George North frightening statistics!

by gnollbeast Mon 06 Feb 2012, 1:08 pm

I know it's early days and I got slated many times before for bigging this boy up, but he has exceeded over and beyond even my wild expectations of him so far.

If the current trend continues, George North could potentially be:

Wales most capped player
Wales record try scorer

If he stays mainly injury free and was to play till he was 34 (like Shane Williams) the statistics are through the roof. Bearing in mind Shane Williams spent 2 seasons away from Wales duty when Hansen was in charge and he still got a hell of a lot of caps and tries.

STATS

North has played for Wales for 15 months (since Nov 2010).

He has scored 10 tries in 17 appearances.

If we average him on 10 tests a year (5 six nations, 2 or 3 summer tours and a few autumn internationals)

By the time he is 34 he could have:

157 caps & 82 tries

Jonah Lomu was 20 when he ran over England in 1995. George North is 19 now and he runs THROUGH people.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon 06 Feb 2012, 1:23 pm

White Orcs

by damage_13 Mon 06 Feb 2012, 1:23 pm

Not as good as Robinson.

and on par with Ashton.

Both will (still) have scored more tries than him by the time he retires as he is taller and is easier to tackle.

by Chunky Norwich Mon 06 Feb 2012, 1:24 pm

damage_13 wrote:Not as good as Robinson.

and on par with Ashton.

Both will (still) have scored more tries than him by the time he retires as he is taller and is easier to tackle.

by Rory_Gallagher Mon 06 Feb 2012, 1:24 pm

Unfortunately running through the Irish midfield isn't really a difficult thing to do anymore.. the highlight for me was his offload however. I am intrigued to see how he gets on the rest of the tournament however.

by red_stag Mon 06 Feb 2012, 1:26 pm

He was my man of the match and IMO the single biggest reason you won the game.

An excellent player who made light work of Tommy Bowe when defending and came in off his wing to wreak havoc on the Irish midfield in attack.

by eirebilly Mon 06 Feb 2012, 1:31 pm

I had him as MoTM to be honest. A class above out there.

People think that he is just big and strong but seriously take a look at the way he takes the ball into contact, his little movements put the defenders off. His all round contact skills are very very good, he is a good rugby player first and a big strong lad second i feel.

I hope he stays injury free because i love watching him play.

by HammerofThunor Mon 06 Feb 2012, 1:35 pm

Hold the phone. Stuart Lancaster has a 100% record and has only played one game. Let's say that he stays on until after the next world cup. About 11 games played for per with an additional 3 for the world cup. So that's a total of 47 games in this period. By my calculations, if we extrapolate his current record that would give him a 100% win record. Remarkable.

by mystiroakey Mon 06 Feb 2012, 1:40 pm

great player, we need to bread more like him in england and not let them go!

he is a subtle player as well as a man mountain. That little pass which set up a try for davies was beautifull

by **rodders** Mon 06 Feb 2012, 1:42 pm

red_stag wrote:He was my man of the match and IMO the single biggest reason you won the game.

An excellent player who made light work of Tommy Bowe when defending and came in off his wing to wreak havoc on the Irish midfield in attack.

+ 1. Bowe couldn't deal with him at all. Awesome player, Wales are very lucky.

by RubyGuby Mon 06 Feb 2012, 1:42 pm

I think George hasn't warmed up yet - I would expect at least 396 caps and 263 trys in his career for Wales - Aything less and I would see it as a failure to live up to his billing thumbsup

by gelodge Mon 06 Feb 2012, 3:15 pm

I very much doubt he will still be an international wing at 34. Big wings don't last as long as small ones, the pace and footwork falls away much quicker.

He may consider a change of position at a certain age, like Rougerie moving to centre by the time he hit his 30s.

I also think averaging 10 tests a year would be very optimistic, injury, rest and rotation would suggest somewhere in the 5-8 bracket might be more realistic.

by thomh Mon 06 Feb 2012, 3:18 pm

gelodge wrote:I very much doubt he will still be an international wing at 34. Big wings don't last as long as small ones, the pace and footwork falls away much quicker.

