The New Lendl

Lendl reached the summit of mens tennis gaining the number one ranking and collecting an impressive 8 slams. More than McEnroe, more than Becker and the same number as Connors. But what he failed to capture was the publics imagination. He is often remembered more for his dour personality, cruel sense of humour and his devotion to physical fitness than he is for any sort of exciting play.

As far as personality goes IMO Djokovic shares little with Lendl. I would even go as far as saying he can be charismatic. As of last year he does share similar achievements. At the moment he is the clear number 1 and holds 3 slam trophies. But so far though he has yet to capture the wider publics imagination. For example despite winning the recent Australian Open he trailed behind both Nadal and Federer in terms of popularity.

http://www.australianopen.com/en_AU/fancentre/social/index.html

Djokovic has played some great matches against Nadal and Federer but it is the latter two players who have most of the crowd on their side during their encounters. In the AO final I believe the crowds vocal support of Nadal at the end of the fourth set played a part in him winning it.

Why has Djokovic not achieved the popularity that often goes hand in hand with high achievements? Will he become another Lendl?

Is it right to assume you have reported the post Hawky?

But in all seriousness, are you going through the 'change'?

In all the time you were VMP in the old place, never in your posts or threads did you mention 'Lendl'

But since his new found fame for coaching Murray you have spouted out rubbish after rubbish about the poor guy.

If he tickles your fancy, then please highlight him in a more positive manner.

legendkiller

I don't know how you know but of course I reported your offensive post. Forums where inarticulate posters hurl insults are two a penny. Hopefully 606v2 is above that.

Was it an insult?

I was merely stating my perception on your 'articulate' way of posting.

I thought posters on V2 were not one dimensional.

I guess I was wrong in your case.

I can't believe on that link Murray has the same number of fans as Shriekapova... she's actually won some slams!!

I think it has something to do with their names.

In the film industry, budding young actors and actresses change their names to something more masculine or feminine, and something more befitting of the culture in which they wish to be recognised and acclaimed. For example Marilyn Monroe would not have gained popularity if she had kept her name as Norma Baker.

Other name changes:
Tony Curtis from Bernard Schwartz,
John Wayne from Marion Morrison,
Raquel Welch from Raquel Tejada,
Tina Turner from Annie Bullock,
Jane Seymour from Joyce Frankenberg,
Omar Sharif from Michael Shalhoub,
Demi Moore from Demetria Guynes,
George Michael from Georgios Panayiotou,
Walter Matthau from Walter Matuschanskayasky,
Harpo Marx from Adolph Marx,
Ben Kingsley from Krishna Banji,
Elton John from Reginald Dwight,
Cary Grant from Archibald Leach,
Kirk Douglas from Issur Danielovitch,
Diana Dors from Diana Fluck,
John Denver from Henry Deutschendorf,
Tom Cruise from Thomas Mapother,
Elizabeth Windsor from Elizabeth SaxeCoburg.

So the question should be what change of names should Ivan Lendl and Novak Djokovic have had to increase their popularity?

Novak Djokovic - Bobby Titanium
Ivan Lendl - Bobby Davro

Why has Djokovic not achieved the popularity that often goes hand in hand with high achievements? Will he become another Lendl?

If I was Nole I wouldn't care less about being popular. Winning is all that matters.

Y I Man wrote:

Why has Djokovic not achieved the popularity that often goes hand in hand with high achievements? Will he become another Lendl?

If I was Nole I wouldn't care less about being popular. Winning is all that matters.

Considering the prize money always increasing in slams, I can see why that attitude is now adopted by the players.

http://www.australianopen.com/en_AU/fancentre/social/index.html

Im not convinced by this link either. All that is using as a reference is the number of times a player has been tweeted about using a hashtag or someone pressing 'like' on the AO site. What about all the times they are talked about without the hashtag? I would imagine players are talked about more on twitter without the hashtag.

Thank you moderators for the removal of the offensive post by legendkiller. It is a shame that this particular poster felt the need to post a further two posts making personal insults rather than making any contribution to the discussion. Thankfully 606v2 is usually a more pleasant place...

Y I Man

I suspect that Nole is more interested in poplularity than you think. In fact of all the top players he strikes me as the one that wants or even needs to be loved.

If your not convinced by the link then just look around. I still think the majority of tennis discussion revolves around Nadal and Federer. Even after Djokovics win at the AO I would say that a lot of the talk centred on what it all meant for Nadal. Positive and negative but he still generated a lot of the interest.

If you disagree with the link can you find any evidence to back up your theory?

hawkeye wrote:Thank you moderators for the removal of the offensive post by legendkiller. It is a shame that this particular poster felt the need to post a further two posts making personal insults rather than making any contribution to the discussion. Thankfully 606v2 is usually a more pleasant place...

