murray in five to Djokovic so Murray has the edge here.

By my estimation in these slams that is Murray 3 Federer 2. Now how would YOU judge them bogbrush?

You are only as good as your last match, so both Federer and Murray are losers. I know this might come as a shock to many, but I thought it needed to be mentioned.

I don't think there's much in it, but Fed was the man who stopped Novak from doing the Grand Slam and held M.P against him at the USO.

Murray did make the AO final but he didn't have to beat a fellow top 4 player to do it.

You can't really say. The players Murray loss to in slams over the past year were the same players Federer lost to as well. Take the FO for example, it was a little blip by Djokovic but would Federer made the final had he played Nadal in the semi finals? No chance and his record will be SF SF QF SF to Murrays F SF SF SF.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Me personally. Well if this is over the calendar year then obviously last year's Australian Open then Murray was beaten finalist compared to Federer beaten semi-finalist so Murray holds the advantage there. In the French Open roles were reversed with Federer getting to the final and losing whilst Murray excelled expectations by reaching the semis on clay. At Wimbledon Federer through away a two set lead (the first time ever) to lose in the quarters whilst Andy Murray lost in four sets in the semis so Murray wins the accolades there. At the US Open both Federer and Murray lost in the semis with Murray losing in four to Nadal and Federer losing in five to Djokovic so better tournament for Federer. And here in the Australian Open both again lost in the semis with Federer losing in four to Nadal and Murray in five to Djokovic so Murray has the edge here.

By my estimation in these slams that is Murray 3 Federer 2. Now how would YOU judge them bogbrush?

So YOU support a ranking system based over 5 Slams. You can stop laying the stupid idea off on others then?

That's cool, it does render so many of your recent posts obsolete, where you I repeatedly said it was other people's ideas.
Great idea by the way, although Hawkeye rather shot your foot off but that won't stop you limping along.

Love conquers all.

You just need to give your opinion oh wisest one that is all. But as hawkeye brought this discussion over from the other thread which was over the past calendar year then do think hawkeye (we know her anti-Murray sentiments see previous 15 anti-Murray posts she has created) is warping the original point to suit Federer but there you go. Have fun twisting things as much as you can folks.

CaledonianCraig.

If you try to make a point that Murray is better than Federer. It's not "anti-Murray" to defend Federer. Are you being anti-Federer?

Nope not at all as I have said time and again he is the GOAT but at the moment his standard his below that level. It is not sacrilige to say other players have better records or better game than him at the moment and I am not just talking about Murray here.

McEnroe (chosen to avoid controversy)

1984 - 83-2 W/L
1985 - 71-10 W/L

Federer

2006 - 92-5
2007 - 68-9
2008 - 66-15
2009 - 61-12
2010 - 65-13
2011 - 64-12

IMVHO, it is a bit unfair to compare Murray and Federer's historical records.

Comparing Federer to almost anyone is going to make the other player look mediocre.

For example, comparing Federer to Djokovic has the same pitfalls as Federer-Murray.

I do not see much value, other than the desire to denigrate Murray's current form. I am surprised someone has not yet compared Kukushkin vs Murray @Brisbane and Kukushkin vs Murray AO 2012.

Why does any of this even matter? Fed probably has the better game right now and has a more impressive performance in the slams if we're looking at the last 4. It's not about Murray getting ahead on some subjective list of who he's better than. It's just about him improving his game so he can beat anyone in front of him.

I agree it doesn't really matter. However how can you say Federer has had the more impressive slam record in the last four slams? French Open - Federer edged it, Wimbledon - Murray edged it, US Open - Federer edged it, Australian Open - Murray edged it.

However, both have work to do to win a slam at the moment I willingly agree.

But edged it by how much if you had to put numbers to it? Then you get to hand it to one or the other instead of them being 2-2 in your post. I'd probably end up giving Fed the higher number but it doesn't really matter and is not worth much energy.

I thought this article was about comparing slam "records" and not who is a better player.

On statistics alone, Murray has a slight advantage, but that is based on a 12 month window that is not currently part of a calandar year.

These stats may well change to the betterment of either player in the next 11 months, but as we are concerned with the 12 months of slams from the FO 2011 to the AO 2012, Murray is slightly ahead, therefore he has a better "record".

They are even on results over the last 12 months hence comparing performances in their respective losses.

Surely FSSQ beats SSSS or at any rate at least equal, and only Federer beat one of the top 2 and came within a match point of beating Djokovic again at the USO. It's no contest.

