Welsh fans your opinion on Steve Hansen as Head coach of Wales?

Since Ive been having some discussions regarding the relative merits of Hansen as head coach with a couple of our antipidean cousins and I didnt want to derail any more threads with ranting. I also didnt want to give a one sided view of him to them. What do the rest of my countrymen remember and feel about his time as head coach? we have at least a day before any more injury news comes out and it may take your mind off smilers calf.

Just a reminder for any youngsters who dont really recall those dark days. First whitewash in a championship. longest losing streak ended when ruddock took charge of us against Romania, Largest defeat to England at home. 34% win loss ratio. positives, well we got fit with hore as conditioning coach.

Thoughts Cymro?

Who's antipodean? I'm from Manchester. (ish)

Ive copied some pf my comments from other threads about him,

"I wouldnt say I hate him, I would happily urinate on him if he was on fire, but I would be putting in a few kicks as well. And yes it was all down to his ego, His record speaks for itself, first championship whitewash, longest losing streak, one of the worst win loss rates in charge of wales and he was only there for two years. We only ended the losing streak because ruddock was put in charge of the game against Romania(yes romania thats how bad it got) and picked the players who Hansen had ignored. He saw his team humiliated by the England thirds in cardiff. God he was awful as a head coach. He told Shane that he would never be a top winger and took him to the RWC as third choice scrum half, He picked mark jones over then young world player of the year Henson who was at his best. Even in the RWC if you look back at our matches and results we were poor until the All Blacks game and its well known that after the first try was scored against us the players went under the posts and said screw him lets do it our way. At that point things changed"



"Hansen as a Head coach was stubborn and blinkered. His outright refusal to change despite results saw senior players walk away from internatinal rugby a year before the world cup in 03 (Howley, Quinnell). We went into 03 RWC without a gameplan, without clear structures, low on confidence and with a pack of forwards who had seen the setpiece become utterly devalued. He sent out a bunch of guys he percieved as second rate against NZ who proceeded to ignore his instructions and give the all blacks a fright. His 34% winning average is down there amongst the worst in Welsh Rugby, GH had 58% before him Ruddock got 65% after him. Why? becaue both Henry and Ruddock recognised the need for a setpiece that functioned. Hansen saw it as an irrelevance to restart the game and nothing more. To trot out cliches like performance over results as you dismantle a setpiece and attack that had proven potent under Henry was an insult to a rugby population who may be a tad hysterical but they tend to understand the game was stupidity. Crowds went down as a consequence which cost the WRU a hell of a lot of cash.

Insulting former players and coaches who were spot on in their criticism and who were far more knowledgable about the game than he proved to be. That included people like Jiffy, Barry and Bennet and Edwards. It included John Dawes our most successful coach. Yes former players as pundits can be a pain espescially Jiffy but you dont become a dual code lion unless you know a thing or two about the game and insulting legends of the welsh game was ignorant arrogant and actually pretty dumb. He Alienated the public.

His subsequent involvement in the welsh team after he left the job, listening in to arguments between coaches on speakerphones and stirring it up with some of the welsh players was not only unproffessional for a coach but an apalling indictment of him as an individual. Gatland when he came in to the welsh squad said right away any of the same and people wouldnt play for him. Popham and Peel should have listened. He had favorites in his squad that were based not on who did the job for him on the pitch but on who his sycophants were(The same sycophants that were so disruptive under ruddock and Jenkins). Its notable that Gatland steered well away from those players when he took over. His mismanagement of players like Shane Williams, Henson, Charvis, Quinnel, Howley even Adam Jones (good players not also rans) was legendary."

miteyironpaw wrote:Who's antipodean? I'm from Manchester. (ish)

true buyt Taylor and emack arent lol.

emack is an English/Scottish chap, but a NZ supporter

I don't know about the validity of any comparison TO.

Henry was pilloried for his handling of the Lions and was deeply out of favour in Wales by the time he was given the shove, and yet proved it was not his coaching at all that was at fault when he took charge of the Kiwis and turned out one of the most comprehensive lessons in rugby to the Lions squad touted as the best ever under his old nemesis Woodward.

Rumour has it that the Welsh players were largely culpable for the disharmony in the Lions team of 2001.

rumor has it that Austin Healey was the reason for the disruption on that lions tour, but it was a poisioned chalice for Henry and the knock on effect was he lost the welsh dressing room and after the Irish game felt it was right to go. Many fans agreed with that decision me included, but I dont think it detracted from his achievements with Wales. He also started the whole process of modernisation in the welsh game and was outspoken against teh vested interests in welsh rugby and was proven correct. GH had overall a pretty successful time with wales.

miteyironpaw wrote:Who's antipodean? I'm from Manchester. (ish)

Cool. Played pool world champs in the NZ 8 ball side at the midlands hotel in 93.