It does concern me that you believe that any of your articles actually prompt any sensible discussion.

Write something not related to Murray or Lendl and you might find my attitude towards you change.

If you bring change, you will see change.

legendkiller

This article is about Djokovic! It is not my fault that you are unable to participate in sensible discussion. If you don't rate what I write why waste your time commenting. I sense your motive is to bully others into silence and spoil what was a well thought out article.

hawkeye wrote:Y I Man



If you disagree with the link can you find any evidence to back up your theory?

I did.
That site only uses twitter hashtags as their findings and a 'like' button.
That is not a true reflection on the general public. The general public are not all on twitter, and not everyone on twitter uses a hashtag when discussing tennis players.

Y I Man

I meant can you find any evidence to back up your theory that Nole is more popular in relation to Nadal and Federer than that poll suggests. I can understand why you might think it is not representative of the whole population but then what poll is? Do you think that Nadal and Federer fans are more likely to be on twitter and use "hashtags" (?) than Djokovic fans?

hawkeye wrote:legendkiller

This article is about Djokovic! It is not my fault that you are unable to participate in sensible discussion. If you don't rate what I write why waste your time commenting. I sense your motive is to bully others into silence and spoil what was a well thought out article.

With Lendl in the title. How are comparisons made between Djokovic and Lendl? Show me where the similarities are?

Your problem is if people disagree, you throw the toys out. You can't accept any form of criticism of your posts.

The way you manipulate stories, it is Murdoch mark 2. You 'cherry' pick and expect that to hold higher standing than proof posters provide.

If you want to make a proper comparison, Djokovic is more like Agassi than Lendl.

Facebook fans???

Nadal= 10 million
Federer= 10 million

Djokovic= 2 million

Says it all really.

How many of Nadal's 10 million are older than say 18? Afterall the majority don't really understand his style of tennis.

I'm a huge fan.

Never said you werent, but I have been on many sports forums and have found that Federer fans have easily outnumbered Nadal fans on these.

Even on a Spanish site such as MARCA, when translating much of the comments on Nadal topics they are often not very complimentary to their compatriot.

10 million facebook fans.

amritia3ee wrote:Facebook fans???

Nadal= 10 million
Federer= 10 million

Djokovic= 2 million

Says it all really.

Well exactly! Both Nadal and Federer have 5 times as many fans as Djokovic. What do they have that Djokovic doesn't? Is there any similarity with what McEnroe has that Lendl doesn't? Its not just on facebook or the result of varios polls you can hear it when either Nadal or Federer play Djokovic. If the match is close. You don't have to watch to know who's won or lost a point as you can hear it in the crowd reaction.

hawkeye wrote:

amritia3ee wrote:Facebook fans???

Nadal= 10 million
Federer= 10 million

Djokovic= 2 million

Says it all really.

Well exactly! Both Nadal and Federer have 5 times as many fans as Djokovic. What do they have that Djokovic doesn't? Is there any similarity with what McEnroe has that Lendl doesn't? Its not just on facebook or the result of varios polls you can hear it when either Nadal or Federer play Djokovic. If the match is close. You don't have to watch to know who's won or lost a point as you can hear it in the crowd reaction.

Federer and Nadal dominated for so long that they have become synonymous with tennis in the minds of many including non tennis fans. If a non tennis fan is going to follow or like anyone in tennis it is pretty likely to be one of them. It will take time for others to catch up.

legendkillar wrote:

hawkeye wrote:legendkiller

This article is about Djokovic! It is not my fault that you are unable to participate in sensible discussion. If you don't rate what I write why waste your time commenting. I sense your motive is to bully others into silence and spoil what was a well thought out article.

With Lendl in the title. How are comparisons made between Djokovic and Lendl? Show me where the similarities are?

Your problem is if people disagree, you throw the toys out. You can't accept any form of criticism of your posts.

The way you manipulate stories, it is Murdoch mark 2. You 'cherry' pick and expect that to hold higher standing than proof posters provide.

If you want to make a proper comparison, Djokovic is more like Agassi than Lendl.

What do you mean by a "proof" poster? I didn't know posters were split into categories. I would rather be a popular poster any way. I've just looked at the last 3 articles of ours that have recently been commented on. Yours have 22 comments and 332 views and mine have 183 comments and 2530 views. I'm not usually one to boast but being sensitive I don't take kindly to anyone who attempts to push me around.

Djokovic will catch up over time I think.

carrieg4 wrote:

hawkeye wrote:

amritia3ee wrote:Facebook fans???

