Controversial Bouts: Joe Louis v Buddy Baer
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Controversial Bouts: Joe Louis v Buddy Baer
On May 23rd 1941, Joe Louis would defend his heavyweight title against Buddy Baer - brother of the more famous Max Baer - in Washington D.C. Despite being a good all action contest, the fight became more famous for its controversial ending than what happened in the ring (70 years later Amir Khan take note!). At this time in heavyweight history the "bum of the month" club was in full swing and this defence would represent Louis' fifth of the year in as many months. Despite standing an impressive 6'6 feet 240 lbs with an ex world champion brother and a decent record on paper, few experts believed Buddy Baer would trouble Louis. The fight also had some historical significance attached to it as it was to be the first time a black judge (John Trigg) was ever appointed to score a world title fight. This was in the days segregated seating was still in effect and Washington contained a large minority population.
The fight itself began in explosive fashion. Late into the first round the massive underdog Baer caught Louis with a big left hook that sent the champion flying through the ropes and almost into the press row. Despite the setback Louis did not appeared to be too badly shaken and over the next four rounds dished out a sustained assault on Baer who was beggining to wilt. However in the fifth round Baer unleashed another big hook which cut Louis open and forced him to clinch. This was the first time Louis had ever been cut.
The noise levels from the near 25,000 crowd began to rise as the bout began to heat up. However the next round was to be the last in the contest. Loius, motivated by the sight of his own blood picked up the pace and Baer began to crumble under the pressure. He was floored by a hard right but beat the count at five seconds. Shortly after he was knocked down again. This time he arguably should have been counted out. The timekeeper reached the count of ten but the due to the noise in the stadium the referee only heard as far as a nine count. By the time he had heard the ten from the timekeeper Baer had made it to his feet. At this point the noise in the stadium, created by the all action contest had made hearing the bell between rounds difficult. The bell had been situated under the ringside table which didnt help and as a result when the bell sounded to end the sixth round it wasnt heard by the fighters or the referee in charge (Arthur Donovan). This proved significant as several seconds after the bell had sounded, Louis sent Baer down for a third time before the referee was made aware the round was over.
Baer, visibly shaken had managed to make it back to his stool but his manager Ancil Hoffman who was in his corner spent most of the intervening minute berating the referee for Louis' infraction. When the bell sounded for the seventh round Hoffman and Baers trainer Ray Arcel refused to let Baer come out for the seventh. As as a result, the referee disqualified Baer and Louis retained his championship. Under Washington commission rules in those days the referees decision was final and could not be overturned. So Baer and his teams protests were in vain.
It must be said that while nearly everyone agrees the punch landed by Louis was delivered late, it was almost certainly unintentional and occured due to both fighters and the referees inability to hear the bell above the din of the crowd. The referee claimed the punch landed "on the bell" but this was more or less shown to be incorrect as ringside observers including the timekeeper and judges indicate it came at least 3/4 seconds after the bell was sounded. And in any case it was fairly certain the referee could not hear the bell as he had to be told that the bell had sounded. Theres no way of knowing for sure how much Baer had recovered in the interval, nor what his chances of going on to win were but given the beating he took in the sixth round it would seem highly unlikely Baer could have survived another round with the champion much less go on to score an upset.
Nonetheless, media were split on what should have occured. Some maintained the late blow should have seen Louis and not Baer disqualified. Others seem to acknowledge that while the blow was late, it was both understandable in the circumstances and at worst sufficient only to lose Louis the round. Few could really argue the better fighter had not won regardless of the finale (though some did). Its worth noting that while Louis would become the first black heavyweight champion that was really accepted by all races in the U.S, at this time he was not neccessarily regarded in this way and it was really only after his efforts during WW2 that he became universally embraced.
In the aftermath, Baer and his team launched an appeal to the Washington commission to have Baer installed as champion but without success. Indeed it seems unlikely that Baers manager Hoffman genuinely believed this should be the case or that Baer would have beaten Louis. But rather it was calculacted tactics designed to cause such a stir with fans and the media that the bare minimum would see his man get a profitable rematch. By cleverly deflecting attention away from what actually happened in the round, and focusing on the controversy Hoffman was probably laying a platform for a well publicised rematch. People may well argue that a more recent controversial bout held in Washington saw Amir Khan and his team employ similar tactics 70 years later. To this in end Hoffman was successfull and Baer received a rematch less than a year later. This time he was floored 3 times and didnt make it out of the first round. America would enter WW2 shortly after and both Buddy and his brother Max would enlist and never fight again. Although like his brother Max he would enjoy a career in film upon the conclusion of the war. Louis would defend his title one more time before joining the war effort himself - used largely as a propaganda tool by the U.S. After the war would find himself at the height of his popularity and appeal, if not quite the same fighter.
