England release the following players ahead of trip to Rome

Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby)
Matt Banahan (Bath Rugby)
Calum Clark (Northampton Saints)
Karl Dickson (Harlequins)
Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers)
Lee Mears (Bath Rugby)
Charlie Sharples (Gloucester Rugby)
Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers)

Gives you a decent idea of the travelling squad.

http://www.therugbyblog.co.uk/england-release-flood-sharples-karl-dickson-plus-five-more

Flood is a huge surprise...! Guess he is not fit then....?

According to Sky Sports Lancaster thinks Flood needs another game back with the Tigers before being considered. Sensible option as we often see players rushed back and have reoccurring problems. Hodgson also deserves another crack and hopefully he'll shine against the Italians.

http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12504/7494498/Flood-back-with-Tigers

OK. No Sharples though, disappointing.

ChequeredJersey wrote:OK. No Sharples though, disappointing.

I'm very disappointed, but at least he's free to play in the Jeff this week instead of doing nothing in reserve again. Ah well, England's loss...

I am suprised Flood as been sent home.

Why is Sharples not bieing considerd though.

I guess Lancaster must be tougher on selection than Johnson ever was.

Flood's been brought in to train with the squad, getting up to speed. That way when he gets back after the weekend he'll fit in easier I suppose

no flood

majesticimperialman wrote:I am suprised Flood as been sent home.

Why is Sharples not bieing considerd though.

I guess Lancaster must be tougher on selection than Johnson ever was.

Sharples because he is happy with Strettle and Brown, does that make him tough?

Flood because he feels he needs a game back. Gatland was happy to take Preistland and Roberts on spec, one worked out one didnt. Hodgson did well enough, and he loves Farrell.

Not sure how that makes him tough on selection or any different to his predecessors but I guess if you want to find reasons to hate on the previous coach you can in anything.

Flood's Englands best player by far, get him on the bench - don't give him back to the club, keep an eye on him. You need to keep hm in the national environment

Unless Lanky's protecting him from the trauma of an Italian win...

Italy are going to win this one.

no flood no creativity


arh well he should be nice and ready for the bigger games to come!

we dont need him in rome

They obviously feel he will get more from time with his playing a full game than 20 minutes for England.

Besides including Flood (hed take JTH's place) would mean changes elsewhere or a lack of cover for all positions from the bench.

If Lancasters not planning wholesale changes and doesnt want to rush he back hes making the right choice.
Farrell is being given every chance to settle in. If they Saracens line cant take a few more risks and generate some kind of attack in this game though then England really do need to plan B ( or really what always was Plan A)

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:If Lancasters not planning wholesale changes and doesnt want to rush he back hes making the right choice.
Farrell is being given every chance to settle in. If they Saracens line cant take a few more risks and generate some kind of attack in this game though then England really do need to plan B ( or really what always was Plan A)

Absolutely agree, I have been kind of surprised that Lancaster had picked a Saracens 10, 11, 12, and 13. And more surprised that anyone would expect a dynamic attack from those guys. Its not what they do. Hoping for better against Italy, though..........

I think we'll see some more intent to attack from england against the italians but i feel they are likely to play as france did and try and live off italian mistakes and turnover ball. selecting the same half backs is probably the right decision as it will probably be a similar game to the scotland one.

i thought strettle played well with limited ball and see no reason why sharples should replace him at this stage. of the other players sent back to their clubs, we should defo see flood in involved in the fixtures at HQ and I would like to see attwood involved at some stage of the tournamnet. tuilagi back into training this week. lawes and wood a welcome boost towards the end of the 6 nations.

I was really hoping to see Sharples get some game time this weekend. Possibly in Ashton's place. I think he should have taken Brown's place on the bench. I like Brown as a player, but at the same time, think he is a very very limited bench option. He should start or not be in the match day 22-not versatile enough.

11. Strettle 15. Foden 14. Sharples

Bench: Ashton

Got a real nice attacking flair to it, and a stinger on the bench too.

Damn shame. But, I have faith in Lancaster

Dr Grey, agree - people expecting this England three quarters to carve-up defences and solve our ever-present midfield creativity problems are barking up the wrong tree and clearly haven't seen many Sarries games. They're pragmatic, and I rate all three players, but subtle unlockers of defences they aint!

Looking forward to seeing Flood and Tuilagi back - the former can make things happend a bit, and looks comfortable at test level, and the latter is a genuine game-breaker who any oppositin will be wary of - something that we totally lack elsewhere (other than, maybe, Foden). Barritt is a good, strong all-rounder who will provide stabililty in between them - 10. Flood, 12. Barritt, 13. Tuilagi starts to look pretty useful to me. Then Farrell should assume the bench and be given a bit of gametime at 10 whilst covering 12/13, with Hodgson dropping-out completely - harsh, but correct in the long term.

