Is this a strong or a weak era? Confusing

by Tennisanorak Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:57 am

First topic message reminder :

Given that one of Federer/ Nadal/ Djokovic have to lose before the finals and two have to lose before the tournament ends, it is a strong era. Those are 3 potential all time greats playing together. They could end up with more than 40 grand slams between them.

However, given that the top 4 have made it to the semis in 3 of the 4 slams (with Federer narrowly missing out at Wimbledon), it is a weak era.

Which is it? Or is it neither?

by Josiah Maiestas Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:30 pm

bogbrush wrote:
Y I Man wrote:Sorry SA, but no libellous stuff can be posted on v2 at all. We are now in the media's eye because of how successful v2 has become. I dont fancy going to court.
I've meant to post my strong approval and congratulations to the way 606v2 has carefully managed but permitted a debate on this controversial subject.

It would have been so easy to close it at origin, which would have been awful, but it's been very well handled.

I think most posters have responded responsibly too, which is as I'd hope.

You's should have seen the comments on bleacherreport after Djokovic won his last AO, upset Nadal fans accusing him of taking all sorts of banned "products"...so really it's not just Fed fans who have come out with the accusations to another player.

by socal1976 Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:33 pm

No JM but it is basically fed fans on this forum who go to town on the game, every other modern champion, and not just their game and style but their character.

by stratocumulus Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:37 pm

I am a fedfan and I salute Djoko for showing that how ordinary a player Nadal is!

I will agree with the most the quality of the tennis is not great when Nole beats Nadal as he has to beat Nadal in his own game which will never be pretty, neverthless Djoko has given some scinitillating matches against Andy, Fed and others.

As a fedfan I am really thankful to Djoko to bring some semblance to this game of tennis and for saving it from disaster.

by amritia3ee Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:40 pm

stratocumulus wrote:I am a fedfan and I salute Djoko for showing that how ordinary a player Nadal is!

8-2 Slam H2H against an ordinary player, thats not good news Sad

by Josiah Maiestas Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:42 pm

I am a fedfan and I salute Djoko for showing that how ordinary a player Nadal is!

I've always felt Nadal was average on hardcourts and a large range of players could take him out. On grass and clay he deserves more respect than hardcourt!

I just hope there's a new winner at RG for once.

by stratocumulus Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:47 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:
I am a fedfan and I salute Djoko for showing that how ordinary a player Nadal is!
I've always felt Nadal was average on hardcourts and a large range of players could take him out. On grass and clay he deserves more respect than hardcourt!

I just hope there's a new winner at RG for once.

JM, probably agree with you but Djoko has defintely done a service to the game. It would have been a travesty if Nadal had managed to win around 16 slams on these slower courts where good tennis has no place. I remember that when Roddick met Fed first time in Wimby final, he was the favorite to win as no other player was managing to return his serve. Fed not only returned the serve but also stamped his authority on that time's grass courts.

For purists, it is no less than a trauma to see those grass courts playing like green clay.

by amritia3ee Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:51 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:
I've always felt Nadal was average on hardcourts

Then why does Fed have a 1-5 record vs Nadal on HC outdoor against him.

by **JuliusHMarx** Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:51 pm

stratocumulus wrote:For purists, it is no less than a trauma to see those grass courts playing like green clay.

For purists, it's probably a trauma to see AO and USO on hard courts not grass.

by stratocumulus Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:58 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
stratocumulus wrote:For purists, it is no less than a trauma to see those grass courts playing like green clay.

For purists, it's probably a trauma to see AO and USO on hard courts not grass.

JHM, I remember very clearly as how the game used to be so different on different surfaces but now everywhere you go it is same predictable tennis. Baseline bashing, negative game, defend defend and defend more and just rely on opponent to make an error.
However it was good to see djoko neutralising that in last 7 finals.

by stratocumulus Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:59 pm

Is ATP not trying to find out as why there were so many retirements during the USO 2011?

by Josiah Maiestas Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:00 pm

I'm surprised at how poor and slow the surface has turned into in Melbourne. There will never be any major upsets in tennis with endless rallies as they are..

by stratocumulus Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:02 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:I'm surprised at how poor and slow the surface has turned into in Melbourne. There will never be any major upsets in tennis with endless rallies as they are..

I am pretty sure if Dolg and Hasse played in the late 90s they should have been in the top 10 but it is a travesty (oxymoron) that Dolg, Hasse= not so good player of tennis laughing

by **JuliusHMarx** Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:07 pm

stratocumulus wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
stratocumulus wrote:For purists, it is no less than a trauma to see those grass courts playing like green clay.