Nadal= 10 million
Federer= 10 million

Djokovic= 2 million

Says it all really.

Well exactly! Both Nadal and Federer have 5 times as many fans as Djokovic. What do they have that Djokovic doesn't? Is there any similarity with what McEnroe has that Lendl doesn't? Its not just on facebook or the result of varios polls you can hear it when either Nadal or Federer play Djokovic. If the match is close. You don't have to watch to know who's won or lost a point as you can hear it in the crowd reaction.

Federer and Nadal dominated for so long that they have become synonymous with tennis in the minds of many including non tennis fans. If a non tennis fan is going to follow or like anyone in tennis it is pretty likely to be one of them. It will take time for others to catch up.

Exactly carrieg, was going to say something similar. Nadal & Federer have had more years in the mainstream over Nole, therefore more fans.

carrieg4

Yes I agree about the length of time Federer and Nadal have been at the top. What would Nole have to do to catch up. Do you think he can?

Nadal and Federer have built up such a history it would take more than winning a few titles. To gain the sort of recognition and admiration that both of these players have Djokovic would also have to be involved in the sort of memorable matches that these players have on their CV.

Also IMO both Nadal and Federer have the sort of playing style that can capture the imagination. Very different admittedly (as Tenez would be quick to point out). I think McEnroe also had a unique and exciting playing style. Did Lendl? Does Djokovic?

As I said as far as personality goes Djokovic to me has charisma but so far the general public don't all agree. Well not in comparison to a certain two players.

On top of all this Federer and Nadal have each other as rivals. Does Federer/Djokovic or Nadal/Djokovic provide as much interest?

It would be pretty even if Djokovic had same level of success as Nadal was fortunate to get so quickly, besides i'm sure nearly all Serbians/Russians will be huge Djokovic fans anyway, doesn't need Facebook to tell us that!

Nadal is second best on facebook as well

Hello



Oh minions The Nadull's fans are mostly teenage girls and middle-aged spinsters; they know nothing about tennis. Most of them had never watched a tennis match prior to 2005. Additionally most of his fanbase is derived from spanish speakers, of which there are many millions. He also receives a lot of support from his home nation of 40 million + inhabitants.

The Great one, otoh, belongs to a very small nation, yet he far exceeds The Nadull in popularity. His popularity is gleaned from the true connoiseurs of tennis; those who appreciate talent and inspiration; they understand the game of tennis.



emancipator - intergalactic tennis historian - Oh minions be warned, the evil entity BOO is slowly regaining his former strength. Oh BOOOOOOOOOOOO, salvation is still possible. Come back oh BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

emancipator wrote:Hello



Oh minions The Nadull's fans are mostly teenage girls and middle-aged spinsters; they know nothing about tennis. Most of them had never watched a tennis match prior to 2005. Additionally most of his fanbase is derived from spanish speakers, of which there are many millions. He also receives a lot of support from his home nation of 40 million + inhabitants.

The Great one, otoh, belongs to a very small nation, yet he far exceeds The Nadull in popularity. His popularity is gleaned from the true connoiseurs of tennis; those who appreciate talent and inspiration; they understand the game of tennis.



emancipator - intergalactic tennis historian - Oh minions be warned, the evil entity BOO is slowly regaining his former strength. Oh BOOOOOOOOOOOO, salvation is still possible. Come back oh BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Josiah Maiestas wrote:It would be pretty even if Djokovic had same level of success as Nadal was fortunate to get so quickly, besides i'm sure nearly all Serbians/Russians will be huge Djokovic fans anyway, doesn't need Facebook to tell us that!

Well of course beating the number 1 player in the world when just 17 and winning a first slam at barely 19 will have added to Nadals X factor however I'm not sure it can just be called "fortunate". It does show why Nadal is a difficult act to follow.

Of course Serbians will be big Djokovic fans. Djokovic may not be able to rival Federer or Nadal as far as numbers of fans go but I would guess he has a few of the most fanatical fans... To gain the sort of recognition that Federer and Nadal have Djokovic needs to win a few more fans who support him for non nationalistic reasons. I didn't know about his Russian fans. Why is that?

Russia is Serbia's mother country... kind of like the relationship between UK and Australia, or Portugal and Brazil.

emancipator wrote:Hello



Oh minions The Nadull's fans are mostly teenage girls and middle-aged spinsters; they know nothing about tennis. Most of them had never watched a tennis match prior to 2005. Additionally most of his fanbase is derived from spanish speakers, of which there are many millions. He also receives a lot of support from his home nation of 40 million + inhabitants.