Yes Henman Bill but when this topic was based on was a debate carried over from another thread that covered the last five slams and hawkeye decided to narrow it down a bit so the stats favoured Roger. And yes it is extremely close.

So your theory that Andy is ahead NOW depends on the 2010 AO? Even the ranking system is chucking that on Monday!

Put it this way bogbrush (and this why this situation developed) it is very close but yet Tenez made out it was a ridiculous statement when it was not. Akin to somebody saying it it ridiculous to suggest say Djokovic semi win in the US Open V Federer was close. In other words the margins are slim and yet Tenez made out it was a ridiculous claim when it wasn't.

It would be worthwhile waiting till FO/W/O to comeback to this debate.

No one has mentioned the 25-0 (Federer) or 17-0 (Murray) streaks, so far.

CaladonianCraig

Why the last 5 slams? It should be over the last year or if you favour a two year ranking system the last 2 years. I don't think you'de get much backing for 2 years although I suspect that Federer would still come out on top.

At the end of the day I agree it isn't important really. Both players will be more concerned with other matters like how to raise their games up another level or two. I wonder how Lendl is at improving Andy's serve as that is one area that needs working on. Another is break point conversion - he needs to work on taking more of these chances in these matches. Also to eliminate sets like set four from his game.

laverfan wrote:It would be worthwhile waiting till FO/W/O to comeback to this debate.

No one has mentioned the 25-0 (Federer) or 17-0 (Murray) streaks, so far.

Do you think Federer is going to win all 3!

Also I think your being a bit mean to CaladonianCraig to point out another area were Federer is ahead of Murray. That is just rubbing salt in the wound...

CaledonianCraig wrote:At the end of the day I agree it isn't important really. Both players will be more concerned with other matters like how to raise their games up another level or two. I wonder how Lendl is at improving Andy's serve as that is one area that needs working on. Another is break point conversion - he needs to work on taking more of these chances in these matches. Also to eliminate sets like set four from his game.

I have no idea. Maybe he is going to show Murray some videos of when he beat McEnroe at RG?

hawkeye wrote:CaladonianCraig

Why the last 5 slams? It should be over the last year or if you favour a two year ranking system the last 2 years. I don't think you'de get much backing for 2 years although I suspect that Federer would still come out on top.

You started this topic on the back of the debate on the other thread which banbrotam said something like Murray is ahead of Federer now okay. He took stick for that and I said if you take the last five slams then it isn't a ridiculous statement so that is why five is kicking around. Even if you want to make it four it is still too close to call but some felt it was a ridulous statement. Not as ridulous as pretending Federer is in some way miles ahead of Murray going by slams in the past year, or even looking at other titles won I think you'll find Murray won more titles but Fed won WTF - so again very close.

hawkeye wrote:

laverfan wrote:It would be worthwhile waiting till FO/W/O to comeback to this debate.

No one has mentioned the 25-0 (Federer) or 17-0 (Murray) streaks, so far.

Do you think Federer is going to win all 3!

Whoever wins 7 matches at FO/W. In the O case, I hope it is Bo5 for all matches, not a Bo3/Bo5 mix. (SF, F only).

hawkeye wrote:Also I think your being a bit mean to CaladonianCraig to point out another area were Federer is ahead of Murray. That is just rubbing salt in the wound...

You seem to ignore my first statement. Federer is not ahead, he was ahead. It is in the past. FO/W/O 2012 are in the future, as of this writing.

Let us ask CC if he feels slighted/demeaned by my post, shall we, rather than speculate? What say you, CC?

Federer or Murray?

Well couldn't you just say Roger must be bitterly disappointed - especially given his matchpoints against Djokovic (squandered just like in the previous years's US Open)?

With Andy it's more difficult since this loss to Djokovic is the only time he's had a real chance of winning one of these really big matches.

Ignoring the end of season masters (obviously Federer won) and sticking just to the slams then little to choose between them.

Federer.

This is the most ridiculous thread ever.

Why not ask who has the better Slam record Sampras or Henman?

Tedious and wumming.

legendkillar wrote:This is the most ridiculous thread ever.

Why not ask who has the better Slam record Sampras or Henman?

Tedious and wumming.

In the words of the great Stephen King SSDD.

Strange that Hawkeye wasn't asking this question 15 days ago!!!

Murray's now twice been vanuqished by the eventual winner. Fed just the once!!

You see you can do owt with stats

Hawkeye's opening post is pretty neutral actually. I think she only asked the question because it just came up now.