For purists, it's probably a trauma to see AO and USO on hard courts not grass.

JHM, I remember very clearly as how the game used to be so different on different surfaces but now everywhere you go it is same predictable tennis. Baseline bashing, negative game, defend defend and defend more and just rely on opponent to make an error.
However it was good to see djoko neutralising that in last 7 finals.

I was simply trying to get to the bottom of what a tennis purist is. Grass and clay courts with wooden rackets and natural gut strings would seem to be the most 'pure' form of tennis, since that's pretty much how it was for several decades.
Although I do agree that the homogenisation of courts needs to be addressed and some balance restored to reward more attacking tennis. But I'm not sure that attacking tennis is more 'pure' than defensive tennis.

by amritia3ee Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:12 pm

No Julius the new rule is that only if Federer wins the tournament it is a 'pure' tournament. If anyone else wins it is officially 'unpure.'

by stratocumulus Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:14 pm

I too agree with you JHM that there should be a mix and balance of the conditions. One thing is very clear that wimby does not play like how it used to in 80s during becker and edberg's times. That was probably the reason that despite of making so final and being no. 1 lendl could never win it.
Winning Wimby was always special as it required extra skill.
On another post hawkeye was debating on Djoko not getting that much popularity and fed was even popular without winning wimbledon.

Fed's stakes went high because he beat Sampras at Wimbledon which was unimaginabble during those days. Also the way Fed handled hewitt and roddick that was also excpetional.

Rod and Hewitt both were high headed and Fed came as a relief and played the aesthetic tennis, hence the popularity. I cant undertand as why ATP is not thinking towards changing the speed of the court to change the way tennis is played these days.

Media might be calling Aus open an epic but it was no way better than Hass and Almagro playing against each other.

by Josiah Maiestas Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:22 pm

No Julius the new rule is that only if Federer wins the tournament it is a 'pure' tournament. If anyone else wins it is officially 'unpure.'

I didn't see many people (his fans) saying Federer played "pure" tennis at all when he beat Roddick in 09, so there's your little theory quashed!

by **JuliusHMarx** Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:22 pm

amritia3ee wrote:No Julius the new rule is that only if Federer wins the tournament it is a 'pure' tournament. If anyone else wins it is officially 'unpure.'

I think you mean 'impure', but that's just me being an English language purist Smile

by Josiah Maiestas Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:24 pm

In fact I was rather embarrassed for Fed to be holding the trophy that day, and cringed when he put on the famous "15" jacket!!

Felt sad for Roddick that day Hug

by stratocumulus Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:25 pm

I think you mean 'impure', but that's just me being an English language purist
Yahoo

by Veejay Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:52 pm

Simple_Analyst wrote:Lol YI Man don't edit any post. Having amusing reads on this subject where it seems only Federer fans a doping expects and accuse players who beat him consistently.18-9 surely is a factor here

Vjeey or what ever the name is, you are claiming to be a doping expert and knows more than Socal. You know you can be anything you want on the internet right? So far all you have written is long posts with no substance with a sense or two found hidden in there. Perhaps you can profile the drug cheats for us and tell us why you think they are using drugs and provide evidence. Me, i'm curious.

Yes I know I can be anything I want on the internet,in fact anyone can educate themselves about different PED's just by google them,so why are so many people talking about the subject and clearly knowing nothing about what they are talking about,if they did they would 100% agree with everything I have said
If you don't want to believe I have personal experience then thats fine I won't lose sleep over it,my issue here has always been Socals double standards,not whether or not he/she knows anything about PED's
Why is it ok for Socal to have a visual opinion and if I base my opinion on my vision my opinion is classed as "low"
Why is it ok for Socal to point a finger at Wanye Odenisk and use that as means to prove there is a problem in the sport but if I link Nadal to PED's its nothing but i"innuendo" because I don't have proof.But yet Socal doesn't have proof Wayne doped either
Anyone who thinks there is a problem in the sport should be open to the idea that any single athlete could be doping,so why openly admit you believe the sport isn't clean and then contradict yourself by saying its unfair to suspect Nadal when theres no proof,when Socal is making blanket statements without proof
I already spoke about PED's on the thread I started and I was warned when I singled athletes out and named the drugs I believe they are taking.Some of my comments have been deleted or edited others are still there,I don't have the energy to repeat everything I typed there so have a look and if you have any further questions I will be happy to answer them via private message

by Simple_Analyst Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:09 pm

Me? Educate my self on PED and search the internet for niggling clues because my favourite player keeps getting beating by another player? Lol you are confusing me with someone else. I couldn't care less who you accuse of using PEDs.

by Veejay Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:14 pm

amritia3ee wrote:No era with players like Federer and Nadal playing can be weak, but arguable if not for Fed and Nadal on clay 2003-2007 would be very weak; i.e. there was not much competition for Fed apart from Nadal on clay.