One of the more controversial and interesting ending to a heavyweight title fight out there and one which split opinion on what should be done at the time. I think what ended up happening was probably the fairest outcome in the circumstances, although it would have been interesting to see what would have occured had the referee realised the final punch had occured after the bell. Would he have potentially disqualified Louis? Would he have simply deducted Louis the round? Would Baer have tried to exploit it and refused to come out for the 7th? Would he have even been in condition to?
The fight itself began in explosive fashion. Late into the first round the massive underdog Baer caught Louis with a big left hook that sent the champion flying through the ropes and almost into the press row. Despite the setback Louis did not appeared to be too badly shaken and over the next four rounds dished out a sustained assault on Baer who was beggining to wilt. However in the fifth round Baer unleashed another big hook which cut Louis open and forced him to clinch. This was the first time Louis had ever been cut.
The noise levels from the near 25,000 crowd began to rise as the bout began to heat up. However the next round was to be the last in the contest. Loius, motivated by the sight of his own blood picked up the pace and Baer began to crumble under the pressure. He was floored by a hard right but beat the count at five seconds. Shortly after he was knocked down again. This time he arguably should have been counted out. The timekeeper reached the count of ten but the due to the noise in the stadium the referee only heard as far as a nine count. By the time he had heard the ten from the timekeeper Baer had made it to his feet. At this point the noise in the stadium, created by the all action contest had made hearing the bell between rounds difficult. The bell had been situated under the ringside table which didnt help and as a result when the bell sounded to end the sixth round it wasnt heard by the fighters or the referee in charge (Arthur Donovan). This proved significant as several seconds after the bell had sounded, Louis sent Baer down for a third time before the referee was made aware the round was over.
Baer, visibly shaken had managed to make it back to his stool but his manager Ancil Hoffman who was in his corner spent most of the intervening minute berating the referee for Louis' infraction. When the bell sounded for the seventh round Hoffman and Baers trainer Ray Arcel refused to let Baer come out for the seventh. As as a result, the referee disqualified Baer and Louis retained his championship. Under Washington commission rules in those days the referees decision was final and could not be overturned. So Baer and his teams protests were in vain.
It must be said that while nearly everyone agrees the punch landed by Louis was delivered late, it was almost certainly unintentional and occured due to both fighters and the referees inability to hear the bell above the din of the crowd. The referee claimed the punch landed "on the bell" but this was more or less shown to be incorrect as ringside observers including the timekeeper and judges indicate it came at least 3/4 seconds after the bell was sounded. And in any case it was fairly certain the referee could not hear the bell as he had to be told that the bell had sounded. Theres no way of knowing for sure how much Baer had recovered in the interval, nor what his chances of going on to win were but given the beating he took in the sixth round it would seem highly unlikely Baer could have survived another round with the champion much less go on to score an upset.
Nonetheless, media were split on what should have occured. Some maintained the late blow should have seen Louis and not Baer disqualified. Others seem to acknowledge that while the blow was late, it was both understandable in the circumstances and at worst sufficient only to lose Louis the round. Few could really argue the better fighter had not won regardless of the finale (though some did). Its worth noting that while Louis would become the first black heavyweight champion that was really accepted by all races in the U.S, at this time he was not neccessarily regarded in this way and it was really only after his efforts during WW2 that he became universally embraced.
In the aftermath, Baer and his team launched an appeal to the Washington commission to have Baer installed as champion but without success. Indeed it seems unlikely that Baers manager Hoffman genuinely believed this should be the case or that Baer would have beaten Louis. But rather it was calculacted tactics designed to cause such a stir with fans and the media that the bare minimum would see his man get a profitable rematch. By cleverly deflecting attention away from what actually happened in the round, and focusing on the controversy Hoffman was probably laying a platform for a well publicised rematch. People may well argue that a more recent controversial bout held in Washington saw Amir Khan and his team employ similar tactics 70 years later. To this in end Hoffman was successfull and Baer received a rematch less than a year later. This time he was floored 3 times and didnt make it out of the first round. America would enter WW2 shortly after and both Buddy and his brother Max would enlist and never fight again. Although like his brother Max he would enjoy a career in film upon the conclusion of the war. Louis would defend his title one more time before joining the war effort himself - used largely as a propaganda tool by the U.S. After the war would find himself at the height of his popularity and appeal, if not quite the same fighter.