He may consider a change of position at a certain age, like Rougerie moving to centre by the time he hit his 30s.

I also think averaging 10 tests a year would be very optimistic, injury, rest and rotation would suggest somewhere in the 5-8 bracket might be more realistic.

conversely, when their pace goes they still have their size to fall back on, unlike smaller guys.

by glamorganalun Mon 06 Feb 2012, 3:29 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:Hold the phone. Stuart Lancaster has a 100% record and has only played one game. Let's say that he stays on until after the next world cup. About 11 games played for per with an additional 3 for the world cup. So that's a total of 47 games in this period. By my calculations, if we extrapolate his current record that would give him a 100% win record. Remarkable.

There would have to be a lot of charge down tries!

by gelodge Mon 06 Feb 2012, 3:31 pm

Which is why I said he might change positions. Size isn't enough (Banahan for example), one of pace or footwork is essential for a try scoring wing. They can be effective players in other ways, like Rougerie or Shaggy, but the new young bucks scoring plenty of tries will be emerging on the scene and demanding the wing spots.

by Chunky Norwich Mon 06 Feb 2012, 3:34 pm

He'll be a 13 before he's 22

by stlowe Mon 06 Feb 2012, 3:39 pm

He'll have to up his try/match rate to be in competition with Ashton (15 in 19).

Wink

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon 06 Feb 2012, 3:39 pm

stlowe wrote:He'll have to ~~up his try/match rate~~ stay fit for the Italy game to be in competition with Ashton (15 in 19).

by Taylorman Mon 06 Feb 2012, 4:41 pm

The Lomu comprisons seem to keep coming so hes a lot to live up to. From memory Lomu ran THROUGH people as well. Many, often 5 or 6 at the same time. But mainly he ran around them, size, pace strength and incredible sense of balance making it impossible for would be tacklers.

For North Wales as a team need to keep performing at the levels they are if hes to bag records. For one they have to get their share of ball, something North cant do himself.

But if that continues to happen, the skys the limit. Brilliant runs on the weekend but perhaps a little to early to heap that much pressure on the boy.

But who knows...

by OzT Mon 06 Feb 2012, 5:00 pm

Lomu not only ran thru/over and around people, there's a few tries he's scored, main one in my head against France in the RWC, when he practically carried half the other side on his back as he waded his way thrun the other half in front of him to score a try...

by gnollbeast Mon 06 Feb 2012, 5:28 pm

Jonah Lomu is the black George North.

by HammerofThunor Mon 06 Feb 2012, 5:31 pm

You mean the ALL black George North

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Mon 06 Feb 2012, 5:32 pm

gnollbeast wrote:Jonah Lomu is the black George North.

Jonah sadly had an achilles ~~heel~~ kidney Sad

Had he been completely healthy Yikes

by nathan Mon 06 Feb 2012, 5:39 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
stlowe wrote:He'll have to ~~up his try/match rate~~ stay fit for the Italy game to be in competition with Ashton (15 in 19).

i know your only kidding, but i never got the whole "it was only italy" thing, the other teams still played italy.

by mckay1402 Mon 06 Feb 2012, 5:55 pm

I love the theory that George North is easy to tackle because he's tall. try telling Tommy Bowe that

by Taylorman Mon 06 Feb 2012, 5:57 pm

Good discussion to be had anyway. Its good having players to be excited about amongst a lot of the doom and gloom we hear a lot of the time. That welsh backline is still taking some stopping.

Good to see them carrying on from the visit here even if the result was close, at least they're able to close them out now.

by maestegmafia Mon 06 Feb 2012, 6:28 pm

The youngest player in rugby history ever to score 10 Test tries.

by gnollbeast Mon 06 Feb 2012, 6:38 pm

How on earth can Wales go from such an unprofessional, boozing, weak, shoddy, non aggressive team with pathetic forwards to the team that played yesterday.

A lot has happened in the last 10 years.

I still have nightmares about 50-10 and 54-10 from the 2002 six nations

Sad

by wales606 Mon 06 Feb 2012, 6:38 pm

maestegmafia wrote:The youngest player in rugby history ever to score 10 Test tries.

