Should the Six Nations move to the Spring/Summer?

On the back of the France Vs Ireland game being cancelled due to a frozen pitch some friends and I were discussing moving the tournament. This is not a knee jerk reaction but an idea that I had after watching the Scotland Vs England and Italy Vs England matches.

It is just not an idea based on frozen pitches but also the quality on offer. As we know playing rugby on a wet day can be hard, but playing on a cold bitter day stops running rugby with good skills. It is clear as day that the skills and rugby have been greatly effected by the weather.

The biggest advantage of moving the Six Nations closer to the summer is the Summer tours down to the Southern Hemisphere. Down under the Tri-Nations/Rugby Championship is played between July and September. On the back of this they then come up and hammer all the Home Nations. Surly if the Six Nations was moved to April-May then as international teams we could then go down on the back of the championship and beat some Southern Hemisphere teams on a more regular bases.

Now this idea will not effect the length of the season as it is literally just picking up the Six Nations and moving it. So it's almost like a club season, with a break for the Autumn Internationals, then a International season and then a lovely long break for all they boys.

So let us debate. Is this a good idea?

Yes. Definitely. There is no logical reason to keep it the way it is. Just tradition. It benefits neither the club game or the 6 Nations itself to have it lumped in the middle of the season, at a time of year least conductive to running rugby.

It should be at the end of the season. It should be the climax of the season, and should be played when the sun is shining and the fastest, most attacking rugby of the year is on show.

I think so yes, it would allow the rugby to be played in consistent blocks building up to international and solve a lot of issues with player release etc. It would make January longer with no six nations to look forward to but for the game it would be better.

Sept - Jan, Domestic competition, Aviva, Rabo, Top 14 (there would still be a Nov internationl series).
Feb -Mar, Heineken cup/Challenge cup.
Apr - May, Six Nations/ LV/ domestic cup competition.
June ,International tours.

July- August, off season.

Is there a need to move it? How often have games been postponed in the past? Not often, this was quite pretty freakish weather for this time of the year.

Yesterday could have been easily avoided if they had moved the game to a lunchtime kick off like it was in Italy. They had known for several days that there was freakishly cold weather forecast but kept an evening kick off to suit TV.

Simple. Make France and Italy play in stadiums with pitches that have undersoil heating. It can't be that effing hard can it

gowales wrote:It can't be that effing hard can it

Oh it was.... It was that effing hard.

a few hundred million on a stadium and they couldn't spend a few hundred thousand on undersoil heating, ruined my saturday night i sat and watched that country and western stuff i was that bored

in answer to the post NO-rugby has always been,and should still be 3pm on a Saturday in the winter.

There was a time real-world conditions were a significant aspect of game preparation and, in truth, part of the total package that was rugby, and the enjoyment of it. I remember O'Driscoll talking after a big game in New Zealand and he was absolutely frozen stiff as the cold Anarctic air brought polar conditions to the game. But dramatic conditions have always added to the enjoyment of a sport designed for outdoors, and mostly still played that way.

Now it seems some of us feel like we'd like to make it into an all-indoor/under-roof game; no climate, no weather conditions affecting the beauty of the game itself.

Well - yeah, it's a choice, it's an opinion. But my opinion is rugby is an outdoor game and weather is part of the deal. Summer rugby/indoor/no elements rugby sounds to me like sterile rugby, in a sense dead rugby.

The elements add drama to games. The past, both in club and International memory, is always lulled over and remembered so fondly. I'd suggest a lot of those memories are clearer because of the elements endured by both spectators and players. The muck, the steam, the ice cold, the teeming rain; the mistakes brought on by them and the disciplin and ability to overcome them.

Not every great game of rugby happens at the pleasant 22 degrees centigade in windless, sunny conditions. In short, do we think the French/Irish game that was abandoned could never have been a classic? I think a lot of us are irritated by the delay because we felt it had all the potential to be one.

There is probably no need to move the Six Nations because of bad weather. I think that was the first Six Nations game to be called off since 1985.

I was surprised that the Stade de France didn't have undersoil heating though. As allyt2k stated most modern stadiums that size have undersoil heating. I did hear somewhere though that the reason the Stade de France doesn't is something to do with local gas works/ pipes.

That said I think the rugby season needs to be modernized. I find it rather ridiculous that in a professional era that the Premiership has games the same weekend as the internationals.

I won't go into this more on here as I have a few articles/ threads planned on the subject coming sometime soon.

What i did not understand about the France v Ireland game is why it was sceduled to be played at 8 oclock last night.

Surely it would of made better sence to have played it earlyer in the day?