I see your thread has been locked,I was going to comment on it so I thought I may as well do it here..

"Not at all because tennis is because of Federer. Tennis fans are federer fans. There is no surprise that why any forum is full of federer fans and only some anti tennis fans.' While I don't fully agree with this I can understand the point this person is making
I don't think any true fan of tennis would ever support a player who resorts to such tactics and continually shows such poor sportsmanship.It indicates they are a Nadal fan,but not a true tennis fan.I stick with my opinion that if you are a true fan of the sport not just a particular player you would be disgusted by such tactics,bending and breaking the rules and just all over all poor sportsmanship and inconsistencies about injuries coming from the Nadal camp.Where I disagree is that tennis fans are only Federer fans.I have seen many fans of other players on other forums voice their passion for the game and their dislike for such poor sportsmanship.Its not only Federer fans who voice their opinion of Nadal,perhaps not round here but its certainly happening elsewhere

'Oh minions The Nadull's fans are mostly teenage girls and middle-aged spinsters; they know nothing about tennis. Most of them had never watched a tennis match prior to 2005. His (Federer's) popularity is only gleaned from the true connoiseurs of tennis'

I know a Nadal fan who has the luxury of traveling around the world to see him play.His opinion of other Nadal fans that he meets around the world is mostly consistent with the above comment.Of course its not fair to make such generalisations as not every fan is like that,but every female tennis fan I know is a die hard Nadal fan who sits there drooling over him rather then admire his game.The reason I say this is because we see a similar athlete in Monfils,we see that explosive power Nadal plays with in Tsonga and now Djokovic is grinding out points the way Nadal always has.But yet I havent seen or heard a single one of them rave about the players I just mentioned,where as I hear a lot of Federer fans admire Djokovic or Gasquet,or any other player whose style they enjoy watching
I always ask female Nadal fans if they would be a fan of Nadal if he looked like Davydenko.I assume you're female so I would like to know if you would?

by Veejay Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:19 pm

Simple_Analyst wrote:Me? Educate my self on PED and search the internet for niggling clues because my favourite player keeps getting beating by another player? Lol you are confusing me with someone else. I couldn't care less who you accuse of using PEDs.

Then why are wasting your time here commenting and asking me questions?
If you didn't care you wouldn't care to know and if you wouldn't care to know you wouldn't ask me and waste time commenting on the subject
Now if you said it bugged you then I would believe you..but Im not buying the fact that you don't care.If you didn't care you wouldn't be here
The fact that you link loses to the motive behind such suspicions proves your ignorance about the subject
I suspect Serena,is that because she beats Federer?
I suspect Henin,is that because she beats Federer?
I am open to the possibility that any athlete including Federer could be doping,is that because they all beat Federer?

by Josiah Maiestas Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:29 pm

Then why are wasting your time here commenting and asking me questions?

He always comes on here looking for a fight with anyone who questions Nadal (then accuses you of being a Federer worshipper (please)).

He's probably been writing the same thing for years.. Laugh

by Veejay Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:35 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:
Then why are wasting your time here commenting and asking me questions?
He always comes on here looking for a fight with anyone who questions Nadal (then accuses you of being a Federer worshipper (please)).

He's probably been writing the same thing for years..

Well then he is in for a rude awakening ,I am probably the last person anyone would ever want to get into a debate with cause I don't know if anyone has noticed but Im always up for a little confrontation and I can argue circles around people even when the subject is nothing Very Happy

by **JuliusHMarx** Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:08 pm

Veejay wrote:Anyway laugh all you want..its obvious you're laughing alone

You've upset me there VJ - because I wish I'd thought of that one Smile

by Guest Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:19 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
Veejay wrote:Anyway laugh all you want..its obvious you're laughing alone

You've upset me there VJ - because I wish I'd thought of that one

Haha, that was a good response VJ, short and sweet.. and true.

by amritia3ee Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:22 pm

Veejay wrote:
"Not at all because tennis is because of Federer. Tennis fans are federer fans. There is no surprise that why any forum is full of federer fans and only some anti tennis fans.' While I don't fully agree with this I can understand the point this person is making
I don't think any true fan of tennis would ever support a player... It indicates they are a Nadal fan,but not a true tennis fan.