Really? Impressive

by gnollbeast Mon 06 Feb 2012, 6:39 pm

He will probably be the youngest to score 50 too.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon 06 Feb 2012, 6:48 pm

gnollbeast wrote:He will probably be the youngest to score 50 too.

Come on be realistic, I doubt he'll score more than 40 in the England match

by english warrior Tue 07 Feb 2012, 10:00 am

Peterseabiscuit- There, thats more like it, be a man and nail those colours front and centre, even if we despise who you support, (and lets face it you should feel embarressed) but at least you are being HONEST that you are a Welsh wannabee, if not a full blown Leek eater!

As for George North, does anyone know what his win to loss ratio is when playing for Wales, as given the fawning, sycophantic nature of this post, i would take it for granted that his team couldn't lose when he's playing. Wink

by maestegmafia Tue 07 Feb 2012, 10:06 am

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
gnollbeast wrote:He will probably be the youngest to score 50 too.

Come on be realistic, I doubt he'll score more than 40 in the England match

Current form he would be a safe bet at the bookies to get a try next game. Though I don't think you would get long odds on it.

by nganboy Tue 07 Feb 2012, 11:51 pm

Clearly North is a top winger but how great is he really?
He has scored 10 tries in 17 appearances

Well...

Christian Cullen was a great FB for NZ - 16 tries in first 17 test - to be fair 11 of those were against low ranked teams - Samoa, Fiji, Argentina and Scotland but still managed 3 vs Aus and 2 vs SA.

Rokocoko was a very good but not great wing for NZ who scored 25 tries in his first 20 tests. So if North scores another 15 in the next 3 games then he's good but still not a great.

by slartibartfast Wed 08 Feb 2012, 12:04 am

George North tried the Asht Splash thing, they had to tell him to stop as it caused subsidence under the West Stand.

by slartibartfast Wed 08 Feb 2012, 12:07 am

The bit that "excited" me the most was his pace for the run down the wing in the first 10mins? To be fair he did run around some before going through others, and then that offload.

What will show his class now is being able to pull out new tricks to keep defends guessing e.g. chip kicks.

Just don't want him to turn in to another jamie Roberts robot dull fest.

by blackcanelion Wed 08 Feb 2012, 12:24 am

Firstly, I like him as an attacking player. I hope he does well and goes on to be a star of the game. But isn't thi a bit over the top.

He's big, but not huge. Jonah was significantly bigger if there published stats are to be believed. There's been a number of wingers the same size or bigger.

As pointed out his strike rate isn't exceptional. It's good, but there are players out there with a similar rate or higher, he has to maintain it, which becomes more difficult as he is increasingly analysed and suffers injuries. Additionally it's not as impressive when you look at the actual matches and opposition on the day.

by Rory_Gallagher Wed 08 Feb 2012, 12:28 am

It is very much over the top, because the irish midfield are weak, and Rougerie did the exact same thing last season. What really impressed me about North was the offload he did, showing he has more than just strength and speed. If he can add that offloading game, and have as good awareness on a consistent basis, and against better opposition than D'Arcy/McFadden, then he could become one of the best wingers in the world. But don't forget that Ireland have the weakest midfield in the competition.

by maestegmafia Wed 08 Feb 2012, 12:44 am

blackcanelion wrote:Firstly, I like him as an attacking player. I hope he does well and goes on to be a star of the game. But isn't thi a bit over the top.

He's big, but not huge. Jonah was significantly bigger if there published stats are to be believed. There's been a number of wingers the same size or bigger.

As pointed out his strike rate isn't exceptional. It's good, but there are players out there with a similar rate or higher, he has to maintain it, which becomes more difficult as he is increasingly analysed and suffers injuries. Additionally it's not as impressive when you look at the actual matches and opposition on the day.

start watching him mate.

It is the skills that he displays, like the little backhand pass perfectly timed and positioned for Davies to slice through the last five Irish players then it is the carrying four boys over the line after out pacing two or three.

by blackcanelion Wed 08 Feb 2012, 1:34 am

Did you read what i said? I like the guy. He's significantly smaller than Jonah. I think it's a bit early to make a judgement. He's only scored 10 tries in 17 internationals, and many of those were against poor quality sides.