The Great one, otoh, belongs to a very small nation, yet he far exceeds The Nadull in popularity. His popularity is gleaned from the true connoiseurs of tennis; those who appreciate talent and inspiration; they understand the game of tennis.



emancipator - intergalactic tennis historian - Oh minions be warned, the evil entity BOO is slowly regaining his former strength. Oh BOOOOOOOOOOOO, salvation is still possible. Come back oh BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Ha ha! So Nadal even gets people who know nothing about tennis to watch. Has Djokovic ever done that. Is he capable of winning over new fans to tennis?

Not to mention Nadal also inspires a great deal of interest from those who can't seem to understand that topspin can beat hard and flat. It just goes against the laws layed down by those who regard themselves as "the true connoiseurs of tennis". Just like in days of old the flat earthers couldn't get their heads round the idea that the earth may be round... Can Djokovic do anything "impossible" like that?

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Russia is Serbia's mother country... kind of like the relationship between UK and Australia, or Portugal and Brazil.

Thats interesting. I shall watch out for Russian Djokovic fans.

emancipator wrote:
Oh minions The Nadull's fans are mostly teenage girls and middle-aged spinsters; they know nothing about tennis. Most of them had never watched a tennis match prior to 2005. Additionally most of his fanbase is derived from spanish speakers, of which there are many millions. He also receives a lot of support from his home nation of 40 million + inhabitants.

The Great one, otoh, belongs to a very small nation, yet he far exceeds The Nadull in popularity. His popularity is gleaned from the true connoiseurs of tennis; those who appreciate talent and inspiration; they understand the game of tennis.

Hmm.. this seems to be a theme recently. I remember yesterday another Fed fan saying how only Fed fans were true tennis fans and everyone else are anti-tennis, especially Nadal fans.
Pretty pathetic really.

Oh and I'm not a spanish speaker, or a teenage girl nor am I a middle aged-spinster; but still a Nadal fan; hence your theory is proved to be BS.

This really is getting more and more pathetic from the Fed fans. I myself am a Nadal fan, but I recognise everyone else has their preferences and can support who they want.

Stratocumulus yesterday:
'Not at all because tennis is because of Federer. Tennis fans are federer fans. There is no surprise that why any forum is full of federer fans and only some anti tennis fans.'

Emancipator:
'Oh minions The Nadull's fans are mostly teenage girls and middle-aged spinsters; they know nothing about tennis. Most of them had never watched a tennis match prior to 2005. His (Federer's) popularity is only gleaned from the true connoiseurs of tennis'

Simply unfounded insulting allegations; tbh its just arrogant and pathetic, this 'only fed fans are real tennis fans thing.

amritia3ee wrote:

emancipator wrote:
Oh minions The Nadull's fans are mostly teenage girls and middle-aged spinsters; they know nothing about tennis. Most of them had never watched a tennis match prior to 2005. Additionally most of his fanbase is derived from spanish speakers, of which there are many millions. He also receives a lot of support from his home nation of 40 million + inhabitants.

The Great one, otoh, belongs to a very small nation, yet he far exceeds The Nadull in popularity. His popularity is gleaned from the true connoiseurs of tennis; those who appreciate talent and inspiration; they understand the game of tennis.

Hmm.. this seems to be a theme recently. I remember yesterday another Fed fan saying how only Fed fans were true tennis fans and everyone else are anti-tennis, especially Nadal fans.
Pretty pathetic really.

Oh and I'm not a spanish speaker, or a teenage girl nor am I a middle aged-spinster; but still a Nadal fan; hence your theory is proved to be BS.

Oh child Amrit I think you should pay more attention at school.

How can Nadal fans be tennis fans?

This is an oxymoron.

Please explain this to me???

Josiah Maiestas wrote:How can Nadal fans be tennis fans?

This is an oxymoron.

Please explain this to me???

Good one

Lol, just so easy to get a rise from this amritia dude/chick. Calling Fed fans pathetic when this joker is no better.

Hawky,

If we looked over our threads you and I know I would outweigh you in views and comments.

Nice attempt at trying to bullcrap your 'profile' I mean cherry pick.

hawkeye wrote:Y I Man

I meant can you find any evidence to back up your theory that Nole is more popular in relation to Nadal and Federer than that poll suggests. I can understand why you might think it is not representative of the whole population but then what poll is? Do you think that Nadal and Federer fans are more likely to be on twitter and use "hashtags" (?) than Djokovic fans?