Loved it. Reminds me a bit of Christchurch actually the style... Well... Pre-earthquake that is.

Sorry tyroes off topic... I'll wait nervously while all the hansen abuse comes in. Maybe ill mail to him...

no worries part of me is expecting abuse from those with rose coloured memories. I hear Alfie likes these sort of sites and he really liked Hansen so did nuggett, so who knows.

Comparing Steve Hansen in 2003 to Steve Hansen of 2012 is comparing apples and oranges.

The man has gained 8 years of experience and tutilage under Graham Henry.

Isn't it more like comparing a grape to a raisin?

miteyironpaw wrote:Isn't it more like comparing a grape to a raisin?

Perhaps

I know it isn't fair to judge someone from tv interviewa but Hansen always comes across as quite a miserable guy. Even Henry comes across as a cheery fello next to him.

miteyironpaw wrote:Isn't it more like comparing a grape to a raisin?

I understand what your saying Biltong but some guys are simply not cut out to be a head coach. Hansen worked with Henry in wales albeit briefly. My concerns are that he simply isnt up to the job of Head Coach. I must point out much as I dislike what he did to wales during his tenure, I would be delighted if my doom and gloom about him proved unfounded.

As for has he learned well I would point out the obvious weakness in the All Black lineout when he was in charge of it. He was moved away from the forwards by Henry who recognised that. The lineout isnt that difficult, there are some simple basic principles which SA for instance and Ireland to a lesser extent have mastered. Neither side overcomplicate it, both use movement to draw opposition jumpers around but not excessively, they rely on a good lift a good throw and jumpers who have absolute confidence in their role and support. contrast taht with Wales' lineout and NZ under Hansen, excessively complicated movement which makes the job of the hooker throwing in more difficult and gives sides who get up early and challenge for the ball time to put pressure on the opposition jumpers. The best sides challenge opposition ball. Wales and NZ dont/didnt (and yes I know we are far inferior in the line to NZ but the point stands).

He still hadnt got it by 2009 so whose to say the other faults that were so glaring in his tenure at Wales wont come back to haunt the Blacks.

And were you happy when he was wales coach Go?

I'll be honest i was too young then to have an opinion on it. From what people have said he wasn't a great coach of Wales. And was probably only chosen to be coach because he was a kiwi and a friend of Henry's.

sigh you just made me feel really old.

I thought he was pretty uninspiring as a coach and drab. Without Henry this guy would have been nowehere near international coaching. Did nothing for Wales IMO - Nice fella but up there with Gareth Jenkins for me with rubbish speak after each performance

TycroesOsprey wrote:

miteyironpaw wrote:Isn't it more like comparing a grape to a raisin?

I understand what your saying Biltong but some guys are simply not cut out to be a head coach. Hansen worked with Henry in wales albeit briefly. My concerns are that he simply isnt up to the job of Head Coach. I must point out much as I dislike what he did to wales during his tenure, I would be delighted if my doom and gloom about him proved unfounded.

As for has he learned well I would point out the obvious weakness in the All Black lineout when he was in charge of it. He was moved away from the forwards by Henry who recognised that. The lineout isnt that difficult, there are some simple basic principles which SA for instance and Ireland to a lesser extent have mastered. Neither side overcomplicate it, both use movement to draw opposition jumpers around but not excessively, they rely on a good lift a good throw and jumpers who have absolute confidence in their role and support. contrast taht with Wales' lineout and NZ under Hansen, excessively complicated movement which makes the job of the hooker throwing in more difficult and gives sides who get up early and challenge for the ball time to put pressure on the opposition jumpers. The best sides challenge opposition ball. Wales and NZ dont/didnt (and yes I know we are far inferior in the line to NZ but the point stands).

He still hadnt got it by 2009 so whose to say the other faults that were so glaring in his tenure at Wales wont come back to haunt the Blacks.

Tycroes, I think it would be fair to give the man a fair chance after the last 8 years since he was the welsh coach. Perhpas he has improved.

I really can't comment on what went wrong with Wales during his stint there, can't even remember the quality of players wales had then.

But of course you guys would know better than I would.

We had some talented players at the time Howley and Quinell were world class imo. Although they didnt hang around. There is also no denying that the welsh lacked proffesionalism and fitness, both things he did improve although much of the credit has to go to Andrew Hore for that.but the same players who won 2 grand slams later on were there, Were we world beaters no of course not there were far too many other problems with welsh rugby at the time and we are only now seeing the structures put in place after 2003 start to bear fruit. But I think we had players with natural talent, Thats not somthing Ive ever worried about.