For Italy, though, it looks like it's gonna pretty much stay as-is. The one thing I think he has to do is start Morgan, though. Dowson doesn't cut it for me. He's not a true 8 at the best of times and I don't think he will ever have a physical impact on international rugby. Stick him on the bench for his versatility by all means, but I want to see if this Morgan lad can make an impact...the Italy game will be won and lost up front and we can't afford to be going backwards in the contact, as Dowson repeatedly did last weekend (and by this I mean no disrespect to a clearly hard-working professional...but he's found his level in the premiership IMO).

viewtothegym wrote:Italy are going to win this one.

You might get it right one day if you keep saying it.

Its funny reaklly because all the talk pre tournament was on Englands new start, attacking inetnt, desire to move on from the frightened turgid Brian Smith attack plans, and focu son performances ahead of results.
So immediatly England look to go back to basics and pick a side based on pragmatic simplitic rugby and a defence first policy.

The mitigation for that is that their first choice backline was ripped up by injuries.

They do need the forwards to get more agressive to utilise the potential of that fit backline, and make the most of the couple of week straining time they will have together.

The fixtures havent fallen too bad for England, getting the lucky win in Scotland sets things up nicely. Assume they win in Italy, they then mneed one win from the last 3 games ( 2 at home) for an acceptablereturn form the tournament. Itf the level of play stays as it was against Scotland they wont get that, if they improve a bit they have a strong chance of getting one of those sides on an off day.
Im feeling less negative today

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
Im feeling less negative today

It's a welcome change...

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler, not to try to bring you down from your enthusiastic high of 'only moderate negativity' () , but of those 3 teams, Ireland and Wales will definitely come at us like rabid animals, and France - although they have a little bit of a track record of 'off-days' against England - will be in front of their own fans and enormous favourites.

Add to that the fact that the Italian front row will be licking their lips at the 'fresh meat' that England are fielding 1 to 3, that there's not too much in the way of frightening power from 4-8 and it's easy to be less un-negative!!

I think our scrum will be fine against the Italians. Corbs made his first test start against the Italians last year, and he completely held his own. Cole is a seasoned and reliable test player now. Our front row is one of the areas I'm not worried about!

viewtothegym wrote:Italy are going to win this one.

Please give us your views as to why you think this?

Adam
Why do you think our front row is a problem? It's probably the only area of the side where we are selecting our definite first choices (Corbs now would be picked ahead of Sheridan even on the odd occasions AS is fit). If they don't match up the the Italians then we have a problem because that's about as good as we've got.
I'm not convinced about our 2nd row combination, but Botha showed some promise against Scotland.
The back row I think Croft and Robshaw will go OK on the flanks and I'm hopeful that Morgan will get picked and create some serious go-forward ball, which was the main thing lacking from the back row in Scotland.

I do think this could be Italy's best chance to beat England since their acceptance into the 6Ns, but think (hope) we'll scrape another win from a scrappy performance.

Flood is a loss but SL seems to want to be keeping him for the last 3 games. Fair dues to him as well. Hodgeson played very well last weekend which suprised me as i thought that he was going to be eaten up.

Italy will fancy their chances after comparing last weeks performances but it will have no bearing as i am certain that England will improve. I have England winning this but feel that there will not be too much in it.

Italy are no longer the whipping boys of the 6 nations, they're a well orgainised group of players that can mix it with the best for 50-60mins of any game.

If, thats right if they cut out the silly errors then they are more than capable of beating England, this will be a tough game.

England by 4pts

HERSH wrote:Italy are no longer the whipping boys of the 6 nations, they're a well orgainised group of players that can mix it with the best for 50-60mins of any game.

If, thats right if they cut out the silly errors then they are more than capable of beating England, this will be a tough game.

England by 4pts

Are you sure you didnt mean to type Wales?

Please give us your views as to why you think this?.

He meant

" I HOPE Italy are going to win this one"

Which given his err.... lets say 'Less Than Favourable Attitude to English Rugby' (for want of a better term) is perfectly understandable.

Sorry am i the only one disagreeing with most of you.

Why on earth rush Flood back??

The guys been out and had barely twenty mins club time....

Hodgson is a creative player aswell. He scored on Sat...give him another shot against Italy to try and create a little bit more which allows Flood more time with the Tigers. Very sensible apporach from Lancaster.....

Yeah, Hartley and Cole are, admittedly, experienced beyond their years and credit to Johnson for this. But whilst I think they're solid and I don't see them folding, it's hardly a weapon - I've rarely seen Cole put in a destructive scrummaging performance. Corbisiero I just don't really rate. The phrase people constantly use is that he 'held his own', which is/was impressive in itself for a young prop entering test rugby, but doesn't represent the menacing English front row of old. The other thing about him is that he wasn't brought into the squad/team as a specialist scrum merchant: he stood out for London Irish largely due to his prowess in the loose - physical, constantly looking for work and carrying all over the place. I feel like I could count on one hand the amount of carries I've seen him make in an England shirt - needs to do more on this front for me (I'm not saying he isn't 1st choice of those available by the way, but I feel his status here is as much down to lack of options as his stamping an authoritative claim to the shirt).