First I tend to agree with Hawkeye that Novak craves the limelight and that he is still less popular than Fed and Nadal. I don't think it really is anything to be worried about. With each success grandslam he will gain fans and popularity. Roger was virtually unknown of in the wider sports world in the US until he won about 5 or 6 slams. He eventually, gained a huge following but early on his domination at the same stage that Novak is now if you asked 10 americans who Roger federer probably no more than 1 or 2 would know. Universally, people like a winner and the more he wins the more fans he will find. Especially, if plays big famous matches in grandslams like FO semi 2011, USO semi 2010 and 11, and AO final and semi of this year. He comes from a small country and has a bit of an odd name for western tastes. And he has just started to make his run of dominance.

He has loads more personality and humor than Lendl and is more ingratiating in general to fans and the media. But it takes time to build a following the general sports public or casual fans it takes a period of being at or near the top for a few years competing in big grandslam finals. It will happen for Novak. Already has had a huge rise in visibility in the last 12 months. And in 12 months from now will probably enjoy another significant rise.

legendkillar wrote:Hawky,

If we looked over our threads you and I know I would outweigh you in views and comments.

Nice attempt at trying to bullcrap your 'profile' I mean cherry pick.

Ha ha! Numbers don't lie. What do you mean your views and comments "outweigh" mine? You are clearly deluded, wrong and so emotianal that you are often reduced to throwing insults whereas I am (IMO) usually right...

social1976

Of course Djokovic has bags more personality than Lendl. I was only comparing the two because of their achievements and because Lendl didn't capture the general publics attention and the general tennis fans attention and (so far) neither has Djokovic. Well not as much as would be expected considering their achievements.

I disagree about Federer immediately winning over tennis fans. I think he did. In fact in the beginning he did this despite not having won a slam. I would say winning his first Wimbledon was huge for him in terms of winning popularity. When Djokovic won the AO for the first time in comparison it did little to enhance his popularity.

Of course playing "big famous matches" can build a fan base. But it is interesting that the big famous matches you refer to all involve Nadal and Federer. I'm curious to know why you include the 2010 and 2011 US Open semi's and not finals. Do you think when Djokovic plays Nadal that Nadal gets all the attention? IMO Djokovic will need to play a few big famous matches that don't involve Federer or Nadal to gain more recognition. If they are involved all he gains is a bit of reflected light. Can he do it?

Is winning all that matters? I'm not sure but if your holding a big shiny trophy it means less if you get less recognition than you deserve or think you deserve. Maybe someone should ask Lendl or Djokovic how they feel about it. I believe Djokovic was none too happy with his third place billing in the exhibition in Abu Dhabi at the beginning of the year...

hawkeye wrote:social1976

Of course Djokovic has bags more personality than Lendl.

Really? Have been on holidays with them? Maybe a diner together?

Tenez

Ha ha! No but if I had to choose who to go on holiday with or have dinner with I would choose Djokovic. He looks way more fun as long as I didn't have to choose from the same glutton free menu as him.

Do you think I should do a poll to test the views of other 606v2 members? To make it interesting I could also include Nadal and Federer. Do you think poor Lendl would have to go on holiday on his own...

hawkeye wrote:

legendkillar wrote:Hawky,

If we looked over our threads you and I know I would outweigh you in views and comments.

Nice attempt at trying to bullcrap your 'profile' I mean cherry pick.

Ha ha! Numbers don't lie. What do you mean your views and comments "outweigh" mine? You are clearly deluded, wrong and so emotianal that you are often reduced to throwing insults whereas I am (IMO) usually right...

So the last 3 threads, which one you done months ago tell a whole story?

You like half a glass don't we?

Miss 'I delete comments who disagree with me'

You truly do talk and believe in your own crap.

Tenez you are wasting your time with 'hearsay'

I am still waiting for her to confirm when Murray actually called a time violation on Harrison

legendkillar wrote:

hawkeye wrote:

legendkillar wrote:Hawky,

If we looked over our threads you and I know I would outweigh you in views and comments.

Nice attempt at trying to bullcrap your 'profile' I mean cherry pick.

Ha ha! Numbers don't lie. What do you mean your views and comments "outweigh" mine? You are clearly deluded, wrong and so emotianal that you are often reduced to throwing insults whereas I am (IMO) usually right...

So the last 3 threads, which one you done months ago tell a whole story?

You like half a glass don't we?

Miss 'I delete comments who disagree with me'

You truly do talk and believe in your own crap.

I have to admit its difficult to discern exactly what you are trying to say here? The first bit (I presume) is some sort of reference to my article entitled "Is Nepotism Acceptable If It Involves Andy Murray". I get the impression that it wasn't one of your favourites? And your a bit annoyed that it keeps popping up? I can hardly help it if it continues to be discussed after all this time.

As for the rest I havn't a clue what you mean. Do you have an opinion on Djokovics popularity in relation to Federer and Nadal. This is what this article is about...