RubyGuby wrote:I thought he was pretty uninspiring as a coach and drab. Without Henry this guy would have been nowehere near international coaching. Did nothing for Wales IMO - Nice fella but up there with Gareth Jenkins for me with rubbish speak after each performance

teh old "performance not results" mantra, god that used to annoy me.

I wouldn't judge a coach on his "miserable " media performance anyway I met the guy once and he was friendly enough in person .He was not brought here as a head coach and had no experience of the Welsh media goldfish bowl .

Judging on results his reign was a rubbish one but he inherited a side that had received record hammerings from England and Ireland just before Graham Henry bailed out . You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

He did put structures in place , fitness being one which stood Welsh Rugby in good stead after he left . Adam Jones himself admitted this week that he eventually saw the light in this respect and Hanson's controversial substitution policy probably helped . Welsh Rugby had to take some strong medicine in this respect before getting soem pride back and Hanson was part of the cure.Ruddock in particular reaped some benefit from this and to be fair to Mike he has gone on record to say this.

TycroesOsprey wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:I thought he was pretty uninspiring as a coach and drab. Without Henry this guy would have been nowehere near international coaching. Did nothing for Wales IMO - Nice fella but up there with Gareth Jenkins for me with rubbish speak after each performance

teh old "performance not results" mantra, god that used to annoy me.

That might have annoyed you Tycroes but now I can actually laugh my head off when i think about Jenkins interview after the Will James humiliation at Twickenham before the 2007 world cup - Jenkins actually said, "we made far more line breaks than England" to the interviewer

RubyGuby wrote:

TycroesOsprey wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:I thought he was pretty uninspiring as a coach and drab. Without Henry this guy would have been nowehere near international coaching. Did nothing for Wales IMO - Nice fella but up there with Gareth Jenkins for me with rubbish speak after each performance

teh old "performance not results" mantra, god that used to annoy me.

That might have annoyed you Tycroes but now I can actually laugh my head off when i think about Jenkins interview after the Will James humiliation at Twickenham before the 2007 world cup - Jenkins actually said, "we made far more line breaks than England" to the interviewer

Can the Welsh supporters tell me which of these following players they rate?

MJ Madden, MJ Owen, RD Parks, RD Powell, RA Sidoli, DM Davies, GD Jenkins, ST Parker, DAR Jones, VL Cooper, C Sweeney, MJ Watkins, GJ Williams, AJ Popham, JJ Thomas, H Bennett, RL Oakley, NJ Robinson, AR Jones, J Bater, RN Brew, J Bryant, BJ Cockbain, P James, WM Phillips, AD Williams, PJ Young, HN Luscombe

Owen, Geth, Sonny Parker, Sweeney at the time, Popham, john thomas, Adam jones, cockbain, Robinson, Luscombe I was happy with but he was south african, Dafyydd jones sadly injury got him. Huw Bennett well I guess the last rwc has changed peoples opinions on him but he was a bright star at the time.

Im sure theres some scarlets fans who would sing the praises of Vernon C maybe even Madden, Matthew Watkins could have made it but never fullfilled the promise imo.

but outside the squad at the time you also had,neil Jenkins, Howley and quinnell who all walked in 2002, outside the squad Henson, Shane, Charvis, Martin Williams, Horseman although he was English.

Oh Dafydd James and Alfie were outside looking in at that point as well, Id forgotten about Ryan Powell who showed up well on the tour to Aregntina and against SA then dissapeared off to England,

Hopefully the same doesn't happen to Martin Roberts at Northampton. I rate him highly.

TycroesOsprey wrote:Owen, Geth, Sonny Parker, Sweeney at the time, Popham, john thomas, Adam jones, cockbain, Robinson, Luscombe I was happy with but he was south african, Dafyydd jones sadly injury got him. Huw Bennett well I guess the last rwc has changed peoples opinions on him but he was a bright star at the time.

Im sure theres some scarlets fans who would sing the praises of Vernon C maybe even Madden, Matthew Watkins could have made it but never fullfilled the promise imo.

but outside the squad at the time you also had,neil Jenkins, Howley and quinnell who all walked in 2002, outside the squad Henson, Shane, Charvis, Martin Williams, Horseman although he was English.

Tycroes, those players I named there wer all debutants under Hansen. so he may not have provided you the results you were looking at, but by the sounds of it, he wasn't bad at spotting talent.