For the record
Against ranking no games tries scored
NZ 1 1 0
Australia 2 2 0
France 3 2 0
SA 4 2 2
England 5 2 2
Argentina7 1 1
Ireland 8 2 1
So no tries against NZ, Australia or France, tries against England and Argentina in warm up matches going into to world cup, a couple of tries against a understrength boks side at the millenium stadium. Add to this a few against the barbarians, Fji and Namibia. There still have to be question marks.

As I said at the start I like him as an attacking player. He's the type of the guy I go to rugby to watch. But lets not curse him with an overblown assessment early his life, as the British press does with so many players. Give him a chance to grow and flourish and achieve his potential.

by maestegmafia Wed 08 Feb 2012, 1:41 am

I concur with my original post... start watching him mate and you'll understand... wikipedia says so little compared to watching rugby

by blackcanelion Wed 08 Feb 2012, 1:49 am

Don't use Wikipedia. Seen Jonah and North play in the flesh. Possibly just have a different view to you.

by Feckless Rogue Wed 08 Feb 2012, 1:57 am

I think he's gonna have a brilliant career. Was magnificent at the weekend. He was the difference in that game. And will be in the future. But I'll just try and temper the Welsh high hopes (is that even possible?)

He's wreaked havoc on the Irish midfield, which is very weak right now. The Irish also kept kicking the ball away to the Welsh backs and standing off them to allow them to build up a head of steam. They didn't make it difficult for North at all.

He won't be allowed to wreak havoc so easily against the better teams. And the bigger his reputation gets, the more effort teams will put into analysing any potential weaknesses and concocting strategies to contain him. Sean O'Brien looked unstoppable last year. But the more well drilled sides are stopping him now for Leinster and Ireland.

So for now, I'd say he's probably the best young prospect in the home nations. But comparisons with Lomu are ridiculous for now. We tend to worship the likes of BOD/Williams/Wilkinson/North up here. But the All Blacks churn out players of that level at a far higher rate. So don't be surprised if Kiwi's aren't drooling over North with you.

by Woodstock Wed 08 Feb 2012, 6:33 am

blackcanelion wrote:Don't use Wikipedia. Seen Jonah and North play in the flesh. Possibly just have a different view to you.

Yes you have Kiwi tunnel vision and cannot accept that North is better than anything NZ has at the moment.....fact

by **Biltong** Wed 08 Feb 2012, 7:03 am

North is a very talented rugby player. he has shown glimpses of brilliance and have scored some scinitilating tries.

The stand out for me last weekend was his offload to Davies.

What needs to be remembered is he cannot perform without his team mates.

Both his tries against South Africa was being at the right place at the right time. his first try against us was an inside line recieving the ball from I think it was Hook, and running through untouched. any wing running the right line on a practcied move could score that. His second try against us was a long kick to the corner, he was in position, caught the ball and doted down.

It shows he has good feel for positional play and can play well with others. His offload shows he isn't selfish and a team man. during the world cup he showed his power and ability to run through players, even though it wasn't always against top ranked teams.

He is young and should have a long career barring injuries. 10 tries in 17 appearances isn't all that impressive, his talent he has shown promises he can do better than that.

But once again it depends on his team and the game plan. Bryan Habana scored 30 tries in his first 36 tests. There after his strike rate went to bits due to PDV's game plan and inability to adjust. He has only scored 10 tries in 38 matches under PDV.

So there is much to learn from this.

by blackcanelion Wed 08 Feb 2012, 7:06 am

Woodstock wrote:
blackcanelion wrote:Don't use Wikipedia. Seen Jonah and North play in the flesh. Possibly just have a different view to you.

Yes you have Kiwi tunnel vision and cannot accept that North is better than anything NZ has at the moment.....fact

He may end up being... Who knows. I repeat I like him. He's big, fast, has a good step, a bit of power and can offload. I'm just pointing out it's early in his career and that his statistics, whislt good, aren't unique. For example Richard Kahui is a similar hieght and wieght, and has scored 10 tries in 17 matches. I'm not going to suggest he will go on to be a legend in the game (he's still relatively young and can play centre, wing and full back). Isreal Dagg has the same strike rate.