But i do agree with you about moving the 6ns to april may time, all the fans that made their way over there and be told at the last minute that game is cancelled. Not good for them, will they get their money back, not only for the match but the expence of getting over there in the first place?

majesticimperialman wrote:But i do agree with you about moving the 6ns to april may time, all the fans that made their way over there and be told at the last minute that game is cancelled. Not good for them, will they get their money back, not only for the match but the expence of getting over there in the first place?

You can't really say the crowds didn't know it was a risk. All week we kept getting the double story - it's scheduled but nobody can guarantee it'll be played. That's all anyone got, and those travelling went with that warning ringing in their ears.

They might have chosen to ignore the warning, they might have chosen to believe the confident words coming from the Stade people themselves (even though they were never going to be the deciders) but the truth is that certainly here in Ireland, we all knew the risks of it not going ahead if a late pitch inspection proved it was dangerous.

Even when Pearson gave his first ok when the covers came off, the people who made the journey were already there so they had rolled the dice themselves. It's a pity that it happened but this was flagged well in advance that it was a possible, almost probable, no-game. The ground was freezing even as the French ended their game against Italy last week, and only plastic covered it for the frozen week.

NO NO NO!

The 6N is a fans tournament and having it in Feb/March is perfect. Later in the year runs into school holidays and therefore wouldn't be as easy to justify going to games instead of a family holiday. Even for those with no families they will be competing for hotel rooms with holiday makers and the prices will be considerably higher. The attraction is to sit through the cold and then retire to a warm hostelry to thaw out - that's rugby!

From a playing perspective what could be better than for a champion to have proved themselves in the heavy grounds of winter and the fast grounds of spring?

Also coming at the height of the season should have the players in the peak of form and leave a respectable amount of time before the domestic competitions reach their climax.

It ain't broke so doesn't need fixing.

There good points Aukster.

I think a few are concentrating on only half of the argument. What about a better run of form before the summer internationals? It's what all the Southern Hemisphere do to us so why should we not do it for them?

The truth about the British summer is that it rains, a lot. But we won't have the weather effecting the core skills so badly! This idea is not based on one called of game but the terrible displays of rugby by nations that should be much better!
I open to a switch, even more so if there is a official international window, when the whole club season is done and the tier two nations can get hold of their players, so yesterday result of Spain beating Georgia wouldn't happen.

Surly this will be a benefit to the rugby, the teams and converting more people to rugby??

What do people think about stretching the Six Nations out throughout the season?

How about playing a game in October, November, February, March and April?

Then add other international fixtures in late August, September then 'tour' internationals in late May and June?

I would also like to see top tier nations play the lower nations like Georgia, Romania, Canada, Russia, USA, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa and Japan more often instead of playing the likes of Wales, Ireland, Argentina, Australia two or three times a year.

The IRB could do with having someone like Sepp Blatter in charge (and that's saying something).

SecretFly wrote:There was a time real-world conditions were a significant aspect of game preparation and, in truth, part of the total package that was rugby, and the enjoyment of it. I remember O'Driscoll talking after a big game in New Zealand and he was absolutely frozen stiff as the cold Anarctic air brought polar conditions to the game. But dramatic conditions have always added to the enjoyment of a sport designed for outdoors, and mostly still played that way.

Now it seems some of us feel like we'd like to make it into an all-indoor/under-roof game; no climate, no weather conditions affecting the beauty of the game itself.

Well - yeah, it's a choice, it's an opinion. But my opinion is rugby is an outdoor game and weather is part of the deal. Summer rugby/indoor/no elements rugby sounds to me like sterile rugby, in a sense dead rugby.

The elements add drama to games. The past, both in club and International memory, is always lulled over and remembered so fondly. I'd suggest a lot of those memories are clearer because of the elements endured by both spectators and players. The muck, the steam, the ice cold, the teeming rain; the mistakes brought on by them and the disciplin and ability to overcome them.

Not every great game of rugby happens at the pleasant 22 degrees centigade in windless, sunny conditions. In short, do we think the French/Irish game that was abandoned could never have been a classic? I think a lot of us are irritated by the delay because we felt it had all the potential to be one.

I don't think anything needs to be added to that. So I shouldn't really be bothering to write this.

Wont work as you are efffectively squeezing the club game into 7 months - say 31 weeks. 5 months off for non Internationals is crazy.

the French play 26 League games, potentially 9 HC games plus 2 play off games

That is 37 games - doesn't fit

I work for a rugby tour operator and we took 180 fans from Ireland over to Paris for the weekend.