Perhaps you are a little too critical, if I look at the number of debutants he had, it might just be that Welsh rugby was in transition at the time, and had Hansen more time, would have turned those players into a collective squad capable of winning on a regular basis.

But then as I said, I don't know your situation as well as you do, I am merely playing devils advocate.

Don't rate Hansen as Wales coach but he does have the top side in the world at his disposal so we'll have to see if working with established talent is more his field than development. If he's still at the helm in 2015 I can quite easily picture him a De Villiers to Henry's Jake White, meaning he's stuck with the burden and pressure of retaining success rather than winning it, an easier task to fail there is not.

But we did have a number of experienced players even world class who werent picked who should have been , Scott Gibbs was another who walked rather than play under Hansen.

and of that group of debutants, MJ Madden, , RD Parks, , DM Davies,, VL Cooper, GJ Williams, RL Oakley, J Bater, RN Brew, J Bryant, , P James, AD Williams, PJ Young,

Should never have been anywhere near an international shirt although as i said there are sure to be fans of respective clubs who would disagree,

didnt know Mike Phillips first name was william. but Howley and Peel were better options at the time.

Knowsit17 wrote:If he's still at the helm in 2015 I can quite easily picture him a De Villiers to Henry's Jake White, meaning he's stuck with the burden and pressure of retaining success rather than winning it, an easier task to fail there is not.

coincidently I am working on an article about de Villers and White. you might find it more applicable than you would realise. Will post it later today.

My personal opinion of Hanson as head coach was that he threw a sst of second stringers into a match that we were going to be distroyed in, and was fortunate that they played well. And as such it appeared that he knew what he was doing.

And personally I have a feeling that this is what happened in the recent RWC for Wales too.

In all fairness we should have had a midfield trio of Jonathan Davies, Gibbs and Bateman which would have been a handful for anyone. We suffered due to to rugby league from 1990-2005 and were unable to compete with largely 2nd and 3rd choice players having to put on the shirt. Hansen remains average at best as a coach in my mind - He's a nice guy and i wish people wouldn't confuse those issues.

Henson should have gone to the 03 world cup!

Jiffy was well retired by Hansens time although he got a game under GH. Bateman and Gibbs could and should have still been in the side

RubyGuby wrote:In all fairness we should have had a midfield trio of Jonathan Davies, Gibbs and Bateman which would have been a handful for anyone. We suffered due to to rugby league from 1990-2005 and were unable to compete with largely 2nd and 3rd choice players having to put on the shirt. Hansen remains average at best as a coach in my mind - He's a nice guy and i wish people wouldn't confuse those issues.

Ruddock would say somthing different if you could catch him over a couple of pints Ruby.

If you guys can see the bio on Shane Williams done by BBC on the interweb he has some pretty scathing things to say about Hanson, very funny description of a training ground bust up during teh 2003 RWC. Quite a bit on the Hansen years.

New Zealand are in trouble. Good enforcer type forwards coach. Not enough finesse for the number one spot. I can only assume the Kiwis believe the players at his disposal are so much better than those he coached for Wales. Gatland however did a far better job with the same players.

I haven't heard of anyone in NZ who is looking forward to Hansen being the coach. Neutral to afraid it seems.

I think we're forgetting the usual Welsh Trait.... Taste some success and believe your own hype. Wales went on a winning streak under GH and took their foot off the gas.

Anyone remember the "Dewyr" comment about how unfit the welsh team had got? Remember everyone's buddy Roger Black? Basically ill discipline creeps in to the welsh team off the field. Shanes f off comment to Hansen and him being proud to brag of it years later sums up the welsh attitude of "we know best".

Success is 2005 - total collapse
Success in 2008 - again a collapse

again the same players

The whole reason why we have these foreign coaches is because we definately don't know best yet you're willing to slate them.

Hanson talked performances becuase he basically knew he had to get the team fit, tried to instill some discipline and confidence into a rag tag bunch.

happy to slate Hansen he was rubbish imo.

Thats not a dig about foreign coaches, Ive openly sung the praises of Henry and Gatland. Personally I think Hansens record speaks for itself. He ignored the problems in the setpiece despite everyone pointing it out, he ignored talent for mediocrity as a selector. As for the team he created in 03-04 yeah they did win two grand slams, but they didnt prove to be more disciplined than the people who walked away because of Hansen did they? far worse in fact.

The Shane comment, well he was right though wasnt he? Are rugby players not supposed to speak up when they see a gap?

No, he was told to do a job and did the opposite just to get one up and try and prove a point.