One of the more controversial and interesting ending to a heavyweight title fight out there and one which split opinion on what should be done at the time. I think what ended up happening was probably the fairest outcome in the circumstances, although it would have been interesting to see what would have occured had the referee realised the final punch had occured after the bell. Would he have potentially disqualified Louis? Would he have simply deducted Louis the round? Would Baer have tried to exploit it and refused to come out for the 7th? Would he have even been in condition to?
manos de piedra- Posts : 5274
Join date : 2011-02-21
Re: Controversial Bouts: Joe Louis v Buddy Baer
Again Manos, cracking article, in instances like this whilst it not be the most scientific of methods I think the ref and fans have to measure the actions against the fighter who carried them out and in such an instance I would be tempted to ask was the fighter involved the kind who would exploit confusion such as this to his own ends and for me whatever you think of Louis you would have to concede he was undoubtedly a fair and clean fighter and so you have to consider this as a genuine mistake.
Given this for me had the ref heard the bell I personally think the best course of action would have been to allow Baer a little more recovery time between rounds, as one would for an accidental low blow, this way you allow Baer adequate time to recover and don't penalise a guy for a legitimate and honest mistake. My view is either way Baer does not come out, think he had seen his moment pass and saw the way the fight was progressing and was going to end, as one thing everyone knows is once Louis had a guy going he rarely if ever let them off the hook.
Given this for me had the ref heard the bell I personally think the best course of action would have been to allow Baer a little more recovery time between rounds, as one would for an accidental low blow, this way you allow Baer adequate time to recover and don't penalise a guy for a legitimate and honest mistake. My view is either way Baer does not come out, think he had seen his moment pass and saw the way the fight was progressing and was going to end, as one thing everyone knows is once Louis had a guy going he rarely if ever let them off the hook.
Rowley- Admin
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Re: Controversial Bouts: Joe Louis v Buddy Baer
rowley wrote:Again Manos, cracking article, in instances like this whilst it not be the most scientific of methods I think the ref and fans have to measure the actions against the fighter who carried them out and in such an instance I would be tempted to ask was the fighter involved the kind who would exploit confusion such as this to his own ends and for me whatever you think of Louis you would have to concede he was undoubtedly a fair and clean fighter and so you have to consider this as a genuine mistake.
Given this for me had the ref heard the bell I personally think the best course of action would have been to allow Baer a little more recovery time between rounds, as one would for an accidental low blow, this way you allow Baer adequate time to recover and don't penalise a guy for a legitimate and honest mistake. My view is either way Baer does not come out, think he had seen his moment pass and saw the way the fight was progressing and was going to end, as one thing everyone knows is once Louis had a guy going he rarely if ever let them off the hook.
I would tend to agree in this particular instance. Given the ref and Baer both didnt hear the bell either it seems highly improbably Louis did and as such I think any punishment would be unjustified. Even deducting the round off him would be severe given how one sided it was. Had the ref heard the bell it would have been more complicated and I could only guess the outcome. It reminds me of a Bowe fight there in the early 1990s against an opponent whos name escapes me at the moment but all hell broke loose at the end when Bowe hit him after the bell. Bowe was well on his way to winning the fight and had the guy in all sorts of trouble but from what my memory serves it was clearly Bowe who landed the first late blow and his opponent retaliated with a few kicks. The ref ended up disqualifiying the opponent which despite probably not making much difference to the outcome may not neccessarily have been fair. One could look at the Buchanan/Duran fight aswell where Duran clearly strikes him low. I think the fact that Duran was coasting to a win made the call to TKO Buchanan easier but strictly speaking Duran infringed. Were the roles reversed the ref might have disqualified Buchanan had Duran been unable to continue.
manos de piedra- Posts : 5274
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Re: Controversial Bouts: Joe Louis v Buddy Baer
Excellent article, manos, and I, too, believe that justice was done in the end, and particularly so given that Baer received his rematch.
Louis v Baer I is one of my favourite heavyweight title contests because Louis gives us all a masterclass in how to beat a huge man with a significant reach advantage. It's all there; slipping and countering, blocking and countering, slipping outside the incoming jab and sending devastating right hand counters over the top, and masterful timing and judgement of distances enabling Joe to beat Baer to the jab. Fair to say that Baer might have kept his distance a little better but, even so, Louis handily outboxed him in every department.
Fabulous performance by Louis. David Haye might do well to study that fight.
Louis v Baer I is one of my favourite heavyweight title contests because Louis gives us all a masterclass in how to beat a huge man with a significant reach advantage. It's all there; slipping and countering, blocking and countering, slipping outside the incoming jab and sending devastating right hand counters over the top, and masterful timing and judgement of distances enabling Joe to beat Baer to the jab. Fair to say that Baer might have kept his distance a little better but, even so, Louis handily outboxed him in every department.