Paris was bitterly cold with temperatures dropping at night to -10 degrees but nobody really minded that.

The overall feeling was not anger at Pearson but rather at the French who:

a) Had a stadium of this class without undersoil heating
b) Refused to admit earlier in the week that it would be unplayable when they knew condition of pitch and weather forecast
c) Only announced in the stadium at 21.20 that the game would not be going ahead

There was a big difference between Rome and Paris pitch conditions - one the soil itself was frozen, the other simply had snow on the ground. Overall I don't think Six Nations needs changing. However in a professional sport all unions at this level should all be well equipped to deal with a drop in temperature or excess rainfall.

Yes - idea has merit. it lets us structure the season to support the international squads and build towards RWC. I've always felt that the timing of RWC doesn't lend itself to the northern hemisphere sides.

red_stag wrote:
a) Had a stadium of this class without undersoil heating

Read somewhere that the stadium was built near disused gas works, or something along those lines, hence it couldn't be fitted with underground heating. Not sure if thats true or not.

red_stag wrote:The overall feeling was not anger at Pearson but rather at the French who:

a) Had a stadium of this class without undersoil heating

I think the problem with that one was mentioned a few days ago. There are supposedly pipes carrying methane gas from toxic ground running directly under the stadium/pitch. I think the idea is that it would need major engineering and rebuilding to ensure the undersoil heating and the dangerous methane could co-exist. That is to say, twas the expense that killed the undersoil heating.

Rodders it is true from what I understand. However, just saying that was a big criticism of many people on tour towards the FFR.

on the other hand, that could be just an elaborate (and they do do elaborate, the French!) methane gas lie.

If they cant have undersoil heating why cant they ave oversoil heating?

I think Arsenal at their Emirates stadium have large heaters which are basically rows of large lightbulbs that double up to help the grass grow and heat the ground

Since Aironi knew earlier in the week to cancel their game why didnt the French at least have the foresight to bring something in thats was better than the tumbledryers they used on Saturday night

geoff998rugby wrote:5 months off for non Internationals is crazy.

What do the Aussie non-international Super 15 players do when the Super 15 isn't on? Do they play for clubs?

It would make sense to have a global season.

marty2086 wrote:If they cant have undersoil heating why cant they ave oversoil heating?

I think Arsenal at their Emirates stadium have large heaters which are basically rows of large lightbulbs that double up to help the grass grow and heat the ground

Since Aironi knew earlier in the week to cancel their game why didnt the French at least have the foresight to bring something in thats was better than the tumbledryers they used on Saturday night

Again..would they have helped? They might have allowed the ground to be playable for the first 20 minutes. But the moment they are removed - [big operation I'd assume and would therefore take time from beginning the process of removal to the end of the process] - in that time and in the time devoted to the game itself, the ground at those low air temperatures would quickly begin to refreeze. After halftime, and that would be the latest, the ground would be dangerously hard again.

I think the major problem was that the authorities didn't want to admit the inevitable earlier in the week. For whatever reasons, and it might have been pressure from the French Union, the groundsmen kept saying things would be fine when in their heart of hearts they probably knew things wouldn't be. Business interests kept the prospect of the game going ahead alive - not concern for travelling fans or player safety.

the biggest concern is off course the off year- the tri nations(esp NZ) hate the year they cant play the 3nations(to be 4nations) to its fullness, they run a loss on it!

money rules, and no i cant see it happening because of that.

the quality would be better thats a given. however they wont just loose a year- they will then also be competting with viewers of other sports that generalling have tournies though the summer- like the euro or world cup footy tournies

Secretfly, I suspect money was the issue.

The FFR had official hospitality packages on in Stade de France attracting big bucks from companies. Now they got the cash from that and likely to do the same again.

There was no thought of travelling fans and player safety was IMO an afterthought as you say. The attitude of them was basically "let the ref worry about it".

Is the game going ahead in march officially?

Flynnio, not officially announced.

Its now looking likely to be Saturday, March 3rd 2012 at 18.00 French Time.

France are getting a new stadium and Italy are redeveloping the Flaminio so it's not a long term issue

Feckless Rogue wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:5 months off for non Internationals is crazy.

What do the Aussie non-international Super 15 players do when the Super 15 isn't on? Do they play for clubs?

They would play in their domestic seasons Currie Cup and the like but as I said it wont work anyway because the domestic seasons cannot be completed by the end of March which is what is being proposed.

The domestic leagues have to play during the 6N - there is no way they will, or should, agree for the most important matches to overlap with the 6N.

Just kick off earlier and there is not a problem. This game would have been played if kickoff had been at 2pm