Shane just summed up the unprofessional attitude at the time. He was dropped becuase he was too small, so instead of putting his head down and putting in performances week after week so he had to be picked he went on the "pss". just think, he could have scored more.

sorry, not sure of these better players that he wouldn't pick...?

well Shane Williams, Henson, Howley, Quinnell, Gibbs, Dafydd James, Neil Jenkins, Adam Jones, Leigh Davies, All players who walked away from Wales or who were ignored/mismanaged by Hansen, that includes a world player a young world player, top points scorer, top tries holder, world record holder for kicks in one game, All but one are Britich Lions, All mismangaed by Hansen and thats just off the top of my head. All of these could have been in Hansens squad in 2003 and not just as also rans.

As for the Shane playing as Tonga that is a damning indictment of Hansen as a coach. Since when has it been a Tongan policy in attack to focus on kicking? Since when did they ignore a gap in the defensive line? Shane proved the point he was making. The point is that Hansen was way out of his depth as head coach and didnt know what he was talking about.

If memory serves Steve Hansen polarised opinion amongst Welsh supporters, unlike any national coach before him. I was most definitely in the Hansen appreciation camp, even though he presided over the worst ever run of results. Along with the progression of the regional setups he helped create an infrastructure for fitness development (thanks Mr Hansen and thus thanks Mr Hore). Yes the results during this time were dire, but by close-of-play-2004 we were starting to reap some benefits (the one pointer against NZ & the Arg tour) compared to the previous fifteen years of abject despondency.

I remember him being ridiculed on the front (I think) of the Western Mail after the 2003 whitewash for daring to suggest that Wales could win the 6 Nations within two years.

Not many remember that news story.

His final match against Italy (at the MS, a good win with Gareth Thomas breaking the-then Wales try scoring record) typified his tenure, half the Crowd (including myself and my wife), gave him a standing ovation, the rest (at least from evidence within my earshot), muttered good riddance to bad rubbish.

That is my memory, but I spent most of those years drunk so my facts and dates maybe a bit off the mark.

Was he any good, I believe so yes, he was ok, he made some mistakes, but he wasn’t a miracle worker, he only managed to turn sh*t to brass.

He tried his best to make Wales a good team, he took a group of kids and set them on their way to Grand slam glory, the problem is if Ruddock hadnt come along then Wales would never of won anything. Because his teams were woefully inept tactically and he made some mad selection decisions.

We had Adam Jones yet he kept taking him off after 30 minutes, then brought on Gethin Jenkins and put him at tight head, this when Duncan Jones had spent nearly all his career to date as a tight head anyway. Our lineout was woeful...

It wasnt until Ruddock came along and sorted the pack out that Wales got their act together.

TycroesOsprey wrote:rumor has it that Austin Healey was the reason for the disruption on that lions tour, but it was a poisioned chalice for Henry and the knock on effect was he lost the welsh dressing room and after the Irish game felt it was right to go. Many fans agreed with that decision me included, but I dont think it detracted from his achievements with Wales. He also started the whole process of modernisation in the welsh game and was outspoken against teh vested interests in welsh rugby and was proven correct. GH had overall a pretty successful time with wales.

Kevin Bowring went to the WRU before GH came in with a modernisation plan in 1998. He was turned away and ignored. When GH did arrive, he bought a similar plan in and was lauded for it! The RFU went "Cheers kev, we'll have that. Come work for us!"

iso wrote:If memory serves Steve Hansen polarised opinion amongst Welsh supporters, unlike any national coach before him. I was most definitely in the Hansen appreciation camp, even though he presided over the worst ever run of results. Along with the progression of the regional setups he helped create an infrastructure for fitness development (thanks Mr Hansen and thus thanks Mr Hore). Yes the results during this time were dire, but by close-of-play-2004 we were starting to reap some benefits (the one pointer against NZ & the Arg tour) compared to the previous fifteen years of abject despondency.

I remember him being ridiculed on the front (I think) of the Western Mail after the 2003 whitewash for daring to suggest that Wales could win the 6 Nations within two years.

Not many remember that news story.

His final match against Italy (at the MS, a good win with Gareth Thomas breaking the-then Wales try scoring record) typified his tenure, half the Crowd (including myself and my wife), gave him a standing ovation, the rest (at least from evidence within my earshot), muttered good riddance to bad rubbish.

That is my memory, but I spent most of those years drunk so my facts and dates maybe a bit off the mark.

Was he any good, I believe so yes, he was ok, he made some mistakes, but he wasn’t a miracle worker, he only managed to turn sh*t to brass.

Ruddock was in charge nby the end of 2004 and he had sorted out the pack and selected specialists.

I was at his last game too and I was in the camp happy to see him go. good game though.