Who are you to decide who 'true' tennis fans should support, everyone has their own opinion...

Veejay wrote:

I always ask female Nadal fans is they would be a fan if Nadal looked like Davydenko.I assume you're female so I would like to know if you would?

Firstly huge generalisation.
Secondly I'm a straight male

You're sentence 'I assume...' shows a lot. You keep on assuming things without having hard evidence.

by Josiah Maiestas Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:25 pm

I always ask female Nadal fans is they would be a fan if Nadal looked like Davydenko.I assume you're female so I would like to know if you would?

Nadal is exactly like Bjorn Borg in that regard.

by amritia3ee Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:25 pm

Veejay wrote:and even if Nadal never beat Federer ever I would have those suspicions

Sure you would Ok!

by Josiah Maiestas Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:27 pm

amritia3ee wrote:
Veejay wrote:and even if Nadal never beat Federer ever I would have those suspicions

Sure you would

Now who's making the assumptions? laughing

by amritia3ee Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:29 pm

by bogbrush Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:31 pm

emancipator wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
Veejay wrote:Anyway laugh all you want..its obvious you're laughing alone

You've upset me there VJ - because I wish I'd thought of that one

Haha, that was a good response VJ, short and sweet.. and true.

It's unanimous.

by Josiah Maiestas Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:59 pm

bogbrush, why did the other thread get locked... Laugh

by amritia3ee Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:02 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:bogbrush, why did the other thread get locked...

He posted something; the mods deleted his comment and then locked the thread. I dunno why it was locked.

by Josiah Maiestas Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:12 pm

Yea he probably posted the truth, that used to be how I got few times banned. Whistle

by stratocumulus Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:19 pm

Not at all because tennis is because of Federer. Tennis fans are federer fans. Nadal does have winning record over federer but you see the result of that. Tennis is dying. What used to be a real beautiful game is a mere bashline duel now. Same point is played over and over again. Even at AO although Nadal beat fed in semi but tennis lost as Nadal did nothing but kept chasing those dead balls and sending them back. There is no surprise that why any forum is full of federer fans and only handful of anti tennis fans. V2 has to SA and Amrita and it wont be a surrpsie if they both turn out to be the same person.

So even Federer lost, his tennis is winner and his legacy will always remain. Post the links for Fed's best shots and Nadal's best shots and then let everyone see the difference.

I had no intentions to reply to an uncouth person like you but you keep on harping to my comment, here is my comment everyone to see. I said tennis fans are federer fans and where did I say non federer fans are anti tennis. I said clearly that there are anti tennis fans but I did not define them, You Assuemed. You need to learn how to debate in civil way which will be too much to expect from you.

Also I have said repeatedly that I am a big fan of Nole and Murray. The final of Aus open was played on Fri when Murray and Nole delighted the crowd with exhilirating tennis.

You are still sulking on a comment of mine which you have intrepreted with your understanding of English language. The whole board has an idea as what is your level of understanding of Englsih is. Won't it be better for you to participate in a forum where you might understand thins better.

So let me make myself clear again, Fed fans know tennis and that's why delight in Nole's stretching domination of one dimenstional Nadal. The only reason I like Djoko- Nadal match is to see that look on Nadal's face as " what should I do now", the guy is beating in my own game.

Nadal will never be able to beat djoko again no matter how close he comes. Nadal had the chance at 4-2 but his negative game cost him the match. I did not see Nadal playing a single aggressive shot in the whole 5th set and that is exactly the reason that Nole will prevail again and again and the time is not far when Murray will dish out the same treatment to him.

by amritia3ee Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:25 pm

stratocumulus wrote:Not at all because tennis is because of Federer. Tennis fans are federer fans... There is no surprise that why any forum is full of federer fans and only handful of anti tennis fans.
So even Federer lost, his tennis is winner and his legacy will always remain.
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You are still sulking on a comment of mine which you have intrepreted with your understanding of English language. The whole board has an idea as what is your level of understanding of Englsih is. Won't it be better for you to participate in a forum where you might understand thins better....

So let me make myself clear again, Fed fans know tennis and that's why delight in Nole's stretching domination of one dimenstional Nadal.