In any case, it's not so much the scrum itself where I fear we will be underpowered against Italy, but our 8's general ability to win the collisions in open play. Hopefully Morgan will start and add something on this front. Botha was physical in the loose last week (even if it wasn't the tidiest performance), as was Robshaw, but I feel that the whole 8 will need to really ramp-up the physicality and aggression against this Italian side in order to get the win.

I'd give Hodgson another shot, definitely. Flood shouldn't be rushed back (just look at Youngs' form after being rushed back into playing). Hodgson knows how to engage players' creativity, he just needs the right platform to do it. Hopefully with another week of training under their belt, the team should be able to facilitate this better. Sarries have also worked wonders on his defence.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Sorry am i the only one disagreeing with most of you.

Why on earth rush Flood back??

The guys been out and had barely twenty mins club time....

Hodgson is a creative player aswell. He scored on Sat...give him another shot against Italy to try and create a little bit more which allows Flood more time with the Tigers. Very sensible apporach from Lancaster.....

I think you are only disgareeing with yourself.

Pretty much everyone above has stated that they understand the rationale, England should be better in attack with Flood and Tuilagi back but untill they are ready continuity with the pragmatic if dull Saracens backline makes sense.
In general we assume it wasnt his first choice to play this side, but with the withdrawls and general lack of players to turn to retaining the current midfield is pretty inevitable and not without merit.
The only arguments are over Scrum half and the possibility of Sharples in the team, then what happenes for the Wales game. Many of us will probably revise our opinions based on what happens in this game.

Adam wrote:Yeah, Hartley and Cole are, admittedly, experienced beyond their years and credit to Johnson for this. But whilst I think they're solid and I don't see them folding, it's hardly a weapon - I've rarely seen Cole put in a destructive scrummaging performance. Corbisiero I just don't really rate. The phrase people constantly use is that he 'held his own', which is/was impressive in itself for a young prop entering test rugby, but doesn't represent the menacing English front row of old. The other thing about him is that he wasn't brought into the squad/team as a specialist scrum merchant: he stood out for London Irish largely due to his prowess in the loose - physical, constantly looking for work and carrying all over the place. I feel like I could count on one hand the amount of carries I've seen him make in an England shirt - needs to do more on this front for me (I'm not saying he isn't 1st choice of those available by the way, but I feel his status here is as much down to lack of options as his stamping an authoritative claim to the shirt).

See where you coming from Adam, but if you can, re-watch the game from saturday and single out Corbs. He really was seriously good. He made some fantastic carries, one in particular stands out, and he looks to be getting back to his best carrying form. He's shed a lot of weight too, and it shows in his field-presence.

Adam wrote:Yeah, Hartley and Cole are, admittedly, experienced beyond their years and credit to Johnson for this. But whilst I think they're solid and I don't see them folding, it's hardly a weapon - I've rarely seen Cole put in a destructive scrummaging performance. Corbisiero I just don't really rate. The phrase people constantly use is that he 'held his own', which is/was impressive in itself for a young prop entering test rugby, but doesn't represent the menacing English front row of old. The other thing about him is that he wasn't brought into the squad/team as a specialist scrum merchant: he stood out for London Irish largely due to his prowess in the loose - physical, constantly looking for work and carrying all over the place. I feel like I could count on one hand the amount of carries I've seen him make in an England shirt - needs to do more on this front for me (I'm not saying he isn't 1st choice of those available by the way, but I feel his status here is as much down to lack of options as his stamping an authoritative claim to the shirt).

In any case, it's not so much the scrum itself where I fear we will be underpowered against Italy, but our 8's general ability to win the collisions in open play. Hopefully Morgan will start and add something on this front. Botha was physical in the loose last week (even if it wasn't the tidiest performance), as was Robshaw, but I feel that the whole 8 will need to really ramp-up the physicality and aggression against this Italian side in order to get the win.

Did you not see the game on Sat...what stood out for me about Corbs aside from his pretty good scrum work...was the amount of times he DID get the ball...including 2 or 3 really powerful drives where he broke the gainline convincingly....taking in two or three defenders....

Lets hope he repeats it this weekend....

Bluestone..good minds and all that

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Did you not see the game on Sat...what stood out for me about Corbs aside from his pretty good scrum work...was the amount of times he DID get the ball...including 2 or 3 really powerful drives where he broke the gainline convincingly....taking in two or three defenders....

Lets hope he repeats it this weekend....