Fabulous performance by Louis. David Haye might do well to study that fight.
HumanWindmill- VIP
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Re: Controversial Bouts: Joe Louis v Buddy Baer
One of the disappointing things about the second Baer fight was that Louis donated most if not all of his purse to the U.S military for the war effort.
Years later when Louis was struggling financially and forced to fight on past his intended retirement the U.S government still went after him for taxes on all earnings which he had donated to the miltary and refused to reduce his tax bill.
Years later when Louis was struggling financially and forced to fight on past his intended retirement the U.S government still went after him for taxes on all earnings which he had donated to the miltary and refused to reduce his tax bill.
manos de piedra- Posts : 5274
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Re: Controversial Bouts: Joe Louis v Buddy Baer
Amazing fight, skills and heart in abudance. Defintely a lesson there for Haye on how to fight bigger men - though Im not sure whether he posseses enough of either.
Baer too fought his heart out, made my lunch time watching that!
Baer too fought his heart out, made my lunch time watching that!
jammin- Posts : 169
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Re: Controversial Bouts: Joe Louis v Buddy Baer
Top article again, Manos - nothing that can really be added by me, apart from me saying that I'm pretty much in agreement that the best solution would have been to allow Baer a bit more time to recover in light of the confusion at the end of the sixth. Disqualification for Louis would have been incredibly harsh, I reckon.
Reading this article, I'm reminded of the Foreman-Roman fight; can certainly make a claim that 'Big George' should have been chucked out of that one after the blatant and fully intentional blow he landed on Roman when he was already on the canvas. Odd that, much like Louis-B. Baer I, the controversy tends to be forgotten or swept under the rug on that one.
My compliments for the article, again.
Reading this article, I'm reminded of the Foreman-Roman fight; can certainly make a claim that 'Big George' should have been chucked out of that one after the blatant and fully intentional blow he landed on Roman when he was already on the canvas. Odd that, much like Louis-B. Baer I, the controversy tends to be forgotten or swept under the rug on that one.
My compliments for the article, again.
88Chris05- Moderator
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Re: Controversial Bouts: Joe Louis v Buddy Baer
It is an interesting point Chris how perceptions of fouls can change if they are commited by the guy who looked likely to win the fight, the aforementioned Duran Buchanan low blow is a classic case in point, whenever this is raised the normal response is "wouldn't make any difference, duran was winning - would have won anyway" Almost certainly true but is interesting (at least to me) how this is seen to someway lessen the offence.
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Re: Controversial Bouts: Joe Louis v Buddy Baer
rowley wrote:It is an interesting point Chris how perceptions of fouls can change if they are commited by the guy who looked likely to win the fight, the aforementioned Duran Buchanan low blow is a classic case in point, whenever this is raised the normal response is "wouldn't make any difference, duran was winning - would have won anyway" Almost certainly true but is interesting (at least to me) how this is seen to someway lessen the offence.
I agree. It tends to get forgotten about because of the perception that the right man won despite it being a clear foul in my view. The ref claimed in that one that the blow was on the belt line but it was both after the bell and also low. At a minimun you would think Buchanan should have been afforded some generous recovery time and I can certainly see a case for Duran being dducted points if not outright disqualified, as unsatisfying as that may have been.
manos de piedra- Posts : 5274
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Re: Controversial Bouts: Joe Louis v Buddy Baer
Is there good footage of this (and the rematch) available?
TopHat24/7- Posts : 17008
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Re: Controversial Bouts: Joe Louis v Buddy Baer
First of all thanks Manos enjoyed the article.
Will echo Windys comments in this is one of the finest displays I've seen in any recorded footage era.
Top hat footage is Available in great quality on You Tube, of Louis v Baer 2. However I don't know how to post it like the fellas do with spoiler etc when they upload them onto the site, it's something I'd be keen on learning, if you get to see it mate, I think it will reaffirm Louis as the worlds greatest puncher,
The jab makes Baer crumble, each hook makes his body shake.Joes footwork is excellent, it's sheer bliss.
Will echo Windys comments in this is one of the finest displays I've seen in any recorded footage era.
Top hat footage is Available in great quality on You Tube, of Louis v Baer 2. However I don't know how to post it like the fellas do with spoiler etc when they upload them onto the site, it's something I'd be keen on learning, if you get to see it mate, I think it will reaffirm Louis as the worlds greatest puncher,
The jab makes Baer crumble, each hook makes his body shake.Joes footwork is excellent, it's sheer bliss.
tcribb- Posts : 337
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Re: Controversial Bouts: Joe Louis v Buddy Baer
thanks tcribb, will get right on it.
TopHat24/7- Posts : 17008
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