I am one eyed and have no problem admitting it. However, I was thinking of players from other countries over the years (e.g. Lathem, Tuquiri, Sailer from OZ). Julien Malzieu for france isn't exactly small and the french scored some good tries. Rather than just Kiwis.

The tone of the original post is he is going to be a superman. He might be, but it's early days. Yes I have watched the Ireland game, yes I did see the try he scored as well as the run and off load that set up another. Good work, enjoyed them both. But niether move was unique. I suspect we will see more off this style from teams, given the impact of SBW.

by Woodstock Wed 08 Feb 2012, 7:14 am

Are you suggesting that SBW has made an impact on rugby union? Seriously? SBW used that back hand pass more than most but he certainly was not the first to do so and he was soon found out. I do not see anything that any other international team would want in regards to SBW. He'll be off to League again soon he hardly set the world of union alight. Hardly setting the boxing world alight either although Kiwis will think becoming NZ Heavyweight boxing chup tonight will set him on the road to bigger and better things in the ring.....hardly.

by blackcanelion Wed 08 Feb 2012, 7:23 am

I'm not suggesting SBW is the greatest rugby player, or that he doesn't have limitations. I'm not suggesting he invented the one handed offload, or was the first to use it. What he did do was off load one a lot more than anyone was doing. He did a lot of out of the accurate out of back of the hand offloading in contact. What this did was to high light an offensive weapon. It seems to me it's more common now, with many more players trying it. I think he happened to be the right player, at the right place at the right time. Much the same as North, only time will tell how SBW goes long term. I agree with you, I'm guessing he'll be following the money trail to Australian league, which seems to be targeting union again.

In terms of the fight. I think most people see it as money gathering excercise. The guy he's fighting lives in NZ and is apparently out of shape. he replaces a guy who I think is up on drug possession charges. I don't think anyone is under any allusions.

by Woodstock Wed 08 Feb 2012, 7:35 am

I think he was always a League player. I do not deny he set NZ Union alight and raised attendances at games slightly. Not as if the likes of Canterbury with Dan, Richie et all did not get the crowds in anyway. I think SBW attitude to League in the first place made people suspicious and I think you are right, SBW follows the $$$$ and not a loyalty to anone. Never know he may take the boxing route which if succes follows will get him bigger $$ in the USA. I see SBW in the same category as our Gavin H!! Want's to be in the limelight type person, whilst George North I see more in the Dan Carter style, quiet and unasuming but world class and admired by all.

I must admit I have not seen much back hand passing and I pretty well watch all the games I can on TV but I am not disputing it.

by slartibartfast Wed 08 Feb 2012, 7:47 am

Feckless Rogue wrote:I think he's gonna have a brilliant career. Was magnificent at the weekend. He was the difference in that game. And will be in the future. But I'll just try and temper the Welsh high hopes (is that even possible?)

He's wreaked havoc on the Irish midfield, which is very weak right now. The Irish also kept kicking the ball away to the Welsh backs and standing off them to allow them to build up a head of steam. They didn't make it difficult for North at all.

He won't be allowed to wreak havoc so easily against the better teams. And the bigger his reputation gets, the more effort teams will put into analysing any potential weaknesses and concocting strategies to contain him. Sean O'Brien looked unstoppable last year. But the more well drilled sides are stopping him now for Leinster and Ireland.

So for now, I'd say he's probably the best young prospect in the home nations. But comparisons with Lomu are ridiculous for now. We tend to worship the likes of BOD/Williams/Wilkinson/North up here. But the All Blacks churn out players of that level at a far higher rate. So don't be surprised if Kiwi's aren't drooling over North with you.

Irish kicking had nothing to do with it, all the north power plays came from set peice

Don't forget, north isn't having second season syndrome like a lot of players do. He isn't the new kid on the block he's an established team member.

You can't compare strike rates - he's been behind a poor welsh pack.

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