Well you definitely said Nadal fans were anti-tennis in one of your earlier posts. And learn how to spell before giving be a lecture on the English language.

by stratocumulus Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:27 pm

That's it a typo is a spelling error for you. Your level of education and mannerism is clear to everyone on this board. I have not changed my post. Either you need glasses or maybe a course in IELTS.

by stratocumulus Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:29 pm

amritia3ee wrote:
stratocumulus wrote:Not at all because tennis is because of Federer. Tennis fans are federer fans... There is no surprise that why any forum is full of federer fans and only handful of anti tennis fans.
So even Federer lost, his tennis is winner and his legacy will always remain.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are still sulking on a comment of mine which you have intrepreted with your understanding of English language. The whole board has an idea as what is your level of understanding of Englsih is. Won't it be better for you to participate in a forum where you might understand thins better....

So let me make myself clear again, Fed fans know tennis and that's why delight in Nole's stretching domination of one dimenstional Nadal.
Well you definitely said Nadal fans were anti-tennis in one of your earlier posts. And learn how to spell before giving be a lecture on the English language.

Well aren't you the same poster who thought it was unpure laughing

. That really explains your understanding of the English. Take my advice and look for a board where your rudimentary English might get apprehended by the rest.

by stratocumulus Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:30 pm

Nadal fans are anti tennis and non fed fans are anti tennis are two different things. Agains you are showing your lack of English language knowledge and understanding of it.

by amritia3ee Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:33 pm

stratocumulus wrote:Nadal fans are anti tennis.

Who are you to say that?

by stratocumulus Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:35 pm

Well if you ask in a civil manner I might have apologised and edited the post but if you treat others like fools and say you are writing garbage, tosh, balh blah and then we are not going anywhere.

by stratocumulus Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:40 pm

And that emancipator comment is not entirely wrong. I have been to O2 arena to watch Nadal play against Berdych. And when Nadal was on the practice court, there were only females to take his photo and many fit the description given by emancipator.
Nadal has the charisma to attract that kind of crowd what's wrong in it? And it's not like that females do not know about tennis or do not like tennis. Laverfan is a female fan and she is one of the best posters on this forum.

by amritia3ee Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:41 pm

Well I'm male and emanc specifically said these female fans know nothing about tennis.

by stratocumulus Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:44 pm

amritia3ee wrote:Well I'm male and emanc specifically said these female fans know nothing about tennis.

I know that but even if you look at his facebook page there are more females. That's his views that females do not know about tennis and it might be different form mine and yours. So why the fuss?
Being a nadal fan you can also say that fedfans are armachair experts and have never played tennis in their whole life.

by amritia3ee Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:45 pm

stratocumulus wrote:
amritia3ee wrote:Well I'm male and emanc specifically said these female fans know nothing about tennis.

That's his views that females do not know about tennis and it might be different form mine and yours. So why the fuss?

Well its grossly insulting to females, and a huge generalisation on Nadal fans.

by stratocumulus Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:48 pm

See I do not like Nadal but I should not be branding Nadal fans as they don't have any knowledge of tennis and I might say that they are anti tennis because I like to see tennis played in positive way like players going for winners rather than sit back, defend, defend and then rely on an error made by an opponent. This is how Nadal wins most of his matches anyway. UEs were high in the finals because Nadal tried to play aggressive, I am sure I have seen few matches when Nadal had made like 5-6 UEs in the whole match.

by stratocumulus Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:51 pm

amritia3ee wrote:
stratocumulus wrote:
amritia3ee wrote:Well I'm male and emanc specifically said these female fans know nothing about tennis.

That's his views that females do not know about tennis and it might be different form mine and yours. So why the fuss?
Well its grossly insulting to females, and a huge generalisation on Nadal fans.

That's for him and others to decide or let the mods decide. You are not a mod here or are you? But Generalisation is not wrong, I have seen it myself and everyone knows that rafa has a huge female fan following which in a way is a compliment as he has increased the fan base of the sport.

by amritia3ee Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:58 pm

stratocumulus wrote:
amritia3ee wrote:
stratocumulus wrote:
amritia3ee wrote:Well I'm male and emanc specifically said these female fans know nothing about tennis.

That's his views that females do not know about tennis and it might be different form mine and yours. So why the fuss?
Well its grossly insulting to females, and a huge generalisation on Nadal fans.

That's for him and others to decide or let the mods decide. You are not a mod here or are you? But Generalisation is not wrong, I have seen it myself and everyone knows that rafa has a huge female fan following which in a way is a compliment as he has increased the fan base of the sport.

I don't need the mods to understand that eman's claim that 'Nadal fans are all female who have no knowledge of tennis' is grossly insulting, arrogant and pretty pathetic.

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