Haha, great minds!

and again!! This is getting creepy...

Woooaaaa...

Adam wrote:Yeah, Hartley and Cole are, admittedly, experienced beyond their years and credit to Johnson for this. But whilst I think they're solid and I don't see them folding, it's hardly a weapon - I've rarely seen Cole put in a destructive scrummaging performance. Corbisiero I just don't really rate. The phrase people constantly use is that he 'held his own', which is/was impressive in itself for a young prop entering test rugby, but doesn't represent the menacing English front row of old. The other thing about him is that he wasn't brought into the squad/team as a specialist scrum merchant: he stood out for London Irish largely due to his prowess in the loose - physical, constantly looking for work and carrying all over the place. I feel like I could count on one hand the amount of carries I've seen him make in an England shirt - needs to do more on this front for me (I'm not saying he isn't 1st choice of those available by the way, but I feel his status here is as much down to lack of options as his stamping an authoritative claim to the shirt).

In any case, it's not so much the scrum itself where I fear we will be underpowered against Italy, but our 8's general ability to win the collisions in open play. Hopefully Morgan will start and add something on this front. Botha was physical in the loose last week (even if it wasn't the tidiest performance), as was Robshaw, but I feel that the whole 8 will need to really ramp-up the physicality and aggression against this Italian side in order to get the win.

Adam,

The scrum more than held its own against Scotland, they won that battle. Which is pretty impressive given that Scotland were set up a heavy scrum team and have a vast amount of experience between their Lions packed front row and a couple of beefy lumps in the second row.
Sure they didnt ever march scotland down the field but its very rare you ever see sides doing that at this level now. Frankly since Sheridan started getting injured and Stevens had his issues England havent had a particulalry good scrum. They didnt give penalties away there ( just one from each side I think?), which is a very refreshing change. This may in part have been down to a bit of conservatism ( also lack of funky back row moves) but that understandable with a new side looking to keep things simple and get the basics right..which they did.
The predictions were they would get honked on, they didnt. Italy are a similar prospect to Scotland, but theres little reason to suspect that England will get mullered by their scrum if they could get the upper hand over Scotland. Corbs and Cole did a more than adequate job, and if they couldnt its not like England have a bunch of superhuman proven world class props sat in the Saxons. Stevens was a liability in the WC, Marler is a raw kid who can run really hard into brick walls.
Yeah Corbs didnt carry the ball much but when exactly did England have more than one phase of posession for him to pick and go with? Theres very few players with the number of carrys you would expect from a normal game on their stat sheet form that one. Its like slateing Ashton for not scoring a hat trick. He did put in a lot of tackles for a prop, and used his mobility to be in place to do that.

Most people seem to be in agreement about the lack of agressive backrow ball carrying, and want to see the fat kid get a go. Theres been indications all along from England that hes a player they want to see. If England make just one change Id expect it to be that.

The fat kid!!



Do you mean Morgan?

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

They didnt give penalties away there ( just one from each side I think?), which is a very refreshing change.

I think the one penalty England scrum gave away was Hartley popping up. But this happened on a scrum when England a really strong push on, and had all the forward momentum...I remember Moore saying it was a harsh penalty because it didn't affect Scotland's ability to push back since they were already moving back...

By the letter of the law the Ref was correct, but it was Scotland going backwards and it was Scotland under pressure, plus both Hookers popped up at pretty much the same time.

I've got a shocking admission to make: I saw a little over half of the game on Sat due to a prior commitment with the old ball and chain (please don't rip it too much - I feel imasculated as it is ).

...So I stand corrected - must have missed some of the moments where Corbs made his presence felt in the loose. But you must admit that - at least prior to that game - he hasn't brought his carrying prowess to bear in international rugby as he does for Irish. Hopefully he's settling in and we'll see more of this from him - as I said, he's clearly first choice of the options available, but I just haven't seen him play his best stuff for England.

Adam,

I dont think he exactly ran Scotland ragged. Noone in the Englnd side did, and that is a worry. Hartley has been a big dissapointment for me over the last year in that regard, he seem s to have lost his drive.

Everyone does need to step up their game with the ball, I certainly wouldnt disagree with you there.

But you must admit that - at least prior to that game - he hasn't brought his carrying prowess to bear in international rugby as he does for Irish

Possibly not...but then he's still a novice and its a huge jump to International Level.

Maybe Lancaster has asked him for a bit more...and his growing experience is helping. More games like Sat and i think people will take note.

Adam, we've all been there! Thank god for the wonders of modern technology!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01brdf0/Six_Nations_Rugby_2012_Scotland_v_England/

If Lancaster thinks flood needs more than one outing under his belt before calling him up, will he feel the same why about Tuilagi next week? I guess we (English) all hope to see both back before we play Wales. Is it a good idea to change both at once next week?